Are We As Good as We Think We Are?

[renuka]

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Yesterday I happened to drive by a place where I saw a man in drunken state..he was walking about aimlessly singing some song and was laughing to himself.


For a short while I thought "Alcohol lowers social inhibition and one may act in a less inhibited manner sometimes even aggressive or totally outrageous"


I was wondering if a test can be conducted by testing the effects of alcohol on a conservative person who is known to be good.

Ok just say we take Mr X who is known to be good and soft spoken and load him up with alcohol and then show him videos that can provoke him and watch his vital signs respond.

I am sure the Mr nice guy Mr X would get easily angry and be not so nice anymore and if anyone provokes him further there is also a risk that he might get violent.

Now also under the influence of alcohol even the most decent of females when aroused might succumb to a sexual encounter(I am not talking about rape here)

What I am trying to point out here is..all these tendencies are actually inherent in us..to get angry..to get violent..to be promiscuous etc..but its becos of our Viveka we are able to avoid all these situations but when alcohol lowers inhibitions we might tend to be otherwise.

So the question is "if we were actually good to start with..why are even these tendencies actually latent in us..lying dormant to sprout when the situation is conducive? So are we actually as good as we think we are? or are we actually just well camouflaged individuals?"

 

[krish44]

all human beings have some good and bad in them even during normal times .

if we appeal to his good sense , the good part of him will come into play .if circumstances are created like oppertunity , alcohol or provocation , the beast part can take over and cause damage . it is also not gender dependant.

what we call viveka is end trait based on education , family background , what is right and wrong drilled into us and upheld thru law and society we live in

man if left totally out of bounds of law and societys norms is likely to be a freer individual exercising his own choices . sometimes these choices may make people feel his actions are beast like

 

[renuka]

all human beings have some good and bad in them even during normal times .

if we appeal to his good sense , the good part of him will come into play .if circumstances are created like oppertunity , alcohol or provocation , the beast part can take over and cause damage . it is also not gender dependant.

what we call viveka is end trait based on education , family background , what is right and wrong drilled into us and upheld thru law and society we live in

man if left totally out of bounds of law and societys norms is likely to be a freer individual exercising his own choices . sometimes these choices may make people feel his actions are beast like

Agreed..but as long as these tendencies are latent in us and even if we do not "misbehave" due to Viveka and cultural conditioning we still cant call ourselves as "good" isnt it?

None of us have really tested ourselves in the true sense...what lies hidden deep beneath our subconscious we ourselves do not know....so from where do we actually get the confidence to think that we are better than anyone else or we are so called "good"?

If we keep this in mind that we really do not even know ourselves we wont dare think of judging another and rather live and let live

 

[krish44]

Agreed..but as long as these tendencies are latent in us and even if we do not "misbehave" due to Viveka and cultural conditioning we still cant call ourselves as "good" isnt it?

None of us have really tested ourselves in the true sense...what lies hidden deep beneath our subconscious we ourselves do not know....so from where do we actually get the confidence to think that we are better than anyone else or we are so called "good"?

If we keep this in mind that we really do not even know ourselves we wont dare think of judging another and rather live and let live

Definitely do we boast we are good.

we need not get confidence that we are totally good . what for do you require this confidence for
. we know we are capable of mostly being good and we know also that we are capable of being not so good if it comes to that if pushed to the wall and we are desperate and we get an oppertunity

In addition we might also not know -what lies deep inside our subconscious -we might even be terrible beasts .under some circumstances

as for judging others , I take the position , I take people at face value and depending on what they do , act . If they keep repeating a negative act , I shrug off reducing my contact with him and move on to others . It is a large world with a lot of humans . With some on same wave length we will develop good relationships .Others ignore and carry on

 

[Raji Ram]

Dear Renu,

Humans are social animals! The good and bad are taught by our parents and they advise us to take the righteous path, always.

But as we grow as adults and start taking decisions ourselves, we tend to disobey the path shown by the parents. The 'So what?'

attitude will spoil the mind to do wrong deeds but the doer will always argue that no one can say it as right or wrong. That is why

we find that some people from very traditional families do not follow their ancestors.

For example, a girl from a very orthodox and traditional family (our extended family member) separated from her husband for very

silly reasons and argues that it is none of anyone's business to interfere in her life! The funny part is that she stays with her parents,
goes for work, makes huge money and saves ALL for herself! opcorn: Parents and grandparents keep :tape: !

According to a few family members, she is doing wrong where as some others support her decision!
P.S: The horse without bridle will :llama:...

 

[renuka]

For example, a girl from a very orthodox and traditional family (our extended family member) separated from her husband for very

silly reasons and argues that it is none of anyone's business to interfere in her life! The funny part is that she stays with her parents,
goes for work, makes huge money and saves ALL for herself! opcorn: Parents and grandparents keep :tape: !

According to a few family members, she is doing wrong where as some others support her decision!
...

Dear RR ji,

May be there is a reason which she cant disclose and hence does not want anyone to interfere..but at least her parents could advise her remarriage since she is not planning to go back to her husband.

 

[krish44]

Dear RR ji,

May be there is a reason which she cant disclose and hence does not want anyone to interfere..but at least her parents could advise her remarriage since she is not planning to go back to her husband.

Rji
You are an incorrigible optimist

for many once bitten twice shy
.
it may take years for some to recover from events such as separation

of course it is sad if it has happened in a traditional marriage arranged by elders in the family .It sucks in two families into the muddle

broken engagements are easier to get over

marriage is a different ball game

more than the person who has separated , the parents suffer more . they think of the future of the girl if they are old .

society is changing . she will find a good human being she will relate to better

I had one like this in my extended family with marriage lasting just a month both in twenties .arbitration by both parents did not help

but a few years later both remarried and the girl from our family who was hurt has been happily married for last twenty five plus years . I understand the boy who got married again is also equally happy .sometimes it is fate . nothing wrong with both parties . the parents were not mature enough and were guilty of going to the brink of separation

times have changed . people are more receptive to remarriage . in olden days , ladies suffered when they had to put up with all atrocities in marriage . girls families would not support a girl who gets victimised .when incompatibilty is predominant it is wise to move away from it. it is a large world . all will get a better chance to live again .

you know it better than others . you are far ahead of your times .

 

[renuka]

Rji
You are an incorrigible optimist

for many once bitten twice shy
.
it may take years for some to recover from events such as separation

of course it is sad if it has happened in a traditional marriage arranged by elders in the family .It sucks in two families into the muddle

broken engagements are easier to get over

marriage is a different ball game

more than the person who has separated , the parents suffer more . they think of the future of the girl if they are old .

society is changing . she will find a good human being she will relate to better

I had one like this in my extended family with marriage lasting just a month both in twenties .arbitration by both parents did not help

but a few years later both remarried and the girl from our family who was hurt has been happily married for last twenty five plus years . I understand the boy who got married again is also equally happy .sometimes it is fate . nothing wrong with both parties . the parents were not mature enough and were guilty of going to the brink of separation

times have changed . people are more receptive to remarriage . in olden days , ladies suffered when they had to put up with all atrocities in marriage . girls families would not support a girl who gets victimised .when incompatibilty is predominant it is wise to move away from it. it is a large world . all will get a better chance to live again .

you know it better than others . you are far ahead of your times .

Dear Krish ji,

I have a female relative whose arranged marriage was annulled by the court!

I was the one who suggested remarriage for her and no one was supporting my views and each person was telling me to give her time to recover etc.

I told her if you give yourself time you will lose the interest in marriage cos you would build a pattern of staying on your own and become bitter in life.

So I told her family to start looking for mappillais right away but everyone was scared that the 1st marriage with a perfect horoscope match itself did not work out and they were scared to try looking again in case the 2nd one also does not work out.

Then I suggested to get into the dating scene via facebook or dating sites and everyone was "OMG we are conservative..no way etc"

So it has been years and no one did anything and she seems to have got used to being alone and now everyone is asking me to help look for a mappillai.

So you see one has to strike when the iron is hot..no use waiting and waiting and then cry!

 

[Raji Ram]

....... May be there is a reason which she cant disclose and hence does not want anyone to interfere..but at least her parents could advise her remarriage since she is not planning to go back to her husband.

Dear Renu,

Whether any reason could be disclosed or not is a different issue! The younger generation does not want even the parents

to give any advice. What makes me worried is that if she wanted to lead a life without interference of anyone, why was she

not brave enough to say NO to the arranged marriage and opted to search for herself? It appears to me that she treats her

parents and grandparents as if they are born to serve her for ever! :sad:

 

[K.Kannan]

There is a reference to an anecdote linked to Appayya Dikshitar. He wanted to put him into a test. He asked his sishyas to monitor him when he is under the influence of a coction made from Umaththangaai which is said to cause unmaththa (madness ) in a peerson. It is said that slokas emnatedff rom his mouth in that intoxicated state full of praise for Lord Siva. after sometime when Appayya Dikshitar came back to senses due to the adminitration of an antidote which he himself had suggested to his Sishyas, he felt happy that his mind is always dwelling on Siva.

K.Kannan

 

[Raji Ram]

We have to try to be good and helpful to others always, to give some meaning to our lives. Selfish motive will often creep up

because the attitude of survival of the fittest is there in human blood! There is a phrase in Tamil 'vAzhvAngu vAzhvadhu' which

means 'lead a life in the way in which it is to be led'. So, if we strive hard, we will be :angel: to many!

 

[renuka]

Dear Renu,

Whether any reason could be disclosed or not is a different issue! The younger generation does not want even the parents

to give any advice. What makes me worried is that if she wanted to lead a life without interference of anyone, why was she

not brave enough to say NO to the arranged marriage and opted to search for herself? It appears to me that she treats her

parents and grandparents as if they are born to serve her for ever! :sad:

Dear RR ji,

No one knows why her marriage did not work out.

But what do you expect her to do? Stay all alone? Isn't she safer staying with her parents instead of being all alone in a country that does not respect divorcees or women who are separated from husband?

At least staying with her parents some safety is there for her and no man can take advantage of her.

May be the marriage did not work out for reasons only known after marriage and not before marriage..so what can she do?

BTW how are we so sure the older generation give good advice?

I know a person who gives such wrong advice to her daughters just becos her sisters marriage failed and this lady has painted such a picture that all men are bad etc and the daughters are still not married till now.

Older females who have had bitter marriages etc tend to think all marriages of others will be like theirs and sow seeds of discord in young girls marriages too.

So the best is we decide what suits us the best.

 

[krish44]

Dear Krish ji,

I have a female relative whose arranged marriage was annulled by the court!

I was the one who suggested remarriage for her and no one was supporting my views and each person was telling me to give her time to recover etc.

I told her if you give yourself time you will lose the interest in marriage cos you would build a pattern of staying on your own and become bitter in life.

So I told her family to start looking for mappillais right away but everyone was scared that the 1st marriage with a perfect horoscope match itself did not work out and they were scared to try looking again in case the 2nd one also does not work out.

Then I suggested to get into the dating scene via facebook or dating sites and everyone was "OMG we are conservative..no way etc"

So it has been years and no one did anything and she seems to have got used to being alone and now everyone is asking me to help look for a mappillai.

So you see one has to strike when the iron is hot..no use waiting and waiting and then cry!

in my family , the parents were told to step aside and a very senior person -great grand parent of the girl took over the matter and got the girl married off after couple of years .In joint big family there are people with this kind of wisdom . some of the oldies were ahead of their times.in early eighties when this happened , brahmin society was still conservative.

It is never to late . It is only a matter of trying with your wisdom. you will collect a good match. there are a lot of enlightened people .of course you can put horoscopes away and try for mana porutham between people not worrying about castes and sub castes.there are good human beings with decent values who will come forward .people can relate to each other as human beings and make a decent partnership .

 

[renuka]

in my family , the parents were told to step aside and a very senior person -great grand parent of the girl took over the matter and got the girl married off after couple of years .In joint big family there are people with this kind of wisdom . some of the oldies were ahead of their times.in early eighties when this happened , brahmin society was still conservative.

It is never to late . It is only a matter of trying with your wisdom. you will collect a good match. there are a lot of enlightened people .of course you can put horoscopes away and try for mana porutham between people not worrying about castes and sub castes.there are good human beings with decent values who will come forward .people can relate to each other as human beings and make a decent partnership .

You would be surprised to know the divorcees here are more particular about horoscope and for remarriage they want even more match!LOL

I was thinking real idiots they are..as it is the 1st marriage did not work out even though the horoscopes matched they still have faith to look into horoscope again.

Caste too is still a concern..pure breeds of any kind always seek similar caste.

 

[Raji Ram]

Dear Renu,

No one is as good as they appear to be! Humans are like 'kadavuL pAdhi; mirugam pAdhi'! :angel: + :evil:

This 'pAdhi' should mean 'a part' and not 50% exactly! So, more percentage of :angel: makes one good

and more percentage of :evil: makes one bad.

P.S: Whom we brand as 'idiots' might brand us the same way, right? :decision:

 

[krish44]

Dear RR ji,

No one knows why her marriage did not work out.

But what do you expect her to do? Stay all alone? Isn't she safer staying with her parents instead of being all alone in a country that does not respect divorcees or women who are separated from husband?

At least staying with her parents some safety is there for her and no man can take advantage of her.

May be the marriage did not work out for reasons only known after marriage and not before marriage..so what can she do?

BTW how are we so sure the older generation give good advice?

I know a person who gives such wrong advice to her daughters just becos her sisters marriage failed and this lady has painted such a picture that all men are bad etc and the daughters are still not married till now.

Older females who have had bitter marriages etc tend to think all marriages of others will be like theirs and sow seeds of discord in young girls marriages too.

So the best is we decide what suits us the best.

many daughters not marrying because one daughter had a unhappy marriage or got separated is very common in many families
. the parents start fearing outcome of further marriages because of one failure .then some one in larger family has to intervene and decide for these people .
the decision making process comes to a dead halt . sometimes if the parents pass away , another person of younger age generation takes over and cleans the mess.
or other girls make their own choices and get married . some simply carry on and remain unmarried for life.
it depends on how each family functions . the clans have interesting ways of operating . they operate in fits and starts . there is no cohesive thinking or planning .There are only disjointed responses to anything .
most dread the word decide . best is to move unilaterally , make commitments after consulting only the girl involved and implement . most in such families are looking for a leader who will take risks and get things done . if such a person emerges , they will hand over the issue to him to resolve and be happy

 

[Raji Ram]

When someone need help from me when I have lack of energy or no time to spare, I get annoyed and think, 'Am I their slave?

Why should I help them when so many family members are there?'. Then my dad's words will flash in my mind. He used to say,

'Be happy if people take you for granted. It means that they have so much trust in your abilities!'.

So, this advice will take me back to my good nature.

 

[krish44]

When someone need help from me when I have lack of energy or no time to spare, I get annoyed and think, 'Am I their slave?

Why should I help them when so many family members are there?'. Then my dad's words will flash in my mind. He used to say,

'Be happy if people take you for granted. It means that they have so much trust in your abilities!'.

So, this advice will take me back to my good nature.

in family there are some performers and many non performers . so those who have the drive have to carry others .

it would be wise to not consider this as exploitative .

I always take it as one more challenge .

many times they are afraid of deciding because of fear of failure and seek out someone who think

meets their requirements when they approach for intervention.

It is definitely a compliment to your talent and drive .some of them will silently bless you and may not say it .

leadership often goes to those who can perform without rewards but as a challenge .

it would be nice to spare time for the extended family and friends who are in difficulties for various reasons. the happiness of accomplishments is also a motivating factor .

 

[rishikesan]

The topic started by Dr. Renuka , is hypothtic & as a Doctor she may like to do some research on the inner / inborn nature of any person at any age, wherever he/ she may live is bound to spring, may be good things or unexpected acts not expected of him/ her. However, as the proverb goes --the qualities getting solidified up to the age of 5 goes on till death. But one thing is certain, that is only if real opportunities come up , then only it can known, whether that dirty nature become prominent & expose his inner bad quality Vs the one he was till then ?
I feel, it is not worthwhile to discuss more on this.\
But I really enjoyed reading all the comments by our learned veterans. The Topic has turned to Ist/ 2nd Marriage & so on, which are so much prevalent , each one case would be TYPICAL.

Rishikesan

 

[renuka]

When someone need help from me when I have lack of energy or no time to spare, I get annoyed and think, 'Am I their slave?

Why should I help them when so many family members are there?'. Then my dad's words will flash in my mind. He used to say,

'Be happy if people take you for granted. It means that they have so much trust in your abilities!'.

So, this advice will take me back to my good nature.

Dear RR ji,


That way we both differ..when someone asks me any help...firstly I start to think:

1)What type of help is it?

2)If I dont help him/her would that person be able to cope?

3)Can I ask someone else to help that person?

4)Is the person deserving for help?



If the answers to the above questions are met then I will help.

If not I will politely suggest an alternative.

So at the beginning of anything there wont be any reaction from me..after going thru all these questions in my mind then I will make my decision..cos help has to be rendered to the right person at the right place and at the right time.

 

[dhikshita]

Yesterday I happened to drive by a place where I saw a man in drunken state..he was walking about aimlessly singing some song and was laughing to himself.


For a short while I thought "Alcohol lowers social inhibition and one may act in a less inhibited manner sometimes even aggressive or totally outrageous"


I was wondering if a test can be conducted by testing the effects of alcohol on a conservative person who is known to be good.

Ok just say we take Mr X who is known to be good and soft spoken and load him up with alcohol and then show him videos that can provoke him and watch his vital signs respond.

I am sure the Mr nice guy Mr X would get easily angry and be not so nice anymore and if anyone provokes him further there is also a risk that he might get violent.

Now also under the influence of alcohol even the most decent of females when aroused might succumb to a sexual encounter(I am not talking about rape here)

What I am trying to point out here is..all these tendencies are actually inherent in us..to get angry..to get violent..to be promiscuous etc..but its becos of our Viveka we are able to avoid all these situations but when alcohol lowers inhibitions we might tend to be otherwise.

So the question is "if we were actually good to start with..why are even these tendencies actually latent in us..lying dormant to sprout when the situation is conducive? So are we actually as good as we think we are? or are we actually just well camouflaged individuals?"

Doctor Madam,

No, not at all, as written by you.

"Alcohol lowers social inhibition and one may act in a less inhibited manner sometimes even aggressive or totally outrageous"
we are actually just well camouflaged individuals as said in man proposes, God disposes.

 

[Raji Ram]

Dear RR ji,


That way we both differ..when someone asks me any help...firstly I start to think:

1)What type of help is it?

2)If I dont help him/her would that person be able to cope?

3)Can I ask someone else to help that person?

4)Is the person deserving for help?............

Dear Renu,

1. No one will approach me without a reason!

2. Sometimes I too think like this till my dad's words ring in my ears!

3. I never do this.

4. Only with the hope of getting help, people approach me!
So, no thought about deserving or not! :decision:

 

[krish44]

Dear Renu,

1. No one will approach me without a reason!

2. Sometimes I too think like this till my dad's words ring in my ears!

3. I never do this.

4. Only with the hope of getting help, people approach me!
So, no thought about deserving or not! :decision:

what works best is -not think too much about who is asking or analysing his motivation

do first something about it and worry later about minor issues of consequences or morality of action

many times land into trouble for acting without thinking as I think most are deserving as far as help is concerned

also if someone has approached me ,he must be a dope to do that and he is trusting my judgement .

my ego gets a huge boost and I am in top of the world

my impulses could land me into a jam sometime or other

hence I am busy collecting people these days who will stand bail for me .lol

 

[renuka]

what works best is -not think too much about who is asking or analysing his motivation

do first something about it and worry later about minor issues of consequences or morality of action

many times land into trouble for acting without thinking as I think most are deserving as far as help is concerned

also if someone has approached me ,he must be a dope to do that and he is trusting my judgement .

my ego gets a huge boost and I am in top of the world

my impulses could land me into a jam sometime or other

hence I am busy collecting people these days who will stand bail for me .lol

Ok I will give an example if anyone of you would actually help such a situation.

A person known to me was in her car with her 2 kids and a dog accidentally ran across the road and she could not stop on time ..hit the dog and the dog died!

Ok she then calls me and asks me a favor if I could just check her kids to see if they are fine.

I said Ok..then I checked them and they were all ok..I did not charge them cos I know them well and its nothing much too cos there was no injury.

Then she asks me a favor "could you please help me claim some insurance?"

I was "what?? For what?.no injury..your car is also fine?"

She said just write that we have some minor injuries so that I can claim some money.

I told her "No..in fact may be I should go check the dead dogs canine family to see if they want to sue you for running over their family member and killing it"

She left quietly without saying anything.

Now tell me..who will render such help?

 

[renuka]

Dear Krish ji,


That way I can be blunt..I only render help for those I feel are deserving and not trying to take advantage of my kindness and position.

This extends even to relatives..sometimes some relatives call to ask me if I could give them a day off sick leave cos they have to attend some function etc.. I wont mince my words..I will just tell them 'sick leave is only for sick individuals..if you want to go for a function..use your annual leave..if you have used up your annual leave..take no pay leave..if that is still not possible..just go to work"

So now no one asks me anything cos they know I dont bend rules.