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A Wake up call for Tamil Brahmins

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Dear Kunjuppu,

These are really invaluable suggestions for the Tabra boys. But the UPS of tabras has for a long time been academic excellence and so I would like to suggest that the main attention of the Tabra boys and girls should be in the main for the academic side, because, the NBFCs and others are fast catching up with the Tabras in academic excellence. They should also compulsorily devote their attention to participative sports which will promote team spirit in them and also care about grooming and body building. These terms in English may look forbidding to the Tabras who are financially not well-off but in actual fact these may not involve any huge expenses or outlay, imo, from what I have seen my sons do.

I would now request you to give your suggestions for theTabra girls too. I believe today the girls have an edge over the Tabra boys but as the boys become more and more streetsavvy and get better groomed, they may be whisked away increasingly by girls from non-tabra groups and our tabra girls in the lower echelons, who generally have parents with highly conservative outlook, will get marginalized in the job field as also in the marriage market. That's why this request.

Sangom,

You are absolutely correct in that better grooming, body building and team spirted developed through contact sports, are not expensive at all. They need a mindset determination, to pursue, and the rewards are a lifetime of confidence and self assuredness. It is sad to read here, among posts, a (lame) excuse, that tambram boys will feed their brains, and hence have to suffer the consequences of bullying and such. Nothing so far from the truth. The more you develop your body side by side with the brain, the better wholesome the individual becomes.

Re girls? if yaanais had ruled once upon a time, today it is the time for the poonais I guess. Thanks to small families, girls only families, enlightened views of women’s education and opportunites, plentiful high paying jobs suitable for women thanks to their temperament (patience, diligence, due diligence, persistence, hard work, commitment work ethic etc etc.), today in many areas, women are more suitable and more sought after than men. Infact, the very values that have been inculcated in them through generations, and thanks to strong racial memories, today’s girls have the benefit of blending their natural instincts to the requirements of today’s work place. A field like IT, where I am involved, the girl is more suitable for many tasks, which do not require inspiration, but more of methodical meticulousness. It involves patience and forebearance, qualities naturally bestowed to motherhood and subservient wifehood. Ie yesterday’s ‘weakness’ becomes today’s strength.

In the yesteryears, my father, had to marry off 5 nieces, due to family circumstances. With no money, and just by his wit. I am only aware of the humiliations that he had to face. With that still fresh, I enjoy the current satisfaction with today’s girls’ parents have – ie the comfort of subsidizies from their daughters for a comfortable living, promise to being taken care in old age, a ‘demand’ based marriage market for their daughters and above all, hardly any difference in rewards from raising a daughter differing from that of a son. Justice meted out. At last.

For the girls, especially in arranged marriages, I would rather NOT see – demand for equal or better job and salary. It is a fact that many girls are very high achievers, and do exceedingly well. Mathematically it is impossible to find guys who are better off jobwise than the girl – especially taking into consideration, other restrictions like geography and place of work. Next, is age difference – I think girls in their late 20s or early 30s, must be willing to accept boys younger than them. again I am looking at distribution and availability here.

Girls should demand that marriage expenses be borne 50/50. it is the right thing to do. though if the boys are well off , nothing to prevent the boys’s side footing 100% of the bill.

Today’s young tambram wife, needs to educate her new husband, the way, his mother failed to do. ie house husbandry. One needs to list down all the activities in maintaining a home, and divide the labour fairly and equally, so that a house becomes a home, not on the back of the female’s sweat, but by equally loving divison of labour. Ie a true partnership. This, I think, is possible, only if the couple start the life alone, in thani kudhitham. Otherwise, I think, the girl gets the shaft. that is still a sad fact of life, if the mamiyar rules the brood, and looks upon any dirtying of the son's hands as cardinal sin :)
 
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The original intent of the post was to emphasize the importance of hard work and that caste should not be factor in any achievement.

In theory very noble and generally that is the way it should work if there was no bias in decision making. Unfortunately when ever human interface is required bias comes into play. In India the reservation system, corrupt officials, and regional bias comes into play in deciding who will succeed.
 
Dear Friends,The write-up given by afew members above are positive to give incentive & motivation, for the young men / couples who can venture some small business in their areas. I would suggest to the well educated to work-out proposals- Technical, Manufacturing units for items in demand. A group young engineers can try & in the course of 2 to 3 years would learn the gritty-nitty & even assist other entrepreures Brahmin youths.
A.Sriivasan ( Rishikesan )
 
hi
i saw many ventures in business basically BRAHMIN HOTELS in previous generations....many succeeded in hotel industry......many new

chain hotels by modern young generation............we generally prefer white colar job for marriage market....once bank /govt jobs

were high demand marriage market...now IT industry....very limited tried in high risky share market....my 2 cents...

regards
tbs
 
what you suggest is true for every one. There are various funding options available. When people migrate out of their country, you tend to overcome these barriers and achieve success. You got to be bold and think outside of the box.
 
There can never be a decision making without Bias. Especially when it comes inter-personal relationship. No recruitment anywhere in the world is done without bias.

All of us have our own prejudices, pre-conceived notions about people. These play a role in recruiting people.

I can say this as I have experience from both the sides of the table.

Was I fair in my judgment of a candidate? I tried to be. But I am sure there are people (especially among the candidates) who would say that I was biased. We are all human.
 
Talking about trade, there are certain prejudices among us. Some of the communities keep off some of the trades and industries.

The two sectors with the large inhibition factor are leather and liquor. We find hardly any other community other than Muslims being involved in Leather tanning. They have dominated the leather garments industry also, though of late some non-Muslims including Brahmins have entered this industry. Coming to Liquor again many communities keep off. In Kerala you find only the Christians and the Ezhavas dominate the Liquor trade. Brahmins and Muslims never get into this trade.

This kind of inhibitions does make the business field lop sided. Certain trades like Gold Jewellery, edible oils, provision shops are dominated by certain communities.

Money lending is another profession which has a bad name. It is surprising that Tamil Brahmins had taken it up in a big way especially in the southern districts and Kerala. My great grand father was a money lender in addition to being a land lord and a revenue official in charge of collection of taxes. Our ancestral house had a separate entrance for the customers from the thinnai. It led a a room in which a big safe was kept. By my time all that remained was the separate entrance and the big safe.

This kind of inhibitions have to given a go by if we have to exploit the opportunities available.
 
Nachi,
I was going to miss this thread. I do not believe in birth based social system. I have faith in Humanity(still) and believe that we are equal and come from the same root.

As Jaggi vasudev says:
"This non-physical dimension-the very core of who you are, which we can refer to as no-thing or everything-is the basis of all creation. It is the ultimate intelligence that creates, maintains, and destroys all existence.


"You must become willing to transcend your limitations. This willingness is surrender. The only barrier to it is you. If you are willing, who can stop you? So, the sadhana is just to make you willing. Enlightenment is never far away, but to make a person completely willing takes
time because you have layers and layers of resistance. It takes time to work through the resistance, to become absolutely willing. It need not necessarily take time, but generally people do take time."


"Anyone with a little sense can see that all life has definitely come from the same source. So, if we all come from the same source, all of us carry the same energy within us."

But in India the caste politics does not die, and to ignore or pretend as if it does not exist is a mistake. Tamil Brahmin have been suppressed and suffered for long. The old ways are gone, we must forge a new path for those of us who are still stuck in this mess. A lot of TB who have migrated out of TN have prospered by switching to other profession. Even the family of TB who themselves still work as kurukkal, or temple priest have successfully educated their children to take up other profession. I do admit the quota system hurts TB, but being a minority, we can not change that system.

So I do endorse your idea, but it need not only for Brahmins. We run a business finance to support small business, almost on the lines of Grameen Bank. We generally cater to Asian business.
 
Sangom,

You are absolutely correct in that better grooming, body building and team spirted developed through contact sports, are not expensive at all. They need a mindset determination, to pursue, and the rewards are a lifetime of confidence and self assuredness. It is sad to read here, among posts, a (lame) excuse, that tambram boys will feed their brains, and hence have to suffer the consequences of bullying and such. Nothing so far from the truth. The more you develop your body side by side with the brain, the better wholesome the individual becomes.

Re girls? if yaanais had ruled once upon a time, today it is the time for the poonais I guess. Thanks to small families, girls only families, enlightened views of women’s education and opportunites, plentiful high paying jobs suitable for women thanks to their temperament (patience, diligence, due diligence, persistence, hard work, commitment work ethic etc etc.), today in many areas, women are more suitable and more sought after than men. Infact, the very values that have been inculcated in them through generations, and thanks to strong racial memories, today’s girls have the benefit of blending their natural instincts to the requirements of today’s work place. A field like IT, where I am involved, the girl is more suitable for many tasks, which do not require inspiration, but more of methodical meticulousness. It involves patience and forebearance, qualities naturally bestowed to motherhood and subservient wifehood. Ie yesterday’s ‘weakness’ becomes today’s strength.

In the yesteryears, my father, had to marry off 5 nieces, due to family circumstances. With no money, and just by his wit. I am only aware of the humiliations that he had to face. With that still fresh, I enjoy the current satisfaction with today’s girls’ parents have – ie the comfort of subsidizies from their daughters for a comfortable living, promise to being taken care in old age, a ‘demand’ based marriage market for their daughters and above all, hardly any difference in rewards from raising a daughter differing from that of a son. Justice meted out. At last.

For the girls, especially in arranged marriages, I would rather NOT see – demand for equal or better job and salary. It is a fact that many girls are very high achievers, and do exceedingly well. Mathematically it is impossible to find guys who are better off jobwise than the girl – especially taking into consideration, other restrictions like geography and place of work. Next, is age difference – I think girls in their late 20s or early 30s, must be willing to accept boys younger than them. again I am looking at distribution and availability here.

Girls should demand that marriage expenses be borne 50/50. it is the right thing to do. though if the boys are well off , nothing to prevent the boys’s side footing 100% of the bill.

Today’s young tambram wife, needs to educate her new husband, the way, his mother failed to do. ie house husbandry. One needs to list down all the activities in maintaining a home, and divide the labour fairly and equally, so that a house becomes a home, not on the back of the female’s sweat, but by equally loving divison of labour. Ie a true partnership. This, I think, is possible, only if the couple start the life alone, in thani kudhitham. Otherwise, I think, the girl gets the shaft. that is still a sad fact of life, if the mamiyar rules the brood, and looks upon any dirtying of the son's hands as cardinal sin :)

All this is okay but i ask why spend too much on the marriage,have a simple function for relatives and a decent reception for the friends.

Yeah and that part about girls over achieving is the biggest myth,they just achieve as much as the guys,nothing more or less.I think for every girl at the very top,there will be a guy above that as well.

And there are loads of guys who can cook and do stuff and there are those who are willing to live off sandwiches and other stuff.Most of the people keep a maid as well,the only issues comes when there is a kid.

I am tired of this 1950s still existing and the guys still acting chauvinistic.I think it stopped after the guys born after 1970.

I do hate the concept of dowry and all and it keeps going on.And often it is the girl's father who goes over zealous to prove his background.Such a shame.

The real issue is the girl's demands,first they want higher education and salary,second they want intellectual capability,third they want looks.Now this issue is like the classic Reserve Bank Of India syndrome where it has to keep the rates low,exchange rate in a good range as well as the inflation under control.People have to make compromises.

My cousin passed out from XLRI and she is nearing 30 and her list of demans are immense.If u have plans to settle,u have to make up ur mind to make a compromise.I would say Intellect and looks are valid ones,job is not so much.A guy willing to marry a girl making more money will obviously be intelligent enough to handle his ego accordingly.

Or they can go for a dumb guy with a big salary.
 
Dear Friends,The write-up given by afew members above are positive to give incentive & motivation, for the young men / couples who can venture some small business in their areas. I would suggest to the well educated to work-out proposals- Technical, Manufacturing units for items in demand. A group young engineers can try & in the course of 2 to 3 years would learn the gritty-nitty & even assist other entrepreures Brahmin youths.
A.Sriivasan ( Rishikesan )

Well people can use contacts to offer dealership,wholesaling to many capable people but it is not enough if they sit at home and talk nonsense.They have to build their personality.

I feel there should be a website for counselling all kind of problems for Brahmin youth,at every age parents or the people themselves.I am willing to counsel people on anything,if people feel i am good enough.
 
My perspective as business man and not as philanthropy is not limit myself to small section of society. I like to invest in bright ideas, where ever they come from. I understand your concern, and there is definite bias in my decision (good or bad depending on your position).


A purely business relation not for marriage. LOL
 
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The real issue is the girl's demands,first they want higher education and salary,second they want intellectual capability,third they want looks.Now this issue is like the classic Reserve Bank Of India syndrome where it has to keep the rates low,exchange rate in a good range as well as the inflation under control.People have to make compromises.

My cousin passed out from XLRI and she is nearing 30 and her list of demans are immense.If u have plans to settle,u have to make up ur mind to make a compromise.I would say Intellect and looks are valid ones,job is not so much.A guy willing to marry a girl making more money will obviously be intelligent enough to handle his ego accordingly.

Or they can go for a dumb guy with a big salary.

subnat,

the best alternative for your cousin may be, is to fall in louv :) all the rules will fly faster than a speeding bullet :)
 
Rise in Love, fall comes much later

why prasad? why fall? why not wish success? do you have something more to say, based on knowledge? a cryptic comment leaves me with wonderment, as to why you should express a negative statement? quoi?
 
....The real issue is the girl's demands,first they want higher education and salary,second they want intellectual capability,third they want looks..
What is the matter younguns, am I the last one with intellect and good looks, so much so that there was a big line forming in front of my house when I was still available? Now my son is like me, but alas, he is also taken, sorry eligible girls.
 
Dear Sri Nachinarkiniyan,Greetings. I agree with you that success essentially requires enterprise and hardwork. There is no substitute for hardwork and there is no short cut for success.But I fail to understand the objective and purpose of this wake up call to Brahmins in particular. There are successful people and failures in every caste, community and people group.Besides hardwork and enterprise there are so many factors influencing success. Moreover the word success has come to have a relative connotation. What is success to one is not success to another. One common pursuit among Tamil Brahmins is to land in a good job in America and earn in American dollars, to become an American citizen and settle in America. They would even break traditions towards realizing this objective, aim and ambition in life. Many brahmin guys have married American women to become citizens of USA. Some have married women from other communities and religion to realize their dreams. For the Brahmin youth of today, the purpose in life is not to live as Brahmins should and would. In fact they care two hoots about their Brahmin roots and identity. Hardly anyone bothers about conducting Brahmopadesam to their kids. Even if they do, the kids hardly perform sandhyavandhan. In such scenario, I wonder how your clarion call would be responded !!! Almost every brahmin youngster who has landed in a job in America, has compromised with brahmin customs, practices and values, has thrown into the wind all these. They want to walk american, talk american etc etc. Most brahmins who have landed in america have turned non-vegetarians for at least 2 reasons : Vegetarian food is difficult to get and costly; Non-vegetarian food is cheaper, easily available and they like the taste. They hardly know 1 word in sanskrit let alone atleast 1 sloka.There are many more things I can add to the list. I wonder if the Brahmin community would ever exist in a few decades from now.Please ponder over this and provide me your feedback.Regards,Iyer

I do not know which group I belong, I do not have much faith in birth related groups. I follow my personal religion which has some portions of the vast "hinduism".
I do not gain by being part of any caste, or Kootum.
I know some Sanskrit, know some slokas. I am a member of a Temple, part of Geeta group, vegetarian, teetotaler, member of Tamil sangam and here in TB-site.

Having been out of Tamil Nadu for generations, I have different perspective on things. My child is also vegetarian, by choice. My child visits Temples, wears Indian cloths, an excellent cook and proudly proclaims to be of Tamil origin. My child has been to India as a visitor with us almost every other year. My child spent 6 months in India on assignment, and has learnt some passable Hindi while working there. Am I gloating/:high5:
I have seen other Indian children confused about their identity. I guess it is all to be thankful for the grace.

I go to a Swaminarayan group here, I meet there mostly people of Gujarati origin. Some of their forefathers migrated from India 100's of years ago. The children still speak Gujrati, eat vegetarian food, volunteer their time and money for the organization BAAPS. They all participate in Rass & Gurbha, participate in classes, even organize introduction service for their youth. They generally still marry among their participants. Some are businessmen, others are professionals.
 
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I do not know which group I belong, I do not have much faith in birth related groups. I follow my personal religion which has some portions of the vast "hinduism".
I do not gain by being part of any caste, or Kootum.
I know some Sanskrit, know some slokas. I am a member of a Temple, part of Geeta group, vegetarian, teetotaler, member of Tamil sangam and here in TB-site.

Having been out of Tamil Nadu for generations, I have different perspective on things. My child is also vegetarian, by choice. My child visits Temples, wears Indian cloths, an excellent cook and proudly proclaims to be of Tamil origin. My child has been to India as a visitor with us almost every other year. My child spent 6 months in India on assignment, and has learnt some passable Hindi while working there. Am I gloating/:high5:
I have seen other Indian children confused about their identity. I guess it is all to be thankful for the grace.

I go to a Swaminarayan group here, I meet there mostly people of Gujarati origin. Some of their forefathers migrated from India 100's of years ago. The children still speak Gujrati, eat vegetarian food, volunteer their time and money for the organization BAAPS. They all participate in Rass & Gurbha, participate in classes, even organize introduction service for their youth. They generally still marry among their participants. Some are businessmen, others are professionals.

hi prasad
i gave some details abt patel/BAPS in the reconcilation possible thread abt gujarati patel community in USA

regards
tbs
 
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