Are Not Tamil Brahmins Tamilians ?

[KAUNDINYA]

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Nobody in Andhra Pradesh will say that a Telugu-speaking Brahmin is not a Telugu. In fact N.T.Rama Rao, founder of theTelugu Desam Party & former CM of AP & a KAMMA NAIDU by caste, was thrilled when Telugu Brahmin P.V.Narasimha Rao became the Prime Minister of India & called the latter "TELUGU BIDDA". When P.V.N.Rao contested the Lok Sabha election from the Kurnool constituency in AP as a Congress candidate, N.T.R. did not field his party's candidate against P.V. so as to facilitate a Teluguvaadu's election to the L.S.& his continuation as the PM of India. When V.V.Giri, another Telugu Brahmin, became the President of India, many non-Brahmin Andhras felt elated.

In Karnataka, the Kannada chauvinist VAATAAL NAGARAJ, a non-Brahmin & the President of the anti-Tamil "KANNADA CHALUVALIGARU" Party, described not only former Brahmin CMs of Karnataka GUNDU RAO & RAMAKRISHNA HEGDE as KANNADIGAS, but also called Jayalalitha a "KANNADATHI". No Kannadiga ever says that Kannada Brahmins are not Kannadigas.

In Kerala, not only Nambudiri Brahmins but even Tamil-speaking Iyers who have settled down in Kerala are regarded as Malayalees. Tamil-speaking ROWTHER MUSLIMS who have settled down in Kerala are also accepted as Malayalees.

It is only in Tamil Nadu that Brahmins who speak Tamil at home & think in Tamil are not accepted as "Thamizhar" because of narrow caste interests & consequent blind hatred. They accept even Telugu, Kannada & Urdu-speaking non-Brahmins as Tamilians but will not accept Tamil Brahmins as Tamilians!!! Of course exceptions are there. Naamakkal Kavignar Ramalingam Pillai, a Tamil poet & freedom-fighter, wrote a book entitled "AARIYARAAVADHU DRAAVIDARAAVADHU" in which he had championed the cause of Tamil Brahmins."Thamizh Thendral" THIRU.VI.KA., a Vellala Mudaliar & a Tamil scholar, has opined that all Tamil-speaking people, whether they are Aryans or Dravidians, are Tamilians & regarding Tamil Brahmins as aliens and non-Tamilians will only lead to the destruction of Tamil society.

North Indian Brahmins too are accepted as Hindiwallahs, Bengalis, Gujaratis, Oriyas, Marathis,etc., in their respective states.

:violin:

 

[silverfox]

Dear Kaundinya:

I posed this very question in http://www.tamilnation.org/ and they agreed that all regardless of their caste who spoke Tamil are Tamilians.
I suspect that the Brahmins were not included in being a Tamilian because of the hooliganistic and opportunistic jerks.

The problem is not with educated people but with the masses. They are being manipulated by these corrupt politicians who are nothing but demagogues and Prevaricators.

 

[gopi]

i am not bramin

hello my friends,

i am gopi from canada, i am not a bramin but i always wished i was. is that okay? am i still allowed on this site?
i tell all my friends i am because i feel bramin even though i was not born a bramin and i feel that is okay.
i know others who have done this as well to marry girls here.
thank you, nice website.

 

[silverfox]

Hi Gopi from Canada,
You are most welcome on this website and to participate and voice your opinions openly. In fact, we have a few who are not Brahmins. We only ask you not to use profane or insulting language; otherwise, you are at liberty to disagree or voice a different point of view. Even though this site was started for the advancement and help of Brahmins, (due to what is happening in Tamil Nadu), we DO NOT advocate supremacy of one caste over the others.

Your statement that you wished you were a brahmin, moved us all and we were humbled. We should be so lucky! A true Brahmin prays for the welfare of all human beings and living creatures. We wish you good luck! I hope everybody agree with me!
Peace on earth! Om Shanthi!

 

[NARAS]

The Present chief minister of tmilnadu - is a great intellect- do you know how? he has studied upto 3rd standard. (what a qualifcation for a cm.) he says as brahmins are aryans who migrated to india from cenral asia, they are not tamils.(even if this migration is true, even the people who would have seen it will not speak about it with so much authority). However, sonia gandhi who migrated from italy and adopted citizenship only out of compulsion and not choice is not only an indian according to these 'ratiopnalists' , but these 'rationalists' even tried to make her pm. her mother tongue italian is not even recognized as a language in the indian consitution.Do you know that according to darwin theory, all of us originated from monkeys? science also says that the ist monkeys originated from africa. so al of us are children of african monkeys including me, you, Dr. KARUNANIDHI, Ms. SONIA. OK .

 

[rxrajamo]

Aryan - Dravidian myth

This Aryan vs Dravidian theory is one of the best lies that have been repeated over and over again by DK/DMK people and is a good example of how a blatant lie is being regarded as a fact. Of course, they did not invent this (no surprises ). Maxmuller did it for them.

Let us see what other historians say about this. According to historian Wheeler (in his "Civilization of Indus Valley and Beyond"), "..the[Aryan Invasion] cannot be proved and may be quite incorrect".Also, Murrow in his book "The Sanskrit Language" comments, " For the Indo-Aryan invasion of India no direct evidence is available... In the text of the Rig Veda itself, although historical allusionsare not uncommon, there is no reference anywhere to the fact of the migration, nor any definite indication that it was still remembered."

Now let us examine what our DK/DMK friends are always fond of quoting, "Kal thonri man thontra kalathay mun thonri mootha kudi" and as a proof of the ancient Tamil civilization they always quote literary works like Silapadhikaram. They agree that Silapadhikaram is one of the oldest Tamizh works. Silapadhikaram has a number of references of Hindu gods and saints. I am giving a small example below. This is from "Arengatru Kaadhai" from "Puhaar Gaandam".






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The rough translations for the first two lines "The sage who lives in the heavenly mountains (refers to Sage Agasthiya) who cursed Indra whose son"

So Silapadhikaram which was written thousands of years ago (atleast a couple of thousands as per our DK/DMK friends) refers to Agasthiya and Indhra who according to them are Aryans.

Let us take Tholkappiyam which is supposed to have been written even before than that (as per some DK/DMK friends it was written in 1500 BC). Panamparanar who wrote the Tholkappiya Payiram says

"Nilamtharu Thiruvin Pandiyan Avaiyathu
Arangarai Navin NANMARAI Murriya
Athankottu Asarku Ariltaba Therindu
Manka Marabin Eluthumurai katti
Malkunir Varaippin IYINTHIRAM Niraintha
THOLKAPPIYAN Enath than peyar Thorrip
Palpugal Niruththa Padimaiyone "

Tholkappiyar refers to NaanMarai (four vedas) and even mentions Mariyor (Brahmins) in his Tholkappiyam.

What does this all prove ? The Aryan invasion is a myth. A myth conjured by European historians and readily gobbled up by our friends to say Brahmins are not Tamilians.

Why all this ? Let us see what Dr.Ambedkar, whom the DK/DMK friends never tire of quoting said about the Aryan/Dravidian issue

"“The Vedas do not know any such race as the Aryan race. There is no evidence in the Vedas of any invasion of India by the Aryan race…There is no evidence to show that the distinction between Aryans, Dasas and Dasyus was a racial distinction. The Vedas do not support the contention that the Aryans were different in colour from the Dasas…From this it follows that if the Brahmins are Aryans the Untouchables are also Aryans. If the Brahmins are Dravidians, the Untouchables are also Dravidians."

Also let us not forget all the services rendered by Brahmins throughout ages for Tamil. All the false propaganda our friends are doing will end soon. All we have to do is unite and place the facts before the people.

 

[silverfox]

Dear Ramki:
An excellent writeup with some research done as basis! Too bad, the Tamil fonts didn't come thru!
It is all well and good that we get together amongst us and expose these lies and innuendos; but what good is going to come out of these deliberations?
In my humble opinion, we should either start a magazine and publish these facts and figures; or, perhaps we could request Mr. Cho to give us some space each week in his magazine. I am told he has a weekly magazine.
Sounds far-fetched?

 

[Chintana]

To supplement please check:

http://www.vedanet.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=56&Itemid=2

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aryan_invasion_theory

Aryan invasion of India has seriously been questioned in the West too. But of course our people are not interested in that (except the select few in forums such as ours).

Can a society survive on hatred and untruth for long? I wonder.

I fear for the future of TN and India in some ways.

Dear Ramki:
An excellent writeup with some research done as basis! Too bad, the Tamil fonts didn't come thru!
It is all well and good that we get together amongst us and expose these lies and innuendos; but what good is going to come out of these deliberations?
In my humble opinion, we should either start a magazine and publish these facts and figures; or, perhaps we could request Mr. Cho to give us some space each week in his magazine. I am told he has a weekly magazine.
Sounds far-fetched?

 

[NARAS]

'father' Periyar

I Cannot Underestand Why The Late Periyar Was Called As 'father' Any Significance For This?

 

[silverfox]

Hi Suresh:
When they called him 'father periyar', they probably meant it as a metaphor; not literally!

Do you know what the real irony is? In Tamilnation.org there was a list of 20th century greatest Tamilians - EVR is one of them. I sent them a question asking them how EVR could be considered a Tamilian when his mother-tongue was Telugu; they never responded.

In the 1950's, when EVR and his hooligans were going around breaking the idols of Rama, Krishna, Ganesha and putting 'chappal-malais' on idols, everybody stood, watched and did nothing . If it were done to any Christian symbol or Muslim symbol, they would have cut up EVR to pieces. The Hindus just stood there and watched. Of course, he targeted the Brahmins and nobody cared. As a boy growing up in India at the time, I was terrified to go out on the streets; they used to harrass Brahmin women, cut off the sacred threads and cut off their tufts. Even the government did nothing to stop them.

 

[rxrajamo]

Siverfox

I beleive Periyar's mother tongue was Kannada.

As per our politicians, breaking Hindu idols or desecrating Hindu gods is secular. Doing it against any other religion is communal.

Ramki

 

[NARAS]

'father ' Periyar

SIR - There is no problem with calling the periar as father or the periar being an illiterate. it is the quality of his politics which is problematic

 

[Chintana]

Hi All,

I am not a fan of Periyar myself.

But I think we should save our annoyance for more constructive issues and use our anger as a constructive energy.

I think he was called Thanthai because he headed a movement which became the Justice Party.

Discussing his infertility, I think is a personal attack, which we probably should stay away from.

As to his education, not many people during his time period were educated anyway. So we should leave it alone.

What we should focus on is the lack of response from the Brahmin community and find out a way to raise our voices without putting ourselves in danger.

Hi Silver Fox And Everybody- I Know Its A Metaphor Not Literal To Call Periyar 'father'. But He Was A Rationalist- That Is What He Called Himself By That Standard To Call A Person Who Could Not Produce Any Offspring In Spite Of 2 Marriages Is Certainly Not A 'rational' . Should Not Metaphors Also Be Rational ? Ok?

Of Course I Agree With What Rest U Said. Ramsamy Periyar Was An Illiterate. So His Speeches, Actions Will Definitely Not Be Of A High Class. Surprisingly Even Some Educated Persons Use The Teachings Of The Illiterate 'father' . Its Like Rain Water Mixing With Dirty Water.

With Regards

 

[rxrajamo]

Well articulated Chintana. Let us refrain from commenting on anyone's pesonal lives or attacking anyone pesonally. Let us channelize all our energies and focus on positive actions to help the community.

 

[silverfox]

Exactly my sentiments, Ramki and Chintana

I personally believe that we, Brahmins, are polite, civil, respect other people, no matter what the other side is throwing at you! We can voice our opposition without resorting to the same tactics; let us not get down to their level of mud-throwing.
As Chintana and Ramki are saying, we could channalize our anger in a positive way.
Speaking of mud-throwing, the following article by one Mr. Thangavelu in TamilNation (2001), "Brahmins and the Eelamists" caught my eye. It is amazing how much hatred this man has for Brahmins; he faults everything on them, including their opposition to Eelam!! And I read somewhere that there are no Brahmins in Sri Lanka! I thought you guys might find it interesting to read!

http://www.ambedkar.org/News/hl/Brahmins and Eelamists.htm

 

[rxrajamo]

Interesting read Silverfox. As I mentioned yesterday, Maxmueller the father of the Aryan invasion theory these guys cling to, dated the RigVeda to be around 1000 BC. I gave the example of Silapadhikaram, Tholkappiyam etc which are much older than that mentioning the vedas and Aryan gods. We can easily discern the truth. BTW I am posting a couple of interesting links.

http://www.newstodaynet.com/2006sud/06mar/0803ss1.htm
http://www.tamilnation.org/caste/hart.pdf

Good reading

 

[silverfox]

Dear Ramki:
Thank you so much for that article; what an eye-opener and expose' on a charlatan like Mr. E.V. Ramasamy Naicker!! It is amazing that the majority of the people of Tamil Nadu are not aware of these findings. I wish Mr. Venkatesan's book was publicized in great detail by the media; I would love to buy 100,000 copies and distribute it freely to the public, just to show the hypocricy of this so-called 'periyar' (ha!). I was appalled to read that Mr. EVR actually despised Tamil language!! To think, the fools who followed EVR were praising him to be a stalwart of Tamil ...... it is mind-boggling!!
Ramki, is it possible for any of us to get a copy of Mr. Venkatesan's book in Tamil?
Ramki, you have done a fantastic job in unearthing this! Bravo, man!

 

[NARAS]

'father' Periyar

SIR- I Agree That To Make A Public Issue Out Of A Persons Infertility Is Not Fair. But What Is Wrong In Commenting About Ones Literacy, Education Etc.?

Recenty The T.n. Govt Repealed The Anti Conversion Law. Because They Say It Is Against Rights Of Minorities. The Irony Is That The Founder Of D K Periyar Had Abused That Propagating Religion Is Barbaric.(even Though Indian Constitution Says That Propagting Religion Is A Fundamental Right) But Now Their Followers Dmk Are Sayingthat Propogating Conversions Is The Rights Of Minorities.(even The Constitution Does Not Say That. Evensupreme Court Has Said That Propagating Conversions Is Not A Fundamental Right)

So Much So Far Rationalism.

The T.n.govt Which Banned Da Vinci Code Saying That It Hurts Christian Sentiments Did Not Ban Kamalahaasans Avvaishanmugi Which Was Almost Like A Blue Film. As Afar As I Know, The Censor Rules Say That Anyfilm Which Potrays Any Caste, Community, Language Or Religion In An Objectionable Manner Shall Not Be Certified. Then How S That Film Potraying Brahmins In Objectionable Manner(even Women) In All Ways Are Passed By Censor Board? Are Censor Board Members Ignorantof Laws? Or Are They Being Bribed? Only God Knows.

With Regard, N. Suresh

 

[JSIyengar]

Guys: I'm getting enlightened and enriched by the day. Good job folks and please keep this coming.

JS

Hi Suresh:
When they called him 'father periyar', they probably meant it as a metaphor; not literally!

Do you know what the real irony is? In Tamilnation.org there was a list of 20th century greatest Tamilians - EVR is one of them. I sent them a question asking them how EVR could be considered a Tamilian when his mother-tongue was Telugu; they never responded.

In the 1950's, when EVR and his hooligans were going around breaking the idols of Rama, Krishna, Ganesha and putting 'chappal-malais' on idols, everybody stood, watched and did nothing . If it were done to any Christian symbol or Muslim symbol, they would have cut up EVR to pieces. The Hindus just stood there and watched. Of course, he targeted the Brahmins and nobody cared. As a boy growing up in India at the time, I was terrified to go out on the streets; they used to harrass Brahmin women, cut off the sacred threads and cut off their tufts. Even the government did nothing to stop them.

 

[NARAS]

Are not Tamil Brahmins Tamilians

another irony about the late periyar. the one excuse he offered for abusing brahmins was that he himself personally saw and heard brahmins committing atrocities against non brahmins. but during british rule the british committed more atrocities aginst non brahmins than brahmins(e.g. jallianwallah bagh, killing of kodi kaatha kumaran, torture of v.o.c., kamaraj, gandhji and so many). so why he did not oppose the british? fear? or was he bribed by the british?

 

[NARAS]

reservations and POTA

the central govt repealed 'Pota' LAW IN 2004 ON THE excuse that it was being used to harass muslims. the withdrawal of POTA has finally culminated in mumbai bombings. hundred of inncocent indians have died. i think the govt must bring back the law in some form soon.

about reservations it s being said that brahmins are all against reservations. that is wrong. i think all brahmins are pro - reservationists like me. you know how? brahmins are all demanding 100% RESERVATION FOR MERIT IN ALL CATEGORIES ALL OVER INDIA. O.K.?

 

[NARAS]

'father' periyar

there is lot of stench emanating fromthe secular non brahmin toilet. why dont they clean it first before abusing the brahmins.

 

[KAUNDINYA]

EVR, the so-called Periyar, was a KANNADIGA & NOT A TELUGU. He was a KANNADA-SPEAKING BALIJA NAIDU. His ancestors had migrated from Karnataka. Of course there are Telugu-speaking Balija Naidus. MDMK Chief VAIKO, ACTRESS SRI DEVI & ACTOR & CHIEF OF "DMDK" VIJAYAKANTH are all Telugu-speaking Naidus.
Why did not EVR go to his native state Karnataka & campaign against the Kannada Brahmins there ? Why did he single out Tamil Brahmins for spreading venom ? Sir T.M.Nair, a member of the Justice Party which was the mother of EVR's DK, campaigned against Tamil Brahmins but he never campaigned against the Nambudiri Brahmins of Kerala. Similarly Sir Thyagaraya Setty (after whom T.NAGAR of Madras has been named), PANAGAL RAJA (after whom Panagal Park of Madras has been named) & other Teluguvadus spread venom against Tamil Brahmins but never carried back their hate-campaign to Andhra Pradesh.
Another interesting fact is that it was DR.H.S.BHAT, former Head of the Urology Department of the CMC Hospital, Vellore & A KANNADA BRAHMIN, who saved the life of EVR by operating on him !!! The DK fellows organised a "PAARAATTU VIZHA" at Vellore for Dr.H.S.Bhat & gave him a "PORKIZHI" for saving the life of their mentor. K.VEERAMANI (YADAV),the present chief of the DK, never refers to a Brahmin without calling him a "PAAPPAAN" but he never disclosed Dr.H.S.Bhat's caste when he wrote about the latter in a Tamil magazine owned by M.Natarajan, husband of Jayalalitha's friend Sasikala.In that article Veeramani gratefully remembered Dr.H.S.Bhat's service to his "dear" leader EVR but of course without disclosing Dr.H.S.Bhat's caste!!! So much for the magnanimity of Veeramani Yadav!!!
Of course the Theory of Aryan Invasion of India was floated by the wily British to divide & rule over the Indians & Max Muller, who is often mistaken to be a friend of Hindus & India, was a hireling of the British. But no western historian has ever said that Brahmins are the only Aryans. According to them Kshatriyas & Vaisyas are also Aryans. Some say that there were Sudras also among Aryans. According to one western historian, it is only PUNJABIS who have the maximum Aryan blood,i.e.,60% Aryan blood & even they have 40% Dravidian & HUN blood. If this is the case with the "Aryan" North India, how can there be pure Aryans in South India?
A voluminous book entitled "THAMIZHAGA ANDHANAR VARALAARU" (in 2 volumes) has been published recently stating all the facts against the Theory of Aryan Invasion of India,

 

[silverfox]

Wow! Kaundinya! Thank you for that excellent background and history of EVR and others. You know what really gets me peeved? The Brahmins of Tamil Nadu are the TRUE Tamilians; their mother-tongue is Tamil whereas guys like EVR, Vaiko and others' mother-tongue is not Tamil. Yet, these people come into Tamil Nadu and have been abusing us!!

I would love to know why they pick on the Tamil Nadu Brahmins but not the Kannada, Telugu or Malayalee Brahmins? After all, Dravidian means all the four southern States!

 

[NARAS]

Hinduism Vs Rest

OTHER NEWS- Dr. sivaji's statue has been erected at a huge cost to tax payers money. some dmk men are now calling the place as sivaji beach instead of gandhi beach. is it fair? is it true that t.n.govt is going to install statues of kamalahaasan, rajinikant etc., at tax payers money?

the present cm of t.n. says not to believe in hinduism, not to smear ash on forehead, not to meet sankaraacharya etc. according to him these are all practices violating principles(!) of dmk. but he has never said not to drink, not to smoke, not to eat meat etc.m- are these practices in conformity with principles(?) of dmk.

in hinduism fasting is very significant. when you fast you punish yourselvs in a rational way. thus you tell to god that i hv now punished myself for sins i, my family members mayhave committed inthis, previous births. so please do not punish myself, my family members more.

bye bye - will come back later