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Oral tradition of the Vedas

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Nacchinarkiniyan

Nacchinarkiniyan

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The Vedas have been transmitted orally for thousands of years before being written down.

We believe that Vedas should not be written down. It was transferred to writing only when there was a fear that we may lose the entire Vedic knowledge. The Veda Mantras transmit power by the power of sound.
The power of sound is now accepted scientifically.

The oral tradition of reciting the Vedas has disappeared in most parts of India.

South India has retained and carried forward this tradition. Tamil Brahmins are one of the few communities who have nurtured the oral tradition.

There is a small article about it here.

http://www.svbf.org/sringeri/journal/vol1no2/chanting.html

UNESCO proclaimed the tradition of Vedic chant a Masterpiece of the Oral and Intangible Heritage of Humanity on November 7, 2003.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masterpieces_of_the_Oral_and_Intangible_Heritage_of_Humanity#2003_list

The general interest in this tradition was kindled by Frits Staal who organised an Athiratra Yajna at Panjal in Kerala in 1975. The Athiratra Yajna was again performed in 1990.

http://www.venumenon.com/articles/article_page.asp?catid=13&artid=23

Agni: The Vedic Ritual of the Fire Altar by Frits Staal.

Hours and hours of Vedic chanting was recorded and preserved. These are now available though expensive.

The tradition of the Tamil Brahmins is different from that of Namboodiris. We have a number of schools here. We also have a number of Veda Patashalas. Shringeri matam, Kanchi Kamakoti matam and a host of others have Veda Patasahalas. Shringeri matam organizes Vedic conferences in different parts of the country where Vedic pundits from different traditions come and recite the Vedas. They are also honored by the matam.

But we have not made any concerted effort in recording the different traditions. Some commercial efforts have been made and cassettes of Ghanapata are available.

You may ask what is the relevance of all this to you.

You can help preserve this tradition in many ways.

1. Buy a cassette of Vedic Chanting (especially Gahanpatam) and listen to it so that you will realise its value and also appreciate the efforts taken by the people learning the Vedas.

2. Contribute your mite for the existing Veda Patashalas.

May be one day someone or a group of people will come forward and make a concerted effort to record all the existing schools of recitation of the Vedas.
 
The oral tradition has died out in Bengal. the only people who are interested are the Dakshaneeya Vaidhikas (Smarta Tamil Brahmins who migrated to Bengal around 1000 A.D). The most orthodox send their children to Veda Patashalas in Tamil Nadu to study Vedas.

That should explain this statement in the Hare Krishna site

Thus Vedas cannot be studied today (example: one cannot study BG from only one chapter!). There are also no qualified brahmanas to teach them.
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There is one way we can start immediately. You know that most of our Sasthirigal or Purohits have completed the study in Veda Patashalas. (If they have not they should not be allowed to officiate.)

Find out from your Sasthirigal as to which Pathasala he has attended.

And most important if you consider Vedas to be the root of your religion please pay your Sasthirigal well. Why do we pay them less than what we pay an electrician or a plumber. He has studied Vedas for 10 years. That is more than an Engineering or Medical course.

Giving them respect and good Dhakshina is our duty as a Brahmin.
 
Yes, but nowadays our sastrigals are busy with overflowing appointments !
at least in metro's
They have no time ! Anyway I will check the next time , I visit india !

And I heard that in the veda patashalas they begin with recitals of slokas for a few years and only then the guru begins with discussions !
 
Have you tried to get a good plumber in U.S or any of the metros in India?

I know a Brahmin Boy who is an excellent qualified Air conditioning Mechanic. He migrated to Australia (At least that was what he was supposed to do), did a lot a free-lance mechanic work there and earned a fortune. Much more than what our engineers who went there earn in a life time. He is now back in India and has a firm doing the same work.

The Vedapatashalas take boys at a very young age.( They look cute with their Kudumis.) The classes depend on their progress. I have not gone into detail of the studies.

Do visit one of the Patashalas. It is an experience.
 
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Dear N:
Your posting has brought up an interesting point. During my stay in Chennai, I have observed that our Brahmin boys would like to rather be in a clerical job than going out and learn these very important and much-in-demand professions as a/c technician. It seems they are averse to doing manual and physical jobs. This is where these guys can take lessons from the US culture, where any job is considered good with dignity of labor in mind.
I have a nephew who has a BA degree (which is of no use anyway!); I suggested to him that he should go for some specialized technical training such as electrician (none of those electricians in Chennai are qualified or licensed) or a/c technician. He looked at me as if I insulted him! Go figure!

Nacchinarkiniyan said:
Have you tried to get a good plumber in U.S or any of the metros in India?
I know a Brahmin Boy who is an excellent qualified Air conditioning Mechanic. He migrated to Australia (At least that was what he was supposed to do), did a lot a free-lance mechanic work there and earned a fortune. Much more than what our engineers who went there earn in a life time. He is now back in India and has a firm doing the same work.

The Vedapatashalas take boys at a very young age.( They look cute with their Kudumis.) The classes depend on their progress. I have not gone into detail of the studies.

Do visit one of the Patashalas. It is an experience.
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Good observation Silver Fox ,
That's exactly the state of affairs!
The jobs of plumbing / electrician/ Ac mechanic / automobile mechanic's are quite remunerative in the GULf also and the advantage is
more the experience , more merrier the pay scale will be !!
There is a common opinion amongst our GUYS in T.N that these jobs are only for those who are not capable of getting academic qualifications!
The situation has to change !
If a thought goes that u need a lot of muscle power , it is misunderstood !
In the present system , u have powerful tools and equipment to do everything ! One just need to know how to use them !
 
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silverfox said:
I suggested to him that he should go for some specialized technical training such as electrician (none of those electricians in Chennai are qualified or licensed) or a/c technician. He looked at me as if I insulted him! Go figure!
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Did it ever occur to you that you may have crossed the line? How would you feel if someone were to tell you that you must consider becoming a sweeper?:juggle:

People are different. Some of us are ok with any job, even the job of the sweeper, as long as it pays, while others aren't. It's their nature. It's rather foolish to compare and contrast with the west in this regard. Every soul is intrinsically different.

Suresh
 
suresh*;9810It's rather foolish to compare and contrast with the west in this regard. Every soul is intrinsically different. Suresh[/quote said:
Dear Sri Suresh* Ji,

I don't understand this statement. In which way, we Indians are different from the people from the 'west' when it comes to any labor? Any honest labor is viewed as dignified and good all over the world!

Pranams,
KRS
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we can learn from the West!

suresh* said:
Did it ever occur to you that you may have crossed the line? How would you feel if someone were to tell you that you must consider becoming a sweeper?:juggle:
People are different. Some of us are ok with any job, even the job of the sweeper, as long as it pays, while others aren't. It's their nature. It's rather foolish to compare and contrast with the west in this regard. Every soul is intrinsically different.
Suresh
Click to expand...

Dear Suresh:
What line did I cross? Are you saying this person should rather sit at home doing nothing instead of going out and learn a trade that will pay him handily?
And.... what is wrong with a sweeper's job? As Sri KRS has pointed out, any honest work is good in the eys of the Lord. Haven't you heard of 'dignity of labor'? I am sorry to say this... but... the empty pride with the Tamil Brahmins is another impediment in our moving forward.
We can certainly learn many things from the West.
 
Mr Suresh , superstar ( promoted from hari ji's title )!

Please be informed that there have to be a few people to do the lower end jobs,
other wise the city will stink !
It is pretty obvious that guys who completed BA, BCom , BSc in some disciplines did not get a job in India since 5-6 yrs , may they hail from any community ,forget our community . Everyone knows that the computer-era has wiped off , so many jobs and to get into the IT field , u need to have a BE MCA or an MSc atleast!

So the issue here is to look for better options ! The best option available is always the traditional jobs like Fitter, mechanic- automobile, Ac technician, painter, carpenter, plumber, electrician etc, which has been suggested by the participants in this thread with GOOD INTENTION !

And about the dignity of labour there is no ' Good ' or ' Bad' job in this world!
One can be at the top of the world today and the almighty can get him down ,within ' No TIME ' - Nothing is permanent in this world ! - Watch out !!
" Aanavamum , Ahambhavavum Aalai azhithu vidum !! "
 
When Koyna (Maharashtra) dam was being constructed we had visited it. We were talking to some of the foreign technicians from Switzerland who had come to erect the generators. We were shocked to find that they were fitters by profession.
 
More than anything else, the " wrong guidances " by many are primarily responsible
for the misconcept prevailing amongst taking up such jobs !
As mentioned by Mr.nacchi , a fitter can go upto the extent of ripping apart a generator and fitting in unit by unit ! DEPENDING on his interest !
One needs to develop LOVE towards his job to gain credits ! and with the available support from Books , magazines and the net , he can be a MASTER in his field !


May I be a fish by birth in a small pond which may be ' No comparison ' to the mighty oceans and seas ,however , I shall try to be the best one there , doing my best ever in this lifetime, given by GOD !

Instead of being a shift worker , having an eye on the hands of the clock, if a portion
of time is spent focussing on the logic behind , reasoning what he has been doing for so many years, he can succeed !
 
I have only daughters. My brother and his wife who both are Ph.Ds have sent their two sons to a Veda patasala in Mysore as soon as they turned 5!
 
silverfox said:
Dear Suresh:
What line did I cross? Are you saying this person should rather sit at home doing nothing instead of going out and learn a trade that will pay him handily?
And.... what is wrong with a sweeper's job? As Sri KRS has pointed out, any honest work is good in the eys of the Lord. Haven't you heard of 'dignity of labor'? I am sorry to say this... but... the empty pride with the Tamil Brahmins is another impediment in our moving forward.
We can certainly learn many things from the West.
Click to expand...


Mr Suresh star,

Apropos your discussion with Sri Silverfox, I think you are right, if you permit a small variation.

Sri Silverfox “would have” “crossed the line” if he was “forcing” his nephew to take up the vocational training. On evidence of what he wrote, he wasn’t.

Suggesting / Advising doesn’t constitute breaching the lakshman rekha.

I know that todays young men and women have a congenital dislike for advice and I am no different. (Twin benefits here – no advice and a proclamation that I am still young J)

Having said that, if the person is so particular about the choice of employment, whatever that may be, should brave the period of lull. He needs to be steadfast in his thinking , as patient as “odu meen oda uru meen varum varaiyil vaadi irundha kokku” and not be a rabble-rouser.

Instead if he chooses to air his angst, it is only natural that genuine well meaning advice / suggestion comes your way.

So if he or she has invited “it” (meaning advice) by their own conduct, they shouldn’t be cuss about the same.

“Deivathaal aagadheninum muyarchi than mei varutha kooli tharum” wrote Saint Valluvar.

Moot point is that whether the young men and women are prepared to “varuthify their mei” to reach wherever they want to.
 
Look out the strategy how money can be made

In India its very important to know how one can own a business rather than doing work for others , particularly doing jobs in companies in tier 2 and tier 3 companies. There are lot of exploitations and no unions / persons can question them . Graduates are getting Rs1200 in the cities for teaching in schools.College lecturers are signing in papers saying they are getting 8.5K in papers but the real pay is sub five thousand in many private Engg colleges.A house broker in Bangalore will earn that money in a single day.I feel people cannot change their opinion suddenly.It has to be proved on ground. Govt job was considered to be secure and private jobs was considered otherwise. But today the situation is different. Only a few would have an insight to take a contrarian view that goes against the overall opinion. The amount say motor mechanics from company would be less . May be he would get some more money from the customers. But if he learns the job and is capable of running the business successfully it would be more beneficial.It is also important to analyze the self and decide which job suits him and where one can shine.
 
I am very sorry to learn that the employers swindle the employees by asking them to give a receipt for a higher amount but pay them less. I think there must be a law that the wages must be paid to the employees by direct bank deposit to avoid such cheating. But then we live in a country of cheaters, thieves and politicians (bad, worse and worst).
 
Oral tradition...

Sir,

I feel the best way to learn Veda chanting is under a well-qualified
teacher, Adhyapak, because he will correct us if and when we commit
mistakes in intonation. However audios are good for listening.
 
Hi Harry,

Silver Fox has no right to advise people. So yes, he did cross the line.

Also the reason why westerners take to these jobs is because these jobs do pay well in their respective countries. So it's all about money, and not about dignity of labor and all that.:hand: In India, a fitter is not going to earn as much as a guy does in the west. Hence, the comparison itself is quite ridiculous.

Moreover, what's this constant need for Indians to pick some instance or the other from the west under the pretext of 'learning', 'keeping an open mind', whatever. Pathetic, to say the least.:sing:

Suresh
 
Precisely , that is what Mr.nachhi is talking about
' Hijacking of Threads !"
Everyone needs to be conscious of the relevance of his/her posting to the
Thread where they post !
or else some wrong strings will be pulled and the forum will loose some intellects !
There is a pvt msg facility where anyone can take on one-to-one to satisfy their ego's and establish their supremacy on language , personal beliefs or other minor things !!
In the meantime , Let this e-gurukul be a platform for imparting knowledge to the people who aspire for !!

Thanks and Regards !
 
The importance of the oral tradition is, it is the Sruthi that is being learnt. Sruthi means that which is heard. The one that hear is the devatha called Srothra (representing the ear). It must be heard as it comes from the vaak devatha, a conscious Being that imparts the Sruthi through the sound of the mouth (vaak). Thus there must be the Chaithanyam at both ends. A tape recorder is an inert entity and it cannot be the Guru.
 
Oral tradition....

Dear friends,

Having learnt the basic point that Vedas are taught by the Guru to the
Disciple orally ( through recital ) , the next step is to list the names of
the Veda Patasalas and their locations so that the members of this forum
can either help these Institutions or think of learning the Vedas setting
apart an hour or two per day.

There are Patasalas in Madras - Ahobila Mutt, West Mambalam runs a
school; Sanskrit college, Mylapore, Sri Muralidhara Swamigal's Ashram,
Padappai.
Kanchi Mutt runs a school in Kanchipuram. Sri Ramanashram at Tiruvanna-
-malai, Sri Yogi Ramsuratkumar Ashram at Tiruvannamalai and there are
one or two at Srirangam and Tiruvannaikkaval, Trichy.
 
Oral Traditions of Vedas.

This Thread was started by Sri Nachinarkiniyan to discuss a serious subject the traditions of Vedic learning. But slowly this discussion turned into an arguement and ultimately, I find this entering into entirely different subject "the dignity of Labour"!
 
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