Are we getting extinct? What is the contribution of movies towards that?

[kunjuppu]

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okay,

here is a comment lifted from the web. the author is known to me, and is reflecting the views, i can confirm of mrs K - who once during a visit to chennai, a few years ago, on her own, ventured to visit the nearby sangeetha's for breakfast. and was surprised, though unperturbed, by the sight of a single woman, dining alone. nobody bothered her though...

Being a woman in (most parts of)India (based on conversations with many women)

Patriarchy and learned helplessness

Every time I return to india as a visitor to my middle class moorings I have the experience of stepping into a box my activities constrained as a result of my role as a daughter/daughter in law who must live by norms that I would scoff at, back in Canada. An important aspect of this is the lack of access to a car for me to drive around in, to wherever I chose to go. The other is curfew time established by safety wary relatives of how long a respectable woman can stay out. There is also my own tremendous sense of guilt over any self indulgence - a deviation from the "self sacrificing woman" that I and all women here are expected to be. Even at home, sleeping-in is out of question as is an early morning walk on my own before the sun comes up. Reading the paper, when I should be helping in the kitchen, is frowned upon and indulging in pastimes other than plain old TV watching or other forms of domesticity does not endear one to relatives. I am a visitor and I forbear, even though often disappointed that I have to temper my expectations of what i can do during my vacation here due to overprotective family members looking out for me at all times.."you don't know about this city - call me when you get to your destination and let me know how long you will be gone"

For those middle and lower middle class women living here, a career offers a legitimate reason for bucking their traditional role as purveyors of home and hearth but it is only accepted if it is financially necessary. If it is not perceived as being so, then her life can be made difficult with expectations that she fulfill her role in the home as nurturer and be there for her children as the attentive parent, tending to their every need, while holding her full-time job. With life being as difficult as it is with infrastructural and transportation challenges most women live circumscribed within a limited sphere of existence and come to accept their lot in a state of learned helplessness. The systems of patriarchy and of the real material bases of their lives conspire together to keep them there. It is only within this sphere is she validated. Even when she has a chance to venture out she fears, based on her past experience, that the censure and related consequences will dire be enough for it to not be worthwhile.

 

[sarang]

GRADUATE STUDENT: A 1975 picture of V. Ramakrishnan. 'I often joke,' the Nobel laureate says, 'that if I had graduate students like me, I'd fire them!'. PHOTO COURTESY: V. RAMAKRISHNAN

​

 

[renuka]

venky

an interesting piece of biodata about venky, nobel laureate.

this is part of his nobel speech... two paras which i paste here

It was during this time that I met Vera Rosenberry, who was majoring in painting and was introduced to me by mutual friends because, unusually for the early 1970s in Ohio, we were both vegetarian. After an intermittent courtship that lasted only 11 months in total, we were married in 1975. She has been my companion and friend ever since, and has not only done most of the work of raising our children but uprooted herself many times to move with me all over the USA and to England. The emotional support and stable home environment she provided has been invaluable to me and my work. During that time, in addition to painting, she also became a children's book writer and illustrator, and has published over 30 books.

After my marriage at the age of 23, I was suddenly no longer alone but had a wife and a five-year-old stepdaughter, Tanya Kapka. This sudden change in my responsibilities made me realise that I had to get on with my career. I produced a passable thesis in the next year and obtained a Ph.D. in physics in 1976 just a month before our son Raman was born. But by that time I had already decided I was going to switch to biology.


it is interesting, that venky married someone at 23, who was likely older than him, who already had a child 5 years old, in or out of wedlock it does not say, and irrelevant, and who has been his consistent supporter and anchor during his journey to nobel.

a couple of thoughts crossed my mind. how many of us, parents of 23 year olds, would have accepted a marriage like this. especially with a older woman, with a 5 year old child. would we have disowned our son? what venky's parents did, he does not say, but the fact that he openly acknowledges his step daughter to the whole world, indicates a warm heart and generosity.

i am quite sure, venky would be aware of the reaction to such, among his co-tambrams, who would consider this a scar or simply that he had not mentioned this at all.

apparently it did venky good. for, as he says, it gave him the necessary stability and returned his focus from an inexplicable drift. this marriage to an older woman. i have always felt, that in many instances, where the boys are immature and ignorant to handle life, the big toxic mix, is for them to marry a younger woman, equally immature. an older woman, with a little more experience, i feel, would be a better fit.

i have seen quite a few love marriages, where the age differences is from a few months to a few years, and the woman being the older spouse. excellent marriages 100%.

maybe, our tambram girls, might want to look at our own guys, younger than them. not only would they be more virile, but also willing to be led and moulded into good husbands and better still, true partners.

Kunjs..I am not surprised cos the woman he married is a Non Indian.
When Indian guys marry out of their race..then no rules apply.
Age no bar,Virginity status no bar,Parity status(number of children) no bar.Horoscope matching no bar.
Most important point is these guys will somehow make their parents agree!!

All rules and regulations apply only for the Indian Hindu female.

 

[kalyankumar]

Hi Kalyan Sir,


Your concern about the way Tambrams are depicted in films and serials is a genuine one and has to be addressed. This thought has also occurred to me several times...


The accusation that Tambram girls nowadays marrying other caste boys may also be true. AFAIK, I don't have any idea about ic marriages, whether they work or not, but I think the reason behind this trend may be entirely different. Always the custodians of culture and traditions have been the middle-class, as the rich feel they are 'above' the culture and traditions and the poor are left to worry about their daily bread. So as always nowadays if we keenly observe there are two types of brahmins boys in the matrimonial sector - one highly affluent, foreign educated , working in foreign countries and the like and the other - poor brahmin boys left to be in vaidheegam, or any other temple priest and the like. So naturally a middle-class Tambram girl, say after her college/ working of the like cannot and will not marry a vaidheega, priest brahmin and at the same time she cannot get married to a hi-fi brahmin boy also. So, with the result she is left with some middle-class boy who can understand her financial positions, society level etc as she is moving with them only and so this blossoms into love, I think.


A middle-class tambram boy in a good govt. job nowadays is very rare to find due to the Govt. policies and reservations! The talented young tambrams fly off to good off-shores never to return except for their marriage and of course, December season, sometimes!


I have this to say reg. the culture and watering down of our values. Though the times are changing the ladies are somewhat maintaining the tradition of celebrating festivals like kolu and the like though reduced to some extent. But, they have not dropped them altogether like their male counter-parts. We all know that almost 90 % of Tambrams nowadays attend to their 'Poonal' only once in a year - on avani avittam day. Only those in vaidheegam as profession maintain their poonal.


The Kanchi Periyava himself has foreseen this trend and has given a suggestion, i.e how to balance the changing scenario and our age-old customs. He has suggested to form groups of like-minded people who can meet in a temple/ any member's house on sundays and chant the gayathri manthra a thousand times and so on.


I feel this is time menfolk of all ages start taking interest in our customs and understand and practice it. The other religious groups, like Christians and Muslims have weekend and vacation classes on their religious scriptures for their children and so they are continuing their religious education, too. But we miss that sorely. The knowledge of vedas and slokas should be passed on to the next generation. We can have religious classes during annual vacation as short term courses in prominent cities atleast, where the coming generation will have an idea and understand the concepts.


It is a fact that to find a well-knowledgeable scholar these days is really difficult. Unless we respect the existing seniors and urge them to share their knowledge, all the treasures may be easily lost in the times to come.


When we understand our civilization and tradition and concepts in the right spirit, we will be proud to be a brahmin.

Regards
Anamika

Spot on. I agree, the loss of understanding of what brahminism stands for, why it is important not just for brahmins but for the entire hindu community and even the world in one sense, how it fosters a holistic growth of a person, where we need to be flexible on ritualism and even knowledge of what is vedic and what is a general practice is causing all the commotion. I see your point about bringing people together on a weekend of monthend forum as a very important step to take. One example I can bring to light here is how people in my own small agraharam in tanjore district (who are all today spread out across globe) still collect together twice a year for annual utsavams (temple festivities) help educate children about what is brahminism about and how it helps one and all to grow holistically. Without keeping the spirit and import of what brahminism stands for, there is no use anyway of keeping the community as an entity, it will anyway fizzle out in time. Kanchi mahaswami refers to the abandoned 'toll booths' (sunga chaavadi) of 50s, he says since sungam got abolished, the chaavadi's got deserted. He says, so is brahminism. Moment vedas are abandoned, brahminism loses meaning. I agree with you point, if poonal itself is hanging in coat-stand, what is the definition of one being a brahmin? At the most we can say he has a brahminical parentage. Even vegetarianism is getting eroded. Almost 80% of younger ones drink alcohol and dont even know that it is suggested to be shunned, by vedas. 'Suraam na pibheth' (dont drink alcohol - is a mandate in upanishads). Cultural deterioration starts with men first, which is a reality and it has been that way since ages. Even when women were chaste few decades ago, some men from even brahmin community had all sorts of corrupt practices including tobacco, womenizing etc.

So, let me state here that I am not taking a chauvinistic position in favor of men, nor am I against women liberation or the fight against the suppression against women in any community. All I am saying is, we need to address the issue together, and within the community. Running away is not a solution, also mainly because other communities are also not all saints either. My personal view is that brahmin community is still broadminded than others, which I today say many women wedded to them are realizing. I have seen many girls divorse and remarry within community, but most of them try and make it work, bearing some of the shocks on the way.
Also, I feel love marriages are less likely to be as successful as arranged marriages, due to a psychological reason. This never gets highlighted in movies or storied teenagers read or view. The fact is that people in love always try and show their positive side, due to the fear of breakage. This happens not necessarily consciously but even unconsciously. However, when they get married, the fear goes away and they become free to relate to each other in a more easy way. This is when the other side of both individuals get expressed. Even in arranged marriages, both sides or spouses come out after marriage. But the difference is that in arranged marriages there is no preset view of the life partner, it is only an exploration, whereas in love marriage both spouses will feel being cheated, as they would have built a different perception of each other during their phase of love. So, the risk of marriage failure is psychologically and logically more in love marriages. This is my view - people may differ on this.

Regarding your point about poor/vaideeka boys, it is a very sad story as well. Girls from vaideeka families are marrying job going boys these days, as the 'offers' are more and non-vaideeka families are not willing to give away girls on marriage to vaideeka boys either. So, where do they go for seeking brides? Number of vaideeka boys who earn thousands of rupees a month are not finding girls these days. So, overall it is a sorry state of affair which I am pained to observe. One of my own iyengar collegue working for a leading software firm, 33 years of age, earning near 2 lakh a month is still unmarried, searching for bride nearly for 5 years now. He is a fair, good looking guy. His negative is apparently him being with aged parents who he needs to take care and unwilling to move overseas. What a tragedy!

One of my relative boy, who is little poor category searched for girls and then decided he is not going to easily get a brahmin one, went ahead and married a chettiar on arranged marriage. My view is, if the girls continue to go IC way, boys are going to resign to the fact that they dont have too many options and start looking at other caste girls. This may not be too much a favorable position for brahmin girls to get into. We may end up in a situation where girls might one day consider brahmin families as better to marry into, but find the brahmin boys go after NBs.... Wishful thinking of man????

 

[sarma-61]

Brahmins are making themselves extinct, by their foolishness and 'kaiyale aakaatthanam". Girls should not be educated beyond school level and should be married off to a proper brahmin boy of the parents' choice. We should strictly follow this custom which was there some fifty years or so ago.

Here I find many people pretending to be "modern" and all and beating about the bush. If you are all so concerned about females, well, then don't send your boys beyond school level, teach them cooking and household work and marry them off to a brahmin girl of the parents' choice. Role reversal!

And start agitation against the laws giving so much powers to girls. If you don't have the backbone to do it, better shut up all this useless talk.

 

[amala]

Kunjs..I am not surprised cos the woman he married is a Non Indian.
When Indian guys marry out of their race..then no rules apply.
Age no bar,Virginity status no bar,Parity status(number of children) no bar.Horoscope matching no bar.
Most important point is these guys will somehow make their parents agree!!

All rules and regulations apply only for the Indian Hindu female.

OMG Renu i was gonna post this exact same thing. Had Venkys wife been the same community/ethnicity as he, i sincerely doubt he would marry a lady older than he, especially if she had a kid in tow. I have never seen our tambram guys do that at all even today, even the so called liberal ones from abroad. When its their community girls they are sooo particular like nobodys business.

Also K sir, I am pretty sure unless its a love marriage, in a totally arranged cum planned marriage I have my doubts that a tambram guy and his family are willing the marry a girl older than the groom. Even in a love marriage i haven't heard of this thus far.

 

[amala]

Ok i don't get this "girls intercaste girls intercaste marriage" moaning at all. Don't our brahmin boys marry intercaste, interreligious and interace too? I know so many tambram boys who marry non tb girls. Why go so far? In this very forum also we have people whose sons have married non tb girls. Why don't we ever pick on that. Why the double standards?

After 2 years being in this forum I have learnt the following:

It is completely alright if our boys marry non tb girls but when our girls do the same its terrible and must be stopped come hell or high water

Clearly what is good for the gander is not good for the goose.

 

[kunjuppu]

OMG Renu i was gonna post this exact same thing. Had Venkys wife been the same community/ethnicity as he, i sincerely doubt he would marry a lady older than he, especially if she had a kid in tow. I have never seen our tambram guys do that at all even today, even the so called liberal ones from abroad. When its their community girls they are sooo particular like nobodys business.

Also K sir, I am pretty sure unless its a love marriage, in a totally arranged cum planned marriage I have my doubts that a tambram guy and his family are willing the marry a girl older than the groom. Even in a love marriage i haven't heard of this thus far.

renus, amala,

i am with you 100%. the question is why the double standard?

i think, considering how the boys behave, the girls going for whomever they choose for love, is but inevitable. being a second rated person within your own kind, i think, sucks. no?

 

[kunjuppu]

sarma61,

i have to post 'like' to #30, for its sheer audacity.

if 61 is your age, and which is the same as mine, i think, we are perfect mirror images. and surely, if that is not sensational, what is?

God Bless you sir, and i wonder, if you practised, what you preached, with your daughters, and would not mind sharing your experiences.

personally, i respect you for your belief, for just like me, there must be reasons as to why you believe what you do, and again, if you feel like, are most welcome, to elucidate them here.

the world, i think, is large enough, to accommodate multiple views. i only hope, that due to your beliefs, nobody among your loved ones, were hurt, and stuff like that only you would know, and perhaps might chose, not to acknowledge. or, your wards chose the path of ic/ir weddings, and, in the context of our culture, you are very hurt. that too is not fiction, that too is reality.

peace.

 

[kunjuppu]

kalyan,

your post #29,

what is your solution? i think, we both agree, that not all is great in the kingdom of denmark.

i have consistently advocated a solution, which you can peruse through my various posts, at your leisure.

you have also branded me 'ignorant' among other things, and i respect your views, that from your pov, i do look, seem and write 'ignorant'. since this is your opinion, i will let it stand.

but you have moaned a lot, about the loss of tambram traditions. i agree with you on that.

now, what is your solution.

a solution to me, has to be winnable ie 'set itself for success'.

for example, going back to kudumi, madisar, mottai on widowhood, study of vedas and shunning secular education, is not acceptable, i think, by all of us, including yourself.

you wail over the lack of spouses for the vathayars, but would you be able to convince, your sister or daughter or girl cousin, or even any other tambram girl you know, to marrying one. if so, we can keep track, and i will bow before you, on your first success score.

it is i think, generally agreed, that a community, cannot grow, by shrinking. tambrams are shrinking, mainly because, i feel, that we do not reproduce enough to replace ourselves on this planet (2.2 children per couple?). also due to emigration (by choice 100%, as so far i am yet to meet a tambram who has been chased out by the dravidian reformation, and believe it or not, many of those folks who went out, their children are coming back to tamil nadu), ic/ir marriages - and our reluctance to accept/inculcate our traditions to the out of caste/religion spouse. what is stopping us - shame? i dont know.

so please, come up with solutions for the new generation - something that appears 'cool' enough for the teenagers to accept, embrace and be proud of. something that is simple, so that they can easily explain, and propagate the values. and above, set up an environment, where our community can grow.

what sayest thou? get your grey cells working here. thank you.

 

[biswa]

Children born out of inter-caste marriage will have plenty of problems later,
may not be initially. Food habits will again differ and children will find it difficult
as months and years go about.

Sorry sir, I tend to disagree. In most cases the children of inter-caste marriages (in the current generation) have more problems earlier on in life. That is because the grand-parents hover around and try to pull them towards one caste or another.

Once the children attain adulthood, they make their own life and should minimize their dependence on their parents and therefore not carry the "burden" of their parents' marriage. Their food habits are simply their own business.

If they are competent or charming or lucky enough they should find life partners who do not care about their caste origins. I predict that in 20 years you will find Indian boys / girls of every state marrying each other.

Well, it is happening already. It is futile to resist the tide, it is better to go with the flow.

 

[biswa]

It is completely alright if our boys marry non tb girls but when our girls do the same its terrible and must be stopped come hell or high water

Clearly what is good for the gander is not good for the goose.

Amala, there is an implicit assumption here that you have not mentioned. Boys are supposed to have a mind of their own, while girls are just property ...

 

[biswa]

Go with the Jews!

Interestingly the Jewish people have a very similar debate when one of their own marries outside their community.

Now let's suppose someone like Chelsea Clinton (nominally a Christian) marries a Jewish boy. Actually there is nothing to suppose, because she actually did that. Is that a net loss for the Jewish community or a net gain?

Now let's suppose the actress Natalie Portman (nominally a Jew) marries a Christian. Is that a loss for the Jews? Does the qualification of her spouse matter? Does the answer change just because Natalie is a (good-looking) woman?

Finally:Are the Jews getting extinct?

 

[biswa]

I feel this is time menfolk of all ages start taking interest in our customs and understand and practice it. The other religious groups, like Christians and Muslims have weekend and vacation classes on their religious scriptures for their children and so they are continuing their religious education, too. But we miss that sorely. The knowledge of vedas and slokas should be passed on to the next generation. We can have religious classes during annual vacation as short term courses in prominent cities atleast, where the coming generation will have an idea and understand the concepts.

Actually this exists. There is something called Bala Vihar organized by the Chinmaya Mission in the US which does exactly that. It is interesting but perhaps not unexpected that Hinduism is practiced in its purer form more outside India than it its country of origin.

 

[sarma-61]

sarma61,

i have to post 'like' to #30, for its sheer audacity.

if 61 is your age, and which is the same as mine, i think, we are perfect mirror images. and surely, if that is not sensational, what is?

God Bless you sir, and i wonder, if you practised, what you preached, with your daughters, and would not mind sharing your experiences.

personally, i respect you for your belief, for just like me, there must be reasons as to why you believe what you do, and again, if you feel like, are most welcome, to elucidate them here.

the world, i think, is large enough, to accommodate multiple views. i only hope, that due to your beliefs, nobody among your loved ones, were hurt, and stuff like that only you would know, and perhaps might chose, not to acknowledge. or, your wards chose the path of ic/ir weddings, and, in the context of our culture, you are very hurt. that too is not fiction, that too is reality.

peace.

Shri kunjuppu sir,

If I tell some truth, you call it "sheer audacity"; I had to refer to dictionary to learn that audacity means "fearless arrogant behaviour". If writing what I feel is the truth is considered as arrogant behaviour, then I cannot but continue to say my opinions frankly during my coming here off and on.

You want me to elucidate the reasons for my writing like that. I believe that a household cannot work on the basis of equality of husband and wife; that is a good idea for novels, cinemas, and tv serials, perhaps. But when you climb down from those very high levels of ideal household mantra, down to the reality of a lower middle class or upper middle class household in India, it becomes very necessary that somebody take overall charge of the entire family - wife, children, the house building, furniture and so on - and decides about financial side while another has to take complete charge of what is usually known as 'household work' - cooking, cleaning vessels, washing, drying, ironing, etc., of clothes, making the children neat so that they will be able to go to school and buy and keep provisions, vegetables, and other items for running the house, etc.

The person in charge of finance gets the higher position. Hence, one - either wife or husband has to be subservient to the other. Without that there can be no long-lasting "daampathyam" and that is why the divorce cases are increasing now. But in the modern fashion, all these truths are forgotten. And anybody who tells the truth becomes "sheer audacity".

சொல்லித்தெரியாட்டா பட்டுத்தான் தெரியணும், as the saying goes, I think.

PS. I was born in 1961.

 

[sarma-61]

Ok i don't get this "girls intercaste girls intercaste marriage" moaning at all. Don't our brahmin boys marry intercaste, interreligious and interace too? I know so many tambram boys who marry non tb girls. Why go so far? In this very forum also we have people whose sons have married non tb girls. Why don't we ever pick on that. Why the double standards?

After 2 years being in this forum I have learnt the following:

It is completely alright if our boys marry non tb girls but when our girls do the same its terrible and must be stopped come hell or high water

Clearly what is good for the gander is not good for the goose.

Smt. Amala,

It is not correct, what you say.

Because there is a shortage now for tamil brahmin girls for marriage, and very many tamil brahmin boys are marrying girls from other brahmin groups, other castes and even other religions. That is why people generally feel tabra girls doing "love marriage" outside the community as very bad.

Supposing tomorrow (I mean at a future time) there are many more girls and then tabra boys marry outside the community, then we will blame the boys.

 

[kunjuppu]

dear sarma61,

please treat the interpretation of 'audacity' on a kinder note; after all i 'liked' your post. actually i had wanted to use the word 'chutzpah', but that being so semitic, i figured, i would avoid such, in such a catholic forum as this!

i notice, you have slipped on from a male dominated household, to one of requiring 'one leader'. i presume, from the rest of your post, that a female leader would be acceptable, even when it comes to finances.

if that be the case, i am with you. fyi, in my household, the process is one of consultation; including the smallest loaf of bread. by the need to be efficient, we have moi as a nominal leader, with 51% of the vote, mrs K gets the remaining 49%, but those '49' carry as much weight as my '51'.

i will leave it to you, to figure this out.

welcome to the forum, and hope to hear more from you. i am 11 years elder to you in age, but probably not as wise to the ways of the world, for i believe the younger generation more in tune with what is 'going on'. for me, it is always 'catch up', and adapt.

if you read around, someone even called me 'ignorant' a few days ago. i would agree with that assessment.

best wishes.

 

[kunjuppu]

Smt. Amala,

It is not correct, what you say.

Because there is a shortage now for tamil brahmin girls for marriage, and very many tamil brahmin boys are marrying girls from other brahmin groups, other castes and even other religions. That is why people generally feel tabra girls doing "love marriage" outside the community as very bad.

Supposing tomorrow (I mean at a future time) there are many more girls and then tabra boys marry outside the community, then we will blame the boys.

dear sarma,

i would presume that you would grant tambram girls, as much intelligence and ability to handle their lives, as the boys? or do you feel, that their poor fluffy little self, with weak brains joined to a weak body, is easily influenced by show of 'muscles, perfume, panache and style' - all of which, you consider superficial and hollow.

how else can we accede to the fact, that many tambram girls in the past 20 years hence, have taken the initiative, to seek a path seldom taken by their mothers or grandmothers, discard the blood line of milleniums, cast aside the purity of their gothras, open up their bodies, to essential shudras, which goes against every law of manu?

bluntly speaking, this is what is happening.

why do you think these girls venture into such? i am very curious to hear your reasons and reasonings.

if you are an engineer or scientist, we would probably want to start with newton, and go along the path of the cause/efffect. but then, i agree, there are other schools of logic and if you dont mind, please enlighten us, to your rather sharp words to amala.

i thank you.

 

[sarma-61]

Shri Kunjuppu sir,

As you perhaps know, I am not able to come to internet browsing centre regularly. So, I come only at times when I have some money to spare after meeting all the pressing domestic needs.

I am not from any 'male dominated household'. In truth my father was not the main person; it was my mother who decided but she took care to finally ask father, என்னா, இப்படிச்செய்யலாமா? or something like that and she knew father will never, never object! The kudumbam went off satisfactorily well for a lower middle class Tamil brahmin household.

In my case, my wife looks to me for taking all decisions but she does express her wishes. If I take a decision against her wishes also, she does not complain but she may feel unhappy. But sometimes such unpleasant decsions have to be made (with the limited buddhi that we have). If we fail, it is our mistake/fault, and if we succeed then we can be happy. It is through such continuous joys and sorrows that life goes; and not by equality or percentage votes or something like that. In our simple but not very rich life, we are all happy without any modern ideas.

 

[kunjuppu]

dear sarma,

it breaks my heart, that internet browsing, to you, means stretching your budget. so sorry sir, and do forgive me, for any untoward ill feelings.

let me conclude this way.

i have found that there are not fast rules in life. to each one, what works, is good. one needs to find peace, doing it. one cannot swim upstream, and find happiness.

also, tension kills. it killed my father. i tend to take the path of least resistance, as tension, to me is anethema.

re your family, i wish you well. pray, once in a while, ask your wife, if she is happy with your decisions. when you make wrong decisions, please do not use the word 'our' as you did in your post. be man enough, and accept the blame. that would make you look higher in your wife's eyes.

God Bless.

 

[happyhindu]

Actually this exists. There is something called Bala Vihar organized by the Chinmaya Mission in the US which does exactly that. It is interesting but perhaps not unexpected that Hinduism is practiced in its purer form more outside India than it its country of origin.

Depends on what one considers the "purer' form. I have immense respect for acharyas of chinmaya mission and of art of living. Both these organisations offer guidance to their followers in how to live life.

While chinmaya mission comes across primarily as a vedanta group, art of living is a yoga group (though sri sri and the acharyas of aol also bring in vedanta in their teachings). Both of these are not veda groups, and none are involved in researching the origins of various schools that make up hinduism.

Me thinks the context of what is "purer hinduism" is very subjective and relative...

 

[anamika]

Hi to all friends/ Seniors in this thread,


Now that things are discussed openly here, I would like to add the following points to ponder:


1. As Biswa Sir says there are Balvihar classes run by Chinmaya trust here in India too. My son also attended one of those classes and learnt a bit of Gita. (Incidentally, he won the first prize in ita Chanting when he was around 5 yrs old.) I have seen the vacation classes in our nearby church going on with full strength and compared to those classes, the kids coming to our sloka classes are very few.


2. I also feel there is a point in saying we are now getting extinct. Nowadays, brahmin population is restricted to specific localities, say Mylapore, Triplicane and a specific few in Chennai. What about Brahmins in other cities and towns in Tamilnadu and the like who want to practice our culture? To state my personal expe, it is really difficult to find a 'Vathiyar' to perform Mahalaya srartham in Coimbatore. That too, coming for "hiranya" is ok; but if it is for lunch also, it is still more difficult. Vaidheega Brahmins are shrinking these days. More than our convenience, the availability of the Vathiyar has to be first confirmed during the 15 days of Mahalaya.


Recently I heard of a temple in Chennai, Saligramam where Mahalaya Srardham is performed in batches and a common lunch is served as 'prasad' after all the batches are over. With the rising prices, non- availability of Vathiyars, austere practices to be followed at home, more people find this easier to adopt.


3. We live in non- brahmin locality in Cbe and have been trying to put our son for a veda class for the past 1 year. Due to travelling distance, time and the like various reasons, it is not possible to attend the daily class for him. We tried to have a personal master too, but a Yoga/karate/chess and all other masters are readily available, but not a veda master. Then I realised the extent of damage happening to our society and its network. When we requested to arrange a veda class during summer vacation, the Sastry says 'who will come these days to learn vedas?' - This is the practical reality. Why not think of reviving these traditions, just like Samskrita Bharati is doing for sanskrit?


4. My sugg. is there are so many get-togethers and events always happening. And we all know for sure there is a mandap/ building for every caste in Tamilnadu where the people meet regularly and talk and do something for their society. Why this is not happening for Tambram? Are we afraid to say we are Brahmins in Tamilnadu?


5. Even among learned scholars, the disparity in financial aspect is very wide. On one side, we have highly - qualified, famous scholars who can be engaged only by hi-fi brahmins; it is a fact that to arrange a veda parayanam nowadays it costs anywhere around Rs. 5,000 - 6,000; also we have really knowledgeable resourceful persons who are not rich and famous and who are not sought after. Their knowledge of the vedas is not utilized by anyone.


I have also heard of NRI Brahmins and other rich and prosperous ready to donate to vedic trust and all and hope it is true and happening.


I have a small sugg. will it be possible to first assess how much of learned scholars ( able to impart vedic knowledge) are there nowadays and prepare a data base? Then will it possible to arrange for a veda parayana on say, first sunday of every month at a particular place, may be a common madam premises/ or temple premises? A common pool of funds/resources can be maintained and the participating vadhyars can be paid also. This arrangement can be done in and around all cities, like the one held by Vijay TV now. The advt. can be done thro various bhakti magazines which are highly popular now.


Also for the next gen, it will be highly appreciable if veda classes are held during summer vacation. The classes can start from the simple slokas and Sukhtas and can be given grades and be continued the next vacation.


I hope my dreams will become true.......


Thanks and regards
anamika

 

[nannilam_balasubramanian]

Sri Ramakrishna Mutt is organizing classes. You can check up whether classes
are conducted in Coimbatore Branch. Sri Ramakrishna Math, Kavundampalayam,
Coimbatore 641 030. I believe it is around 19 Kms from the City. As far as
conducting the rites of Mahalayam, etc. you may be able to get the help from
Sringeri Mutt or Shankara Mutt at Coimbatore, who will be able to help you out.

Balasubramanian
Ambattur

 

[nannilam_balasubramanian]

Sarma-61

If you notice our community girls, they do very well in their studies and
they also easily get jobs nowadays without any problem in IT Sector,
particularly through Campus Recruitments. Further the present day Girls,
because of their exposure to the educational world and having a fair
idea on the economical background of their family background, have a very
clear idea and thinking power and above all have a fair knowledge to
appraise their parents about their choice and impress upon them in
a convincing manner. In some cases, parents also delay the marriages,
either owing to non-availability of boys of equal status to their girls and
sometimes proper match horoscopes are not available. All this process
paves the way, at odd cases, girls slip out of their hands leading to
selecting their life companion in the office where they are employed.

Balasubramanian
Ambattur

 

[sarma-61]

dear sarma,

it breaks my heart, that internet browsing, to you, means stretching your budget. so sorry sir, and do forgive me, for any untoward ill feelings.

Shri Kunjuppu,

Absolutely no ill feelings sir. After all I am voluntarily coming here; you are not talking to me when I go my way.

let me conclude this way.

i have found that there are not fast rules in life. to each one, what works, is good. one needs to find peace, doing it. one cannot swim upstream, and find happiness.

also, tension kills. it killed my father. i tend to take the path of least resistance, as tension, to me is anethema.

I agree completely with you that there is no one rule applicable to each and every person or even each and every family. If one is able to lead a reasonably happy, and - more importantly - satisfied life, then the rule followed by him/her and the family, is correct for them at that point of time.

In my observation and experience, tension comes directly from impractical ambitions. I don't know about your father. But knowing about tabra households of the previous generation, it looks to me as if he (your venerable father) was either having very large family responsibilities and he was a conscientious man with not enough money; or, he might have been extremely ambitious, wanting to fly above the garuDan though he had only the cock's wings.

re your family, i wish you well. pray, once in a while, ask your wife, if she is happy with your decisions. when you make wrong decisions, please do not use the word 'our' as you did in your post. be man enough, and accept the blame. that would make you look higher in your wife's eyes.

God Bless.

Shri Kunjuppu sir, I do not know how a family is run (managed) in Canada, where you live. Here, in Kerala, a lower middle class tabra household does not have many choices or options so that the husband/wife has to take the route of asking the wife/husband about whether he/she is happy with the other party's decisions. It is what normally is called "anRADam kAyccikaL" - people who somehow make each day roll on....to yet another day which again has to be rolled on. In such sort of life, decisions are always linked to affordability and a decision has to be taken based on whether you can afford or not - find out the sources of money or not. There is no scope for being unhappy if somethings cannot be afforded. Also, since mostly we deal with necessities, there is no choice except cheaper and may be, still cheaper, substitutes.

I am somewhat aware that the people who post here belong to a different level and live very luxurious lives, when viewed from the position of a lower middle class tabra's vantage point. Still, they firmly think they are representative of the entire tamil brahmin population and pretend to reflect the entire community's pov; that is the wonder!! I am reminded manytimes of the story of the French Queen who asked her people to eat cake if they could not afford to buy bread. This site seems to be full of such queens, the nouveau riche, as they say.

Coming to the point, my wife does not feel it is my decision nor do I feel it is her decision if she decides we will have only watery kanji and coconut chammanthi with a small amount of peas (cherupayaru) cooked, for the night; all decisions are ours. A pilot and co-pilot cannot feel that it is their individual decisions, whether the other person approves, etc. It is always their joint responsibility to take the plane safely to its landing. Similarly, it is always taken as the joint responsibility of husband and wife to take the family till it takes off...children are comfortably living and both the husband and the wife ascend to the next world! There is no parliamentary democracy, voting rights, strength of individual votes, majority decision, etc., in running a house for folks like us. At least, not yet.