Brahminism in current day context

[ozone]

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Aspire to know who a Human Being is.
Don't aspire to know who a Brahmin is, what is brahminism etc etc. You will never come to an end.

Hello Sir, Hope you agree self is also a human being?what stuff are you feeding us??

 

[sarma-61]

The Tamil Brahmins use Iyer, Sastri as surname.

The vaishnavites among Tamil Brahmins used Iyengar, Chary as surnames.

The Telugu Brahmins used Sarma, Rao as surnames.

The Kannada Brahmins used Rao, Achar as surnames.

The Malayalam Brahmins used Namboodri as surnames.

The Konkani Brahmins use Bhatt as surname.

The Bengali Brahmins used Mukherjee, Bannerjee, Chatterjee as surnames.

The UP Brahmins used Tiwari, Sharma, Dwivedi, Trivedi, Chaturvedi etc as surnames.

Likewise Brahmins speaking different languages used different surnames.

I never said all NVs are of sound character. All that I meant was, Food does not determine character.

Whoever is of sound character and conduct is held in high esteem regardless of caste, religion, creed or color.

Naturam Ghodse was a Brahmin too. Do you hold him in high esteem Mr Sarma?

Regards,
Iyer

Shri Iyer sir,

I did not say ( and I think nor did you say) that all brahmins have to be held in high esteem for their being brahmins.< Dear Sri Sarma-61 jI - We do not allow glorifying violence in this Forum. Please do not post such sentiments anymore. Thanks - KRS>

And, though you haven't asked the question, I do feel convinced that had gandhi lived longer he would definitely have weakened India's position vis-a-vis Pak further, because Gandhi, in my view, cared less for the welfare of the country than his own image and reputation as a great man.

 

[suraju06]

Post #123:

Iyer is just a surname, a last name. It is of little value otherwise.

Yes. Only if the first name is David or Solomon or Joseph!!!

 

[kunjuppu]

dear iyer,

i think there is some familiarity here with the various brahmin groups.

recently in chennai, i came across a iyer pastor in a roadside advertisement bible propaganda. not sure if you subscribe to such. please let us know.

a long while ago, we used to have sapr333, who infact hated brahmins, and when outed, was pretty hurt that he should be singled out for 'obfuscation'.

but sapr333 would never answer straight to whether he had a faith (which is ok with us), which faith he adhered (again ok with us).

we do have Yamaka, who was straightforward honest, in his very first post, about his antecedents. so is Nara and others, who have professed other faiths, no faiths, maybe faiths.

but one thing in common all of them did, is to wish tamil brahmins well, and to contribute to diversity of the forum, by being honest and presenting your views.

so, please answer our friend suraju, who did have an indirect query, re whether you swear by the man who died on the cross. we do not, i think, discriminate folks based on their faith, but do despise folks who come under the cover of ofuscating monikers.

hope you dont me asking you this. or...maybe we did discuss this, some time ago. i forget.

thankyouandhaveagoodday.

 

[Raghy]

Sri.Iyer said -

And yes indeed, all roads lead to the West and brahmins are not exempt.

All roads lead to Brahmins and the west is not exempt. I live in the 'west'. I have been noticing this for many years. 'West' could not make any impact on the Brahmins. (Actually I would have extended this to all persons of Indian origin. But since the quoted message singled out Brahmins, I following suit by singling out Brahmins). Not only failing to make an impact, 'west' effectively follows Brahmins.

This is not 'knee jerk' reaction from me. I am more than happy to discuss more on this as and when I find the time.

Cheers!

 

[Iyer]

Shri Iyer,

I feel there is a circular argument fallacy here. The highlighted portion (Aspire to know the purpose for which God created you, Aspire to know the purpose for which God created you) is considered as one of the most important aims of brahminism; you are only couching it in different words.

And none of the gods - abrahamic, hindu, any - has so far let out the secret file containing the plan for any individual life, despite the fact that crores of crores of human lives - right from the primitive hunters' stage to the present day astronauts have come this way and gone for ever without knowing what exactly might have been god's plan for them.

I think the futility of running after such mirage is what possibly Shri sarma-61 also brings out in his post here. Let us forget this one aspect, then the rest of what you list is all prescribed for a brahmin. But you contradict again when you say "Don't aspire to know who a Brahmin is, what is brahminism etc etc. You will never come to an end." This is exactly what Aspire to know the purpose for which God created you, Aspire to know the purpose for which God created you, means. May be you have not read much about advaita.

May I know why you give 'Aspiring to know God's purpose in you' the term 'brahminism'? Does it need a terminology at all?

Regards,
Iyer

 

[Iyer]

Hello Sir, Hope you agree self is also a human being?what stuff are you feeding us??

Does not every scripture prescribe Self-Realization? Above all that, God-Realization reigns supreme.

Regards,
Iyer

 

[Iyer]

Shri Iyer sir,

I did not say ( and I think nor did you say) that all brahmins have to be held in high esteem for their being brahmins.< Dear Sri Sarma-61 jI - We do not allow glorifying violence in this Forum. Please do not post such sentiments anymore. Thanks - KRS>

And, though you haven't asked the question, I do feel convinced that had gandhi lived longer he would definitely have weakened India's position vis-a-vis Pak further, because Gandhi, in my view, cared less for the welfare of the country than his own image and reputation as a great man.

There are certain things passed on to the next generation through genes. But Character and conduct are certainly NOT among them. Being born of so-called-brahmin parents does not ensure you will not turn murderer.

Regards,
Iyer

 

[Iyer]

Sri.Iyer said -



All roads lead to Brahmins and the west is not exempt. I live in the 'west'. I have been noticing this for many years. 'West' could not make any impact on the Brahmins. (Actually I would have extended this to all persons of Indian origin. But since the quoted message singled out Brahmins, I following suit by singling out Brahmins). Not only failing to make an impact, 'west' effectively follows Brahmins.

This is not 'knee jerk' reaction from me. I am more than happy to discuss more on this as and when I find the time.

Cheers!

So-called brahmins are also after material wealth, after American Dollars, desperately seek for American jobs. Birth has not helped them overcome the desire for material wealth.

Regards,
Iyer

 

[Iyer]

dear iyer,

i think there is some familiarity here with the various brahmin groups.

recently in chennai, i came across a iyer pastor in a roadside advertisement bible propaganda. not sure if you subscribe to such. please let us know.

a long while ago, we used to have sapr333, who infact hated brahmins, and when outed, was pretty hurt that he should be singled out for 'obfuscation'.

but sapr333 would never answer straight to whether he had a faith (which is ok with us), which faith he adhered (again ok with us).

we do have Yamaka, who was straightforward honest, in his very first post, about his antecedents. so is Nara and others, who have professed other faiths, no faiths, maybe faiths.

but one thing in common all of them did, is to wish tamil brahmins well, and to contribute to diversity of the forum, by being honest and presenting your views.

so, please answer our friend suraju, who did have an indirect query, re whether you swear by the man who died on the cross. we do not, i think, discriminate folks based on their faith, but do despise folks who come under the cover of ofuscating monikers.

hope you dont me asking you this. or...maybe we did discuss this, some time ago. i forget.

thankyouandhaveagoodday.

Honestly I do not understand your post. You have mentioned something about Iyer Pastor. All that I know is that the CSI (Church of South India) Pastors are addressed and referred to as 'Iyers'. I was confused when I was young. I understood after reading the Tamil Bible. Wherever the words 'Teacher' appears in the English Bible, 'Rabbi' in the original Hebrew, Jesus is addressed as 'Iyerae' in the Tamil Bible. Hence Protestant Pastors are referred to as Iyer which was used to refer to Teachers in general in ancient times in Tamil Nadu.

What is 'obfuscating monikers' ?

I have revealed my origin in an earlier post.

I follow a simple faith.

I am contributing my humble bit for so-called brahmins to become better human beings. And also to become to a better human being by picking up the good from this forum. That is my agenda in this forum.

Regards,
Iyer

 

[raja subramanian]

my humble principle is follow vigorously your own religion (in my case it is hindu tamil brahmin) but respect other religions; the world around us will be a better one to live

 

[Raghy]

So-called brahmins are also after material wealth, after American Dollars, desperately seek for American jobs. Birth has not helped them overcome the desire for material wealth.

Regards,
Iyer

Iyer,

I am discussing only about 'brahmins' since it was called for in this discussion. I am not interested in discussing about 'so- called brahmins', who ever they are. Let me know when you are interested in discussing about Brahmins. They were around thousands of years ago before the America was even 'discovered', thousands of years before the first american dollar was printed.

If you are discussing about the 'so-called brahmins', you could be talking about anyone. I am not so keen to discuss like that.

Cheers!

 

[suraju06]

Dear Mr. Iyer,

Your post # 116 for reference. (I could not reply earlier due to time constraint).

Long before you posted this I knew this is what you are going to come up with. Abstaining from meat is one apparently distinct element found in the so-called brahmins and brahmins seem to pride on this one element. Even this is fading among the so-called-brahmins. Vegetarianism seems to be the only distinguishing factor and sadly it seems to be the only defining factor in the so-called-current-day-brahmins. The ridiculous thing here is you call Vegetarianism a Value, cultural value, value system etc etc. Vegetarianism is not a belonging of the Brahmins.

I am glad you could read my mind and be prepared with your reply. You have stated that “abstaining from meat” (AFM) is an ‘apparently distinct’ element found in Brahmins and that it seems to be the only distinguishing/defining fator. Well there are many other factors. We will come to them later. You have called it ridiculous to call AFM a value,cultural value,part of a value system etc. Do you understand what is a value, a cultural value or a value system? If you know the meaning of all these terms you would not have used the adjective ‘ridiculous’ here. For easy reference I give what I understand by ‘value’ and ‘culture’: Disctionary meaning: Value-(1)moral principles,(2)……… (3)……… (4)something as a principle or a quality,intrinsically valuable or desirable etc.etc..and culture1)the integrated pattern of human knowledge, belief and behavior that depends upon man’s capacity for learning and transmitting knowledge to succeeding generations (2)the customary beliefs,social forms and material traits of a racial,religious or social group passed on to succeeding generations. Now, please answer whether AFM can be called a cultural value or not. If you still think that it is not a value and that it has nothing to do with the culture of brahmins then I have nothing to argue with you. You can be happy with your ‘knowledge’. What I have posted here is for the benefit of the other members of the forum. You have also said that ‘vegetarianism is not a belonging of the brahmins’. Who said it is?

Everyone in general and brahmins in particular seem to be confused about the words culture, value, cultural value, value system etc etc. These terms and terminologies are suffering a lot in the mouths of people. People freely use these terms realizing little their significance. Anything and everything a people group practise is being defended using these terms.

Now I am sure you would have changed your view, after reading the first para here, that When I use these terms I am very well aware of the significance/meaning. It is rather you, who appears to be confused.

Here I wish to quote the words of Jesus, "It is not that which goes inside through the mouth which defiles a man, but that which comes out through the mouth of men. For, that which goes inside throught the mouth, goes into the belly and is cast out. But that which comes out, the blasphemies, etc etc defile a man".

I am unable to agree with what is quoted here from Jesus. For christians it may be unquestionable gospel truth. But hindus believe that whatever you take in through your mouth has a profound influence on your behavior. It is not that it just goes out after passing through your alimentary canal. Brahmins are very particular about taking satvic food-food which will help you maintain calmness and serenity. We do not believe in just saying சமாதானம் சமாதானம் to the man sitting on your left and right during the mass in a church after eating a full plate of chicken with a lot of spices added to it and go home with the satisfaction that we have contributed our mite to the peace in the world/society. You need not go very far to see how these words quoted by you are meaningless. Just take two pegs of scotch whisky and see the effect. Then come back and tell me whether what you took through your mouth went out harmlessly or had effect on your behavior. What comes out depends very much on what goes in. Garbage in results in garbage out-the entrance and exit being the same. If the two pegs become four pegs the person will do unbelievable things-for one who is fully drunk his mother and daughter will appear to be just females.

Food is one element where the Bagwad Gita miserably failed. I have met meat eaters who are humble, polite, calm, composed, kind, merciful, gracious in speach, who are of sound character and conduct.

I do not understand what you are referring to here from BG. Please be explicit. Meat eaters may be good in a hundred situations. But they go with the killing for meat and that one act is enough to tarnish their qualities. They are certainly not merciful as you claim.

I have also met so-called-brahmins who never touched meat and yet are crooked, perverted, guile, arrogant, proud, conceited, ego-centered etc.

If AFM can make men and women angels this planet will have only angels and all animals will live and multiply happily. If the crooked, perverted etc., etc. ‘brahmins’ you have mentioned were not vegetarians they might have become murderers and a menace to the society perhaps. AFM has helped the society!!

What is needed in a man is Character and Conduct. Vegetarian food does not guarantee that. Mastering Sanskrit language, Vedas, Upanishads, Gita does not guarantee that. Waxing eloquent on so-called-hindu scriptures does not guarantee that. Performing Sandhyavandhanam religously, reciting the Sahasranamams regulary, observing austere severities, performing the gayatri japa, madi, pathu, acharam does not guarantee that.

These are all statements of the obvious. Who said all these offer a guarantee. All these help majority of brahmins live a life, the quality of which, is good. If you expect a guarantee, you will be disappointed. But that does not mean that brahmins do not derive a lot of strength from all these things/practices/cultural values for living their life in this world usefully and peacefully and happily.

Living huddled iin Agraharams in yesteryears served a purpose. But that purpose does not exist. Neither does it guarantee sound character and conduct. I was born in the 60s, raised as a so-called-brahmin in Saibaba Colony, Coimbatore which was 100% agraharam. Unfortunately that did not build character or conduct in me. I am descended from a long line of priests which also did not build character and conduct. My cousins who started their priestly career with motorcycle and mobile phones, who have made a fortune in their profession, don't hesitate to compromise and trade character and conduct for anything that would safegaurd their priestly career. This is brahminism in the current day context.

Again it is guaranatee you were looking for which you did not get. Your personal value system depends on the way you were brought up, the environment in which you grew up, your friends, sibblings, parents, the experiences you had gone through in your childhood etc., A brahmin way of life only helps you in this process in some ways. Coimbatore is not a small village and Saibaba colony is not far away from the city. If your experiences did not give you character and good conduct in spite of your being a member of a brahmin family blame yourself for that. Some people never learn nor pick up any values. For every meat eating brahmin there are a hundred thousand vegetarian brahmins living their life quietly and happily;for every priest who short changes you in your rituals there are a thousand others who are sincere deriving more satisfaction from doing their duty; for every IC/IR successful marriage which is flaunted in this forum frequently as the ultimate solution, there are a million intra-C/intra-R marriages which are successful and pleasant. So you have no justification to use a broadbrush to paint a few black-sheeps as represenatative of the community.

And yes indeed, all roads lead to the West and brahmins are not exempt.

In your voyage to the west with a ‘west-ward ho’ be carefull. I find many taking a U turn after travelling some distance. The radius of the arc in the U turn is just directly proportional to the time taken to mature in their outlook. Don’t believe what is said by those who have stayed back. Secretly in the bottom of their heart they are regretting their decision and yearn for what they have lost for ever. Even the Western Express Highway that you have chosen to travel handles two way traffic. There are any number of westerners who are travelling eastward in that same highway. It all depends on how big is your greed for dollars and other fringe sensuous pleasures that the western civilization offers you. Cheers.

 

[prasad1]

Wonderful post#138.
Mr. Raju, this post is beautiful and refutes the allegations posted in previous post.

"you are what you eat" is a famous phrase.
You are what you eat

 

[Iyer]

Dear Mr. Iyer,

Your post # 116 for reference. (I could not reply earlier due to time constraint).



I am glad you could read my mind and be prepared with your reply. You have stated that “abstaining from meat” (AFM) is an ‘apparently distinct’ element found in Brahmins and that it seems to be the only distinguishing/defining fator. Well there are many other factors. We will come to them later. You have called it ridiculous to call AFM a value,cultural value,part of a value system etc. Do you understand what is a value, a cultural value or a value system? If you know the meaning of all these terms you would not have used the adjective ‘ridiculous’ here. For easy reference I give what I understand by ‘value’ and ‘culture’: Disctionary meaning: Value-(1)moral principles,(2)……… (3)……… (4)something as a principle or a quality,intrinsically valuable or desirable etc.etc..and culture1)the integrated pattern of human knowledge, belief and behavior that depends upon man’s capacity for learning and transmitting knowledge to succeeding generations (2)the customary beliefs,social forms and material traits of a racial,religious or social group passed on to succeeding generations. Now, please answer whether AFM can be called a cultural value or not. If you still think that it is not a value and that it has nothing to do with the culture of brahmins then I have nothing to argue with you. You can be happy with your ‘knowledge’. What I have posted here is for the benefit of the other members of the forum. You have also said that ‘vegetarianism is not a belonging of the brahmins’. Who said it is?



Now I am sure you would have changed your view, after reading the first para here, that When I use these terms I am very well aware of the significance/meaning. It is rather you, who appears to be confused.



I am unable to agree with what is quoted here from Jesus. For christians it may be unquestionable gospel truth. But hindus believe that whatever you take in through your mouth has a profound influence on your behavior. It is not that it just goes out after passing through your alimentary canal. Brahmins are very particular about taking satvic food-food which will help you maintain calmness and serenity. We do not believe in just saying சமாதானம் சமாதானம் to the man sitting on your left and right during the mass in a church after eating a full plate of chicken with a lot of spices added to it and go home with the satisfaction that we have contributed our mite to the peace in the world/society. You need not go very far to see how these words quoted by you are meaningless. Just take two pegs of scotch whisky and see the effect. Then come back and tell me whether what you took through your mouth went out harmlessly or had effect on your behavior. What comes out depends very much on what goes in. Garbage in results in garbage out-the entrance and exit being the same. If the two pegs become four pegs the person will do unbelievable things-for one who is fully drunk his mother and daughter will appear to be just females.



I do not understand what you are referring to here from BG. Please be explicit. Meat eaters may be good in a hundred situations. But they go with the killing for meat and that one act is enough to tarnish their qualities. They are certainly not merciful as you claim.



If AFM can make men and women angels this planet will have only angels and all animals will live and multiply happily. If the crooked, perverted etc., etc. ‘brahmins’ you have mentioned were not vegetarians they might have become murderers and a menace to the society perhaps. AFM has helped the society!!



These are all statements of the obvious. Who said all these offer a guarantee. All these help majority of brahmins live a life, the quality of which, is good. If you expect a guarantee, you will be disappointed. But that does not mean that brahmins do not derive a lot of strength from all these things/practices/cultural values for living their life in this world usefully and peacefully and happily.



Again it is guaranatee you were looking for which you did not get. Your personal value system depends on the way you were brought up, the environment in which you grew up, your friends, sibblings, parents, the experiences you had gone through in your childhood etc., A brahmin way of life only helps you in this process in some ways. Coimbatore is not a small village and Saibaba colony is not far away from the city. If your experiences did not give you character and good conduct in spite of your being a member of a brahmin family blame yourself for that. Some people never learn nor pick up any values. For every meat eating brahmin there are a hundred thousand vegetarian brahmins living their life quietly and happily;for every priest who short changes you in your rituals there are a thousand others who are sincere deriving more satisfaction from doing their duty; for every IC/IR successful marriage which is flaunted in this forum frequently as the ultimate solution, there are a million intra-C/intra-R marriages which are successful and pleasant. So you have no justification to use a broadbrush to paint a few black-sheeps as represenatative of the community.



In your voyage to the west with a ‘west-ward ho’ be carefull. I find many taking a U turn after travelling some distance. The radius of the arc in the U turn is just directly proportional to the time taken to mature in their outlook. Don’t believe what is said by those who have stayed back. Secretly in the bottom of their heart they are regretting their decision and yearn for what they have lost for ever. Even the Western Express Highway that you have chosen to travel handles two way traffic. There are any number of westerners who are travelling eastward in that same highway. It all depends on how big is your greed for dollars and other fringe sensuous pleasures that the western civilization offers you. Cheers.

Dear Mr Raju,

Your post sounds more of an emotional outburst than a response. Values, Virtues and Moral Principles etc are for the entire human race and not a belonging to any people group. This is what I am attempting to convey. If you find someone lacking in some ethic or etiquette, please educate him and raise him up to your level of culture or value or whatever it is. If you are lacking in some area, learn from another regardless of who he is. You cannot change the world. At least you can impact the people whom you relate with, interact with. Look at everyone as a human being and not as belonging to some religion or caste or nationality or linguistic group or creed or color. Externals are not real. Take good from every scripture and reject what is not acceptable. As simple as that.

Vegetarianism was imposed on me from birth. At one point of time I had the choice to eat meat. But I chose to abstain from meat for the only reason that I did not like the taste. I do not condemn a meat eater. It is his choice. In no way I am superior as a Vegetarian nor a meat eater inferior.

May continue later.

Evolution is a process. It has not ended.

May God Bless you.

Regards,
Iyer

 

[suraju06]

Dear Mr. Iyer,

your post #140:

So far we have exchanged two or three posts in this thread. I find that you have never answered the questions raised on the points made by you in your previous post. Instead you have the habit of making some general statements which are like what we hear from the pulpit in a church. I can interpret this only this way that you have no answers to my questions/observations other than saying either that I am confused or that I am emotional. So I have come to the conclusion that we can not carry this conversation any further in this format. You can continue with your usual communion messages and ஆவிகளுக்கான எழுப்புதல் பிரசங்கம். I won't be bothering you with my questions. Let others take care of your liberal advices.

Moreover, I will not be coming to this forum for a long time for a certain reasons. So good bye to all.

 

[kunjuppu]

.....

Moreover, I will not be coming to this forum for a long time for a certain reasons. So good bye to all.

oh dear!

dear raju,

i wish you the same as what someone else wished for other recently silent members.

take a hiatus, and i hope you will miss us. i will certainly miss you.

hopefully your absence is due to the forum, and not to something that has happened/ing outside of the forum.

take care.