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A love story of a brahmin girl
- Thread starter sumathi ravi
- Start date
- Status
Sow. Sri. Sumathi Ravi said:-
"As you quoted, to be a Brahmin, you need not be a gurukkal or do devasam etc etc.
If you claim that your are a Brahmin or you are a non-brahmin, follow the rules and regulations of the forefathers and lead your life."
Sow. Sumathi, I quoted vaidheega brahmin functions for Visu just as an extreme case. I noticed you skipped the part where I suggested that Visu might not have claimed to be a brahmin in the first place. Unless he claimed to be a brahmin or he gets any benefit as a brahmin (this is where vaidheega performances come in the picture), why should Visu be expected to be a madisanji or even sampradhaaya brahmin? And importantly, why criticise his misgivings? didn't he have any good quality at all?
"As you said, a responible human being cannot just elope with the lover, not keeping in mind the plight of the family.
We are not foreigners. We are Indians. We have to follow certain rules and regulations formulated in society."
Sow. Sumathi, A responsible human being need not elope; but could have put her foot down. Parents threaten children with suicide to get them in line; children can use the same tactics too. A person with a better will wins. By the way, these things have been done. It's a pity Kalyani was neither strong enough nor smart enough.
"We are not foreigners. We are Indians. We have to follow certain rules and regulations formulated in society."
'We' here represent 'girls' I take it. If I am wrong, please let me know. I know one girl who stood against all these rules and regulations in that same middle class society when she was just 17 yrs old. Matter of fact I know few examples. Smart girls get what they like.
"i can say one thing. Wheher brahmin or non brahmin
at any point of time in our life we can never forget our love.
whether we are married, divorced or a widow, but the inner heart lives only with the person whom we loved."
Sow. Sumathi, don't you think it is very important that a girl should marry the person that she loved? on the other hand, how do the girls judge that person? in the lime light of love? How biased do you think woyuld that be? A girl in love should commit her mind only after discussing with elders and experienced persons (not necessarily with parents). Youngsters could make so many wrong judgements.
If a yougster talks with pros and cons about a relationship, any parent would listen. Importantly, youngsters should give time for the parents to adjust to the fact. Why not inform it one year ahead to the parents? Younsters got the habit of informing the parents only when they are about to finalise or just after finalising an alliance. Why should the youungsters put the parents in such a ridiculous situation?
"As you quoted, to be a Brahmin, you need not be a gurukkal or do devasam etc etc.
If you claim that your are a Brahmin or you are a non-brahmin, follow the rules and regulations of the forefathers and lead your life."
Sow. Sumathi, I quoted vaidheega brahmin functions for Visu just as an extreme case. I noticed you skipped the part where I suggested that Visu might not have claimed to be a brahmin in the first place. Unless he claimed to be a brahmin or he gets any benefit as a brahmin (this is where vaidheega performances come in the picture), why should Visu be expected to be a madisanji or even sampradhaaya brahmin? And importantly, why criticise his misgivings? didn't he have any good quality at all?
"As you said, a responible human being cannot just elope with the lover, not keeping in mind the plight of the family.
We are not foreigners. We are Indians. We have to follow certain rules and regulations formulated in society."
Sow. Sumathi, A responsible human being need not elope; but could have put her foot down. Parents threaten children with suicide to get them in line; children can use the same tactics too. A person with a better will wins. By the way, these things have been done. It's a pity Kalyani was neither strong enough nor smart enough.
"We are not foreigners. We are Indians. We have to follow certain rules and regulations formulated in society."
'We' here represent 'girls' I take it. If I am wrong, please let me know. I know one girl who stood against all these rules and regulations in that same middle class society when she was just 17 yrs old. Matter of fact I know few examples. Smart girls get what they like.
"i can say one thing. Wheher brahmin or non brahmin
at any point of time in our life we can never forget our love.
whether we are married, divorced or a widow, but the inner heart lives only with the person whom we loved."
Sow. Sumathi, don't you think it is very important that a girl should marry the person that she loved? on the other hand, how do the girls judge that person? in the lime light of love? How biased do you think woyuld that be? A girl in love should commit her mind only after discussing with elders and experienced persons (not necessarily with parents). Youngsters could make so many wrong judgements.
If a yougster talks with pros and cons about a relationship, any parent would listen. Importantly, youngsters should give time for the parents to adjust to the fact. Why not inform it one year ahead to the parents? Younsters got the habit of informing the parents only when they are about to finalise or just after finalising an alliance. Why should the youungsters put the parents in such a ridiculous situation?
C RAVI
0
Sri Raghy ji,
I feel that certainly there is a fake Brahmin business here...
Visu's behavior as a 'Brahmin' is certainly important in that story.
He knows that he is taking a girl from a strict Brahmin family who wish to marry off their daughter to a Brahmin boy only.
Many of us are not involved in any vaidheega brahmin profession; many of us are not conducting thivasam, amavasya tharpanam or any vaidheega ceremony for others; many of us are not working as sastri or gurukkal in any temple. But still many of us living a Brahmin style of life following the principles to the best of our capacity and refraining ourself from taking non-veg. Does it mean that we are non-brahmins? As well we bear moral responsibility to disclose our belief and life style before marrying a brahmin girl when the boy is at least from a Brahmin family. Moreover Visu as an educated guy working in great America who knows how to respect others and be transparent.
He should have either rejected this proposal or should have declared openly that he don't believe in Poonal and other Brahmin Tradition and he is a meat eater.
He has in fact cheated the girls parents and spoiled the girls life as per the story, which clearly reveals that girl's father wants to marry her off to a Brahmin boy only
I am telling this purely based on the characters of the story and not to target any group of people.
Sri Ravi, what you said are in quotations.
"Many of us are not involved in any vaidheega brahmin profession; many of us are not conducting thivasam, amavasya tharpanam or any vaidheega ceremony for others; many of us are not working as sastri or gurukkal in any temple. But still many of us living a Brahmin style of life following the principles to the best of our capacity and refraining ourself from taking non-veg. Does it mean that we are non-brahmins?"
Sri Ravi, I did not say anything like that. But what is this 'brahmin style?' If dilution can be allowed, why should someone put a cap to it? I am not criticising anybody, but, I humbly request you think about it.
"As well we bear moral responsibility to disclose our belief and life style before marrying a brahmin girl when the boy is at least from a Brahmin family."
What moral responsibility? are you joking? I knew one young gentleman who was an athiest when I met him; he became a commited devotee after 3 years (I had nothing to do with that). People keep evolving, keeps changing. What is there to disclose or hide? No matter what, two persons enter in the relationship as they are; they build from there.
"Moreover Visu as an educated guy working in great America who knows how to respect others and be transparent."
As per the story, Visu did not fail to respect Kalyani. He was transparent. He did nothide from her anything.
"He has in fact cheated the girls parents and spoiled the girls life as per the story, which clearly reveals that girl's father wants to marry her off to a Brahmin boy only"
This is a bit heavy charge against Visu! As per the story, there was no mention of Kalyani's father seeking an orthodox, madisanji brahmin boy for his daughter. Her father did not even require a tee totaler. Hypothetically speaking, what happens if Visu picked up to eating meat, taking up drinking 5 years after the marriage (it is a possibility)? Would Kalyani's father ask Kalyani to divorce him at that stage?
In this story, Kalyani was not happy with her father since she did not allow her to marry Sakhti. Mud slinging against Visu is unnecessary.
"Many of us are not involved in any vaidheega brahmin profession; many of us are not conducting thivasam, amavasya tharpanam or any vaidheega ceremony for others; many of us are not working as sastri or gurukkal in any temple. But still many of us living a Brahmin style of life following the principles to the best of our capacity and refraining ourself from taking non-veg. Does it mean that we are non-brahmins?"
Sri Ravi, I did not say anything like that. But what is this 'brahmin style?' If dilution can be allowed, why should someone put a cap to it? I am not criticising anybody, but, I humbly request you think about it.
"As well we bear moral responsibility to disclose our belief and life style before marrying a brahmin girl when the boy is at least from a Brahmin family."
What moral responsibility? are you joking? I knew one young gentleman who was an athiest when I met him; he became a commited devotee after 3 years (I had nothing to do with that). People keep evolving, keeps changing. What is there to disclose or hide? No matter what, two persons enter in the relationship as they are; they build from there.
"Moreover Visu as an educated guy working in great America who knows how to respect others and be transparent."
As per the story, Visu did not fail to respect Kalyani. He was transparent. He did nothide from her anything.
"He has in fact cheated the girls parents and spoiled the girls life as per the story, which clearly reveals that girl's father wants to marry her off to a Brahmin boy only"
This is a bit heavy charge against Visu! As per the story, there was no mention of Kalyani's father seeking an orthodox, madisanji brahmin boy for his daughter. Her father did not even require a tee totaler. Hypothetically speaking, what happens if Visu picked up to eating meat, taking up drinking 5 years after the marriage (it is a possibility)? Would Kalyani's father ask Kalyani to divorce him at that stage?
In this story, Kalyani was not happy with her father since she did not allow her to marry Sakhti. Mud slinging against Visu is unnecessary.
renu,
cho cute, you and yours feeling the chemistry working on site.
i think this happened to my uncle, who had rejected 18 girls prior to seeing my aunty. (in 1950s). for me, there was no spark on site. i guess some people are lucky.
rvr,
not so sure kalyani was pining for shakti. from the looks of it, she was a good wife, mother, daughter and did what was expected of her, cheerfully and willingly.
but in one deep corner of herself, there was an heartache, born out of love lost, and which never died. we are all humans, and i think, to be fair to kalyan, she did what she 'should' under society's norms, but what she felt was her own little secret. such is life.
raghy, ravi,
i think vasu was an ok guy. nobody expected him to be other than what he was. to his kalyani's he was a brahmin america varan. had shakti been a brahmin there would have been no issue, from the looks of it.
there are people in this forum, who vehemently oppose intercaste marriage as a principle. then there are folks who are more liberal and tolerant, and the vast majority somewhere inbetween.
it takes all types to make up the world. if there is one villain in this story, it is kalyani's dad, but he too might be forgiven, given inthe 1960s the rigours of need to maintain மானம் & கௌரவம்.
i suspect things have changed since then.
thank y'all
cho cute, you and yours feeling the chemistry working on site.
i think this happened to my uncle, who had rejected 18 girls prior to seeing my aunty. (in 1950s). for me, there was no spark on site. i guess some people are lucky.rvr,
not so sure kalyani was pining for shakti. from the looks of it, she was a good wife, mother, daughter and did what was expected of her, cheerfully and willingly.
but in one deep corner of herself, there was an heartache, born out of love lost, and which never died. we are all humans, and i think, to be fair to kalyan, she did what she 'should' under society's norms, but what she felt was her own little secret. such is life.
raghy, ravi,
i think vasu was an ok guy. nobody expected him to be other than what he was. to his kalyani's he was a brahmin america varan. had shakti been a brahmin there would have been no issue, from the looks of it.
there are people in this forum, who vehemently oppose intercaste marriage as a principle. then there are folks who are more liberal and tolerant, and the vast majority somewhere inbetween.
it takes all types to make up the world. if there is one villain in this story, it is kalyani's dad, but he too might be forgiven, given inthe 1960s the rigours of need to maintain மானம் & கௌரவம்.
i suspect things have changed since then.
thank y'all
C RAVI
0
Sri Raghy ji,
Thank you very much to make me understand as how we should consider others (whether disclosed or concealed).
I believe this way no boy or girl need to be transparent with his/her traditional belief and eating habits while seeking alliance from Brahmin families.
Your message would certainly help all eligible bachelors and spinsters to be relieved from exposing themselves before marriage. As it would not make any difference if they change themselves after few years of marriage.
I could not have such smartness to identify myself and consider others.
Thank you so much for enlighting some folks who all were in dilemma to deal with such things.
Thank you very much to make me understand as how we should consider others (whether disclosed or concealed).
I believe this way no boy or girl need to be transparent with his/her traditional belief and eating habits while seeking alliance from Brahmin families.
Your message would certainly help all eligible bachelors and spinsters to be relieved from exposing themselves before marriage. As it would not make any difference if they change themselves after few years of marriage.
I could not have such smartness to identify myself and consider others.
Thank you so much for enlighting some folks who all were in dilemma to deal with such things.
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Vaidheegas, Sastris, Gurukkals are functioning so because they are Brahmins.
I think there is a general belief that one is a Brahmin only if he has something to do with Vaidheega or Agama. A Brahmin is essentially a learned person who can take up any profession not contrary to the principles.
Brahmins refraining from taking non-veg is a different subject that has to be researched and discussed.
It is said by some researchers that Brahmins sacrificed animals in yagnas during Rg-Veda period.
Click here and see this
I do not want to go in detail about that as this is not the place for it, but made this remark with an idea of starting a new thread.
In one's life, this kind of attraction towards another person of opposite sex happens. If it is called love, everyone on this earth must have loved somebody or have been loved by somebody - for a few minutes, for a few hours, for a few days and a few months, without expressing one's feelings openly. It is just an inexplicable attraction. But, if that is perceived as love, the true love has to hang its head in shame.
But, loving someone, marrying someone and again living in one's thoughts with the old sweetheart even after the marriage is something cruel and all the persons responsible for this bizarre behaviour have to take the blame collectively.
Most of us are really selfish (which includes me too) and rarely think of the consequences on others before any major step is taken. We do not evaluate the prons and cons of such step in a dispassionate manner. Our rational thinking will be severely affected and like a horse, we cannot look sideways and backwards. Our thoughts are focused on only one thing, in one direction.
I repeat what I had told earlier -
Love doesn't happen in everyone's life. Similarly, it is not compulsory for everyone to love somebody in their life.
If we meet a friend of the same gender as ours with whom we can share all our intimate thoughts, feelings and crucial moments of our life, we call that relationship as friendship. But, when the same kind of relationship (friendship) happens with a person of opposite sex, why do we conclude it must be love only?
But, loving someone, marrying someone and again living in one's thoughts with the old sweetheart even after the marriage is something cruel and all the persons responsible for this bizarre behaviour have to take the blame collectively.
Most of us are really selfish (which includes me too) and rarely think of the consequences on others before any major step is taken. We do not evaluate the prons and cons of such step in a dispassionate manner. Our rational thinking will be severely affected and like a horse, we cannot look sideways and backwards. Our thoughts are focused on only one thing, in one direction.
I repeat what I had told earlier -
Love doesn't happen in everyone's life. Similarly, it is not compulsory for everyone to love somebody in their life.
If we meet a friend of the same gender as ours with whom we can share all our intimate thoughts, feelings and crucial moments of our life, we call that relationship as friendship. But, when the same kind of relationship (friendship) happens with a person of opposite sex, why do we conclude it must be love only?
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I personally know at least 5 TB girlfriends of mine who married NB boys and the level of compromise is much higher. They were all in love and when you're in love everything is seen through rose-tinted view.
My friend has to cook chicken for her husband and thats no joke. Not when you've never eaten or cooked non-veg in your life. She does acknowledge now that love isn't everything and its very important to know exactly what one is in for. I suppose everything is a trade-off one way or another...
My friend has to cook chicken for her husband and thats no joke. Not when you've never eaten or cooked non-veg in your life. She does acknowledge now that love isn't everything and its very important to know exactly what one is in for. I suppose everything is a trade-off one way or another...
Ms.Amala,
Do you find any link between this storey and your posting in "Please Help"?
Ramanathan.
Do you find any link between this storey and your posting in "Please Help"?
Ramanathan.
amala,
that is why the institution of cutting losses exists, throught the legal framework..
we are humans, and it is only normal that we make mistakes. mistakes are what makes us human.
your friend, could have made the same mistake with a TB boy, and i would not be surprised, that the rate of failure of marriage among 'love marriages' of TB couples is any lower, if Toronto is an example, of the parameters and immaturity with which they enter into the marriage institution.
also, people grow. either couples grow together or grow apart. if they grow apart, then it becomes an issue, and depending on the circumstances, the consequences follow.
the point, that i am trying to make, is that there is no hard and fast rule where marriages are concerned. i personally know of my aunt, who is madisaar pushing on70s, who cleans and cuts chicken for her husband of 50+ years.
to put it mildly, my eyes popped out at the sight of this. but so be it. i know of several TB families in toronto, where the husband or the children eat non veg, and the wife/mother has no pbms cooking such for them.
i personally know a TB (willing) convert to christianity, who cooks non veg for family, but sticks to brahmin food for herself.
amala, what we are, as a community, coming to know, is that forces beyond our control, is ripping apart our insularity. short of living in an isolated island, and cutting off all communications to the outside world, we are unable to check the influences of the foreign winds.
whereas the generations that matured in the early to late 20th century were discerning in their choice of modernization, to the level acceptable to us (& though may not have been to our parents), the generation of today, is proceeding on values, that are uncomfortable to us.
the crux of the issue, again comes back to us, our hangups, our prejudices, and ability to be in-sync with the winds of change. unhappiness in relationship, is no monopoly to same caste or inter caste religion relationships.
it is the compatibility factor between a couple. no matter how much society values can be imposed, ultimately, the husband and wife, have this great job, based on their individual circumstances, the need to adjust. somewhere there if something gives, there needs to be an honourable exit.
thank you.
C RAVI
0
Sri Kunjuppu ji,
Well said....
Falling in true love can not be avoided by any human being.
In that case one compromises with the habits and practices of a partner with ease, provided they don't determine to compel each other.
Some people would be comfortable and some unlucky people would have disappointments.
My only stand is, today's Brahmin boys and Brahmin girls should not voluntarily fall into calculative love with NB's to escape from Brahmin bashing and for some other reasons.
Off course for the sake of Brahmin community. But for one's marriage, individuals are the better judge for their life time and have the liberty to live the way they want.
After all in today’s world no one is bothered about other's life style and preferences. All the families are living in their own life style and belief system which would never be bothered by other families.
I feel personally that, this way any sort of setup focusing on the betterment of Brahmin society would be meaningless. As Hindus we can have such setups to better the society without wasting our time by discussing on Brahmin Shastrams and Sampradayams.
1) Who ever wish to live a non-vaideegham Brahmin life style can just live their life with their own belief and practices.
2) Other Brahmins can live the way they want.
3) Vaidheega Brahmins can have their own set up as long as they could fit well.
Overall I feel that, there seems to be nothing meaningful to work for the social cause based on Cast.
But I strongly believe that, Brahmin boys and Brahmin girls should disclose their life style preferences and eating habits before getting into arrange marriage within the Brahmin community. This is the moral responsibility of every individual.
Well said....
Falling in true love can not be avoided by any human being.
In that case one compromises with the habits and practices of a partner with ease, provided they don't determine to compel each other.
Some people would be comfortable and some unlucky people would have disappointments.
My only stand is, today's Brahmin boys and Brahmin girls should not voluntarily fall into calculative love with NB's to escape from Brahmin bashing and for some other reasons.
Off course for the sake of Brahmin community. But for one's marriage, individuals are the better judge for their life time and have the liberty to live the way they want.
After all in today’s world no one is bothered about other's life style and preferences. All the families are living in their own life style and belief system which would never be bothered by other families.
I feel personally that, this way any sort of setup focusing on the betterment of Brahmin society would be meaningless. As Hindus we can have such setups to better the society without wasting our time by discussing on Brahmin Shastrams and Sampradayams.
1) Who ever wish to live a non-vaideegham Brahmin life style can just live their life with their own belief and practices.
2) Other Brahmins can live the way they want.
3) Vaidheega Brahmins can have their own set up as long as they could fit well.
Overall I feel that, there seems to be nothing meaningful to work for the social cause based on Cast.
But I strongly believe that, Brahmin boys and Brahmin girls should disclose their life style preferences and eating habits before getting into arrange marriage within the Brahmin community. This is the moral responsibility of every individual.
S
siva144
Guest
do not generalize--but it is more happening with TB,a concern
many a time TB girls r found to be more susceptible/enticed to NB boys than TB/B boys--a cine influenced glamor and heroism,
whereas TB boys mostly feel/look for TB girls,[unfortunately TB girls r looking for NB boys!!!]thus ratio is disrupted amongst TB.
TB girls r also pampered by father [than mother]
when too much is expected--'lies' look very glamorous and thus easy to fall into trap,---
hi ravi
,i just could not help putting a smiley with my 'hi', as reading your posts gives me a good feeling. you have an ardent fan in me.
i have highlighted two points -
- this is new to me. TB youths, deliberately seeking NB spouses. i can understand the chemistry of love. also, i guess, NB guys wooing TB girls, that i can understand, ie the concept of trophy wives.
here in north america, it is blonde blue eyed girls - a caricature of a trophy wife e.g. tiger woods' wife.
i agree brahmin bashing can be hurtful. i have not personally been subjected to it. but through a deliberate policy of being shut out of rights and privileges in one's country is demeaning, i think.
probably it will never die. there are no jews in poland anymore, but anti semitism exists as ever. every society needs an object to ridicule and hate. in that context, if someone wants to escape, i can understand.
i think i too escaped, by going far away. and unwilling to face the strictures of our own community.
- i think, during the process of courting couples get to know each other very well. not much you can hide, when you are moving with a person every day.
i see this, from my children and their relationships. what attracts initially is chemistry, but very soon, it develops into compatibility. the couples have the same interests in movies or books, common friends and so on. theoretically, there is little room for surprises in a love marriage.
but i do not how it is done in india. if there is fear of parental disapproval, then many things are hidden. one needs to visit the other's home to understand the person completely.
.. and based on the finding, even if the relationship is strong, if one finds things unacceptable, should have the courage to quit the relationship. i always tell my children, to have the courage to break up, but do so gently, and if possible remain friends afterwards.
As Dr Ramanathan has remarked it could be a case of 'projection'.
Let us not forget these two extremes.
A good love worthy of its name has produced many invincible kings/emperors, great musicians, admirable scholars, poets non pareil, artistes of extra-ordinary talent et al.
On the other hand, a love that is cunning, self-centred and wicked lays a trap for the other innocent person. It has destroyed so many cities and empires, made some civilisations and races extinct, driven many billionaires to penury and insiginificance,
corrupted honest officials, encouraged bribery, theft and extravagance, produced the maximum number of lunatics in every part of the world and was a major cause for countless suicides and existence of fugues.
Why utilise love for cooking non veg and eating it?
A trade off in one's personal life will lead to loss of personal identity and self destruction.
A love that is so strong and positive, must be accommodative from either side, encourage deeper understanding, create happy and healthy families and finally
should not be out of frustration to see some hold in life.
A true love must not ditch the parents who raised us for more than 2 decades. If it cannot convince them and earn their well deserved blessings, it will make one wait for the right opportunity or moment in one's life.
A true love must not renounce one's culture, while embracing another.
A true love shall not ask for sacrifices of one side only.
Let us not forget these two extremes.
A good love worthy of its name has produced many invincible kings/emperors, great musicians, admirable scholars, poets non pareil, artistes of extra-ordinary talent et al.
On the other hand, a love that is cunning, self-centred and wicked lays a trap for the other innocent person. It has destroyed so many cities and empires, made some civilisations and races extinct, driven many billionaires to penury and insiginificance,
corrupted honest officials, encouraged bribery, theft and extravagance, produced the maximum number of lunatics in every part of the world and was a major cause for countless suicides and existence of fugues.
Why utilise love for cooking non veg and eating it?
A trade off in one's personal life will lead to loss of personal identity and self destruction.
A love that is so strong and positive, must be accommodative from either side, encourage deeper understanding, create happy and healthy families and finally
should not be out of frustration to see some hold in life.
A true love must not ditch the parents who raised us for more than 2 decades. If it cannot convince them and earn their well deserved blessings, it will make one wait for the right opportunity or moment in one's life.
A true love must not renounce one's culture, while embracing another.
A true love shall not ask for sacrifices of one side only.
C RAVI
0
I agree with C Raviji about falling in true love and it does extend beyond ethnicity, religion and culture many time let alone caste.
Having said that, when one is in love especially girls, one tends to not think about practical matters like food limitations and all or even about the future. It is better like Raviji said to talk about these things and be accomodating from both sides.
Kunjuppuji : I'm surprised about your madisar clad aunt having to cook chicken for her husband. I totally agree that we as a community cannot continue to be insular anymore and if we do we risk alienating our youth (speaking as one of them) from our elders. Or maybe its the other way round?. I struggle with a lot of these issues and am continually torn apart with regards to personal morality, prejudice and being "liberal". Sometimes unknowing to me I differentiate on caste basis and then feel terribly guilty afterwards. Many times just feeling more comfortable with Brahmins makes me feel like I'm discriminating NB in some way.
Dr Ramanathan: No I don't see a link to my posting in please help. Not a direct one anyway. I can only PM after I've reached 15 posts and will do so to the person I feel can help me in my dilemma. Some one who has been kind and understanding.
Having said that, when one is in love especially girls, one tends to not think about practical matters like food limitations and all or even about the future. It is better like Raviji said to talk about these things and be accomodating from both sides.
Kunjuppuji : I'm surprised about your madisar clad aunt having to cook chicken for her husband. I totally agree that we as a community cannot continue to be insular anymore and if we do we risk alienating our youth (speaking as one of them) from our elders. Or maybe its the other way round?. I struggle with a lot of these issues and am continually torn apart with regards to personal morality, prejudice and being "liberal". Sometimes unknowing to me I differentiate on caste basis and then feel terribly guilty afterwards. Many times just feeling more comfortable with Brahmins makes me feel like I'm discriminating NB in some way.
Dr Ramanathan: No I don't see a link to my posting in please help. Not a direct one anyway. I can only PM after I've reached 15 posts and will do so to the person I feel can help me in my dilemma. Some one who has been kind and understanding.
pann,
not sure what your age is. also not sure whether you have ever been in true love any time.
i have not been fortunate to be in love.
but i have seen youths, boys & girls in love. they go crazy. it is all about giving. i have seen natural 'highs', the smile, the eyes shining and above all you can see the 'energy'!
i think, if you have ever been in love, you will not talk about love like this.
not ever been i love, i can relate to you. but my daughter who is in love, feels that you do not understand 'love'. but she is only 19
not sure what your age is. also not sure whether you have ever been in true love any time.
i have not been fortunate to be in love.
but i have seen youths, boys & girls in love. they go crazy. it is all about giving. i have seen natural 'highs', the smile, the eyes shining and above all you can see the 'energy'!
i think, if you have ever been in love, you will not talk about love like this.
not ever been i love, i can relate to you. but my daughter who is in love, feels that you do not understand 'love'. but she is only 19
amala,
you are surprised!! my eyes popped out when i saw this. she did it cheerfully and as a matter of routine. so, i think she did not consider it a big deal.
my only regret, is that i did not take a photo for posterity. they are both dead now, within a year of each other.
amala, your feelings, are not unlike mine. this is what nara is trying to say, i think. that casteism is so deep rooted in our psyche, that we can never be 'normal' when we are in india.
i am out of india for 37 years and i still wonder if i am condescending towards the NBs, and feel guilty, just as you do now. amala, i don't have the answer, but if you find it, please share it with me.
the good news, is that my children do not know caste. they vaguely know that their parents were born brahmins. they consider themselves hindus, and are proud of that moniker.
my children identify themselves as hindus. but none of the jingoism or ritual bound orthodoxy. to confess, i am much like that, and i think, they take their faith from me. their mother is irreligious.
...... and so we move on.
best wishes.
renuka
Well-known member
Dear Kunjuppu Ji,
I think I can understand the psyche of your aunt.
she was just doing her duty to her husband without being attached to the fruits of her action.
its just like when i was working in a distric hospital in year 2000 (pregnant at that time) so many doctors and nurses used to tell me not to do post mortems during pregnancy and to pass the cases to other doctors.
i still did all the post mortems as my duty.
there is nothing to fear if your mind is focused.
I think I can understand the psyche of your aunt.
she was just doing her duty to her husband without being attached to the fruits of her action.
its just like when i was working in a distric hospital in year 2000 (pregnant at that time) so many doctors and nurses used to tell me not to do post mortems during pregnancy and to pass the cases to other doctors.
i still did all the post mortems as my duty.
there is nothing to fear if your mind is focused.
renu,
i don't know about all that, you being so kind to my aunt.
these folks were super rich and ruled over their grahmam like a fiefdom. rumours of wife swapping and drunken orgy were whispered about in the family gatherings
my aunt probably enjoyed chopping up the chicken, with an expertise achieved through regular practice, though i wonder how come she got to this level. after all, they had an army of servants about in the house - cook, thottakkaaran, vaalikkaaran, maid, driver, gardener et al
but, it was sure a sight, to see a madisar clad elderly lady, chopping a full chicken into pieces with an expertise, bar none. i still get a thrill, whenever i think about it
ps. one note i missed. i saw my aunt's chicken surgery in the u.s. when she was visiting her daughter. howeve, she appeared to do it with such a glee, and on top of it, murmuring how she missed plucking off the feathers like back home ( the u.s chickens come de-feathered in the supermarket), would make, an malayalee chicken plucker to shame
it just shows, that you can choose your friends. but your relatives, they come to you de facto and de jure.
i don't know about all that, you being so kind to my aunt.
these folks were super rich and ruled over their grahmam like a fiefdom. rumours of wife swapping and drunken orgy were whispered about in the family gatherings
my aunt probably enjoyed chopping up the chicken, with an expertise achieved through regular practice, though i wonder how come she got to this level. after all, they had an army of servants about in the house - cook, thottakkaaran, vaalikkaaran, maid, driver, gardener et al
but, it was sure a sight, to see a madisar clad elderly lady, chopping a full chicken into pieces with an expertise, bar none. i still get a thrill, whenever i think about it
ps. one note i missed. i saw my aunt's chicken surgery in the u.s. when she was visiting her daughter. howeve, she appeared to do it with such a glee, and on top of it, murmuring how she missed plucking off the feathers like back home ( the u.s chickens come de-feathered in the supermarket), would make, an malayalee chicken plucker to shame
it just shows, that you can choose your friends. but your relatives, they come to you de facto and de jure.
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tbs
0
hi kunjuppu ji,pann,
not sure what your age is. also not sure whether you have ever been in true love any time.
i have not been fortunate to be in love.
but i have seen youths, boys & girls in love. they go crazy. it is all about giving. i have seen natural 'highs', the smile, the eyes shining and above all you can see the 'energy'!
i think, if you have ever been in love, you will not talk about love like this.
not ever been i love, i can relate to you. but my daughter who is in love, feels that you do not understand 'love'. but she is only 19
i have been in love for more than 10years....initially one sided...later
both sides...even though we are brahmins..only the language
was different....both parents against our love...by force we
separated....duty my army life...i had different life style...
finally got married delhi girl....now we are happy family..
settled east coast of USA...close to toronto..u know
brahmton/scarborrough....life goes on in western life...
now we had snow blizad/very cold chilly weather...
kaaadhal seyvathillai.....but kaadhal thanaga thondrukirathu..
love is beautiful experience...either success or failure...
love is important part of life....
regards
tbs
RVR
0
Sri TBS,
Very good. Now everything is coming out. Hats of to this thread.
I never loved anybody except my inner self till my marriage. Probably my love for inner self continued to some extent even after marriage and it created problem with my wife. Anyway everything is over now and I am having a happy life.
All the best
Very good. Now everything is coming out. Hats of to this thread.
I never loved anybody except my inner self till my marriage. Probably my love for inner self continued to some extent even after marriage and it created problem with my wife. Anyway everything is over now and I am having a happy life.
All the best
C RAVI
0
Sri Uksharma ji,
I am happy to find some of the members here with whom all, my view matches, like yourself, Sri RVR ji, Sri Kunjuppu ji, Sri Pannvalan ji, Sri Happyhindu ji, Dr. Renuka ji....and many...
My posting about true love was to accept myself with the nature's force and share with you all here. We like or not, things are prone to happen in our life for which we may be astonishing with pleasure or grumbling with pain some time in our life resultant to the whole life we lived.
If you would have gone through other postings of mine you could accept that my opinions are in no way contrast to yours.
So far, I was under the impression that www.tamilbrahmins.com is to support our tradition and belief system where we Brahmins can share our knowledge and develop deep understanding, interest and love towards our community and sustain our self as Brahmins to the extent the practical life can offer.
At one time I was surprised to note a post, that made me much upset and I could not come out it even now. It was - "Brahmins just by birth and not being a Vathiyar (priest) or performing Vaideegha Karyam to others, could not be considered to be a true Brahmin."
I personally feel that Brahmins by birth are ture Brahmins and should follow the laid principles to the best of our capacity.
- We may be working in different industries, we many not have time to perform Sandhya Vandhanam every day, females (working or not working) may not be able to isolate themselves during menses time and we many not be in a position to perform Thevasam every year due to our country/place of living.
- But still we can perform some of the basics as Brahmins and keep going.
- There are many adjustments that can be made to compensate what we have missed to do.
- If we could not do Thevasam, we can think of our departed parents and give some offering to other poor people on that day. When ever we could get a chance ( like while in India or when we could find a vathiyar) we can perform the same as Pithru Karyams. Whenever we could get a chance, performing Pithru Karyam at Rameshwaram or Kasi can be great. Even doing such Pithru Karyams at any beach along the sea on a New Moon Day would be fulfilling
- If we don't have temples and arrangements to attend Aavani Avittam functions or could not find a vathiyar to come to home and do for us, than we can do it our self at home referring to the printed//written notes that guides us to do step by step.
- We should not be too calculative and insisting/forcing on Vathiyaars to reduce their fees for performing Vedic Karyams for us. They are the only source of sustaining our true culture and are helping us to be a Brahmin enjoying such rituals. A reasonable demand should be whole heartedly accepted.
- We should not forget that only these Vedic people are required to solemnize one's wedding irrespective of cast.
- We should support them to the level best for the sake of Brahmin community as a whole.
- We can remain strict vegetarians. We can offer non-veg foods to our friends during parties outside home but can go for veg. foods for ourslef and others who love veg. foods. We should agree that there are some NB's who hate non-veg. and eat only veg. We need not to feel embarrassed for not having non-veg. in a gathering. Rather should be proud of following our laid principles, as well for the fact that veg. is a healthy eating habits believed by many.
- We should not go into a calculative love affair with NB in order to get rid of Brahmin bashing and have a life that would not require us to follow Sastrams, kalacharams.
I presumed this site would help us to explore such possibilities and share among ourselves to help us follow our tradition to the best of our capabilities.
Just sharing Sostrams, Shlokams, Mantrams can not be considered as the rich Brahmin culture. These all are common to all cast people as long as one have interest in it.
We should unanimously accept that we Brahmins want to better our life and fulfill our dreams of becoming a Doctor, Lawyer, Engineer, Cheff etc...But if we wish we can remain a Brahmin, refraining our self from eating meat and performing Pitru Karyams to the best level possible. Doing routine pooja or a systematic pooja would allways be one's wish and capacity. These are individual's preferences and possibilities. Still we can consider our self true Brahmins though we are not into Vaideega karyams.
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