Can brahmins be wealthy?

[B.Krishnamurthy]

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Dear Shri.Sarma-61,
Your information could be authentic and correct.I am not a regular visitor to any mutt in the recent past.
Anything is possible.The present Congress party which is governing the country in coalition with some other parties at the centre was started as a new party in the year 1969 as CONGRESS(INDIRA) when the original party which won freedom for the country under the leadership of Mahatma Gandhi got split.The original congress was renamed as CONGRESS(ORGANISATION).IN the year 1975 or so CONGRESS(O) got merged with the JANATHA PARTY.
Now CONGRESS (INDIRA) which was started in 1969 is celebrating 125 years of its existence.Intelligentia of the country,National Newspapers,ALL TV channels keep mum and do not make any comment.

 

[happyhindu]

Somehow religion and politics do not mix. Moral of the story is -- beware of politicians. If the aim is to safeguard religion, then keep politicians away. Otherwise somehow or the other the politicians will bring the downfall. In matters of religion, honesty is the best policy.

Dear Krishnamurthy sir,
It is not very difficult to prepare a list of spiritual lineage or a geneological lineage based on some knowledge of history. I will give one example:

In recent (british) times one group of padayatchis / pallis claimed to be the zamindars of ariyalur. They claimed to trace their decent from one udaiyar nayinar, who was appointed poligar under vijayanagar rule. These people produced newly prepared copper plate inscription to show to the british. In the copper plate it was written that udaiyar nayinar had 3 sons who was brought to settle on the banks of cauvery by one gajapati chief in 1405. Anyone who knows some history will know that the gajapati kings did not rule in cauvery areas, so there can be no question of a gajapati chief bringing these people to Tanjore.

During the british times, absentee zamindars had become common and supervisor farmers often managed to lay claim of the land supported by the labourers. Once these people became land owners they wud make tall claims. In Andhra, every tom, dick and harry who even managed to own some land used to claim to be suryavanshi or chandravanshi. It is quite well known amongst old timers or elderly people that most people who sanskritised themselves to raju "kshatriyas" throughout Cuddapah were in fact Reddys. But this trend has not changed even today.

Some months back i was reading in THE WEEK magazine how the noveou rich of India were preparing an aristocratic background for themselves (to go with their new found status). It seems the rich people place orders with artisans to create a coat of arms, with insignia, emblem, etc which they display prominently in their homes. Example: If a person is a maratha, he will fake up his descent from rajput chiefs (with a fake list of names of ancestors). So such things are happening even today.

Regards.

 

[Nara]

.... This is the meaning NachchinArkkiniyar gives to the term

[...]

but it is also true that by the technique of 'Agupeyar'--metonymy/synecdoche, the term refers to the people of the brAhmaNa varNa, who in those days, lived a life of prayer, compassion and asceticism.

[...]

the term 'andhaNar' also stands for them, so there is no hijacking involved in it..

Saidevo, when you started out you were quite categorical and claimed grandly, "the great sage of TamizhnADu who is the icon of every Tamizhian, TiruvaLLuvar says that an aNDhaNan has six vocations in his life..." Thiruvalluvar has not said this. What you claim to be Thiruvalluvar's words are in fact only the words of commentators. My challenge to you is to produce one single kural where Thiruvalluvar says this.

Now, Thiruvalluvar himself defines the term andhanar in the kural,

அந்தணர் என்போர் அறவோர் மற்றெவ்யிர்க்கும்
செந்தண்மை பூண்டொழுகலான்
​

This kural comes in the நீத்தார் பெருமை section. It is very clear Thiruvalluvar did not have mere Brahmins in mind here. When he did have Brahmins in his mind he never used the term அந்தணர். Saidevo, I challenge you once again to produce one measly little Kural where Thiruvalluvar himself uses the term அந்தணர் for Brahmin.

Next, you quote நச்சினார்க்கினியார் to claim Thiruvalluvar meant Brahmins when he used the term அந்தணர். In fact we can do one better, even the doyen of commentators of Thirukkural, பரிமேலழகர் says the same thing. In fact he interprets many Kurals in line with, get this, one of the most vile documents ever written, Manu Dharmashasthra. All of these Brahminist commentaries stand discredited except in the eyes of other Brahminists.

Finally, what takes the cake is your claim that Brahmins, in those days, lived a life of prayer, compassion and asceticism. What is the basis for this tall, self-serving claim? Prayer, compassion, and asceticism is not the province of just Brahmins, yet Brahmins routinely and casually claim them as their own unique characteristics. It is precisely this kind of mindset that leads to supremacist feelings. This is the essence of Brahminism. This is the reason why varna system is a fatally flawed system. The sooner Brahmins ditch it the better it is for themselves first and foremost.

Cheers!

 

[Haridasa Siva]

I just want to bring everyone's attention back to the primary question "Can Brahmins be wealthy?". Thanks.

Lokah samasthaa sukhino bhavantu.

 

[Visalakshi Ramani]

dear Mr. Siva,

Use this in future! :focus:

 

[happyhindu]

I feel the discussions are on track. If anthanars are not the same as brahmins, then the title will need to be 'can anthanars and brahmins be wealthy'. Esp since anthanars included the section of philosophers. The problem is the definition of a brahmin varies between the karmakanda and jnanakanda.

Am wondering if anthanars had their origins in the 'old-arya' (dasyu) grouping who were not recognized as brahmins by the vedic religion. Hope someone clarifies my doubt on this.

Regards.

 

[Raghy]

Sow. Happy Hindu, Greetings.

Am wondering if anthanars had their origins in the 'old-arya' (dasyu) grouping who were not recognized as brahmins by the vedic religion. Hope someone clarifies my doubt on this.

'Andhanar' is a Tamizh word. It gets broken as 'Am + ThaNar' 'Am' can mean as 'the one(s) who' (this word can be singular or plural) ; 'thaNar' basically means 'one who is cool (!)'. So, 'Andhanar' means 'a person who upholds honorable deeds; who does not cause harm to any living thing (human or animals). Such a compassionate person is 'andhNar'. Well, this is the meaning without going through literature etc., just a 'lay persons' explanation.

Almost forgot....anyone, irrespective of varna or caste could satisfy these qualities.

Cheers!

 

[Visalakshi Ramani]

Dear Mr. Raghy,

The meanings of the word 'am' in Tamil is beauty, water and cloud.

'thaNmai' means coldness, cool, gentleness and ignorance.

with warm regards,
V.R.

 

[Visalakshi Ramani]

If everybody becomes an 'anthaNar' by becoming a 'cool, beautiful and gentle'

person the world will be so much a better place to live in! :dance:

 

[Raghy]

Sow. Visalakshi Ramani,

Greetings. Thank you very much for your input regarding the meaning of 'andhanar'. Yes, To live amoung 'andhanar' would be very nice.

பூதஞ்சேந்தனார் said exactly the same thing in இனியவை நாற்பது.

அந்தண ரோத்துடைமை ஆற்ற மிகஇனிதே.... -7.

Cheers!

 

[N.R.Ranganathan]

Dear Sri Sarma 61,

Your statement that Sri Kanchi Paramacharya wanted money is not correct. I do not
know from where you have got this information. It is far from truth. His requirements
were minimum - limited and short kashaya vastram, food consisting of aval pori etc,
travelling by foot . He was a great saint.

I shall quote a small incident which would show that he did not encourage raising of
funds to run even a spiritual journal. When the number of subscribers came down
and the publisher was unable to make both ends meet, He advised him : " Continue
publishing the journal if you can afford to do so, or else close it down. Do not seek
even advertisement support from the Industrialists. "

In a world of declining values we are unable to accept and follow their teachings.

 

[sarma-61]

I just want to bring everyone's attention back to the primary question "Can Brahmins be wealthy?". Thanks.

Lokah samasthaa sukhino bhavantu.

Shri Haridasa Siva Sir,

From your writings, posts and all somehow I got a picture that you will be a more orthodox brahmin in appearance than what is in your photo. it is surprising to me.

now, it looks to me that you are rich and westernised and want others to say such people can be brahmins. exactly, yes. that is what i am saying.

 

[Haridasa Siva]

Shri Haridasa Siva Sir,

From your writings, posts and all somehow I got a picture that you will be a more orthodox brahmin in appearance than what is in your photo. it is surprising to me.

now, it looks to me that you are rich and westernised and want others to say such people can be brahmins. exactly, yes. that is what i am saying.

I recollect Shakespeare's quote, "young in mind; in judgement old". Like that, I am "orthodox in mind; westernised in appearance"? And yes. you can stay in South Africa, you can dress western but can still be a brahmin in your mind and can practise brahminical values.

By the way, you can address me Siva.

 

[Visalakshi Ramani]

Dear Mr. Raghy,

Everybody loves to live amidst 'AndhaNar, but unless everybody becomes

an 'andhaNar' how will it be possible?! :director:

with warm regards,
V.R.

 

[Visalakshi Ramani]

dear Mr. Haridasa Siva,

I posted a thread "East meets the West" in which I gave the parallel

poverbs in Tamil and English.

Today I see that you are the 'living example' of the concept 'east meets

West'- West in the exterior and East in the interior.

You write red-hot-poems in Tamil :flame:

and appear to be a really a cool gentlemen. :smow:

with warm regards,
V.R.

 

[sadasivam.sridharan]

I don't think it is wrong to be rich as long as the wealth is earned in the dharmic way,whether he is a brahmin or not.

 

[Haridasa Siva]

dear Mr. Haridasa Siva,

I posted a thread "East meets the West" in which I gave the parallel

poverbs in Tamil and English.

Today I see that you are the 'living example' of the concept 'east meets

West'- West in the exterior and East in the interior.

You write red-hot-poems in Tamil :flame:

and appear to be a really a cool gentlemen. :smow:

with warm regards,
V.R.

I have requested you time and again to address me 'Siva'. Please don't call me "sir" or "Mr". By the way, you remember your comment in one of my English poems wherein you sai I appear to be sensitive. I am glad you have now understood that I am cool. Whether I am a gentleman or not is another issue though.layball:

 

[Visalakshi Ramani]

dear Mr. Haridasa Siva.

yes Sir! you look too cool, too formal and too respectable that
I am UNABLE to address you just as 'siva' anymore.:tea:

Neither my fault...nor yours

with warm regards,
V.R.

 

[Haridasa Siva]

The English saying "Appearance is deceptive" comes to my mind. May be I must post my photo wherein I sport a bermuda and a T-shirt and you would then address me, "dei, Sivakumar"?:whoo:

 

[N.R.Ranganathan]

Dear sir:

Sri Kanchi Paramacharya's views quoted by our learned member was made in a
different context. His view is that strict injunctions are prescribed for brahmins by
the shastras so that he devotes his time in doing the karmas listed in the purva mimasa ,
and of course some other brahmins study vedanta and take to meditation to realise the Self.
This is what is expected of them. He only laments that this is not happening.

It is quite true that in the olden days, brahmins devoted their time to the pursuits prescribed
by the scriptures and others used to take care of them. There was perfect harmony amongst
the various sections of the society. The brahmins did all these for general welfare and with a
spirit of self-sacrifice.

But , with industrialisation and the inflow of foreigners, things have changed
since then. Brahmins could no longer meet the increasing cost of living and
others too felt that the orthodox brahmins are a burden. They felt that the
brahmins do no productive work and economics overtook spiritual considera-
tions.

Slowly the brahmins moved out of their native places and sought jobs to
look after their needs. They are able to do well in professional courses and
are able to get highly remunerative assignments. Some moved out of their
states and some out of the country itself. In India they are just salaried
class, of course those in IT/Pharma industry are paid handsome salaries.
They are able to save a good portion of it. There are a few industrialists,
and you can count them with your fingers.

I do not see anything wrong in brahmins making money earned out of skills.
The word 'amassing' connotes something different. As one friend has put it,
there is nothing wrong in earning good money so long as it is not obtained
by foul means.

And finally, there are still few brahmins who follow the scriptures and live in
poverty, but they do not mind it. Their goal is different deserving admiration.

 

[Haridasa Siva]

Well said. So, atleast I don't have to feel guilty.

 

[N.R.Ranganathan]

It is wise to accept the changes. Surely we can't go back.