Anti-corruption movement

[srinikarthik]

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Kunjuppu Sir,

Totally agree, however there is still a lot of time before india becomes tech savvy and gets into internet.

Simle example the IT returns were made online from this year onwards and a messege sent to virtually all mobile subsribers, however in my office itself I had seen half of the populations running after the consultant and paying them money to fill the returns.

Even if the goverment functions are made online the person dependency will not end in india in the near future.

People still pay bills for mobile, electricity etc.. by standing in long queues whereas everything is online.

 

[Iyyarooraan]

Complete elimination of corruption is very difficult. Lack of transparency in Governance is one of the reasons for this malady. People tend to indulge in corrupt activities because of delay in getting things done in Government Offices. It has been found in Bangalore that self assessment of Tax has encouraged honesty among the people. Archaic Laws generate black money and corruption. This should be reviewed periodically. First the word Corruption should have a legal definition in the Statute and any one indulging in the corrupt activity should be punished fast. Fear of law should be instilled in the minds of corrupt people by enhanced severe punishment including confiscation of wealth amassed by them.
The appointment of Lokayukta or Lokpal will not end Corruption, unless our legal system is improved.

Regards,
Brahmanyan,
Bangalore.

I am sorry I missed your post. As I have said earlier you cannot call the honey collector who licks his back hand after delivering you the full pot, is corrupt. Besides, generally our people are lazy and then they become sick even before going to govt offices. Very few people follow up their work sincerely. Just make a few visits to the same person and return after saying "achcha Saheb". He is going to dread the sight of you. But who will kill one's own ego. In some way our laziness also nurtures corruption. This is not just Gandhian way, but a human way. Government is ours and so you cannot become master of it. You have to master this,too, for eliminating corruption.

 

[Iyyarooraan]

Shri Karthik: Post # 26

The online also suddenly goes offline. Many establishments apologize saying " today our system is down " In some cases the recipient does not confirm the receipt of payment. And if it is a case of utility services in such cases, you have more trouble. Above all whatever statistics may say, we have every where square pegs in round holes. After 6 decades we have not got right candidates at right places. It is like a blind man groping in the dark. And this blind man knows how to get extra money! And India marches on!!!

 

[srinikarthik]

Shri Karthik: Post # 26

The online also suddenly goes offline. Many establishments apologize saying " today our system is down " In some cases the recipient does not confirm the receipt of payment. And if it is a case of utility services in such cases, you have more trouble. Above all whatever statistics may say, we have every where square pegs in round holes. After 6 decades we have not got right candidates at right places. It is like a blind man groping in the dark. And this blind man knows how to get extra money! And India marches on!!!

Shri Iyyarooraan,

I agree to the last part of your quote but not the first part. For the past two years I have been paying all the utility bills sitting at home. I have even paid the house tax online. This is india and I do not expect the goverment websites to be like the ones that we have in developed countries but you have the card power. Sites likes Visabill pay, only thing you need to have is the connection no or the allotment no. you can add them to the utility bills just like you mobile bill or your credit card and make the payment online.

The point here is that you save the time to travel to the govt. office and your sweat for standing in the queue for a long time only to find out that the lunch was declared at 1:30 PM instead of the sheduled 2:00 PM.

The best part is I havent gone to the railway station to book tickets ever since the IRCTC site was launched. I agree that it is sometimes offline however this is India and I buy this as a part and Parcel of being a Devloping Country.

I personally hate going to the goverment establishments, but even if I do I ensure that I do not get into a situation where the person on the desk gets a chance to ask a bribe.

 

[Iyyarooraan]

I pray the good luck always runs with you. I agree when it works it does very smoothly. I do not wonder how it works so smoothly in Bengaluru. It is not same outside. I have done smoothly but also lost a couple of thousands through IRCTC. Of course I could have still recovered that sum. But sometimes you need too, too, much patience to get work online. You may be in the know of what made IRCTC to open a site exclusively for agents and exclusive one for ordinary public. It is all in your luck.

 

[srinikarthik]

Shri Iyyarooraan ,

You might find me lucky, perhaps I am however you need to know when to use the sites and when not to. I generally operate the sites post noon. There is less rush on the websites. If you want to book a ticket at 8:00 AM then you will never get through as there is heavy rush for the tatkal ticket booking IMO.

Regarding the refunds through IRCTC, I have also faced problem with the money being charged to the card without the booking, however I call my bank and let them know. They generally reverse the charges.

 

[Iyyarooraan]

I have other problems like power cuts, internet disconnection at its own timing and so on and so forth.

 

[kameshratnam]

Congress is strong in the lok sabha and across various states and the only change will come when we all vote in the year April 2014 until then we have to SHUT UP. This government will not allow anything.
What is required is a revolution and not fasts

 

[N.R.Ranganathan]

Anna Hazare is denied permission to stage his protest. More and more people
are joining the movement now.

People are actively canvassing support from people for this war against corruption.

Latest feedback I got.

 

[sadasivam.sridharan]

For the present UPA Government it is the vinaasa kaalam.So vibhareetha buddhi prevails among all the netas.There is no instance in the history of any country where the government could survive ignoring public sentiment.It is foolish on the part of the government to argue that the people are behind them on all the actions taken to curb Anna Hazare's protest just because they are in power now.

 

[Brahmanyan]

Anna Hazare is denied permission to stage his protest. More and more people
are joining the movement now.

People are actively canvassing support from people for this war against corruption.

Latest feedback I got.

Dear Sri Ranganathan,

The tactless approach of some loud mouths in the ruling combine spoil the peaceful atmosphere and do not know how to solve a real problem, instead they are following the age old repressive tactics of the colonial rulers. Though I do not agree with the coercive methods of Anna Hazare team by demeaning the authority of elected representative in a Parliamentary system adopted by us, I am with them on solving the issue with strong law.

I hope good sense will prevail on the UPA leaders and the PM to take more practical approach in solving the problem.
Regards,
Brahmanyan,
Bangalore.

 

[N.R.Ranganathan]

Sri Brahmanyam sir,

It is quite reasonable to function within the law of the land. I agree. But, sir,
please let us look at the character of these representatives. They are highly
corrupt and have lot of thugs in their payroll to threaten others. They
themselves do not have regard for the law of the land. They are therefore
estopped by their character and conduct to say we will deal with the legal
means since we are elected representatives. Are they truly ? How about the
dubious election of some ministers ?

 

[sangom]

I feel that corruption is ingrained into the Indian psyche, and that too from historical times. Kautilya's "arthasastra" mentions methods to check on the government functionaries, checking on the checkers, and so on till the monarch himself. There is also bribing latent in our (hindu) religion; we try to strike deals with God himself in the guise of நேர்ச்சை or "manouti" as these are called in the north. From the olden days themselves, the various functionaries of the kingdoms had to be "pleased" for getting the required services. In the light of these, I do not think it will be possible for anyone to 'eradicate' corruption from the Indian scene.

Anna Hazare has been found guilty of being corrupt by a Committee and this is a fact that has to be taken into account. I would have appreciated Anna if he first published his explanations with necessary documents to prove his innocence in the light of the Sawant Committee report, and then begun his fast. And, this whole brouhaha is about bringing the PM and the Supreme Court judges within the ambit of the Lokpal Bill. Suppose we have such a Lokpal Act, will it not give rise to eternal adjudication of complaints against these functionaries as well? With everyone under the scrutiny of the Lokpal, what if this "super monarch" himself turns corrupt? What remedy is there for the people?

I, therefore, feel that the people should first bring home to Anna to clear himself of allegations against him, come clean and then give leadership to people for their anti-corruption movement. Perhaps what we may consider now is "nirantarāhāra samaraṃ" (eternal eating struggle).

 

[Yamaka]

Dear Sri Ranganathan,

The tactless approach of some loud mouths in the ruling combine spoil the peaceful atmosphere and do not know how to solve a real problem, instead they are following the age old repressive tactics of the colonial rulers. Though I do not agree with the coercive methods of Anna Hazare team by demeaning the authority of elected representative in a Parliamentary system adopted by us, I am with them on solving the issue with strong law.

I hope good sense will prevail on the UPA leaders and the PM to take more practical approach in solving the problem.
Regards,
Brahmanyan,
Bangalore.

Dear Brahmanyan Sir:

As the PM Dr. Singh said, corruption is a very complex issue practiced at all levels from the bottom to the top..there are very many laws on the books already, most are ignored and not implemented. New stricter Lokpal will not change much.

One recent survey said that nearly 90% of Bangaloreans and 50% of Chennai people will bribe their way up - if the bribe givers are anxious to give bribes, then takers are willing to take it! They cycle continues at all levels with Rs 500 to Rs 500 crores in each transaction!!

Anna Hazare, to me, behaves like a very naive person; he is out there to emotionalize this complex issue and he may cause serious law and order problem stirring up emotions in the capital city. I am afraid he may touch of a "London riot" in New Delhi.

He has the right to oppose Lokpal etc.. but he also has the responsibility to keep the peace and order, if he understands it. I don't know what his REAL motive is... he does not want to be an MP and go to the Parliament and discuss issues.

The real anti-corruption movement must start from bottom-up starting from each and every bribe giver, IMO.

Cheers.

 

[srinikarthik]

Govt is trying to take the same route that it took with Baba Ramdev

Showdown tomorrow: Delhi Police refuse permission for Anna Hazare's indefinite fast - The Times of India

Knives out: Anna Hazare not so clean, say govt & Cong - The Times of India

Anna Hazare rubbishes charges, says they are all false - The Times of India

Sawant says he had held Hazare guilty of corruption - The Times of India

Hazare accuses Congress of vendetta politics - The Times of India

 

[srinikarthik]

Sangom Sir,

Anna Hazare has himself asked the goverment to file an FIR and take actions against him if he is found guilty of corruption. And as a social activist it is only once he has been found corrupt. He has been fighting against corruption in maharashtra all his life. He has gone on fast unto death for several political issues in maharashtra.

Anna Hazare - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I dont get it. The guy is trying to do something good not for him but for the nation. Let us support him instead of falling for the gimmicks by congrees and protesting him. Top people in the nation are behind him. This is my humble request to all members.

The main problem with indians is that they will try to look at everyone with suspicion.

 

[N.R.Ranganathan]

We will debate, we will discuss, we will fire salvos, we will write thesis, we will
give oration, but when it comes to actual participation, the acid test starts.

We will give up all our hope, will start supporting the existing system and will
conclude that this can not be ended or mended.

I had a few friends, who were freedom fighters ( now of course no more ). When
they were studying in college, they used to participate in the freedom struggle
not minding the break in education or arrest or even facing the bullets. They
used to sit in Shivaji park , Mumbai and recall all the episodes of bravery with
elan.

When I see the present lot, I feel sad.

 

[Yamaka]

Anna Hazare has been arrested at his residence: Times of India reported a few minutes ago. He is presented before a Delhi Magistrate as I write now.

What's happening in New Delhi at the Jayaprakash Narain Park?

I hope things are calm and peaceful there.

Wait & watch.

 

[Brahmanyan]

Dear Sri Ranganathan,

I agree with the points raised by you in your posts but that does not give freedom for any one to break the system of Parliamentary democracy accepted by us. I am afraid two wrongs don't make a right. Yes, Anna Hazare is a good person with honest intention to wipe out corruption. But it may not be the same with other people who may start such movements in future.

Then how to approach the problem? It is my view that Anna should have used his influence to gather public opinion against corruption first, instead of demanding a "people's" Lokpal bill. That is the job of Parliament. When the draft Bill is ready for consideration we can submit our views through our Political representatives for a healthy debate in the Parliament. It is not wise of Anna to have rejected the Political class like BJP, and Left Parties from the movement against corruption. Depending only on media support will not help the movement.The recent Radia tapes have exposed that media in our Country is not that free but can be influenced by lobbyist groups.

Unfortunately the present leaders in UPA do not have any leadership quality to lead a large Country like ours. The PM, an ex-bureaucrat, knows only to walk on the beaten track, will find it difficult to face new situations with courage and determination. He and his Home Minister will use the same strong arm tactic that is being used from the days of British Colonial rulers and fail miserably.

Regards,
Brahmanyan,
Bangalore.

 

[Brahmanyan]

Dear Brahmanyan Sir:

As the PM Dr. Singh said, corruption is a very complex issue practiced at all levels from the bottom to the top..there are very many laws on the books already, most are ignored and not implemented. New stricter Lokpal will not change much.

One recent survey said that nearly 90% of Bangaloreans and 50% of Chennai people will bribe their way up - if the bribe givers are anxious to give bribes, then takers are willing to take it! They cycle continues at all levels with Rs 500 to Rs 500 crores in each transaction!!

Anna Hazare, to me, behaves like a very naive person; he is out there to emotionalize this complex issue and he may cause serious law and order problem stirring up emotions in the capital city. I am afraid he may touch of a "London riot" in New Delhi.

He has the right to oppose Lokpal etc.. but he also has the responsibility to keep the peace and order, if he understands it. I don't know what his REAL motive is... he does not want to be an MP and go to the Parliament and discuss issues.

The real anti-corruption movement must start from bottom-up starting from each and every bribe giver, IMO.

Cheers.

Dear Sri "Yamaka",

You have analyzed the problem well and I agree with your views. Yes, the Anti-corruption movement should start from individual level. The bribe takers in Government departments, have a method of breaking the anti corrupt by procrastination and delay in affording sanctions required. This can be obviated by transparency in governance. In Karnataka the Chief Minister S.M.Krishna took some good decisions in that direction during his regime.
Corruption at the top level is done with at most care by the Politicians and bureaucrats, it would take many years to prove the charges or punish the wrong doers.

Regards,
Brahmanyan,
Bangalore.

 

[sadasivam.sridharan]

The Central Government by taking harsh measures like laying down unreasonable conditions to conduct protest,imposing prohibitory orders, arresting Anna etc. is unwittingly playing into the hands of Anna and his team.The public anger is aroused many fold and the situation is gradually going out of control of the law enforcing authorities and the Government is in a fix.The only way to come out of this predicament is for the government to soften its stand, instead of taking an egoistic approach and invite the agitating team for another round of sincere and meaningful dialogue.

 

[sangom]

Despite whatever good qualities Anna has, I still feel that he should have first cleared himself of all the strictures made by an ex-justice of the Supreme Court. Having given all his information and explanation, in the paper, in the web, etc., as also submitted those papers to the appropriate Court (I don't know if this is possible; if it is not, Anna could have addressed it to the PM and the President of India.)

Instead Anna, to me, seems to be using his popular support he has, to "confront" the GOI. This to me appears a subtle manoeuvre to oppose the strictures by Sawant Committee with the popular support which he (Anna)has secured through the anti-corruption campaign. Somehow, this tactic does not give me the impression that Anna is a true Gandhian.

We should also recall the uprising which happened under JP's leadership. Despite whatever emotional outbursts were witnessed then, this nation has gone back since to square one, and, if we consider the 2G and other scams now, may be much more than the "proverbial square one" and has bested its previous corruption records. That is why I wrote "I feel that corruption is ingrained into the Indian psyche" here.

 

[H.Krishnamurthy]

Dear Kunjuppu sir,
Though I agree with you on several of your thread , this I tottally diagree bcoz Little development what Karnataka have seen in past 40 odd years is during Yediyurappa's regime.
Am not comparing present status with that of Niingappa or Kadidal manjappa or Mr. Kengal Hanumanthaiah prior to 1970.
Fine your argument says BJP or NDA have involved in corruption yes it is true other wise there was no survival for the party .
You just tell me How many of us have voted BJP or erstwile The Jansangh when they were not corrupted. No we never voted them.

Corruption in Congress started during the great Nehru's regime and people continued. Ofcourse it was to a lower level and it has reached the Sky.

Please go thru the History of Insurence sector immediatly after Independence , the death of Firoz Gandhi etc. It was corruption corruption every where.

You must have read about L.N. Mishra the Railway minister and the way in which he was thrown out.

Please read about Nagarwala Scam in 70's and Harshad Mehta in 90's.

Am sure BJP or any other party need another 100 years to reach that level of corruption.

 

[vsubbu48]

Despite whatever good qualities Anna has, I still feel that he should have first cleared himself of all the strictures made by an ex-justice of the Supreme Court. Having given all his information and explanation, in the paper, in the web, etc., as also submitted those papers to the appropriate Court (I don't know if this is possible; if it is not, Anna could have addressed it to the PM and the President of India.)

Instead Anna, to me, seems to be using his popular support he has, to "confront" the GOI. This to me appears a subtle manoeuvre to oppose the strictures by Sawant Committee with the popular support which he (Anna)has secured through the anti-corruption campaign. Somehow, this tactic does not give me the impression that Anna is a true Gandhian.

There seems to be a lot of misinformation about the charges of corruption against Anna. About Rs 2 lacs were spent on Anna's birthday celebration by the NGO run by him pending receipt of donation of a similar amount from a Pune based industrialist. The donation was received within two months of the birthday celebration. Justice Sawant pointed out this as an irregularity but the political class in Maharashtra turned it into a corruption charge against Anna as they were weary of his exposures. Even recently Justice Sawant in a TV channel interview has confirmed that there was no corruption charge against Anna. Whether we support Anna or not, at least let us not denigrate him.

 

[vsubbu48]

This is what I mentioned in post no 8.