A Tamil Brahmin Dilemma

There has been a shift in thinking of TB girls.

The average age for getting married has suddenly jumped to 28 years or more for girls.

Higher education and economic well being score over the need to find a suitable mate early

Then , the fear of ending with the wrong male who will compromise their work and family life with restrictions of various kinds weighs heavily on them.

Most put career over marriage .They have an eye on higher education abroad as it brings long with it personal freedom to do their own thing without stifling

restrictions of family and society here.

Many after minimal education in an engg also end up with decent IT jobs which open doors for foreign postings

A wild thought some have is whether marriage can be the elusive passport to a foreign country .

where does this leave all tamil brahmin boys?

lucky we got married 40-50 years back and did not have to face this .

Some TB boys parents atleast in north have realised that local types not necessarily tamil are better propositions.

one neighbour - a kayasth from UP is getting his daughter -well educated and employed - married to a tamil brahmin of iyengar variety.

It is an arranged match with boys parents running into the girl at a function and taking a liking to her.

The only condition from boys side -marriage as per TB customs.

The Kayasth is running around arranging for vaishnavite prohiths, south indian food contractor with yours truly helping with all my heart.

why not?

I am wondering if I can collect his younger daughter equally good for my extended family.lol

If TB girls play hard to get, one has to take what one can get.

Who knows the alternative from another community may fit in better with our family.

When people are neighbours with similar govt back grounds, middle class vegetarians fairly well educated and employed exposed to metro life , marriages

have a pretty good chance of succeeding. The language of bonding for life overcomes the differences in spoken language. Thats what I would like to believe

anyway.

What do you think?

krish44 said:

There has been a shift in thinking of TB girls.

The average age for getting married has suddenly jumped to 28 years or more for girls.

Higher education and economic well being score over the need to find a suitable mate early

Then , the fear of ending with the wrong male who will compromise their work and family life with restrictions of various kinds weighs heavily on them.

Most put career over marriage .They have an eye on higher education abroad as it brings long with it personal freedom to do their own thing without stifling

restrictions of family and society here.

Many after minimal education in an engg also end up with decent IT jobs which open doors for foreign postings

A wild thought some have is whether marriage can be the elusive passport to a foreign country .

where does this leave all tamil brahmin boys?

lucky we got married 40-50 years back and did not have to face this .

Some TB boys parents atleast in north have realised that local types not necessarily tamil are better propositions.

one neighbour - a kayasth from UP is getting his daughter -well educated and employed - married to a tamil brahmin of iyengar variety.

It is an arranged match with boys parents running into the girl at a function and taking a liking to her.

The only condition from boys side -marriage as per TB customs.

The Kayasth is running around arranging for vaishnavite prohiths, south indian food contractor with yours truly helping with all my heart.

why not?

I am wondering if I can collect his younger daughter equally good for my extended family.lol

If TB girls play hard to get, one has to take what one can get.

Who knows the alternative from another community may fit in better with our family.

When people are neighbours with similar govt back grounds, middle class vegetarians fairly well educated and employed exposed to metro life , marriages

have a pretty good chance of succeeding. The language of bonding for life overcomes the differences in spoken language. Thats what I would like to believe

anyway.

What do you think?

Click to expand...

A society in decay.

Elders in the family--read parents and grand parents (if they were accepted for living in the joint family)-- have been miserably failing in their duty to teach values and culture to the children and grand children. They have been living unrestrained lives drinking and merry making while the children picked up their basic values from elsewhere - from friends and peers and cinemas.

So marriages here are not unions of families and minds any more. They are just a train journey together. Each one keeps to himself/herself, eats her own food, sleeps in the berth allotted to him/her and gets down at various destinations. The love is just passion and it never transcends that hurdle. Children are "love children" and nothing more. They have to mend for themselves. Papa goes to work at ten in the morning and momma goes earlier at 9.30. While mom returns by 6 evening Pa returns at night at 9-on most of the days on four legs. The children believe this is just life and gets themselves ready for it. So they develop a basic mistrust on their quarelling/fighting parents and prefer to take things in their hands. But their experience is just inadequate for a marriage decision. They usually make the wrong judgment/choice and end up with an intractable problem.

The pity is that we have ill informed arm-chair revolutionaries for elders who are ready to assist these youngsters in their stupid misadventures otherwise called liberal values of west.

The Jews of US had gone through a similar experience after the world war II and have struck on a good working plan. They encourage youngsters from within the community itself to meet and date under a mentor who keeps counselling the youngsters until a marriage happens. Brahmins can try that. It requires networking first and we are slow in learning.

I do not know if society is decaying - It has changed.

Marriage is between human beings -one male and one female.It is only union between them. It has ceased to be between families.

Just because both parents have a career and worklife which keeps them occupied a few hours a day does not make them less responsible towards their children.

Love, passion ,companionship is there in all marriages, caste and sub castes have nothing to do with it.

If parents outside tamil nadu , do not find suitable persons from their caste, I see nothing wrong if they look for alternatives which match their style of living and can

adopt brahmin customs and rituals.

I employ female cook from NB caste who is exposed to school education in school frequented by brahmins, talks brahmin tamil, cooks brahmin cuisine and not

distinguishable from other brahmin girls.

I see nothing wrong in picking on Kayasths from UP who were employed by the british along with tamil brahmins to do low level jobs in govt. for marriage purposes

Their children understand the govt culture, have received education in decent schools and colleges and are well employed.

They are middle class and know the local tongue and delhi culture and would have minimum adjustment issues.

Language and caste are not every thing in life.

Language is meant for communication . Nothing more.

Caste can only cause misery and not aid, facilitate relationships.

When in rome one must learn to live like romans.

In delhi , we govt types are part of a similar background .

We share a common legacy with UP kayasths, bengali brahmins who were found best fits for being employed by the british and later by indian govt.

We understand and bond better as families.

I do not understand the Psyche of tamil brahmins from tamilnadu .

I am more comfortable with delhi locals.

I would any day prefer a local to someone from thanjavur or trichy.

Let us see whathappens toTB girls who go abroad for studies and /or education.

Most would hardly consider marrying anyone from india.

A few years abroad makes them wish for companions who are similarly placed like them in USof A or canada.

They would either postpone their marriage or welcome their single status to marry a disaster from india who cannot give them the personal space they require and hard earned by them

going abroad and working in an alien country.

For them also , if they can get TB boys abroad fine or else any brahmin and in worst case any indian .

Some also think any american would be also OK but that might be the next generation TBs born and brought up there.

When people geographically drift away from their roots, They find comfort levels of their own choice depending on availability and local conditions.

Krishji, your observations are cent percent correct and accurate and many things could be added to it. The decay is by our TBs of yester generations who had nothing on their top and demanded secured job as priority and only qualification for a proposal. I know many girls of TB marrying into other communities. There will be some TBs left if they realise and come forward to accepting TBs from equal or lesser qualificatins/financial positions. Because, nowadays, girls study and earn more than boys. The faultline lyes with TBs only.

krish44 said:

I do not know if society is decaying - It has changed.

1. Marriage is between human beings -one male and one female.It is only union between them. It has ceased to be between families.

2. Just because both parents have a career and worklife which keeps them occupied a few hours a day does not make them less responsible towards their children.

3. Love, passion ,companionship is there in all marriages, caste and sub castes have nothing to do with it.

4. If parents outside tamil nadu , do not find suitable persons from their caste, I see nothing wrong if they look for alternatives which match their style of living and can adopt brahmin customs and rituals.

5. I employ female cook from NB caste who is exposed to school education in school frequented by brahmins, talks brahmin tamil, cooks brahmin cuisine and not distinguishable from other brahmin girls.

6. I see nothing wrong in picking on Kayasths from UP who were employed by the british along with tamil brahmins to do low level jobs in govt. for marriage purposesTheir children understand the govt culture, have received education in decent schools and colleges and are well employed.They are middle class and know the local tongue and delhi culture and would have minimum adjustment issues.

7. Language and caste are not every thing in life. Caste can only cause misery and not aid, facilitate relationships.

8. Language is meant for communication . Nothing more.

9. When in rome one must learn to live like romans.

10. In delhi , we govt types are part of a similar background .We share a common legacy with UP kayasths, bengali brahmins who were found best fits for being employed by the british and later by indian govt. We understand and bond better as families.

11. I do not understand the Psyche of tamil brahmins from tamilnadu . I am more comfortable with delhi locals.
I would any day prefer a local to someone from thanjavur or trichy.

Click to expand...

Krishji,

I have lived for long outside Tamilnadu in states like Gujarat, Maharashtra and Kerala besides abroad. So this is not from an alien to you. You have lived in Delhi and I have lived in Ahmedabad and my daughter's formative first five years were moulded by a school in Ahmedabad. And I am not going to take cover saying that we merged with the Gujarati culture and lost our unique identity -a tamil brahmin, Iyengar to be precise, identity. If I had failed in teaching my culture and values to my child I would boldly say so and take responsibility for that.

I have given numbers to points in your post for convenience of quoting in reply.

1. We are speaking here about human beings and so your point is a given fact. Nothing unique about it. My stress is on the bundle that the male and female are and on the contents of that bundle. And about what kind of an offsping-a mini bundle- they are going to create. This is where the families matter. The families are the factories in which the human being picks up several raw materials that go into his/her making. So families are important. Without knowing anything about the family if you enter into a marriage for your daughter with a boy from the family of butchers (the boy himself may not be a butcher but may be an IT professional) you can be certain that one day there will be a butchering happening and your name will be tarnished. Brahmins abhor butchering. Among TBs, marriages have not yet ceased to be between families as you say.

You can not marry a donkey with a horse though they both belong to a particular biological species. LOL.

2. Well, if parents find time in spite of their busy work schedule, their children would not miss their traditional values.

3. Agreed. But genes are certainly different and cultural and value background are different.

4. That is indeed ok. But there is nothing very glorious about it to come and proclaim here. It is only the second best choice.

5. Again the second best choice. You have perhaps no alternative. But it is certainly not the best option. And that is the relevant point here.

6. Take an imaginery situation. It is day of apocalypse and the world is coming to an end because all the nuclear weapons stockpiled in the world have all exploded simultaneously and I have just 10 minutes to get into a plane and fly away looking for some place to land. I find a small island hardly 2 square kilo metres in the sea somewhere near the southpole and I land there. And I find that there is a young woman-not very good looking, not very tall not well endowed with etc. etc.,-who is dark and short, who is the only other inhabitant in that remote island. What do you think I will do? Certainly I will strike a friendship with her and possibly we two will start a new civilization together there begetting children etc.,

So what is a last resort can not be the first choice. Last resorts have their own logic and people call it a "compromise". LOL

You are in Delhi and TN is not yet another faraway planet in the Andromeda galaxy. if you are lazy you may get your son married to your next door girl-whoever she may be.

7. Caste is certainly an important factor. With caste you narrow down your search for a suitable match considerably. You do not have to engage a detective/a blood test or a gene mapping to do a lot of background verification. Caste is not all but caste is convenient.

8. Agreed fully.

9. It is only a saying. I wont walk upside down if Romans are doing that. i would take the first flight and return to my country and be jobless for sometime than struggle in Rome walking with my hands. LOL.

10.It is your choice and I have no power to stop you. But back ground for generations is important. and you are just overlooking that vital aspect. It may cost you and your children dearly.

11.It is not as if the people from Trichy and Tanjore are waiting in queues to be favoured with an alliance by Delhiite Babus. You do what is best for your mind. Please do not write out a prescription for others here on the basis of your view.

All the best.

krish44 said:

Let us see whathappens toTB girls who go abroad for studies and /or education.

Most would hardly consider marrying anyone from india.

A few years abroad makes them wish for companions who are similarly placed like them in USof A or canada.

They would either postpone their marriage or welcome their single status to marry a disaster from india who cannot give them the personal space they require and hard earned by them

going abroad and working in an alien country.

For them also , if they can get TB boys abroad fine or else any brahmin and in worst case any indian .

Some also think any american would be also OK but that might be the next generation TBs born and brought up there.

When people geographically drift away from their roots, They find comfort levels of their own choice depending on availability and local conditions.

Click to expand...

Krishji,

Just a small correction to your post:

The first line should read as follows instead of what it is now there:

"Let us see what happens to TB girls with parents,

--who had no time to spend with them. Had no time to guide them with their natural questions that popped up when they came across strange behavior and strange logic from outside world while they were children going to school/college etc.,

--Who were themselves ignorant of answers to many questions that came to theiur mind as children. Some did not have their parents' ears to them. They were busy always with their work, friends and passtimes.

--Who had little knowledge of their brahmin background, culture and values or had no time and inclination to learn them.

--Who were given to living licentiously in the name of superior western "liberal" values.

--who were plain lazy".

Now please replace your first line with what I have written above and read it and that will be the counter point to your POV. The rest of the lines in your post may follow and left untouched.

Vaagmi said:

The Jews of US had gone through a similar experience after the world war II and have struck on a good working plan. They encourage youngsters from within the community itself to meet and date under a mentor who keeps counselling the youngsters until a marriage happens. Brahmins can try that. It requires networking first and we are slow in learning.

Click to expand...

There is no other alternative for the community to survive, I guess...Our community elders are still in a quandary about the actual issue...We keep doubting the data & not act...I think every day of procrastination is going to cost our community..I will give one sample...There are 6 marriages in one of my TB relatives family in the last 10 years in Bengaluru...Out of 6, 5 are outside the Brahmin fold..In Delhi it is far worse...We can shut our eyes and not see the reality...We are good at sermons..But in terms of execution we are a far cry!

vgane said:

There is no other alternative for the community to survive, I guess...Our community elders are still in a quandary about the actual issue...We keep doubting the data & not act...I think every day of procrastination is going to cost our community..I will give one sample...There are 6 marriages in one of my TB relatives family in the last 10 years in Bengaluru...Out of 6, 5 are outside the Brahmin fold..In Delhi it is far worse...We can shut our eyes and not see the reality...We are good at sermons..But in terms of execution we are a far cry!

Click to expand...

This thread has two aspects, some are expressing the ground reality and others are expressing Utopian dream or yearning.
There are multiple choices in the world, and conditions keep changing. I do not think there is right and wrong ways of getting married. If homo-sapiens could establish relations with Neanderthal, why cannot a TB establish a relation with Gujarati.

Yes. Well said. Most of the TBs are not getting suitable brides for them. Well educated and employed boys can easily get a suitable bride. But think about the boy with low and middle income group boys. They are being denied by the young uneducated home living girls. Some TBs are now in pursuit of other non Brahman girls also. What is the remedy?

Prasadji

Dreams are what they are. Only dreams.

Marriages are ultimately compromises and there are always gaps between what one aspires for and what one settles for.

Those who do not see the writing on the wall and make the necessary changes to suit the new emerging social order obliterating language differences , caste and

religion, get isolated from the mainstream and end up as unacceptable entities, despised by community at large and cursed by siblings, relatives and children

for inability to find matches at the right age making some compromises and also leaving behind children who are not in tune for facing challenges of modern living


In fact , I find men in thirties from brahmin communities still waiting for the dream traditional girl that one day their parents may locate for them, So do parents of

the girl wait for the traditional higher caste boy they want but their daughters do not relish to be seen with. There are many dysfunctional families of this type

My simple approach is take what best one can get without wasting more time , There is no perfect match.More waiting , worse options in times to come.

People who have been uprooted from their traditional homes and are drifting,
People who have no place to come to in their traditional home,
People who are sold on the so called liberal values of West like Dad offering the Son a stiff peg of Rum every night before supper(just one example and there are many more),
People who did not know what their heritage, culture and basic value system are because either they had no desire to learn them or because their parents miserably failed to convey them ,
People who are lost to a licentious living without restraint believing that money and money-given enjoyment is all that is there to living,,
People who have a spouse who belongs to any of the above listed type,
People who are just lazy to teach their children brahmin culture, values etc.,

These are the type of people who come here to deliver sermons about the greatness of IC, IR marriages. They are pathetic creatures who are licking their wounds inflicted by their wayward sons and daughters.

In course of time they start believing that what their children did is the right thing because they have no alternative (stockholm syndrome).

For every IC or IR marriages there are still a hundred within-the-community brahmin marriages happening in Tamilnadu and the majority of such couples live happily ever after.

For those Delhiites whose children have deserted them and left them in the lurch, this fact is unpalatable. So they keep ranting about children despising their parents, stupid liberal values, dysfunctional families, utopian dreams etc.,

They live in a fools' paradise.

Sabko sanmati de bhagwan!!!

vgane said:

There is no other alternative for the community to survive, I guess...Our community elders are still in a quandary about the actual issue...We keep doubting the data & not act...I think every day of procrastination is going to cost our community..I will give one sample...There are 6 marriages in one of my TB relatives family in the last 10 years in Bengaluru...Out of 6, 5 are outside the Brahmin fold..In Delhi it is far worse...We can shut our eyes and not see the reality...We are good at sermons..But in terms of execution we are a far cry!

Click to expand...

Yes.

I have many a time wondered about this funny but serious flaw in our society.

Like we have youngsters who can master hard coding and who thoroughly understand logic gate level intricacies of the anatomy of a computer and yet we also have banks where for a SB account transaction you go to one counter while for buying a DD you go another counter and to take cash you go to yet another counter in a branch (just nothing has changed from the old pre computerisation days).

And as a chain another thought passes the mind-What is the need for 3000 to 5000 sft of floor space for a bank branch. Just a thousand sft should be enough if judiciously the space is used to keep the server and terminals to access it.

Similarly we in our community have all the thinking resources. But there is no action.

As you have said it is high time we start a networking effort to create a data base of all brahmin families in the country. It can be used for several purposes for the benefit of the community. Even isolated efforts at different centres to start with can coalece into an integrated data base.

Just some loud thinking.

Vaagmi said:

People who have been uprooted from their traditional homes and are drifting,
People who have no place to come to in their traditional home,
People who are sold on the so called liberal values of West like Dad offering the Son a stiff peg of Rum every night before supper(just one example and there are many more),
People who did not know what their heritage, culture and basic value system are because either they had no desire to learn them or because their parents miserably failed to convey them ,
People who are lost to a licentious living without restraint believing that money and money-given enjoyment is all that is there to living,,
People who have a spouse who belongs to any of the above listed type,
People who are just lazy to teach their children brahmin culture, values etc.,

These are the type of people who come here to deliver sermons about the greatness of IC, IR marriages. They are pathetic creatures who are licking their wounds inflicted by their wayward sons and daughters.

In course of time they start believing that what their children did is the right thing because they have no alternative (stockholm syndrome).

For every IC or IR marriages there are still a hundred within-the-community brahmin marriages happening in Tamilnadu and the majority of such couples live happily ever after.

For those Delhiites whose children have deserted them and left them in the lurch, this fact is unpalatable. So they keep ranting about children despising their parents, stupid liberal values, dysfunctional families, utopian dreams etc.,

They live in a fools' paradise.

Sabko sanmati de bhagwan!!!

Click to expand...

Vaagmiji,
I generally avoid your post because you are so similar to Donald Trump. He insults all his opponents in the US presidential race. You Sir, have insulted everyone who presents opposing views in this forum. There is no conversation with you in any thread. It is your way or the highway. We are all guest in this site, and generally we behave as guest. You on the other hand think you own the site and can drive away as many people as possible.
You really do not believe:

Sabko sanmati de bhagwan!!!

Click to expand...

For you it is:

Jiski lati uski bhaise

Click to expand...

You either do not know of lifestyle of others who are different from you, or you could care less.
No body is delivering sermon on the greatness of IR or IC marriages. There are people who accept it or there are others who will not accept it. It is fact of life.
Society is always dynamic, some are stuck in mud while others move on. Evolution says both are survivors.
For instance a barnacle stays in one spots and evolves whereas most other creatures move on to evolve. Nothing is right or wrong, it is just different.
A barnacle need not be envious of the seal swimming.

Vaagmi said:

Yes.

I have many a time wondered about this funny but serious flaw in our society.

Like we have youngsters who can master hard coding and who thoroughly understand logic gate level intricacies of the anatomy of a computer and yet we also have banks where for a SB account transaction you go to one counter while for buying a DD you go another counter and to take cash you go to yet another counter in a branch (just nothing has changed from the old pre computerisation days).

And as a chain another thought passes the mind-What is the need for 3000 to 5000 sft of floor space for a bank branch. Just a thousand sft should be enough if judiciously the space is used to keep the server and terminals to access it.

Similarly we in our community have all the thinking resources. But there is no action.

As you have said it is high time we start a networking effort to create a data base of all brahmin families in the country. It can be used for several purposes for the benefit of the community. Even isolated efforts at different centres to start with can coalece into an integrated data base.

Just some loud thinking.

Click to expand...

One can prepare databases but one cannot change mindsets.

No one would like to take extra efforts or make sacrifices to find a match in the same community.

Which iyengar

girl with a comfortable career in bangalore or chennai close to her parents would like to rough it out in delhi just for getting married in same caste.

Is any boy prepared to shift base to south metro only to get married?

Girls logic runs like this.

If I have go away from south india, I would rather end up in US or canada than delhi

Data bases will be good for govt to calculate entitlements for reservation or deny some benefit to brahmins as they are a previleged class.

Brahmins are past the stage for availing benefits.

Most brahmin girls are in matrimonial sites because their parents have posted them. Parents also have no intention of getting them married in a hurry as the girls are

economic entities.It is just a game comfortable for both the girl and parents.

Parents play with horoscope of boys and family details , girls try to engage with boys to find faults if someone by mistake show interest. Most girls say they would like to chat for a few

months before deciding. Overall it is good fun if one is an educated career girl.

Then there are are some who would like to build data bases of such people.

Why not my friend ?

More activities for the seniors, more time killing activities.

krish44 said:

One can prepare databases but one cannot change mindsets.

No one would like to take extra efforts or make sacrifices to find a match in the same community.

Which iyengar

girl with a comfortable career in bangalore or chennai close to her parents would like to rough it out in delhi just for getting married in same caste.

Is any boy prepared to shift base to south metro only to get married?

Girls logic runs like this.

If I have go away from south india, I would rather end up in US or canada than delhi

Data bases will be good for govt to calculate entitlements for reservation or deny some benefit to brahmins as they are a previleged class.

Brahmins are past the stage for availing benefits.

Most brahmin girls are in matrimonial sites because their parents have posted them. Parents also have no intention of getting them married in a hurry as the girls are

economic entities.It is just a game comfortable for both the girl and parents.

Parents play with horoscope of boys and family details , girls try to engage with boys to find faults if someone by mistake show interest. Most girls say they would like to chat for a few

months before deciding. Overall it is good fun if one is an educated career girl.

Then there are are some who would like to build data bases of such people.

Why not my friend ?

More activities for the seniors, more time killing activities.

Click to expand...

Krishji,

I am not yet fit to be classified as a senior. So forget it.

The networking I mentioned about was not a matrimonial site.

We have many such sites. It is only the lazy parents who do not want to search for a boy for their girl who do not visit these sites.

A girl with a comfortable job in Bangalore or Chennai would prefer to look for a match from the respective cities. Similarly a girl with a job in Delhi may look for one from Delhi. The community in Delhi being a small one, it may be difficult to find a match from delhi. so look for the boy from the next door kayasth family or the GSB family or the Takur family.

And what is lost in the transaction is the treasure built over centuries of a certain culture and environment. And anyway who is bothered? Ignorent parents gloat over the tall, handsome, aquiline nosed next door yadav boy who is a far superior match than the simple Ambi from south. Any way if there is going to be an incident in which a young 14 years old kid from the family took a gun to his school and shot dead the bully in the class in cold blood after say 60 years, I am not going to live to hear it and regret my stupidity. What is culture? is it available for Rs. 20/- a kilo or 30/- a kilo?

My dear sweet daughter, We are in Delhi. We have to become delhiites and that is more important than being a Madrasi here. So while I go to drink with my Punjabi friend and your mother is trying hard to figure out where she went wrong (in marrying me or in bringing you up) you keep doing things which give you thrill. Don't come and ask me difficult to answer questions such as what is Hinduism, why we are called iyengars, why should my brother wear a poonool which I should not wear, why there are so many gods in Hinduism etc., I do not know the answers myself. I am sorry.

prasad1 said:

Vaagmiji,
I generally avoid your post because you are so similar to Donald Trump. He insults all his opponents in the US presidential race. You Sir, have insulted everyone who presents opposing views in this forum. There is no conversation with you in any thread. It is your way or the highway. We are all guest in this site, and generally we behave as guest. You on the other hand think you own the site and can drive away as many people as possible.
You really do not believe:

For you it is:

You either do not know of lifestyle of others who are different from you, or you could care less.
No body is delivering sermon on the greatness of IR or IC marriages. There are people who accept it or there are others who will not accept it. It is fact of life.
Society is always dynamic, some are stuck in mud while others move on. Evolution says both are survivors.
For instance a barnacle stays in one spots and evolves whereas most other creatures move on to evolve. Nothing is right or wrong, it is just different.
A barnacle need not be envious of the seal swimming.

Click to expand...

prasadji,

That is a piece of unsolicited advice. Thanks . Please keep it with you.

You have a tendency to get personal when you find yourself in a corner. So I choose to ignore your this post and do not reply. If I reply I know you won't be able to stomach the facts and will write a PM to me.

So your post eminently deserves to be ignored.

Vaagmi said:

Krishji,

I am not yet fit to be classified as a senior. So forget it.

The networking I mentioned about was not a matrimonial site.

We have many such sites. It is only the lazy parents who do not want to search for a boy for their girl who do not visit these sites.

A girl with a comfortable job in Bangalore or Chennai would prefer to look for a match from the respective cities. Similarly a girl with a job in Delhi may look for one from Delhi. The community in Delhi being a small one, it may be difficult to find a match from delhi. so look for the boy from the next door kayasth family or the GSB family or the Takur family.

And what is lost in the transaction is the treasure built over centuries of a certain culture and environment. And anyway who is bothered? Ignorent parents gloat over the tall, handsome, aquiline nosed next door yadav boy who is a far superior match than the simple Ambi from south. Any way if there is going to be an incident in which a young 14 years old kid from the family took a gun to his school and shot dead the bully in the class in cold blood after say 60 years, I am not going to live to hear it and regret my stupidity. What is culture? is it available for Rs. 20/- a kilo or 30/- a kilo?

My dear sweet daughter, We are in Delhi. We have to become delhiites and that is more important than being a Madrasi here. So while I go to drink with my Punjabi friend and your mother is trying hard to figure out where she went wrong (in marrying me or in bringing you up) you keep doing things which give you thrill. Don't come and ask me difficult to answer questions such as what is Hinduism, why we are called iyengars, why should my brother wear a poonool which I should not wear, why there are so many gods in Hinduism etc., I do not know the answers myself. I am sorry.

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Vaagmiji
I understand that culture and vaishnavite background can matter to some and they value it a lot.

tamil educated and working brahmin girls -iyengars have no issues as such.Staying in delhi They can pick and choose from anywhere in the country and abroad .they can easily find a match in their

own community or elswhere.There is a terrible shortage of these types

It is only the boys who face issues.That too because most career oriented girls have become choosey and many would prefer to postpone than being stuck with a husband at an

undesirable location. There are no ready answers for this issue.Reverse migration of boys to southern state is a solution.some are absorbing some one close to their

community .Else they can stay unmarried. One finds many boys[?] in late thirtees and early forties who have missed the marriage bus.

Vaagmi said:

People who have been uprooted from their traditional homes and are drifting,
People who have no place to come to in their traditional home,
People who are sold on the so called liberal values of West like Dad offering the Son a stiff peg of Rum every night before supper(just one example and there are many more),
People who did not know what their heritage, culture and basic value system are because either they had no desire to learn them or because their parents miserably failed to convey them ,
People who are lost to a licentious living without restraint believing that money and money-given enjoyment is all that is there to living,,
People who have a spouse who belongs to any of the above listed type,
People who are just lazy to teach their children brahmin culture, values etc.,
...

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So, actually do you expect a traditional iyengar/iyer priest or purohit to swear on the customs of others??? If that is what it is... you are letting loose ice arrows towards the sun.

These are the type of people who come here to deliver sermons about the greatness of IC, IR marriages. They are pathetic creatures who are licking their wounds inflicted by their wayward sons and daughters.

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The highlighted is a statement arising out of arrogance. Why do you want to stoop to such a level when you have the ability to be graceful and elegant?

It is my observation that in an alliance between TB and a north Indian, there always exists a superiority complex of the north Indians; this perhaps does not reveal itself as long as they remain neighbours, friends, etc. Hence, the TB boy or girl will have to get completely transformed into the north Indian's culture, language, customs, etc., etc., sooner than later if the marriage has to be saved. Net result is that we TBs lose one boy or girl to the northies.

Even after all the above, the north Indians generally look down upon southies and so once in a while this facet may come out in inter-family dialogues.

Last, but not the least, Kayasths are not brahmins.

Brahmins are always compared to a sack of marbles, when out of sack, will never remain united. If we create a network of TBs, they will come on board only for the purpose of getting into things like, school admissions, jobs, marriages but never to represent the community against onslaught or unite to fight for it. But, who knows, the future generation might come together and form a best networked community and fight and survive the onslaught. I heard that even in tamilnadu, other communities and castes and religions offer a hefty package to get one upper caste boy or girl into their fold. Many unsuspecting TBs fall prey to this. The only hope is to inculcate a good moral character and our culture/customs/traditions into young minds and also come forward openly and fight and unite for every right of our community. In this regard any proposal by learned elders are readly welcomed and appreciated. Instead of fighting thu-thu / main -main please create a platform where we can have a common code to unite and fight for our rights to survive.

auh said:

So, actually do you expect a traditional iyengar/iyer priest or purohit to swear on the customs of others??? If that is what it is... you are letting loose ice arrows towards the sun.

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No. A traditional Iyengar/Iyer priest and a traditional Iyengar/Iyer will not give a girl in marriage to such families nor will he accept a girl from such a family. Period. There goes your ice arrow shot at the sun. LOL.

The highlighted is a statement arising out of arrogance. Why do you want to stoop to such a level when you have the ability to be graceful and elegant?

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You are judgmental and arrogant. I do not accept your Naattaamaiship here. Period. LOL.

sangom said:

It is my observation that in an alliance between TB and a north Indian, there always exists a superiority complex of the north Indians; this perhaps does not reveal itself as long as they remain neighbours, friends, etc. Hence, the TB boy or girl will have to get completely transformed into the north Indian's culture, language, customs, etc., etc., sooner than later if the marriage has to be saved. Net result is that we TBs lose one boy or girl to the northies.

Even after all the above, the north Indians generally look down upon southies and so once in a while this facet may come out in inter-family dialogues.

Last, but not the least, Kayasths are not brahmins.

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Sangomji . All your points are very valid to a large extent

North indian brahmins will not touch south brahmins. One north indian brahmin class mate of mine got disowned when he married a konkan brahmin.His father

dismissed all south of india as rakshasas.lol

Kayasths are nor brahmins but forward caste. They are not bc or OBC. They do not enjoy reservations. In social scale they are next to brahmins and are mostly

salaried class in metros.

You are not right in believing that children of such alliances marry northerners.

If the mother is tamil brahmin, she would still push hr son/daughter towards south brahmins.

If father is Tamil brahmin, then there is a possibility that he will go out of south indian fold.

Every where women rule.

One should not fear losses. It depends on who makes the deal and who is the ultimate winner

Raji Ram said:

Orthodox Iyers and IyengArs DO stick to their tradition. :clap2:

Only the daughter chooses to shun her family and get married to her soul mate!! :bolt::hug:

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The so called orthodoxy has shirked its responsibility...The daughter marries a Christian and the son not to be left behind is marrying a Jain...When asked father retorts this is modernity & I cannot question my son....