Bhagavata Purana Question

[il_guy]

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Namaste all,

In the Bhagavata Purana, where it mentions the various incarnations of Lord Vishnu, is the Rishabidev mentioned therein the same Rishabidev as of the Jains? I hope I'm spelling that properly...

Regards,

Justin

 

[malgova.mango]

Namaste Sri Justin!

This may not be a direct answer, just for you to ponder over..

In Shiva Puranam, there is a talk about Jainism and Buddhism, the narration goes like this...

Once there are Asuras mighty with the boon received from Lord Shiva, They also got a special boon by which the city they reside can fly anywhere as they like, there city is called "Thiripuram" made of cheifly three elements. Through this flying city they conquered manyy worlds, the Devas also suffered heavy loss and prayed to "Sri Hari" for protection.

Sri Hari, meditated and told there strength is due to there devotion to Lord Shiva and if we want to conquer them we should distract there devotion to Lord Shiva and should remove the protection offered by the Lord. So the Devas prayed to Sri Hari to effect that.

Sri Hari , took the form of mendicants, and went to there city , where he went onto to teach the philosophy of "Nir Ishvara" vada or the Law of dependent arising or Shunya vada, thus slowly he suceeded in distracting there devotion to the Ishvara. In time, the Ashuras began to reject Lord Shiva.

When the time matured , Indra the king of Gods requested the Lord Shiva to destroy there city. It is said the Lord Shiva destroyed there city just by a smile. So he is called "THIRIPURANTAHGAN" - meaning Destroyer of the city "Thiripuram"

Jainism and Buddhism are from Vishnu Maya to conquer the Ashuras.

Regards

 

[il_guy]

Namaste Sri Malgova.Mango,

Thank you for your reply. It is indeed something to ponder. Though not a direct answer, I would say the Rishabidev is one and the same as that of the Jains. Just like Lord Buddha is also considered an avatara of Lord Vishnu. But please, correct me if I'm wrong.

God bless.

 

[malgova.mango]

Namaste Sri Justin!

Could be...

Now I need to check on the sastric definition of word avatara - Traditionally Buddha or Jaina though from Lord Vishnu Maya they are not considered as avatara.

Regards,

 

[KRS]

Dear sri Justin ji,

Lord Rishaba is considered the first avatar that Jains venerate. Just like the Bahai faith believes that their first Guru was an avatar of Vishnu 'Kalki'.

It is not surprising that any new religion that breaks away from it's origin would of course retain some basic principles of it's mother. So is the case with Jainism.

No need to compare it with Hindu theology. A whole new powerful religion got started because Jews could not or would not accept that Christ was the Messiah spoken about in their scriptures!

When it comes to religions, stick with the grand hypothesis that each religion teaches. It is about belief.

Pranams,
KRS

Namaste Sri Malgova.Mango,

Thank you for your reply. It is indeed something to ponder. Though not a direct answer, I would say the Rishabidev is one and the same as that of the Jains. Just like Lord Buddha is also considered an avatara of Lord Vishnu. But please, correct me if I'm wrong.

God bless.

 

[rakeshinnovation]

Hi it would be a great if you read bhavishya purana which give details about moses or esha or jesus, english language , kalki, mohammed prophet, please read this and you will be wondered that all these were writeen when these people were not born.

 

[il_guy]

Namaste rakeshinnovation,

I only own condensed versions of the Puranas. I actually have a condensed version of the Bhavishya Purana, but I don't recall if it talks about the things you mentioned. I know it discusses a lot of material relating to Lord Surya.

I would love to get English, full versions of the Puranas, but they're too expensive, being three and plus volumes in size and coming from India, the shipping would be horrendous for me. But, I enjoy what I can read of them. I have learned a lot from these little books. Specific stories may or may not stick with me, but terminology usually does. They have, for instance, the word 'tirtha' and in parenthesis it will say 'pilgrimage place'.

Regards,

Justin

 

[tbs]

hi justin
Yes, The same Rishabhadev is the first Theerthagaras of Jains.......Jains considered 24
Theerthagaras.........in this Rishabhadev is the first theerthaga ia also known as
Adhi nath and last Theerthagara is Lord Mahavira.Rishabhadev was first established
AVADHOOTA sampradaya in JAINISM.

Regards
tbs

 

[prpsarathy]

HI,

I have a collection of bhakti related materials :

Bhagavadam by noochar venkataraman
Bhagavadam
Mayakannanum mahabharatamum
geetha by vellukudi

You can download this from tamiltorrent.com or i can give by dvd or cd.

 

[a.lakshmi]

Good Day , everyone..i heard from a neighbour that Lalitha Sahasranamam should not be recited without guru upadesha is it true?

I regularly recite it & i got apprehensive when i heard that my neighbour saw the above information being relyed in "Udaya TV " a popular kannada channel.

Please clarify.

 

[Nacchinarkiniyan]

Good Day , everyone..i heard from a neighbour that Lalitha Sahasranamam should not be recited without guru upadesha is it true?

I regularly recite it & i got apprehensive when i heard that my neighbour saw the above information being relyed in "Udaya TV " a popular kannada channel.

Please clarify.

Lalita Sahasranamam can be recited without any Upadesa. Yes. Some people do believe that you need Upadesa. But that is not correct. In this regard please check up Lalita Trisathi stotram also. It is a very powerful sloka. It takes less time.

Never take whatever is said on the TV as genuine especially regarding religion.

 

[malgova.mango]

Dear Srimathi Lakshmi!

There is a saying "Guru Illatha Vidhai Kurruttu Vidhai" if you are in India or in any countries where you have Shavaite temple - the priest could be of help. Why don't you check first.

That'll serve 2 purpose- you'll get to recite with perfect diction and also the belssing of guru, moreover you get the satisfaction that you received the teaching in traditional way.

What do you think ? It is like you get 3 mangoes in one stone.

Write to me.

Regards

 

[Nacchinarkiniyan]

Temple priests are not Gurus. Purohithars are also not Gurus. Please note. Again Mantras need Diksha. Lalita Sahasranamam is a stotra and not a Mantra. A guru can give diksha only in Mantras in which he/she has attained Siddhi.

“Gu” means darkness, “Ru” means enlightment. Characteristics of “Sat” (True) Guru (Master) are mentioned both in “Veda” and “Tantra”. The Guru should be “Shrotriya” which means learned in Veda, Purana, Sharodarshan, Tantra and other religious or spiritual philosophy. “Akamahato” who is free from all worldly wishes and lead a perfect chaste life and “Bhrahmanishtha” means achievement of the ultimate plane of realisation according to “Vedanta” ie. Salvation.

In spite of all these qualities the “Guru” should have the “Purnabhisekh” and different stages of “Tantric Diksha” such as Kramo Diksha, Samrajyo Diksha, Maha Medha Maha Samrajya Diksha, Amnaye Diksha and Purna Diksha.

Lakshmi, if you still have doubts and if you are stationed in Chennai, please let me know. I will send you the name and address of a Mami who has got Purna Diksha in Sri Vidya and who has helped out many people.

 

[prpsarathy]

Hi,

I would be interested

 

[malgova.mango]

Nacchi!

You said...

Temple Priests are not Gurus - It is only half truth, I see many temple priest fitting your description of Guru.

To learn to recite "LS" you don't need anybody living in the "thuriya" stage. One needs only a teacher who learned it by tradition and have "AAsthika Buddhi" and nothing else is the requirement to learn the shloka.

Common ....

 

[Nacchinarkiniyan]

I am sorry. MM. I am disappointed.

I thought you were talking about some of the schools of Sri Vidya who believe that you need Diksha to recite Lalita Sahasranama Stotra. You thought no Diksha is required. Still you created impediments for a devotee.

One needs only a teacher who learned it by tradition and have "AAsthika Buddhi" and nothing else is the requirement to learn the shloka.

So according to you only temple priests have this quality. No one other than temple priests have this attitude or tradition. Only temple priests have AAsthika Buddhi. All the others have Naasthika Buddhi. This is the kind of attitude which has made most people hate Brahmin priests. There are thousands of Brahmin women who are reciting Lalita Sahasranamam.

Lakshmi asked a question as a devotee and you come out with recommendation for going to priests of temples. If you can help a devotee please do. Do not canvass for Brahmin priests.

BTW I am vested with the Adhikara to give the advice about Lalita Sahasranamam. I do not expect you to accept it because I am not a priest and so according to you do not qualify as an AAsthika..

 

[s007bala]

love

I am sorry. MM. I am disappointed.

I thought you were talking about some of the schools of Sri Vidya who believe that you need Diksha to recite Lalita Sahasranama Stotra. You thought no Diksha is required. Still you created impediments for a devotee.

So according to you only temple priests have this quality. No one other than temple priests have this attitude or tradition. Only temple priests have AAsthika Buddhi. All the others have Naasthika Buddhi. This is the kind of attitude which has made most people hate Brahmin priests. There are thousands of Brahmin women who are reciting Lalita Sahasranamam.

Lakshmi asked a question as a devotee and you come out with recommendation for going to priests of temples. If you can help a devotee please do. Do not canvass for Brahmin priests.

BTW I am vested with the Adhikara to give the advice about Lalita Sahasranamam. I do not expect you to accept it because I am not a priest and so according to you do not qualify as an AAsthika..

Shri Nacchinarkiniyan and M M

Religion of Love,says Bhagavan Sathya Sai Baba.Love transcends everything,isn't it?

Bhagavan Sathya Sai Baba was not born in a Brahmin community.But,he is the Adi Brahmana,Adi Kshatriya,Adi Vaisya,Adi Shudra.He/She ( Shiva- Sakthi Swaroopam ) is et al.

When one prays with Shraddha & Saburi as per Bhagavan Shridi Sai Baba ( Shiva Swaroopam ),prayers are always heard by god.Omnipresent,Omniscient.....Ambal herself will envelop the devotee,when done with purity of heart,clarity of mind.Don't you both think so?

In fact,i wish technology can used by Saints/Avatars/Sages/Wise people....direct communication...i believe Bhagavan Sathya Sai Baba used to speak over phone to people...as a matter of fact,i myself spoke with H H Vijayendra Saraswathi thru a cell phone given by Shri Guruvayoorappan to me to converse,in New Jersey couple of years back,on the 70th birthday celeberation of H H Jayendra Saraswathi in,Bridgewater,USA.

Sarva Lokas Samasthas Sukhino Bhavanthu

sb

 

[malgova.mango]

SB!

Don't ever visit "youtube.com" .Your faith with "Sathya" may be shaken to the core.

Regards

 

[malgova.mango]

Me too..

I am sorry. MM. I am disappointed.

I thought you were talking about some of the schools of Sri Vidya who
believe that you need Diksha to recite Lalita Sahasranama Stotra.

You thought no Diksha is required. Still you created impediments for a devotee.

Oh! Did I?

So according to you only temple priests have this quality. No one other than temple priests have this attitude or tradition. Only temple priests have AAsthika Buddhi. All the others have Naasthika Buddhi. This is the kind of attitude which has made most people hate Brahmin priests.

No it is not what I meant. Temple priests also are as qualified as Mamis or any other.

There are thousands of Brahmin women who are reciting Lalita Sahasranamam.

Good - I'm happy about it.

Lakshmi asked a question as a devotee and you come out with recommendation for going to priests of temples. If you can help a devotee please do. Do not canvass for Brahmin priests.

You must have some sore reasons against Temple priests. I've otherwise.

BTW I am vested with the Adhikara to give the advice about Lalita Sahasranamam. I do not expect you to accept it because I am not a priest and so according to you do not qualify as an AAsthika..

Good - why not? If you have then my deep respects for that. I darenot antagonize any Bhaktas. Nann Pulla-Kuttikaran , Why Vambu? Oru Sadhu sir naan. Please teach anyone as you wish.
"mata cha parvathi devi, Pitha Devo Maheshwaraha:
Bhaandhava Shiva Bhatascha
Svadesho Bhuvantrayam"

Om shanti

 

[tbs]

I am sorry. MM. I am disappointed.

I thought you were talking about some of the schools of Sri Vidya who believe that you need Diksha to recite Lalita Sahasranama Stotra. You thought no Diksha is required. Still you created impediments for a devotee.

So according to you only temple priests have this quality. No one other than temple priests have this attitude or tradition. Only temple priests have AAsthika Buddhi. All the others have Naasthika Buddhi. This is the kind of attitude which has made most people hate Brahmin priests. There are thousands of Brahmin women who are reciting Lalita Sahasranamam.

Lakshmi asked a question as a devotee and you come out with recommendation for going to priests of temples. If you can help a devotee please do. Do not canvass for Brahmin priests.

BTW I am vested with the Adhikara to give the advice about Lalita Sahasranamam. I do not expect you to accept it because I am not a priest and so according to you do not qualify as an AAsthika..[/quote

hi all,/MM/Nacchi sir/sb/
namaskarams, .....first understand manta/ yantra/ tantra properly.
mantra needs guru.....yantra needs aacharya/ ..tantra needs diksha..
so we need sikha guru/ aacharya/ diksha guru.....but all are should be
aasthikas..... next mantra is differenent from slokas......slokas
can recite any mamis/mamas.....but mantra only done through
proper swaras.. through veda patasala........only priests/vaidikas
are allowed recite mantras............this is the sastra method..

regards
tbs
namaskarams

 

[Nacchinarkiniyan]

hi all,/MM/Nacchi sir/sb/
namaskarams, .....first understand manta/ yantra/ tantra properly.
mantra needs guru.....yantra needs aacharya/ ..tantra needs diksha..
so we need sikha guru/ aacharya/ diksha guru.....but all are should be
aasthikas..... next mantra is differenent from slokas......slokas
can recite any mamis/mamas.....but mantra only done through
proper swaras.. through veda patasala........only priests/vaidikas
are allowed recite mantras............this is the sastra method..

regards
tbs
namaskarams

I am sorry. Mantras are not only learnt in Veda Patashala. The entire Vedas are considered Mantras. There are restrictions regarding their recital. Most of the other Mantras are Tantrik. Some of the compilations are Mantra Maharnava, Mantra Mahodati. They are learnt through a Guru. Not Veda Patashala. Anyone can get Diksha in a Tantrik Mantra from the Guru irrrespective of caste or sex. Yantras are again Tantrik.

We are talking about SriVidya Upasana here. SriVidya is Tantrik and not in the curriculum of the all Veda Patashalas.

That is called Mantra Yoga. I will be talking about Tantras in my other thread about hinduism.

 

[tbs]

I am sorry. Mantras are not only learnt in Veda Patashala. The entire Vedas are considered Mantras. There are restrictions regarding their recital. Most of the other Mantras are Tantrik. Some of the compilations are Mantra Maharnava, Mantra Mahodati. They are learnt through a Guru. Not Veda Patashala. Anyone can get Diksha in a Tantrik Mantra from the Guru irrrespective of caste or sex. Yantras are again Tantrik.

That is called Mantra Yoga. I will be talking about Tantras in my other thread about hinduism.

hi Nacchi sir,
Mantras recited with three swaras called udatta/ anudatta/swarita...
but slokas does not have any swaras........so anybody read slokas
like sir Lalitha sahsaranama/ sri vishnu shasranaman..

regards
tbs

 

[Nacchinarkiniyan]

Lalita Sahasranama is a part of the Sri Vidya tradition. It is different from Vishnu Sahasranama.

About Vedas please see this thread.

Oral tradition of the Vedas

http://www.tamilbrahmins.com/showthread.php?t=1207

 

[malgova.mango]

LS is from a Purana - Am I correct? Can't remember which Purana..

 

[Nacchinarkiniyan]

Lalita Sahsranama is from Brahmanda Purana.

MM,

There was a lot of discussions about reciting Soundarya Lahari. For a long time people did not read it because it was believed that Upadesam is required. Then Paramchariyar advised people to read it without any restrictions. Soundarya Lahari became popular there after.

Some times entire upa Puranas are considered Mantras. Devi Mahatmyam/Durga Saptasathi is a compilation of 700 mantras. It is generally believed that you need Upadesa of Chandi Navakshari to recite it. But in Bengal they do not believe this.