A perspective after one year's association with this Forum

[Yamaka]

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At least those who want and work for the extinction of brahmins or have serious disgust and aversion for brahminical literature/traditions/customs/rituals must start a separate anti-tamil-brahmin forum to vent their whatever emotions they have bottled up inside.

I totally disagree.

This is the right Forum to meet all sorts of people... I stay with only the General Discussion Section.. I don't go to Specialized Sections for obvious reasons..

The orthodoxy need NOT come to the General Discussion Section!

Just a thought!

 

[sangom]

I totally disagree.

This is the right Forum to meet all sorts of people... I stay with only the General Discussion Section.. I don't go to Specialized Sections for obvious reasons..

The orthodoxy need NOT come to the General Discussion Section!

Just a thought!

Y,

Unfortunately our SPBs (self proclaimed brahmins) claim exclusive right for themselves in this Forum because it has been named, providentially for them, as TamilBrahmins.com. Being nowhere near to a real brahmin, if these people can show the audacity to claim monopoly over Praveen's website, I think we can understand the heart-burning expressed here time and again in regard to reservation to professional colleges, the main grouse being NBFCs are getting the benefit by obtaining forged caste certificates. If only there was some loophole for our SPBs we may imagine how well they would have claimed monopoly over the possible castes to which they could change and drive out the original people of that caste.

Agnihotram Ramanuja Thathachariar has described how the Tabras on their influx into Tamil land, found the original priests doing pooja "poo sei" (adorn with flowers) in the sanctum of the mud-walled and humble-looking temples of those days, told the poojaris that their method of worship would not please the gods, that they, the brahmins knew the correct and effective method of worship, etc., and obtained permission to enter the sanctum sanctorum. Once inside, they quickly drove out the old poojaris citing lack of aachaaram, suddham, etc., which will anger the god and made them simply sing their old Tamil verses standing outside and that is how we got the Othuvaars.

This tendency of brahmins is not unique to tabras in TN; the tabras in Kerala also gave rise to a Malayalam proverb -

ഒന്നും കാണാതെ പട്ടര് കുളത്തീ ചാടൂല്ല
(onnuṃ kāṇāte paṭṭar kuḷattī cāṭūlla)

A Paattar will not jump into the pond unless he is sure of coming up with something useful to him.

Kunjuppu may know if this is current in Palghat area but up to Trichur, this is current imo.

 

[ShivKC]

This tendency of brahmins is not unique to tabras in TN; the tabras in Kerala also gave rise to a Malayalam proverb -

ഒന്നും കാണാതെ പട്ടര് കുളത്തീ ചാടൂല്ല
(onnuṃ kāṇāte paṭṭar kuḷattī cāṭūlla)

A Paattar will not jump into the pond unless he is sure of coming up with something useful to him.

Kunjuppu may know if this is current in Palghat area but up to Trichur, this is current imo.

a small transliteration error Onnum Kaanathe Kuzhathhe Pattar Chadhuvulla...


cāṭūlla is quite confusion for the one who tries to figure out malayam vide english, unless its Katuvulla means, 'showing, the pond' !!.

 

[Nara]

.... anyways, upon your answer, i will decide to chose for referring it to moderation.

No need to wait ShivKC, go ahead and do what you think you must, don't want for a response from me.

I am not interested in anybody's identity, least of all yours. I am only interested in discussions of topics. But, occasionally when I see bullies going after somebody with grudge and vendetta, I like to standup to them.

You are one such bully, demanded the identity of Happy and questioned her right to post as she is NB. It is only in that context I asked you to come clean with your identity.

It is still not too late, if you can state that Jesus Christ is not your savior and that you reject Jesus is Christ, I will offer unconditional apology. Don't wiggle out by saying you have already answered or that administration knows your identity. Be up front. If you can't do that, lay off my case and I will avoid coming in your way also. Put up or as they say #&#^ *&.

Let me be clear once again, I have no interest in the identity of any member here, least of all yours. Stay away from bullying and we can go about our ways in our separate ways.

 

[ShivKC]

No need to wait ShivKC, go ahead and do what you think you must, don't want for a response from me.

I am not interested in anybody's identity, least of all yours. I am only interested in discussions of topics. But, occasionally when I see bullies going after somebody with grudge and vendetta, I like to standup to them.

You are one such bully, demanded the identity of Happy and questioned her right to post as she is NB. It is only in that context I asked you to come clean with your identity.

It is still not too late, if you can state that Jesus Christ is not your savior and that you reject Jesus is Christ, I will offer unconditional apology. Don't wiggle out by saying you have already answered or that administration knows your identity. Be up front. If you can't do that, lay off my case and I will avoid coming in your way also. Put up or as they say #&#^ *&.

Let me be clear once again, I have no interest in the identity of any member here, least of all yours. Stay away from bullying and we can go about our ways in our separate ways.

I follow him to serve my turn upon him!!

sir, very much you portrayed so long as a guardian for free speech, but when it comes to you, or your group, you had your own yard stick. 'middle finger' event would be quite green for many of our members and further old the issues of you making false unproven allegation that i was behind HH's identity, the once cleared by moderation.

anyways, lets bury the hatchet. but im only apprehensive about your false claim, as an apostle of free speech.

look what you said in this forum on post #35.. "Some here have done that, a Christian who hides behind theism and a doctor who saw BG given duty to flip. These are the bullies, not those who present well researched cogent arguments about ideas and views, nothing personal. "

as a person claiming to be straight, honest , could you please be helpful to the readers out there, in exposing their handle names!.. it must be a simple job for you right!! awaiting..

oh boy! you made an off the collar statement, so you prove it, before i refer for moderation

 

[kkumar29]

Hi all,

I happened to come across this forum about a year back. After hesitating for quite a while after I read Sangom's initial post I decided I will post my perspective. Lot of posters are not going to like what I post and it is very likely there are going to be flames. Let me state at the outset I don't intend to carry on a discussion.

A little bit of my background. I was born into a Smartha family and am married to Roman catholic. I am retired and my children are settled in life after getting very good qualifications and I have grand children with whom I spend most of my time. I believe in God and pray. This prayer could be at a temple, church, mosque or a synagogue. I like the concept of advaita. I also would like to state I have not found the ultimate and wouldn’t know it if I stumbled across it. If I did I wouldn’t be making this post.

To me believing in God or not, following a particular religion or not is an individual's choice. They don't have to justify their stand to anyone. So I find in many threads ,innuendo's directed at people who either follow and don't follow to be childish. In general I find most of the threads that have any longevity morphs into a brahminism vs anti-brahminism argument. The two sides go at it endlessly.

I am considered a brahmin because of my birth. This provides me with some history, background, and culture. There are good things about this lineage and there are bad things. I accept both equally.
In the time I have spent reading posts in this forum two things strike me most.

1. Both sides want to prove the other side wrong and want to assert their side has access to the ultimate truth. The side supporting the brahminism/Brahmins quote scriptures or utterings from elders whom they respect as the ultimate truth and generally exhibit a tendency to indicate that being born a brahmin is something special. This concept the other side calls humbug and rationally tries to prove that it is not so. However when this group posts their arguments there is an underlying current of ridicule, intellectual arrogance in their posts. To me this is hypocritical because most of their posts are knocking down the feeling of superiority from the other side.
2. The rational side are very eloquent and are very good at providing sources for their arguments compared to the religious (again for want of a better name) side who base their arguments on interpretations of the scriptures.

I believe there is going to be no winner. It is that when people want others to follow what they believe, they are looking for confirmation of their own beliefs and need reassurance. This applies to both sides of the argument. If you have found God then there would be no need to convince anyone else and if you don’t believe in God it doesn’t matter what others believe. You will simply shrug it off as superstition.

Posters like Nara, Sangom, Saidevo etc provide good reading material. I have found lot of interesting stuff from their postings that I would not have found otherwise. I wish Sangom, Nara would also quote the good stuff from the scriptures ( I am quite sure there are some). This would make the environment more open and reduce the heat.

All these make interesting reading. I don’t post generally because I have nothing to contribute.

K. Kumar

 

[Nara]

...oh boy! you made an off the collar statement, so you prove it, before i refer for moderation.

Do it, but you still have not answered a direct question, which is an answer in itself.

I am out of this silliness, no more response to you ...

 

[Nara]

kkumar, I know you are not interested in a discussion, I respect that. But I want to offer a couple of clarifications.

Both sides want to prove the other side wrong and want to assert their side has access to the ultimate truth.

I can't speak for others, whichever side they may be on, but speaking for just myself, I can assure you I don't harbor the view that I have access to ultimate truth, that would be self-contradictory to everything I believe in.

I am also not here to establish my views as the real truth. I love certain topics, like religion, society, politics, etc., and enjoy spirited discussions. While I think my views are the correct views, I am also keenly aware I could be wrong and ready to be proved so.

I wish Sangom, Nara would also quote the good stuff from the scriptures

We have both done this. I wrote a long series on Kanninun Siruththambu as faithfully to the text as I could even though I am a confirmed atheist. I also answer anushtanam questions to the extent I have the knowledge even though I don't believe in those anushtanams. Sangom sir has also contributed in both respects. I am sure we will continue to do this to the extent possible.

Cheers!

 

[kkumar29]

Mr. Nara,

Thanks for your clarifications. I meant if you post more of the good stuff then you would have a better chance off getting your views accepted (most of which I agree with by the way), since you would come across as a person interested in knowledge and not simply goading the other side. Criticism is not something that is tolerated by many religious institutions. I do appreciate the information you and Sangom include in your posts. They have been quite informative for me.

Regards,
K. Kumar

 

[tbs]

a small transliteration error Onnum Kaanathe Kuzhathhe Pattar Chadhuvulla...


cāṭūlla is quite confusion for the one who tries to figure out malayam vide english, unless its Katuvulla means, 'showing, the pond' !!.

hi
pattrukku ariyaam valare....enthanaal onnum kaanathe cheyarilla.....pattanil pottanilla.....this is another malayalam proverb.....


regards
tbs

 

[sangom]

hi
pattrukku ariyaam valare....enthanaal onnum kaanathe cheyarilla.....pattanil pottanilla.....this is another malayalam proverb.....


regards
tbs

Shri tbs,

Yes, பட்டரில் பொட்டனில்லா (paṭṭaril poṭṭaṉillā) is also a Malayalam saying. But it means just that no tabra is a fool (poṭṭaṉ), there is no implied meaning even that பட்டன்மார்க்கு அறியாம் வளரெ (paṭṭaṉmārkku aṟiyām vaḷare), as you seem to think. But the earlier one viz., ஒன்னும் காணாதெ பட்டரு குளத்தீ (குளத்தில்) சாடூல்ல (சாடுகில்ல), means that even if a paṭṭar suddenly dives into a pond, he must have seen that there is some chance of selfish gain.

Shiv,
The correct Tamizh version will be ஒன்னும் காணாதெ பட்டரு குளத்தீ (குளத்தில்) சாடூல்ல (சாடுகில்ல).

 

[happyhindu]

When we have accepted to work at office setup, we are required to follow the attire (wear suit), etiquette, possess the requirements and office needs. In the same way, those adhering to vedic system, are supposed to follow the requirements of Sandhya, Gayathri, adorning the attires as requirements. How is latter the supremacy and the former not?

Such requirements were the same for all varnas

Clarification sought please -- When was such requirements (of gayatri, attire, etc) same for all varnas?

, but relaxed as they were involved in serious duties like administration and business.

When were such rules relaxed?

Overtime, people didn't follow except Brahmins, and they were not forced to [by the common authority like in islam] considering them as Free-will.

It dubious to claim that overtime other people did not follow rules except brahmins. It is even more dubious to claim that people were not "forced" when the smrithis are openly clear about "forcing" a man to remain a slave. Please provide some back-up for your claims.

Brahmins were not the central authority in Hinduism.

All hindu kingdoms so far functioned on the basis of dharmashastras; with brahmins as the central authority of the dharmashastras. The smrithis themselves declare that except a brahmin no one else has the right to interpret the shastras.

Gotra system is accepting and following a lineage. If some didnt follow as they intermingled is their own free-will. If following that is considered Supremacy, not following is Selfish. You are bashing the very basic principle of vedic heritage.

How do gotras become a vedic heritage?

Regards.

 

[prasad1]

Are we always talking about a "tradition", when we talk of religion. "Traditions" Change. King Dashratha could have 3 wives, Krishna could have multiple wives, and Droupadi could have multiple Husbands in olden days, that was the tradition. I would not want that tradition even if I could (LOL).

A group head should publicize their "traditions", and people who accept (!!) should join that group.

We all can have our own "tradition", vidhi, custom, religion, heritage or what ever we call it.

 

[drb]

My 2 cents:

Since Praveen's meaning of this forum is being open for any topic and all, in my mind I have come to terms as follows:

1. If I am not in sync with any topic or views by fellow forumers, I would rather politely base my opinion/agreement and leave it as it is. I will not try to 'convince' or change the opposing person's views. I expect the same respect from them as well.
2. If the topic or opinion of others bothers me too much, I just don't visit the topic or read it.

Based on the above 2 principles, I have been (trying to) sane for the past 2 years in this forum.

PS: sometimes it does help to read a contrasting opinion as long as it is polite and courteous. We have to know that fire is hot to touch, we can't just close our eyes and pretend it may be cold. Hence sometimes other views will help one to 'experience' more in life.

 

[tbs]

hi
the " red" letters are only for praveen ji.............i think this " thread " going to end soon....

regards
tbs

 

[drb]

Hello tbs,
Are you referring to me? If so, oops!! sorry. Guess it looks red in your monitors. It was more orange when I chose in mine. I will not use it again.

drb

 

[Yamaka]

hi
the " red" letters are only for praveen ji.............i think this " thread " going to end soon....

regards
tbs

No problem! It's only orange, not RED in my monitor!

-

 

[renuka]

Are we always talking about a "tradition", when we talk of religion. "Traditions" Change. King Dashratha could have 3 wives, Krishna could have multiple wives, and Droupadi could have multiple Husbands in olden days, that was the tradition. I would not want that tradition even if I could (LOL).

A group head should publicize their "traditions", and people who accept (!!) should join that group.

We all can have our own "tradition", vidhi, custom, religion, heritage or what ever we call it.

Hey why not...polyandry combined with polygamy is cool!!!
You get to love more than one and also get more love and there will be a healthy spirit of competition no one will take anyone for granted!!!
Somehow Dwarpara Yuga seemed more fun!! LOL

 

[sangom]

Hey why not...polyandry combined with polygamy is cool!!!
You get to love more than one and also get more love and there will be a healthy spirit of competition no one will take anyone for granted!!!
Somehow Dwarpara Yuga seemed more fun!! LOL

Polyandry and polygamy are nature's basic instincts. But "civilization" at some point faced the problem of children to be taken care of. Since there was no welfare state like the Scandinavian countries then, monandry and, as a price therefor, monogamy were put into practice. I think the composition of Valmiki Ramayana must have happened around this period of social changes.

Now, I feel the Dwaapara yuga benefits are coming into practice because fear of unwanted pregnancy is almost gone, state is becoming more receptive to unwed mothers, infants who have been deserted, etc.

 

[Haridasa Siva]

The orthodoxy need NOT come to the General Discussion Section!

Just a thought!

This is unacceptable (at least to me). How can brahmins be asked not to enter a forum in Tamilbrahmins.com? To me, this thought is outrageous.

I receive anti-brahmin/anti-Hindu posts and posters with rational mind and then apply the Kural in my signature.

 

[Visalakshi Ramani]

Out of all the lovely shades of colors

WHY the orange??? :noidea:

Hello tbs,
Are you referring to me? If so, oops!! sorry. Guess it looks red in your monitors. It was more orange when I chose in mine. I will not use it again.

drb

 

[Visalakshi Ramani]

Prediction??? :decision: Premonition !!!

hi
the " red" letters are only for praveen ji.............i think this " thread " going to end soon....

regards
tbs

 

[Visalakshi Ramani]

Reminds me of those days in the distant past,

when women were denied entry in their own house---

during those three horrible days.

Here everyone is denied entry (or warned to keep off)

if they want to keep in check their sanity and temper!

This is unacceptable (at least to me). How can brahmins be asked not to enter a forum in Tamilbrahmins.com? To me, this thought is outrageous.

I receive anti-brahmin/anti-Hindu posts and posters with rational mind and then apply the Kural in my signature.

 

[sangom]

This is unacceptable (at least to me). How can brahmins be asked not to enter a forum in Tamilbrahmins.com? To me, this thought is outrageous.

I receive anti-brahmin/anti-Hindu posts and posters with rational mind and then apply the Kural in my signature.

Shri Yamaka, Shri Siva,

I believe firmly that the BBs and anti-BBs can have any relevance only in the presence of each other. I , being called a BB (though I myself am not so sure of that) look upon the arguments and tenacity of anti-BB posters like Shri Saidevo as inspiration to me for doing my homework better. Simply one group shouting "There is no God, religion is all b******t." and the opposite party countering with equally noisy "God is everything, Religion is the greatest.", will repel any reader.

 

[Raji Ram]

................ Simply one group shouting "There is no God, religion is all b******t." and the opposite party countering with equally noisy "God is everything, Religion is the greatest.", will repel any reader.

But Sir, I thought these non stop arguments draw more number of readers to this forum!! :target: