Bhakthi & Logic

[Srimadhan]

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Renuka Madam

Great thought and explanation. Very very thoughtful.

I salute you for the great LOGIC.

Regards
Srimadhan

 

[prasad1]

I am of the opinion that Bhakti without Gyana (understanding) is dangerous and totally fruitless. So an honest bhakta who has devotion to a charlatan guru is going to be totally lost.

 

[C RAVI]

Please look at the portion highlighted. To me this shows how hypocritical your bhakti or "contact with god" is or else you have not been able to make any "real" contact with god and are only falsely claiming to do so. Also, you are very fond of this world and the comforts here and you do not want any moksha or any such humbug, in reality.

I will only plead to you to stop all this pretences of bhakti, connecting to god and so on, and start living as an honest human being. That will be what god has created you really for - to lead a simple, honest life without any pretences and that will do you immense good in your journey of lives and deaths.

Shri Sangom,

With reference to the highlighted portion..

What you have stated in your concluding para is very much fine and would be applicable specially to Atheists.

But, for the Theists, other than being a good and ethical human, a theist would whole heartedly be involved in spirituality with strong belief in God/Spirituality. At the same, a theist can choose not to be worried about Moksha and not to be indulged in Spirituality with the sole motive of attaining Moksha. Not to be into Spirituality out of fear of not getting the Moksha.


As such, what Shri.Srimadhan has said, is perfectly fine. Many are the theists who wish to be into spiritual journey out of belief, bakthi and love towards the Almighty, without chasing Moksha, while living a life of a good and ethical human being.

 

[sangom]

Shri Sangom,

With reference to the highlighted portion..

What you have stated in your concluding para is very much fine and would be applicable specially to Atheists.

But, for the Theists, other than being a good and ethical human, a theist would whole heartedly be involved in spirituality with strong belief in God/Spirituality. At the same, a theist can choose not to be worried about Moksha and not to be indulged in Spirituality with the sole motive of attaining Moksha. Not to be into Spirituality out of fear of not getting the Moksha.


As such, what Shri.Srimadhan has said, is perfectly fine. Many are the theists who wish to be into spiritual journey out of belief, bakthi and love towards the Almighty, without chasing Moksha, while living a life of a good and ethical human being.

Shri Ravi,

Though I have consciously chosen to be an agnostic, I have no quarrel with the vast majority of people who have some belief in God. I am also not worried about old, retired people indulging in things like over-bhakti, kundalini, etc. But here I find a young man of 38 saying that he is "connecting to god" for several years, that a bhakta is like a mad fellow-hardly any difference, and so on. I have known a few similar-sounding young men in their youth whose life did not shape well at all subsequently and none of those gods came to their rescue.

We have lots and lots of swamijis and gurujis who will be ready to misguide and mislead people, because they make a living by such activities. I feel it is better for people, as a general rule, not to go toomuch into this god, bhakti, chakra, kundalini etc., things until they complete all their responsibilities towards their children and also ensure a reasonably good life for their wife. Here our person has a young daughter and he is just entered his grihasta life. And, if you read all the posts, this man is really not interested in moksha.

Hence I thought I will advise him to follow the middle path both in regard to god and in respect of worldly life; such a policy is the best for man, according to me.

 

[C RAVI]

Shri Ravi,

Though I have consciously chosen to be an agnostic, I have no quarrel with the vast majority of people who have some belief in God. I am also not worried about old, retired people indulging in things like over-bhakti, kundalini, etc. But here I find a young man of 38 saying that he is "connecting to god" for several years, that a bhakta is like a mad fellow-hardly any difference, and so on. I have known a few similar-sounding young men in their youth whose life did not shape well at all subsequently and none of those gods came to their rescue.

We have lots and lots of swamijis and gurujis who will be ready to misguide and mislead people, because they make a living by such activities. I feel it is better for people, as a general rule, not to go toomuch into this god, bhakti, chakra, kundalini etc., things until they complete all their responsibilities towards their children and also ensure a reasonably good life for their wife. Here our person has a young daughter and he is just entered his grihasta life. And, if you read all the posts, this man is really not interested in moksha.

Hence I thought I will advise him to follow the middle path both in regard to god and in respect of worldly life; such a policy is the best for man, according to me.

True!!


Going too crazy in Bhakthi Marga without realizing going a wrong way and getting into the traps of most of the fake Godmen, shirking/mishandling the responsibilities of day to day life is really alarming and it is imperative to advice people against it.

 

[renuka]

Actually I gave this whole thread a thought yesterday....in this whole world we see lots of crazy people:

1)Crazy for money

2)Crazy for fame

3)Crazy for knowledge

4)Crazy for lover

5)Crazy for spouse

6)Crazy for progeny


So I feel if one becomes Crazy for God..at least it is much better than being crazy for anything else as long as one does not run away from his/her obligations to self,family and society..there is no harm being Crazy for God.

 

[sangom]

Actually I gave this whole thread a thought yesterday....in this whole world we see lots of crazy people:

1)Crazy for money

2)Crazy for fame

3)Crazy for knowledge

4)Crazy for lover

5)Crazy for spouse

6)Crazy for progeny


So I feel if one becomes Crazy for God..at least it is much better than being crazy for anything else as long as one does not run away from his/her obligations to self,family and society..there is no harm being Crazy for God.

Smt. Renuka,

Let us first see what is meant by the word 'crazy'. The dictionary (wordweb) meanings are :—

1. Affected with madness or insanity
2. Foolish; totally unsound
"a crazy scheme"
3. Bizarre or fantastic
4. Intensely enthusiastic about or preoccupied with
"crazy about cars and racing"

When you say that there are many crazy people in this world, as a general statement, it is quite true. But, coming to the item-wise list that you give, I feel there may not be many people who come even under defn. 4 above, in respect of each item. True, people may be "interested" in money, fame, knowledge, progeny and lover and spouse (the last two are, imo, not very possible these days), but people will generally not go beyond the ordinary level of interest in these matters as otherwise, they will end up being branded as "abnormal".

Being "crazy about god" is risky on two counts, according to me.

Firstly, we have not got any evidence at all about the existence of any of the gods, so far. I know one or two people who were "crazy" about god, religion, poojas, etc., and one of them started "seeing god/s" before them. Though there seems to have been no communication between the god/s and the so-called bhakta, these apparitions did lot of damage to the poor fellow's personal life. This person, a tabra, was a cashier in a nationalized bank and whenever the god/s appeared before him, he reportedly stopped counting the cash and thus caused huge losses to the branch; he was dismissed from service. Hence no medical facilities after that. His wife tried to make both ends meet by making dosai batter at home (old manual ATTukkal - no money to buy a wet grinder) and selling it and by offering her services as cook to many houses. Her only daughter was married to a tabra boy and, reportedly, this girl - after a very prompt first delivery within one year of marriage - is treated worse than a slave in her in-laws' house. Since this god-seeing fellow had very firmly held on to his over-bhakti in his heydays and had been very unreceptive to sage advice from near relatives and well-wishers, all of them now show only a luke-warm attitude to the family.

In another case, the fellow, again a tabra, brought up in an atmosphere of over-bhakti in his growing ages, is now deep into some so-called guruji/swamiji, the kundalini arousal, sahasraaara chakra being "bhedified" and thus attaining superhuman abilities. Right now he is not receptive to any wise counsel, being in his prime age, around 30.

In the past, I had one distant relative who, in his old age perhaps (because when I knew him he was over 60 years old), dabbled in Sreechakra pooja, Lalithaa upaasana and again, the kundalini experiment for god realization. He went completely mad, was locked up in the "kucchil" - a small side room - of the agrahaaram house and died there.

Thus, in my lifetime I have found that innocent people who get lured by all these hocus pocus about kundalini arousal, sreevidyaa and other types of tantric upaasanas etc., end up in absolute misery; their dependent family also suffers. That is why I hold the confirmed view that anything in excess - even being crazy for god - is bad.
Second point is that if the creator god had intended that his creations, viz., human beings, should be remembering Him always and that they should be able to contact Him or "connect to Him" (as the OP here claims he has been doing) then that creator God would definitely have given the ability and means to every human being to do so, just as the other faculties like sight, touch, taste, hearing, etc., have been given. Since Man has not been provided with any such special faculty/organ by God/Nature, it would appear that such a creator god is not there at all, or, god was happy to remain hidden in the deep mysteries of the universe and wanted humans to fend for themselves without invoking god's help.

For both the above reasons, it is risky to be "crazy about god"; it may ultimately become crazy alone just like the "fresh fish sold here" story

 

[renuka]

Dear Sangom ji,

I agree what you say about the methods of connecting to God like Kundalini etc.

I know a person here who teaches all these Kundalini raising etc and she tries very hard to get me into her group.

She is a friend of one of my relatives and she had seen me once at my relative house and God knows what gave her the impression that I am "spiritually high" and ever since she has been bugging my relative to get me to join her Kundalini classes which I will never join.

I do not believe in meditation to start with cos it is almost impossible to stop all thought waves..so the closest anyone can get is concentration.

I don't buy all this cos I know cases where incorrect Kundalini raising caused even an epileptic seizure in a person who never had epilepsy before and this person who got that seizure was a doctor and landed up in ICU.

Swami Vivekananda has mentioned that incorrect Kundalini raising stuff can cause even insanity and delusion of grandeur.

I have seen a case of delusion where a woman told me that she was fighting with Goddess Saraswati for not making an appointment to come to her home to play the veena for her!

I have seen enough nut cases relatives who even told me that Lord Shiva told them in their dream that He is not happy with me(renuka) letting my child keep his toys near the Nataraj statue at my house.

So this types of nut cases are dangerous and eventually go mad.

But being focused on God as in crazy for God and wanting to know more about God and having Bhakti is no harm provided one does not get carried away with it.

But a vast majority want to gain Siddhic powers..I dont know why people even want this to start with?