Brahmin's economic condition

[kunjuppu]

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..I hope this is true only for the Trivandrum-based tabras and the brahmins in TN and elsewhere are more responsive and honest. What is the procedure adopted by KIT please, Shri Kunjuppu?

just go to their website and apply. they will follow up with members in the respective town or nearby town, who will visit the claimant, and verify that the appeal is needy. and honest.

once verified in person, the claim is process and money xferred to the bank account of the needy. as simple as that.

money given, is not expected back.

or alternatively word of mouth from a fellow kit member...that works too..

 

[sangom]

Dear Sri Nacchninarkiniyan Ji (at one time, I thought I was bereft of typing the lengthy moniker),

I totally agree with your above posting.

At one time, long ago, I argued in postings in a different Forum, that there are Brahmins among us who still uphold the virtuoes nature of our culture (and this applies to other communities of Hindus too), who should be supported.

Today's view of caste system in a secular world, while rightly judges the system with today's mores as odious, ignores the history of an idealistic system started with good intentions, that as predictably gone awry as any idealistic system in the world has gone (like Communism and Socialism); they fail to take in to account a human being's strong self interest - that his/hers progeny would prosper.

Regards,
KRS

Dear Shri KRS,

Welcome back. Though we (i.e., you and I) had many differences in views, your absence was something which did make me feel kind of lonely. The new Vijaya year augurs well for TBF, I will say!

 

[palindrome]

just go to their website and apply. they will follow up with members in the respective town or nearby town, who will visit the claimant, and verify that the appeal is needy. and honest.

once verified in person, the claim is process and money xferred to the bank account of the needy. as simple as that.

money given, is not expected back.

or alternatively word of mouth from a fellow kit member...that works too..

can a vaidiki from andhra apply? or is it reserved for tambrams only.

 

[sangom]

We are wrong in judging a community only by economic criterion.

You know something Swaminathan, talk to that Brahmin selling Pooja samagri. You may find that his view of life is totally different from our view.

He may not be bothered about getting a lot of money. He would not move out of Chennai or even T.Nagar even if you offer him a lot of money. There are many Tamil Brahmins like that. Their value system is different. Some people may call them anachronisms of the past. Some try to glorify that system like many threads in this forum. And also what consists of these values.

I accept and appreciate their values. I have called these Brahmins the backbone of our society. Where money is not end of the world or the ultimate attainment.
I used to post about giving up attachment. I was mocked at by members. Countering an opinion is one thing. But ridiculing a concept which Hinduism holds in high esteem is reflective of change in values.

The very fact that many Tamil Brahmins still cherish these values differentiates us from the other communities.

I do not think we have starving Brahmins. A Brahmin boy/girl does not discontinue his/her education because of want of financial resources.

Shri iniyan,

I partly or partially agree with your view. May be some decades ago, there were poor brahmins who did not bother much about getting even the minimum required amount of money; his household would "borrow" small amounts of items of daily requirements (like coffee powder, sugar, rice, urad dal, tamarind or even milk & buttermilk in extreme urgency). Both the borrower and the lender knew that repayment would not be there. Still, the agrahAram style of living and the general tone of life in those days contributed to a living with much less number of wants or necessities way back in those days. It was the vaideekans who were the poorer lot but others did not grudge loaning those items unless one vaideekan was found to have "non-vaideeki" habits such as drinking, or chinnaveedu, or cinema paithiyam, etc. Even then neighbours used to take pity on the poor wife and children of that vaideekan and almost always extended help, though some grudging words might be said.

Today, however, the world has changed a lot. We are all attracted by the modern way of life which makes a lot of gadgets (usually costly for a poor brahmin like the one in the OP image, possibly. Even if a brahmin father is poor but contented, if he has teen-aged children, they will not allow him peace of mind unless at least the bare minimum gadgets like a smart phone/cell phone (now obsolete), colour TV,bike or scooter, modern dress which uses less fabric and costs more (in the case of girls), to name a few. Hence, today's poor brahmins will necessarily have to find out ways to make more and more money, because that is the "thAraka mantra" of present life style. So, the number of poor brahmins who satisfy your imagery may be next to nil, today. (I know some very poor brahmins and I am writing on the basis of what their life today is.)

Giving up attachment is not easy in today's world, when advertisements lure using the route of inciting lust, towards more and more items which become necessities all of a sudden. Brahmins, like the others, will find it difficult to withstand this lure, imo.

 

[kunjuppu]

can a vaidiki from andhra apply? or is it reserved for tambrams only.

frankly i do not know the entire rules. it is a group of guys of the community, who have done well in life, and wished to do something good.

if there is a deserving person in your viewpoint, feel free to suggest.

 

[palindrome]

frankly i do not know the entire rules. it is a group of guys of the community, who have done well in life, and wished to do something good. if there is a deserving person in your viewpoint, feel free to suggest.

Thank you. Will do.

 

[KRS]

Dear Sri Nacchinarkiniyan Ji,

Thank you for your kind words.

Dear Sri Sangom Ji,

Thank you for your kind words. Yes, we see the world differently, based on each of our own unique experiences and circumstances in life. I look forward to exchanging our views and ideas, going forward.

Regards,
KRS

 

[Raji Ram]

Dear K R S Sir,
Nice to see you back after a long break! :welcome:

 

[Raghy]

Sri. KRS, Greetings.

Welcome back. Nice to see your messages.

Cheers!

 

[kr sekar]

Yes, there are poor brahmins sitting on the pavements selling poonal and other things at T Nagar, Mylapore, etc. While we can think of extending them help, it is not correct to bring in Thalaivar Kamaraj or Bhaktavatsalam. At least these leaders did not do anything specifically for anybody, but whatever they did was for the State as a whole. Rajaji was such a great man and statesman that we are just not competent to make any comment about him. Perhaps you have seen only some poor brahmins in Chennai. You go to the villages where agraharams used to exist. Now almost everybody from the community have gone to foreign countries and are well settled. As some great people have said, one is responsible for his own fall and rise and nobody can be blamed for that. All brickbats and bouquets are earned not given. I agree that we should extend our help to the needy, but do not blame others.

 

[tbs]

Sri krs sir,

happy tamil new year and nice to see again....

 

[KRS]

Dear Srimathi Raji Ram Ji,
Dear Sri Raghav Ji,
Dear Sri TBS Ji,

Thank you for your messages, welcoming me back.

Regards,
KRS

 

[ShivKC]

Sh.KRS, welcome back.. Trust, you are finding good health.

 

[KRS]

Thank you, Sri ShivKC Ji.

Regards,
KRS

 

[zebra16]

Shri Swaminathan,

I wish to narrate one real life incident. Back in the 1960's I was working in (today's) Mumbai, staying in a bachelors' cot accommodation (4 people in one room-4 cots) paying Rs. 40/=per month. I used to stay in King's circle just next to the present Shanmukhananda Sabha. (Incidentally I was one of the first batch of members of that Sabha when the inauguration was done.)

During my spare evenings (I used to work in a factory on rotating three-shift system) I used to visit a very small book store, which comprised a single wooden almirah, placed on the door ledge of a street cornet Irani restaurant (run by a Parsee) who had let that ledge portion to a tabra at a very nominal rent. I had some interest in religion and though somewhat foolish, I used to curtail my hotel (eating) expenses and use the few rupees to buy books on religion, mantras, philosophy etc., from this tabra. Since the overheads were practically nil, he used to sell his books at a very small margin of profit. In due course he came to stock pavithrams (not "pouthram" ref. post # 7), darbhai, poonal, different kinds of panchangams, date calenders catering to the religious-minded people and simple pooja accessories, etc.

This gentleman had many children. After a few years his grown-up children used to come and help the father in managing the book-shop. Then I left Mumbai. When I went back after 8 years the bookshop had expanded into the previous Irani hotel area and had become a central hub for all things which tabras needed for their religion, plus, it had a huge collection of books. when I enquired about this to another petty shopkeeper who had been doing his trade from a nearby shop, said that the old tabra's children have purchased the premises and have greatly expanded their father's business. That is the "Giri Trading Agencies" of today!

What I am trying to say is that it is not only through the academic rank route that a tabra can improve his economic condition, he/she can also excel in the business line, if there is the proper business instinct and resourcefulness.

Thank you for the write up on Giri Trading Agencies. It is really an eye opener for many of the brahmins (and also others) that economic condition can be improved considerably if proper business instincts and resourcefulness are applied.

One of the prime conditions, at least in this case, I noted is that it required at least the second generation to carry on and expand the small business enterprise of their father. This aspect is sadly absent in most of the brahmin (and some other) families. Most of the descendants of such entrepreneurs and the very small or micro entrepreneurs themselves felt it was beneath their dignity to continue the petty business and left for employment to far off places. In fact this attitude might have acquired genetic characteristics for we find that for many generations most of the TBs have abandoned the petty business started by their father, widowed mother etc.which provided them idli and sambhar in their indigent days.

The second aspect is if many others tried to replicate the Giri Trading Model the model would probably have collapsed due to excessive competition. May be a near monopoly situation was necessary for the success of the enterprise. Kudos to the senior Giri for recognizing the possibility.

 

[sangom]

Thank you for the write up on Giri Trading Agencies. It is really an eye opener for many of the brahmins (and also others) that economic condition can be improved considerably if proper business instincts and resourcefulness are applied.

One of the prime conditions, at least in this case, I noted is that it required at least the second generation to carry on and expand the small business enterprise of their father. This aspect is sadly absent in most of the brahmin (and some other) families. Most of the descendants of such entrepreneurs and the very small or micro entrepreneurs themselves felt it was beneath their dignity to continue the petty business and left for employment to far off places. In fact this attitude might have acquired genetic characteristics for we find that for many generations most of the TBs have abandoned the petty business started by their father, widowed mother etc.which provided them idli and sambhar in their indigent days.

The second aspect is if many others tried to replicate the Giri Trading Model the model would probably have collapsed due to excessive competition. May be a near monopoly situation was necessary for the success of the enterprise. Kudos to the senior Giri for recognizing the possibility.

I am not sure whether it was the senior man (father) or his children who recognised the business potential. To me it appears that the old man had been very tired due to age and his indigent life, and so perhaps it needed the energy and enterprise of the children. Secondly, the younger generation could satisfy the changing customer needs and provide CDs, DVDs, cassettes, etc., along with books and other old items.

Tabras forsake the micro enterprise of their parent because mostly it is centered on food items, eating mess, etc., and it is very difficult to run such establishments even in a nuclear size, unless one has some political connection. This is true of Kerala and so I am sure this will apply to TN also. Many people leave this line because they can't get such political connections, imo.

 

[fire]

The reservation policy affect every Brahmin.There is no doubt about it. Hindus and Brahmins dont try anything that is legally permissible and helping to the community. This is the blame I can squarely put on Brahmins.All people who settled well, be it Kamal, the Hindu group, Anandha vikadan badmouth brahmins. After all, your fate is determined by your Govt policies,markets and your economic situation of 3 generations max.These politicos hav made 5000 years of Brahmin ancestors responsible for poor state of say , a Dalit family. Solution?Prevent Brahmins from getting their due like US prevented jews till 60s.Shamelessly some of the Indian newspapers back this point of years of oppression. CMC has 85% reservation if Im not wrong. It is nothing less than cruel , to say, to try for 15 seats otherwise you are not eligible. I agree,overall Indian Govt has provided less opportunity to its citizens.Brahmins have a fractional multiplier on that.Its despite these, we have shown progress due to focus in education.

 

[london swaminathan]

There are one or two ways to improve the economic condition of Brahmins.
1.Create a powerful Votebank. Though we are only two percent of the population, Brahmins should vote only for Brahmins or Brahmin supporters (that is who agrees to our demands)
2.Stay away from politics and involve in business like the old Chettiyars and recent Nadars.help one another in starting business.
3.Create a powerful lobby, like the Jews of the Western countries.

The second option involves lot of unethical and immoral, illegal and unlawful activities. Probably right thinking Brahmins may not prefer it.

I have read the opinions of many of our friends here in this blog. If people think of good solutions, it will be great.

 

[H.Krishnamurthy]

Aandava
Please save my community, which is physically weak , totally ignored by Governments.
It is a noble thought sir , please let me know if there is any such arrangement of volunteer contribution. I also request our forum members to help poor eligible brilliant Brahmin students for higher education as most of them are drop outs because of exhorbidant fees structure .
This can be made thru our Maha Swamigal of Kanchi or Sringeri or Jeeyar.

 

[Nacchinarkiniyan]

There are one or two ways to improve the economic condition of Brahmins.
1.Create a powerful Votebank. Though we are only two percent of the population, Brahmins should vote only for Brahmins or Brahmin supporters (that is who agrees to our demands)
2.Stay away from politics and involve in business like the old Chettiyars and recent Nadars.help one another in starting business.
3.Create a powerful lobby, like the Jews of the Western countries.

The second option involves lot of unethical and immoral, illegal and unlawful activities. Probably right thinking Brahmins may not prefer it.

I have read the opinions of many of our friends here in this blog. If people think of good solutions, it will be great.

These have been tired out in U.P where Brahmins form about 15% of the population. They have not been able to achieve any degree of success. Tamil Brahmins are already the biggest Industrial group in Tamil Nadu. They have overtaken the Chettiars. One should remember that the Rothschilds being the richest family in Europe for hundreds of years, did not help the Jews.

 

[sarang]

Good news for UP brahmins. Mayawati, former CM of UP has recently said that brahmins too, like dalits, are an oppressed community and need benefits of reservation.

In the first list of 36 contestants (out of 80) for the next lok sabha elections, 18 are brahmins.

I am not sure whether this is a welcome move.

These have been tired out in U.P where Brahmins form about 15% of the population. They have not been able to achieve any degree of success. Tamil Brahmins are already the biggest Industrial group in Tamil Nadu. They have overtaken the Chettiars. One should remember that the Rothschilds being the richest family in Europe for hundreds of years, did not help the Jews.

 

[sarang]

Points 1 and 3 will not happen. Brahmins are not a cohesive group, and will not unite under any banner - varna, social status, sampradayam. Their strength is in their knowledge, wisdom, respect for right and wrong, respect for their culture and tradition.

Providing cultural, emotional and economic support (when needed) to fellow brahmins will help the community to become strong and guide the nation (not rule).

There are one or two ways to improve the economic condition of Brahmins.
1.Create a powerful Votebank. Though we are only two percent of the population, Brahmins should vote only for Brahmins or Brahmin supporters (that is who agrees to our demands)
2.Stay away from politics and involve in business like the old Chettiyars and recent Nadars.help one another in starting business.
3.Create a powerful lobby, like the Jews of the Western countries.

The second option involves lot of unethical and immoral, illegal and unlawful activities. Probably right thinking Brahmins may not prefer it.

I have read the opinions of many of our friends here in this blog. If people think of good solutions, it will be great.

 

[psnarasimhan]

Mr.Swaminathan,
Those two photos show the pitiable conditions of our brahmin community in Singara Chennai. If you go to village side you will see our brahmin women work in NB homes as servant maids and menials. None of our communities wealthy fellows care for these poor our own brothers and sisters. These fatty persons are prepared to donate lakhs and lakhs of rupees in dollor currencies to ward of their sins, to all sort of religious institutions who are also not interested with these poor souls to uplift their economic conditions. What to do?

 

[kunjuppu]

Mr.Swaminathan,
Those two photos show the pitiable conditions of our brahmin community in Singara Chennai. If you go to village side you will see our brahmin women work in NB homes as servant maids and menials. None of our communities wealthy fellows care for these poor our own brothers and sisters. These fatty persons are prepared to donate lakhs and lakhs of rupees in dollor currencies to ward of their sins, to all sort of religious institutions who are also not interested with these poor souls to uplift their economic conditions. What to do?

PS,

many a time you may find, that due to location or unwilling to relocate, puts people in perpetual poverty. you can constantly hear the lament here in this forum, and others, about the unavaiability of suitable 'brahmin' household help. or that these are too expensive to afford.

now, i think you express your prejudice so blatantly here, re brahmin women working in NB houses. it is this attitude that perhaps has got us to the status of someone shunned by others in the tamil community at large. also have you considered, that these folks may be getting a better salary than what a brahmin household may be willing to pay?

you must have observed that there are brahmin help groups, and they do help where the need is keen, with a view to self improvement, education or health issues. to just lament about poverty at large, without going to specifics, and without even trying to alleviate their condition, i think, it is just not right to blame the society and especially the well off folks at large, for the supposedly abject condition of the poor brahmins.

having said all this, i agree with you, that overall our sense of giving does not normally extend to systametically setting up funds and trusts to help our community. we appear to spend more energy and effort at ayyappan festivals or kumbabishekams.

still i think, folks who need help and ask it, can get it from within our community. sitting in a village and expecting monthly doles or a even a nonexistent job, is simply unrealistic. i think.

 

[kunjuppu]

Aandava
Please save my community, which is physically weak , totally ignored by Governments.
It is a noble thought sir , please let me know if there is any such arrangement of volunteer contribution. I also request our forum members to help poor eligible brilliant Brahmin students for higher education as most of them are drop outs because of exhorbidant fees structure .
This can be made thru our Maha Swamigal of Kanchi or Sringeri or Jeeyar.

krishnamurthi, i think there is sufficient if one looks around, and even asks in this forum. folks are kind and do help. the kerala iyers trus is a charitable organization managed by a retired couple, who have just moved from bombay to bangalore. the admin cost is zero and turnaround time for the funds to reach the needy is a few days.

having said that, i recommend you read the posts and references in this forum, and you will find people have been helped. and in many cases, the helpees have not bothered to reply to queries about what happened to them after they received the money.ok?

<edited. removed the invalid references to the mutts - praveen>