Brahmin's economic condition

[london swaminathan]

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It looks like Brahmins' economic condition has not improved during over the years.When Kamaraj came to power almost all Nadars became rich, when Bhaktavatsalam came to power amost all Mudlaiyas became rich, but when Rajaji was in power not all Brahmins became rich.Probably he stuck to rules unlike others.

Last week I took some photos in front of Ayodhya Mandap ,Chennai confirming my fear. Is there any organisation that conducts periodical survey about Brahmin's economic condition?

Even if we contribute one pound or one dollar a month towards these poor Brahmins, it will help them to some extent.Please click on the photos or zoom to see full view.

 

[Nacchinarkiniyan]

First of all it is incorrect to say that Nadars became rich during the rule of Kamaraj or Mudaliars became rich during Bakthvathsalam's rule. The majority of Nadars and Mudaliars continued to be poor in spite of their rules. This is a popular misconception which is propagated by political parties.

The economic conditions of the Tamil Brahmins have improved tremendously over the last 60 years. There is no community in India which has seen such a tremendous improvement. When I was young in my village of about 400 Brahmin families there were hardly about 40 rich and upper middle class families. The vast majority were lower middle class and poor. Now the vast majority of the Tamil Brahmins are not poor. The Poor would be about 10% or less. The software revolution has benefited the tamil Brahmin community more than anyone else.

There is no community in Tamil Nadu or for that matter anywhere in India where the entire community is rich. There are many poor Parsees also.

The photograph shows a Brahmin who is selling religious samagri on the street. Last time I was in Chennai I bought some Poonals from the vendor in Mylapore. Instead of paying him the quoted price, I paid him Rs.50 as I thought that is a reasonable amount. He is making a living out of that. What is wrong with that?

One should look at the Parsee community to find the extent of community help and also its limitations. Parsees have created trusts for centuries to help the community. The rich Parsees constructed colonies in Mumbai where they rented flats at very cheap rates. A flat in Colaba was let at a monthly rent of Rs.300. The Parsee panchayat also helps in education, getting jobs, medical aid and all other aspects of help.. The community has got thousand of crores in resources.

But are all the Parsees rich? No.

There are many people who are poor because they are lazy and not willing to do any work. No community should subsidize such people.

There are many organizations which do help poor Brahmins in Tamil Nadu. There are thousands of organization which are a scam. They exploit the sentiment of the NRI to make a fast buck. Please enquire about the organization before you donate money.

Let us refrain from crying hoarse about the reservation policy. No Brahmin who has merit has been denied admission to higher education because of reservation. The people who complain are the Brahmins who have not got sufficient marks.

Show me one instance of a Brahmin rank holder being denied admission because of reservation. I will withdraw my above statement. Many of us made to the top because we got a rank in our examination. Not because we were Brahmins.

Study well. Get a rank. Beat the other guys in their own game. Please for heaven's sake do not tell me that marks are awarded based on caste.

 

[london swaminathan]

Dear Nachinarkiniyan

It is good to know that Brahmins' economic condition has improved. I agree with you that we see rich and poor in all the communities. But is there any survey done by any organisation regarding Brahimins economic condition?

I have learnt a lot about Parsees from your reply. Sometimes they serve as examples to us.
I salute anyone earning money by hard work, like the brahmin in front of Ayodhya mandap, but yet at the same time, I feel that he should have a decent shop to do the business.

Like yourself I also pay more than what is due to such people. This is because I put two pounds a day in he money box in front of God in my prayer room every day. One pound for the community and one pound for religion. I have been doing it successfully for the past five years. But I am going to retire soon. I dont know I will be that charitable. My idea of every one donating at least one pound or one dollar a month came from my personal experience. I do it every day till this day.

One may even contribute to Pidi Arisi Thittam of Kanchi Shankaracharya.

I agree with you that one should be careful in making donations. As for me, I do it personally when I go to India. We also send money to different Veda Patasalas in Palghat, Coimbatore, Tirupparankundram and Kumbhakonam through South Indian Society,UK and London Sath Sangam,UK.

 

[Raji Ram]

......... Last week I took some photos in front of Ayodhya Mandap ,Chennai confirming my fear. .....

Dear Sir,

We find such poor brahmins in front of Siva Vishnu temple in T Nagar and in few other temples also.

One or two brahmins visit all the houses in our colony once in a month and Rs. 10 given to them every

time has now become Rs. 20, because of sharp inflation.

 

[Raji Ram]

........... Study well. Get a rank. Beat the other guys in their own game. Please for heaven's sake do not tell me that marks are awarded based on caste.

Ranks are NOT given based on caste but cut off mark for admission into colleges IS!!

 

[Raji Ram]

Our friend's daughter who got 100% in biology in +2 could not get admission into medical college

just because she was a forward caste Christian!

 

[V.Balasubramani]

Sir, On this tamil New Year day, I pray the Almighty God that he and other such Brahmins be blessed in life with all rich gifts of wealth and health. Prayers go a long way. We at Chennai depend upon them for our 'Pouthram' & Poonal requirements.

 

[கால பைரவன்]

Our friend's daughter who got 100% in biology in +2 could not get admission into medical college

just because she was a forward caste Christian!

Dear Mrs. Raji Ram,

You friend could have tried christian medical college in vellore. Please see Christian Medical College, Vellore > Home

A large percentage of seats (above 50%) are reserved exclusively for christians as this is a minority college.

According to few people I know, it is a top-notch medical college, very beneficial for christian aspirants.

 

[Raji Ram]

......... A large percentage of seats (above 50%) are reserved exclusively for christians as this is a minority college.

According to few people I know, it is a top-notch medical college, very beneficial for christian aspirants.

Dear Sir,

Since she did not get in the general quota, she entered Vellore medical college the next year! :thumb:

Now she is married to a doctor, who happens to be my brother's student.

 

[sangom]

Dear Nachinarkiniyan

It is good to know that Brahmins' economic condition has improved. I agree with you that we see rich and poor in all the communities. But is there any survey done by any organisation regarding Brahimins economic condition?

I have learnt a lot about Parsees from your reply. Sometimes they serve as examples to us.
I salute anyone earning money by hard work, like the brahmin in front of Ayodhya mandap, but yet at the same time, I feel that he should have a decent shop to do the business.

Like yourself I also pay more than what is due to such people. This is because I put two pounds a day in he money box in front of God in my prayer room every day. One pound for the community and one pound for religion. I have been doing it successfully for the past five years. But I am going to retire soon. I dont know I will be that charitable. My idea of every one donating at least one pound or one dollar a month came from my personal experience. I do it every day till this day.

One may even contribute to Pidi Arisi Thittam of Kanchi Shankaracharya.

I agree with you that one should be careful in making donations. As for me, I do it personally when I go to India. We also send money to different Veda Patasalas in Palghat, Coimbatore, Tirupparankundram and Kumbhakonam through South Indian Society,UK and London Sath Sangam,UK.

Shri Swaminathan,

I wish to narrate one real life incident. Back in the 1960's I was working in (today's) Mumbai, staying in a bachelors' cot accommodation (4 people in one room-4 cots) paying Rs. 40/=per month. I used to stay in King's circle just next to the present Shanmukhananda Sabha. (Incidentally I was one of the first batch of members of that Sabha when the inauguration was done.)

During my spare evenings (I used to work in a factory on rotating three-shift system) I used to visit a very small book store, which comprised a single wooden almirah, placed on the door ledge of a street cornet Irani restaurant (run by a Parsee) who had let that ledge portion to a tabra at a very nominal rent. I had some interest in religion and though somewhat foolish, I used to curtail my hotel (eating) expenses and use the few rupees to buy books on religion, mantras, philosophy etc., from this tabra. Since the overheads were practically nil, he used to sell his books at a very small margin of profit. In due course he came to stock pavithrams (not "pouthram" ref. post # 7), darbhai, poonal, different kinds of panchangams, date calenders catering to the religious-minded people and simple pooja accessories, etc.

This gentleman had many children. After a few years his grown-up children used to come and help the father in managing the book-shop. Then I left Mumbai. When I went back after 8 years the bookshop had expanded into the previous Irani hotel area and had become a central hub for all things which tabras needed for their religion, plus, it had a huge collection of books. when I enquired about this to another petty shopkeeper who had been doing his trade from a nearby shop, said that the old tabra's children have purchased the premises and have greatly expanded their father's business. That is the "Giri Trading Agencies" of today!

What I am trying to say is that it is not only through the academic rank route that a tabra can improve his economic condition, he/she can also excel in the business line, if there is the proper business instinct and resourcefulness.

 

[Nacchinarkiniyan]

Ranks are NOT given based on caste but cut off mark for admission into colleges IS!!

If one does not get enough marks to get in the non-reserved quota which is more than 30%, then he/she should not complain. Should have worked harder and got more marks. Or scored higher marks in the entrance examination. In Pune in the sixties it was common to hear about boys/girls dropping out of examinations. It was called drop. When a boy/girl was not confident of getting good marks or one of the examinations went bad, they stopped taking the other papers. Then they took the entire examination a second time. Called repeating. The board deducted 5% for repeating while considering admission to professional courses.

There is no point in blaming the reservation for one's own non-performance.

Brahmin girls/boys used to top the ranks in the examinations in the old days. In my time the top ranks were almost exclusively Brahmin. Does it happen now? Why did this change? You can not blame reservation fr this.

 

[Nacchinarkiniyan]

Shri Swaminathan,

I wish to narrate one real life incident. Back in the 1960's I was working in (today's) Mumbai, staying in a bachelors' cot accommodation (4 people in one room-4 cots) paying Rs. 40/=per month. I used to stay in King's circle just next to the present Shanmukhananda Sabha. (Incidentally I was one of the first batch of members of that Sabha when the inauguration was done.)

During my spare evenings (I used to work in a factory on rotating three-shift system) I used to visit a very small book store, which comprised a single wooden almirah, placed on the door ledge of a street cornet Irani restaurant (run by a Parsee) who had let that ledge portion to a tabra at a very nominal rent. I had some interest in religion and though somewhat foolish, I used to curtail my hotel (eating) expenses and use the few rupees to buy books on religion, mantras, philosophy etc., from this tabra. Since the overheads were practically nil, he used to sell his books at a very small margin of profit. In due course he came to stock pavithrams (not "pouthram" ref. post # 7), darbhai, poonal, different kinds of panchangams, date calenders catering to the religious-minded people and simple pooja accessories, etc.

This gentleman had many children. After a few years his grown-up children used to come and help the father in managing the book-shop. Then I left Mumbai. When I went back after 8 years the bookshop had expanded into the previous Irani hotel area and had become a central hub for all things which tabras needed for their religion, plus, it had a huge collection of books. when I enquired about this to another petty shopkeeper who had been doing his trade from a nearby shop, said that the old tabra's children have purchased the premises and have greatly expanded their father's business. That is the "Giri Trading Agencies" of today!

What I am trying to say is that it is not only through the academic rank route that a tabra can improve his economic condition, he/she can also excel in the business line, if there is the proper business instinct and resourcefulness.

I agree totally. What is required is dedication and hard work. Hard Work. Commitment. As Edison is supposed to have said " Success is 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration.

 

[kunjuppu]

the kerala iyers trust, to which i belong, is sufficiently funded to help out needy brahmins, regardless of kerala or tamil nadu.

the turnaround time is less than a week, and all claims verified by a 3rd party. there is no admin fees. it is managed by a committed retired couple who have recently moved to bangalore from bombay. the whole community participates in verification of a claim..

a couple of people from this very forum have been helped out, at my recommendation.

nowadays we dont get much rquests for education. mostly it is surgery related costs in hospitals which we pay.

feel free to appeal to kerala iyers trust.

certain pockets of poverty, unfortunately, those who are in a condition needing continual help, not sure if kit can help out. most of the contributors are NRI from mid east, though a few like me are from north america.

 

[london swaminathan]

It is great to know the good work of our members to help the needy in the community. Each one is making some contribution to help the poor. Thanks for sharing stories and inspiring others . Little drops make mighty ocean.

 

[Raji Ram]

If one does not get enough marks to get in the non-reserved quota which is more than 30%, then he/she should not complain. ...........

Dear Sir,

You missed the main point! It is better to know the cut off marks in both the cases.

{ 'More than 30%' appears like 'Bata rate' because it is just 31% }

If a girl who gets 92% average and 100% in biology doesn't get admission in a medical college and

another student who gets roughly half the marks enters the same college, it really painis! The cut off

marks have a vast difference. That is my point. Let it be 15% to 20% and I will not complain.

 

[Raghy]

Greetings.

I was an average student. I hailed from a village. Odds are not the same for students from village and from the cities. Other external factors mayalsoaffect a students grade.

But reservation system is barbaric. Different cut off in marks for higher studies is not equitable. In India the caste based education preference is an uncivilized practice. If I scored 70 marks and if that is not enough for my higher studies but set as more than adequate for students from different caste, all I have to say is, such system 'sux'.

Cheers!

 

[Raji Ram]

I wonder where our education system is going!

Some committee members of reputed schools are atrocious enough to ask for 1.5 lakhs donation each,

(three of them usually) for a seat in 'management quota' of that school for a pre K G class admission!

This makes people run crazily after money and wish to earn a lot by hook or crook! I am glad that my

son finished his B Tech from I I T in 1998 and got and admission with a scholarship in M I T Boston. The
education system is very scary now a days! :scared:

 

[கால பைரவன்]

I wonder where our education system is going!

Some committee members of reputed schools are atrocious enough to ask for 1.5 lakhs donation each,

(three of them usually) for a seat in 'management quota' of that school for a pre K G class admission!

This makes people run crazily after money and wish to earn a lot by hook or crook! I am glad that my

son finished his B Tech from I I T in 1998 and got and admission with a scholarship in M I T Boston. The
education system is very scary now a days! :scared:

Dear Mrs. Raji Ram,

This problem is exacerbated because of RTE, which the govt is enforcing on private schools. RTE, many believe is an act to help the poor students to gain good primary and secondary education, while in reality it is another caste-based discrimination practiced by the govt. The govt is supposed to subsidize the education of RTE admitted kids but the schools complain that the government does not cover all the costs. Naturally these costs are transferred to non-RTE kids, i.e. You. If you belong to a caste that comes under general category, the cost of sending your children to good primary schools is going to increase exponentially. Please get used to it!

The RTE act does not apply to minority schools. Start chanting Halleluah instead of Namo Narayanaya. You will stand a better chance. So much for Indian secularism!

 

[sangom]

The posts seem to have veered off to the favourite topic, viz., reservations!

I wish to point out another facet of helping tabras. We have (still) a trust here in Trivandrum, named after Goddess Sarada, which tried to give some minimum help to poor and needy tabra students for higher education, with more emphasis on medical and engineering. The financial help used to be limited, just to help the poor students to tide over the problem of the initial admission expenses, back in the 1970's when this capitation fees etc., had not yet come. A good number of students received the help. and many of them became doctors, engineers, M.A.s/M.Scs, etc. But sadly the repayment of the loans was extremely unsatisfactory and the requests of the trust promoters to such beneficiaries to augment the resources of the trust (even if they don't fully repay the loans received by them), were met with by plain refusals, bad words and disparaging remarks about the measly help which the trust had given, etc. I used to wonder where all those sAtveeka qualities, and honesty of the brahmins had disappeared. As a result, this trust became practically moribund.

I hope this is true only for the Trivandrum-based tabras and the brahmins in TN and elsewhere are more responsive and honest. What is the procedure adopted by KIT please, Shri Kunjuppu?

 

[V.Balasubramani]

Dear Sangom Sir, It is a good thing that you pointed out the mistake in my Post No.7. Thanx.

 

[Nacchinarkiniyan]

We are wrong in judging a community only by economic criterion.

You know something Swaminathan, talk to that Brahmin selling Pooja samagri. You may find that his view of life is totally different from our view.

He may not be bothered about getting a lot of money. He would not move out of Chennai or even T.Nagar even if you offer him a lot of money. There are many Tamil Brahmins like that. Their value system is different. Some people may call them anachronisms of the past. Some try to glorify that system like many threads in this forum. And also what consists of these values.

I accept and appreciate their values. I have called these Brahmins the backbone of our society. Where money is not end of the world or the ultimate attainment.
I used to post about giving up attachment. I was mocked at by members. Countering an opinion is one thing. But ridiculing a concept which Hinduism holds in high esteem is reflective of change in values.

The very fact that many Tamil Brahmins still cherish these values differentiates us from the other communities.

I do not think we have starving Brahmins. A Brahmin boy/girl does not discontinue his/her education because of want of financial resources.

 

[KRS]

Dear Sri Nacchninarkiniyan Ji (at one time, I thought I was bereft of typing the lengthy moniker),

I totally agree with your above posting.

At one time, long ago, I argued in postings in a different Forum, that there are Brahmins among us who still uphold the virtuoes nature of our culture (and this applies to other communities of Hindus too), who should be supported.

Today's view of caste system in a secular world, while rightly judges the system with today's mores as odious, ignores the history of an idealistic system started with good intentions, that as predictably gone awry as any idealistic system in the world has gone (like Communism and Socialism); they fail to take in to account a human being's strong self interest - that his/hers progeny would prosper.

Regards,
KRS

 

[C RAVI]

Shri KRS,


Happy to find you back to the Forum, after nearly a year...

 

[KRS]

Thank you, Sri Ravi Ji,

I was in my mouna period, sad and befuddled. I am out of it now.

Regards,
KRS

 

[Nacchinarkiniyan]

KRS, Happy to see you. Welcome Back.