The Quandary of Tamil Brahmin Bride Shortages!

[praveen]

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As more than 40,000 young Tamil Brahmin men are finding it difficult to find brides within the state, the Tamil Nadu based association for Brahmins has launched a special drive to look for suitable matches belonging to the same community in Uttar Pradesh and Bihar.

While I have no comments over the association's activity, I think we are barking up the wrong tree with saying "there are no brahmin brides in the state" & "brahmin men unable to find girls for marriage".

What I have seen is Tamil Brahmin Bridegrooms and their family expect the girls to be docile, meek , devoted to husband/family, be dependent on the husband and be a child bearing machine - 2 kids in 2 to 3 years of marriage.

What they fail to understand is current generation of Tamil brahmin girls (irrespective of the sub-caste and location) are independent, well educated and modern - not just in attire but also in the thought process.

These Tamil brahmin men feel intimated by such women and thus begins the cycle of "unable to find a suitable girl for marriage".

Rather than understanding the current reality and the current generation's expectation, the parents are still wanting a homely, traditional wife for their son.

At the same time, most brahmin boys are like Ambi in Anniyan.

With the advent of technology and everything else, all girls want their better half to have some aspects of Remo - not just in attire but also in the thought process.

Until this problem is addressed, this problem of no girls for marriage will continue to exist.

Over 40,000 Tamil Brahmin bachelors could not find matches; to scout for brides in UP, Bihar

As more than 40,000 young Tamil Brahmin men are finding it difficult to find brides within the state, the Tamil Nadu based association for Brahmins has launched a special drive to look for suitable matches belonging to the same community in Uttar Pradesh and Bihar.

www.deccanherald.com

 

[Vaagmi]

Another problem area which need a bit of structuring is social groups. We have numerous religious groups with Bhakti and Bhagavath kainkaryam as their agenda. There are no social associations/groups with service to community and providing a forum for youngsters to meet and get to know. If such groups can be organised in every city and then become cohesive to become a national association it can help young men and women to meet. To meet and understand is the first step in a friendship. It is lacking in Brahmin community perhaps because of a handed down value system. It is time people think about this.

 

[renuka]

What about Anniyan?
No one wants Anniyan?LOL

 

[prasad1]

While I have no comments over the association's activity, I think we are barking up the wrong tree with saying "there are no brahmin brides in the state" & "brahmin men unable to find girls for marriage".

What I have seen is Tamil Brahmin Bridegrooms and their family expect the girls to be docile, meek , devoted to husband/family, be dependent on the husband and be a child bearing machine - 2 kids in 2 to 3 years of marriage.

What they fail to understand is current generation of Tamil brahmin girls (irrespective of the sub-caste and location) are independent, well educated and modern - not just in attire but also in the thought process.

These Tamil brahmin men feel intimated by such women and thus begins the cycle of "unable to find a suitable girl for marriage".

Rather than understanding the current reality and the current generation's expectation, the parents are still wanting a homely, traditional wife for their son.

At the same time, most brahmin boys are like Ambi in Anniyan.

With the advent of technology and everything else, all girls want their better half to have some aspects of Remo - not just in attire but also in the thought process.

Until this problem is addressed, this problem of no girls for marriage will continue to exist.

Over 40,000 Tamil Brahmin bachelors could not find matches; to scout for brides in UP, Bihar

As more than 40,000 young Tamil Brahmin men are finding it difficult to find brides within the state, the Tamil Nadu based association for Brahmins has launched a special drive to look for suitable matches belonging to the same community in Uttar Pradesh and Bihar.

www.deccanherald.com

Amazing, and very appropriate analysis.
I have been saying it, but never this compelling. Your analysis comes from a young TB living in Chennai.
I think people will listen.
Well done Praveen,

 

[Lotusinsanskrit]

What I have seen is Tamil Brahmin Bridegrooms and their family expect the girls to be docile, meek , devoted to husband/family, be dependent on the husband and be a child bearing machine - 2 kids in 2 to 3 years of marriage.

I am disagreeing to this and these kind of situation has gone. Now the expectation is from girls side only. In fact not only the TB in TN are not getting brides but the TB in elsewhere that is particularly in Delhi finding it difficult to get brides. The brides are expecting only US/abroad and their expectation of salary is bit worrying. I have seen this situation in my close circle of friends/relatives. Also the situation not only for TB even other telugu Brahmins belongs to TN.

So it may not be nice even in this era to blame the bridegroom's side. Even in this platform we can see whenever we share the bridegroom's details no responses from brides side at all. So the decision taken by association is welcome and appreciable.

 

[Lotusinsanskrit]

At the same time, most brahmin boys are like Ambi in Anniyan.

Ha ha ha this may be true. But what to do, the society is making them to be like that right from their collegehood by adjusting with so many hardships of not getting seats of their choice/interest and continue in the ride of searching jobs and getting stress in the corporate world.

So for girls the remo type will be only from other caste/religion as they get everything of their choice/interest while TB will look like Ambi only.

 

[praveen]

What about Anniyan?
No one wants Anniyan?LOL

You would be surprised.

A lot of marriages in the TB household, especially in the lower strata of the population, end up like the Anniyan character.

Frequent quarrels, fights, insecurities and what not.

Just that, the community is very traditional so these never come out of the 4 walls or 8 walls.

 

[praveen]

I am disagreeing to this and these kind of situation has gone. Now the expectation is from girls side only. In fact not only the TB in TN are not getting brides but the TB in elsewhere that is particularly in Delhi finding it difficult to get brides. The brides are expecting only US/abroad and their expectation of salary is bit worrying. I have seen this situation in my close circle of friends/relatives. Also the situation not only for TB even other telugu Brahmins belongs to TN.

So it may not be nice even in this era to blame the bridegroom's side. Even in this platform we can see whenever we share the bridegroom's details no responses from brides side at all. So the decision taken by association is welcome and appreciable.

Not blaming the bridegroom side. The expectations mismatch are from both sides.

The bride's family are also equally at fault.

"My daughter is handsome, beautiful and so I only want a bridegroom who earns 2 lakhs a month / US citizen / Green card holders" is very very common these days.

Much of this expectations comes from the parents who want their son/daughter to lead a life they may or may not have had. So, in their interest to safeguard the future, sometimes it goes beyond belief.

 

[praveen]

Ha ha ha this may be true. But what to do, the society is making them to be like that right from their collegehood by adjusting with so many hardships of not getting seats of their choice/interest and continue in the ride of searching jobs and getting stress in the corporate world.

So for girls the remo type will be only from other caste/religion as they get everything of their choice/interest while TB will look like Ambi only.

Well said

 

[praveen]

Another problem area which need a bit of structuring is social groups. We have numerous religious groups with Bhakti and Bhagavath kainkaryam as their agenda. There are no social associations/groups with service to community and providing a forum for youngsters to meet and get to know. If such groups can be organised in every city and then become cohesive to become a national association it can help young men and women to meet. To meet and understand is the first step in a friendship. It is lacking in Brahmin community perhaps because of a handed down value system. It is time people think about this.

Sadly most religious groups have a political agenda (or atleast have an agenda like that of politics).
What starts off as a service eventually gets corrupt along the way either by choice or by chance or by external pressure.

 

[prasad1]

It is no different in the USA.
South Indian boys, particularly TB boys are Ambies.
The Parents are to blame, they live in little Madras in the US cities.
They do not evolve.
Gujaratis have social meetings of boys & Girls without parents. Tamil parents do not see beyond their noses.
The boys and girls are dating, but parents are oblivious to the fact and want a Jadagam match, subgroup match, etc.
Then the boys and girls end up marrying American, African, etc.

 

[mskmoorthy]

In defense of Ambis - What is so wrong with being an ambi - That is how nerds were treated in High schools cliques. I consider calling some one as Ambi is offensive -
It is perfectly alright to be different from the general norm. One generation might suffer - But this too will pass. Ambis and Nerds of the world unite.

 

[renuka]

You would be surprised.

A lot of marriages in the TB household, especially in the lower strata of the population, end up like the Anniyan character.

Frequent quarrels, fights, insecurities and what not.

Just that, the community is very traditional so these never come out of the 4 walls or 8 walls.

Dear Praveen,
Even among Non Brahmins its not that much different especially the ego hassles and fights.

I feel may be over all Indian society be it in India or abroad are still quite " reactive" and are resistant to change.

Usually Indians are living in the past glory and in the future anxiety..though the Indian philosophy is all about mindfulness of being in the present but its seldom actualy achieved.

Somehow it could stem from a quest for perfection.
May be if one takes one day at a time and handle polar opposites as well as one can, then anxiety to be perfect would cease to exists.

It shouldnt be too hard, because over all Indians can accept reality.

 

[renuka]

In defense of Ambis - What is so wrong with being an ambi - That is how nerds were treated in High schools cliques. I consider calling some one as Ambi is offensive -
It is perfectly alright to be different from the general norm. One generation might suffer - But this too will pass. Ambis and Nerds of the world unite.

Being an Ambi or Nerd is fine as long one can live in the present and not be stuck in Jurassic era.

One can still adhere to religion and tradition without living in the past.

Religion and tradition should finally lead one to Moksha.
One who is stuck in the past doesnt improve in the spiritual path.

An Ambi could still do his trikala sandhya, preserve his virginity till marriage, not smoke, not drink, be a strict vegetarian...thats all fine and he should be able to fit all that in the present era.

Thats all.

 

[renuka]

Sravna...where are you?
What is your opinion on Ambi, Remo and Anniyan?

 

[Mani_Chennai]

From my talk t about 50 IITans, it seems all these boys and girls first need counseling. That does not mean they are crazy or nuts, rather have enormous deep insecurity and stress. But this should not be done forcefully, rather these boys and girls must do it on their own and understand that they can be normal and decide what is important in their life - happiness (90% of the time) or unhappiness (90%) time. Parents are in tirisangu and mainly boy's mothers due to their inherited "Y" chromosome for begetting a boy, want to be a helicopter parent - they decide what is good for the boys.

Brahman community is very peculiar - they want to be rich like a business people but be obedient to their parents (especially mothers). Women organization should take up the education of changing the mind set of mothers and assure them that eventually they will be old and will need some family support and not a "care home". They should see that their sons have not only academic skills but also family and interpersonal skills - so called soft skills required by business organization.

I know a family personally where excepting the mother (she was a BA and Tennis player) all the children and their spouses are PHD. When asked the father why does he insists on a PhD? He said , it means the boy has creativity and imitative and eventually will come up in life. Engineers and Doctors like the painters and can only do their routines ( I did not agree and asked him , what about PHD in Medicine and he said that is included in my PhD list).

Boys with Bachelor and Masers degrees are like the preBritish time Matriculates. They need to acquire new skill sets, take evening classes, marketing and accounting and expect a partner not a servant.

Whether we like it or not, slowly these changes will take place. Migration has taught our boys and girls that remarriage is OK, premarital sex is OK (Western Standards), trying new thing is OK and so on.

But my cousin in USA tells me that there are a very high number of over 40 Yrs girls ready to marry but mussed the boat because they gave more importance to career and independence.

Only turbid water will allow the sediments to settle and the clean water will come up.

Solution: Educate children in family values and a long term partnership with both parents and in-laws (our old system) because only groups can ensure the survival of the clan to a ripe age. If they don't agree they should reserve a place in a retirement nursing home. Boys should take at least one class (or seminar ) on home economics to understand how the family is run. They should be taught unless the girls are over 22 Yrs and boys 27+, mere love will not give them happiness. Their frontal lobe (frontal cortex) maturity alone will make them think, plan, compromise, which Indian parents in general, do not understand or refuse to accept while their physical non-frontal lobe maturity only give them physical maturity. .

 

[Vaagmi]

From my talk t about 50 IITans, it seems all these boys and girls first need counseling. That does not mean they are crazy or nuts, rather have enormous deep insecurity and stress. But this should not be done forcefully, rather these boys and girls must do it on their own and understand that they can be normal and decide what is important in their life - happiness (90% of the time) or unhappiness (90%) time. Parents are in tirisangu and mainly boy's mothers due to their inherited "Y" chromosome for begetting a boy, want to be a helicopter parent - they decide what is good for the boys.

Brahman community is very peculiar - they want to be rich like a business people but be obedient to their parents (especially mothers). Women organization should take up the education of changing the mind set of mothers and assure them that eventually they will be old and will need some family support and not a "care home". They should see that their sons have not only academic skills but also family and interpersonal skills - so called soft skills required by business organization.

I know a family personally where excepting the mother (she was a BA and Tennis player) all the children and their spouses are PHD. When asked the father why does he insists on a PhD? He said , it means the boy has creativity and imitative and eventually will come up in life. Engineers and Doctors like the painters and can only do their routines ( I did not agree and asked him , what about PHD in Medicine and he said that is included in my PhD list).

Boys with Bachelor and Masers degrees are like the preBritish time Matriculates. They need to acquire new skill sets, take evening classes, marketing and accounting and expect a partner not a servant.

Whether we like it or not, slowly these changes will take place. Migration has taught our boys and girls that remarriage is OK, premarital sex is OK (Western Standards), trying new thing is OK and so on.

But my cousin in USA tells me that there are a very high number of over 40 Yrs girls ready to marry but mussed the boat because they gave more importance to career and independence.

Only turbid water will allow the sediments to settle and the clean water will come up.

Solution: Educate children in family values and a long term partnership with both parents and in-laws (our old system) because only groups can ensure the survival of the clan to a ripe age. If they don't agree they should reserve a place in a retirement nursing home. Boys should take at least one class (or seminar ) on home economics to understand how the family is run. They should be taught unless the girls are over 22 Yrs and boys 27+, mere love will not give them happiness. Their frontal lobe (frontal cortex) maturity alone will make them think, plan, compromise, which Indian parents in general, do not understand or refuse to accept while their physical non-frontal lobe maturity only give them physical maturity. .

What is needed is:
1. A set of young men’s and young women’s clubs for Brahmin boys and girls. They will meet frequently discuss issues with friends and evolve in time.
2. Ultimately it is all about management. How to manage a possessive mother, a dominating mother in law, a father married to his business primarily, a husband who drinks like a fish and is flat most of the nights or one who treats his wife just as a upakaranam in his spiritual pursuit, a colleague in office who looks for opportunities to squeeze himself in, a child which takes its own sweet time to be born in the midst of all this misery and finally a good employer who uses the marks filter to select people - as if marks are the ultimate determinants for identifying abilities etc., etc., These relationships have to be managed tact fully and efficiently. The moment a problem in relationship is identified, the concerned boy or girl should learn to manage the relationship and the relative. He or she should learn to stand away from himself or herself and take a dispassionate look at whatever is happening. It could be really revealing and useful. Behavioural scientists have identified several “ ego states” and once the boy or girl learns the science of identifying the ego state of the person who appears to be a problem there are well tried solutions available to handle and manage the problem relationship. The Association of youngsters can play a very useful role in employing this management technique. I would even suggest that every boy and girl before marriage should attend a brief course on Behavioral Science. We equip them with health, education, job, parental support and financial inputs but fail to equip them with knowledge of management of human relations.
I hope our elders wake up and insist on the boy and girl attending such a behavioral science crash course before actually tying the knot.
Young people like Mr Praveen can initiate action on this as they have time on their side. For an old man like me it can be only giving advice.
I understand that the Syrian Christian community in Kerala have such a course conducted by Church for girls and boys as soon as they finish college and parents insist on such a certificate before marriage.
Praveen, all the best. God bless you.

 

[Lotusinsanskrit]

I hope our elders wake up and insist on the boy and girl attending such a behavioral science crash course before actually tying the knot

There are two things in this. You say before tying the knot but that itself is a problem that it is difficult to find brides that is the core issue of OP. Second thing I agree behavioural science should be taught by immediate seniors only and not the elders. For eg. Nowadays the youngsters are not even willing to attend the cousins or some relatives wards marriages even though parents wanted to come so that the opportunity to mingle with same age group of community.


Also in the OP though the author has not given the url it is in TOI and I have seen humpty number of comments there, especially from other state people thinking it is very to easy to get brides from other communities in TN but TBs are caste oriented. I really laugh(actually pity and sad) that already TBs are suffering and who will give brides to TBs unless it is love. Even in love marriages their conditions are hefty.

 

[Mani_Chennai]

What is needed is:
1. A set of young men’s and young women’s clubs for Brahmin boys and girls. They will meet frequently discuss issues with friends and evolve in time.
2. Ultimately it is all about management. How to manage a possessive mother, a dominating mother in law, a father married to his business primarily, a husband who drinks like a fish and is flat most of the nights or one who treats his wife just as a upakaranam in his spiritual pursuit, a colleague in office who looks for opportunities to squeeze himself in, a child which takes its own sweet time to be born in the midst of all this misery and finally a good employer who uses the marks filter to select people - as if marks are the ultimate determinants for identifying abilities etc., etc., These relationships have to be managed tact fully and efficiently. The moment a problem in relationship is identified, the concerned boy or girl should learn to manage the relationship and the relative. He or she should learn to stand away from himself or herself and take a dispassionate look at whatever is happening. It could be really revealing and useful. Behavioural scientists have identified several “ ego states” and once the boy or girl learns the science of identifying the ego state of the person who appears to be a problem there are well tried solutions available to handle and manage the problem relationship. The Association of youngsters can play a very useful role in employing this management technique. I would even suggest that every boy and girl before marriage should attend a brief course on Behavioral Science. We equip them with health, education, job, parental support and financial inputs but fail to equip them with knowledge of management of human relations.
I hope our elders wake up and insist on the boy and girl attending such a behavioral science crash course before actually tying the knot.
Young people like Mr Praveen can initiate action on this as they have time on their side. For an old man like me it can be only giving advice.
I understand that the Syrian Christian community in Kerala have such a course conducted by Church for girls and boys as soon as they finish college and parents insist on such a certificate before marriage.
Praveen, all the best. God bless you.

Add: Harikatha kalashebha bhagavatars, Visaka et al., should talk about these issues. She can see Rama and Sita looked at each other and felt as though they know each other. Shiva and Vishnu did not take any dowry etc. So your sons and daughters first must meet their Ramas and take it from there. Asking useless Patrams(Vessels) shows that the boy and his family are beggars. Even presents are useless – how many be happy stainless steel plates one can have and cheap Chinese plastic things. Rather pool all the money and ask the couple what they would like to have. In older days, Brahmans were poor, so every body pitched in, but now if the boys family cannot afford even cooking pots and pans, then their sons should remain bachelor until they have decent salary. They should not just marry for legal prostitution(sex). But will they do?

 

[sravna]

Sravna...where are you?
What is your opinion on Ambi, Remo and Anniyan?

Sorry Renuka. Just noticed this thread. I prefer a balanced mix of three. It is ok to be Ambi with your elders, Remo to your partner and Anniyan to mischief makers and miscreants.

 

[Mani_Chennai]

In one of the Harikathakalashepam, the Bhagavathar ssonnathu:

Brahmans love Tamil. If you look at the clan relationship, every relationship starts with “a”gara like a musical notes – appaa, ammaa, akkaa, ambi(thambi) anngachchi(thanngachchi), aththai, atthimber, annaa, but Taattaa is Thaattaa because if it is ‘aathtaa’ it will mean mother etc. அப்பா,அம்மா,அக்கா,அம்பி,அங்கச்சி,அண்ணா,அத்தை,அத்திம்பேர்.. Though hilarious, is it not true?. Ambi is like Ambaal)! So, he said, I call any good person as Ambi.

 

[Mani_Chennai]

In defense of Ambis - What is so wrong with being an ambi - That is how nerds were treated in High schools cliques. I consider calling some one as Ambi is offensive -
It is perfectly alright to be different from the general norm. One generation might suffer - But this too will pass. Ambis and Nerds of the world unite.

In one of the Harikathakalashepam, the Bhagavathar ssonnathu:

Brahmans love Tamil. If you look at the clan relationship, every relationship starts with “a”gara like a musical notes – appaa, ammaa, akkaa, ambi(thambi) anngachchi(thanngachchi), aththai, atthimber, annaa, but Taattaa is Thaattaa because if it is ‘aathtaa’ it will mean mother etc. அப்பா,அம்மா,அக்கா,அம்பி,அங்கச்சி,அண்ணா,அத்தை,அத்திம்பேர்.. Though hilarious, is it not true?. Ambi is like Ambaal)! So, he said, I call any good person as Ambi.

 

[sravna]

To be a Remo you need the capabilities of Ambi and Anniyan. To attract and protect which is what Remo does you need to possess the destructiveness of Anniyan and the childlike innocence of Ambi.

The best Remo is Lord Krishna

 

[prasad1]

To be a Remo you need the capabilities of Ambi and Anniyan. To attract and protect which is what Remo does you need to possess the destructiveness of Anniyan and the childlike innocence of Ambi.

The best Remo is Lord Krishna

There were many Krishna's depending on the storyteller.
There were many misrepresentations too.

The Krishna stealing gopies cloth was not the same, Krishna giving Gita Upadesh. Which Krishna is Remo?

 

[sravna]

There were many Krishna's depending on the storyteller.
There were many misrepresentations too.

The Krishna stealing gopies cloth was not the same, Krishna giving Gita Upadesh. Which Krishna is Remo?

Prasad

That's the beauty of Krishna's character. He can be different things to different people. To be a protector you need to be the best of all the worlds. Krishna's pranks came out of a pure heart. The same Krishna giving Gita upadesh shows the master of pragmatics at work.

He is complete and hence un circumscribed capabilities. So you may look at him in any way. There is always something to learn if you are open and perceptive.