Can someone advice me about how to change the Gothram

[krish44]

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I think too much is being made of gothra. one requires a gothra may be once or twice in a lifetime. for marriage the child can use the gothra that suits her best , fathers or step fathers. such things should not come in the way of happy iving

 

[Anand Manohar]

Hi Folks - I just got back .

Ok here is a genuine case. A man [ say X ] married a widow [ say Y ] who already had daughter through
her first husband . When the girl was about 19 yrs old, X's father married Y's daughter. So X became
his own Father's Father In Law.

In the course of time the couple [ X's Dad & Y's daughter ] got a son [ say Z ]

Now, what would be the relationship between X & Z ?

Would X become his sibling or grand father ?

[ I have been careful not to mention Iyer / Iyengar / Naidu / Reddy / Mudaliar / Thevar / Chettiar etc anywhere]

Ha ha, there was this [ much-trashed ] subject of GOTRA - and I had even cited
the Supreme Court Verdict on this.

[ Every once-in-while, drab subjects such as Who is a Brahmin ? / Should Brahmins Eat Meat ?
keep re-incarnating in this Forum - so too with this thing on GOTRA ]

Ok, it's anybody's take - relationship between X & Z Please - fix a Gotra too, if you like.

Yay Yem

 

[renuka]

Hi Folks - I just got back .

Ok here is a genuine case. A man [ say X ] married a widow [ say Y ] who already had daughter through
her first husband . When the girl was about 19 yrs old, X's father married Y's daughter. So X became
his own Father's Father In Law.

In the course of time the couple [ X's Dad & Y's daughter ] got a son [ say Z ]

Now, what would be the relationship between X & Z ?

Would X become his sibling or grand father ?

[ I have been careful not to mention Iyer / Iyengar / Naidu / Reddy / Mudaliar / Thevar / Chettiar etc anywhere]

Ha ha, there was this [ much-trashed ] subject of GOTRA - and I had even cited
the Supreme Court Verdict on this.

[ Every once-in-while, drab subjects such as Who is a Brahmin ? / Should Brahmins Eat Meat ?
keep re-incarnating in this Forum - so too with this thing on GOTRA ]

Ok, it's anybody's take - relationship between X & Z Please - fix a Gotra too, if you like.

Yay Yem

Ok lets try>


That means X's dad married his step grand daughter!

Ok now Z is born to them.

For all biological purposes Z is the half brother of X..so same Gotra cos they have the same father.

Now on relationship grounds Z is also his step daughters son..that makes Z his step grandson but since Z and X have the same father..Gotra is the same.

Simple direct to the point confusion.

 

[Envee]

[h=2]Can someone advise me tharpana manthra (monthly) for Jaya varsham (2014-2015)[/h]

Hi Iam NV Mani from Chennai. My respects to you all.
Kindly anyone can provide the tharpana manthra,for month by month variation only,for the Jaya varsham (2014 - 2015).
Thanks and Regards,
NV Mani
My E-mail address: <[email protected]>








​

 

[Raji Ram]

Dear A M Sir,

What a weird imagination which beats K Balachander's! Are you still in the 19th century?

Now some women are marrying younger men! :thumb: and :moony:

 

[Raji Ram]

Dear Renu,

Many sagothra marriages happen now a days. There was a time when the uncle / athai's husband of the girl will adopt her and give her

in marriage but now a days the parents (of same gothram) give away the daughter in marriage. No inhibitions what so ever. I attended
one such wedding in my extended family. eace:

 

[Raji Ram]

Since the daughter should have the gothram of the person who gives her away in marriage, it is better to adopt the step daughter

with the needed rituals. Sri. Gopalan of our forum could give the correct procedure, I think.

 

[prasad1]

Amji,
Welcome back to the forum.
Yes we beat up the same subjects with different actors, or sometimes the same actors in different role.
In Hare Krishna group all members get gothram at the time of conversion. In the north even some Brahmins do not know their gothram, the priest assigns them a gothram.

GOTHRAM is derived from noun GO + rootverb TRA of Sanskrit which
means -> Cow + Protect. Earlier, 'Gothram' used to be a place
where cattle were protected and reared, usually in hermiatge premises
or AASHRAMAs, since dairy products were much useful for YAJNA or
fire sacrifice. In simple meaning, A GOTRA is a cattle rearing group,
identified with the head of the group, obviously a sage.
Naturally, the same group had parents, brothers, sisters, blood
relatives and were much similar in activities and culture or customs.



Due to scarcity of pasture or climatic abnormalities, the GOTRAs went
nomadic, spreading out to different river valleys and other
fertile lands where they set up their own GOTRAs, of course named
after their leader, a sage. For example, the first known GOTRA,
KASHYAPA gotra, split into VASISHTHA, ATRI, JAMADAGNI, BHARADWAJA,
VISHWAMITRA, GOUTAMA and so on. Since they were Vedic groups,
they excelled in different fields of knowledge and maintained
their 'specialization', which came to symbolize the respective GOTRA.
On marriage, Gotra of wife and cows she carried with her would change
to Gotra of the husband.

From Wiki:
Khap panchayats in Haryana have been making a huge fuss over banning "same gotra marriages." Kadyan Khap International convener Naresh Kadyan had moved a petition seeking amendment to the Hindu Marriage Act (HMA) to legally prohibit marriages in the same gotra. However, the petition was dismissed as withdrawn after a vacation. Bench of Justices S N Dhingra and A K Pathak of the Delhi High Court warned that a heavy cost would be imposed on the petitioner for wasting the time of the court.


In course of the proceedings, the bench observed,


“You don’t know what is a gotra. Which Hindu text prescribes banning of sagotra (same clan) marriage? Why are you wasting the time of the court? If you are not able to substantiate your words, then you should not have come before the court.”


In the court case "Madhavrao vs Raghavendrarao" which involved a Deshastha Brahmin couple, the German scholar Max Mueller's definition of gotra as descending from eight sages and then branching out to several families was thrown out by reputed judges of a Bombay High Court. The court called the idea of Brahmin families descending from an unbroken line of common ancestors as indicated by the names of their respective gotras "impossible to accept." The court consulted relevant Hindu texts and stressed the need for Hindu society and law to keep up with the times, emphasizing that notions of good social behavior and the general ideology of the Hindu society had changed. The court also said that the mass of material in the Hindu texts is so vast and full of contradictions that it is almost an impossible task to reduce it to order and coherence.

 

[Anand Manohar]

Dear Prasad Ji

Wow! What an elaborate explanation - you really have tried to put things in perspective. But, be assured,
somebody will press the "Rewind & Play" button and it will start all over again. We are just NOT getting a
move on, on the subject.

The Mahavrao - Raghavendrarao verdict [ the entire text of which I'd earlier quoted ] ought to have been an
eye-opener for the whole populace, pan India basis. But despite the lapse of over 60 years since the pronouncement, nothing seems to have actually changed.

It is a type of a Medieval mind-set that we seem to be stuck in.

It looks, just like prostitution or alcoholism which are not going to go away by legislation, so too
with the bane of the Hindu society - social stratification.

In my personal capacity, I have shared food, water and space with people of various ethnic origins and nationalities [ of both sexes ], witnessed coups, up-risings, killings, sufferings, starvation, diseases, epidemics, pain and bloodshed that I don't care in the least bit what a Gotram is all about. Ok, before somebody interprets the word 'space' above, I'll confide that it is meant to mean very private and intimate times and moments ah ! tongue-in-the-cheek ?, I care two hoots ]

I have been in situations in refugee camps where under-age and under-nourished girls in advanced stages
of pregnancy had to be cared for - in most cases they neither knew their own parentage nor could authentically
state who could possibly be the parent of the child in their womb or whether the boy / man was alive .
In such situations, the thing that mattered least was the Gotra or the lineage of the girl.

Ok agreed, that was war time - men die. And women are usually the objects of sexual pleasure of moving bands of
soldiers / bandits / hoodlums / goondas / naxalites [ today's terminology ]. Children born from such liaison may be termed
' Children of God ' .

I personally feel it is better to claim to be from the 'Narayana Gotra ' [ or Shiva Gotra if someone wants to split hairs ]
rather than lay a dubious claim to to superior birth by way of quoted lineage supposedly from one of the Sapta Rishis,
through their Patnis or Gana Patnis [ whatever that means ! ]

I guess there is very little that a Visiting Turtle has to contribute to frogs in a well.

Tmt RR - no Mam, this is no K.Balachander yarn and it did not take place in Mazar-E-Sharif !

Yay Yem

 

[prasad1]

Amji,
We miss your sane and learned comments. Other rational commentators having left the forum, the forum is being overrun by people of Neanderthal mentality.

We do need a doze or reality sometimes.

 

[sarang]

Sridharji, you will get all sorts of inane, irrelevant and irresponsible advice from individuals who consider themselves enlightened, modern and progressive. You must approach a learned individual with respect for tradition if you too are in the same wavelength.
Some will guide you to the 'sarakku' kadai when you are looking for a milk booth.

Hi Iam Sridhar from Chennai. Recently married. We got married in a temple and not in the traditional way.

I now want to know how to change the gothram of my wife to my gothram.

Is there some thing of this sort or by literally marring her, changes her gothram to mine ?

Can you please help me in this matter with your proper advice and guidance ?

Regards,

Sridhar.
Email: [email protected]

 

[renuka]

Some will guide you to the 'sarakku' kadai when you are looking for a milk booth.

Sarakku or Milk...both are five elements..why differentiate?


Sarang ji..the OP himself has posted a non traditional question where he got married a Non Traditional way and his 2nd question (could be hypothetical or real??) about adopting and changing a step daughters gotra to the stepdads gotra.

Now when the OP himself asked us members these questions which might not seem very orthodox to the orthodox minded..many of us shared with him our thoughts to help him out with the situation.

You see one needs to decide to follow tradition or not..traditionally remarriage was never permitted so this Gotra change question of divorcee bride or stepdaughter never happened in the past..
so now since remarriage is common and advisable that means people have moved on and changed/broken tradition..so I dont see any logic why some part of tradition like Gotra Shotra need to be followed.

So its not a question of Sarraku or Milk here..its all about being practical.

Members have given their practical opinions here ..dont see any harm in that.

BTW Namma Singaari Sarakku Nalla Sarakku
Summa Gummunnu Eruthu Kick Enakku

 

[tks]

Sridharji, you will get all sorts of inane, irrelevant and irresponsible advice from individuals who consider themselves enlightened, modern and progressive. You must approach a learned individual with respect for tradition if you too are in the same wavelength.
Some will guide you to the 'sarakku' kadai when you are looking for a milk booth.

Sri Sarang

Since there is no 'Like' anymore to click , let me say that I tend to agree with your post.
Often new members come to the forum looking for answers thinking that there are experts here!

There may be few well meaning response, sometimes even with knowledge of traditions which is rare.

But it is often drowned by messages that are mere opinions and possibly prejudices expressed without disclaimer that they are no more knowledgeable than the person who posed the question.

 

[tbs]

Sridharji, you will get all sorts of inane, irrelevant and irresponsible advice from individuals who consider themselves enlightened, modern and progressive. You must approach a learned individual with respect for tradition if you too are in the same wavelength.
Some will guide you to the 'sarakku' kadai when you are looking for a milk booth.

hi sir,

when some body showing normal sarakku kadai is OK....better than TASMAC SARAKKU KADAI....becoz sometimes milk and sarakku

will be same color.....so here we get all kinds of SARAKKU available in our forum....lol

 

[Raji Ram]

Dear T K S Sir,

Agreed with your post. Hence I requested the OP to get advice from Sri. Gopalan.

 

[tbs]

hi

now a days brahmin gals are scarce....very rarely ppl go through gothram/sub sect etc....in 80s....we had a sagotra wedding


in our extended family....it was brahmin love marriage...ppl were saying that she married atleast a brahmin boy....both are

ph.ds and working in govt....

 

[renuka]

hi sir,

when some body showing normal sarakku kadai is OK....better than TASMAC SARAKKU KADAI....becoz sometimes milk and sarakku

will be same color.....so here we get all kinds of SARAKKU available in our forum....lol

As far as I know only Toddy is white like milk but most other Sarakkus are transparent amber or transparent clear in color.

 

[tks]

Dear T K S Sir,

Agreed with your post. Hence I requested the OP to get advice from Sri. Gopalan.

That is a sage advice indeed

 

[Raji Ram]

That is a sage advice indeed

:yo:

 

[prasad1]

There may be few well meaning response, sometimes even with knowledge of traditions which is rare.

But it is often drowned by messages that are mere opinions and possibly prejudices expressed without disclaimer that they are no more knowledgeable than the person who posed the question.

Sir,
I generally agree with your post. But I am going to differ on this issue.
The so called expert is (is the person with the book) in hand. Todays expert is tomorrows obsolete. I used to be database expert in my days, now I am technologically challenged.

Similarly you depend on these so called "experts" in TB cultures, they are as outdated as yesterdays newspaper. The society is changing, new problems arise that these so called experts are not aware of. Like renukaji said the problem presented is unorthodox and solution has to be found in a modern way.

If a taliban marries a Jew and wants bar miz·vah for his step child the local Mulla Or the muslim cleric (expert) can not give any sane advice.

 

[tks]

Sir,
I generally agree with your post. But I am going to differ on this issue.
The so called expert is (is the person with the book) in hand. Todays expert is tomorrows obsolete. I used to be database expert in my days, now I am technologically challenged.

Similarly you depend on these so called "experts" in TB cultures, they are as outdated as yesterdays newspaper. The society is changing, new problems arise that these so called experts are not aware of. Like renukaji said the problem presented is unorthodox and solution has to be found in a modern way.

If a taliban marries a Jew and wants bar miz·vah for his step child the local Mulla Or the muslim cleric (expert) can not give any sane advice.

Sri Prasad

In any question (especially by a new person to the form) there are two types of responses possible. One is a direct answer and the other is about the nature of question itself. If a person responds they can say that they are giving their views about the question and that they have no specific knowledge about the subject matter.

In the example you stated a bonafide Mullah can answer the question. He can say he cannot give a sane advice.

Others can respond that there are no sane answers prefacing mainly for the benfit of the newbie that they are not Mullahs or does not know how to spell such a name but are merely giving their opionion.

You may not agree, but I sensed a sincerity in the question with some wish to 'follow' tradition though the person may have broken some norms while getting married.

The foundation of Hinduism and traditions are actually broad minded though the people calling themselves as followers may not be out of ignorance.

The foundation of Vedic marriage itself is based on friendship and equality. Even Gandharva type marriages are best 'ratified' with vows in Hindu marriages - the translation of key wedding Mantras emphasize lifelong friendship. The Gotra concept is like any other identity. As a new unit the person may want to know what identity makes sense in the backdrop of this equality (when explained). I do not know the traditions to answer but someone else may.

Why dole out unhelpful and possibly prejudiced viewpoints with an air of authority to a possibly a straight question by a newbie? That was my point

 

[prasad1]

Tksji,
I do not treat any question lightly. I assume everyone posting here is honest and I accept it on the face value. Similarly my posting are my best judgement at that time with the available facts.
People posting in public forum expecting opinions from anonymous persons, must know the consequence.
My views may be what they are, you may say they are prejudiced, but I think all views are prejudiced one way or the other. It is the nature of an Individual's views. We all are in the forum pontificating, as if it counts, we may claim to be old and have an air of authority, but that and one dollar may buy you a can of coke, but nothing else.

 

[tks]

Tksji,
I do not treat any question lightly. I assume everyone posting here is honest and I accept it on the face value. Similarly my posting are my best judgement at that time with the available facts.
People posting in public forum expecting opinions from anonymous persons, must know the consequence.
My views may be what they are, you may say they are prejudiced, but I think all views are prejudiced one way or the other. It is the nature of an Individual's views. We all are in the forum pontificating, as if it counts, we may claim to be old and have an air of authority, but that and one dollar may buy you a can of coke, but nothing else.

Sri Prasad

I did not mean to call out your opinion here or make comments about them. I know you are sincere based on your posts.

Direct answers to questions are based on whatever the prevailing understanding may be.

Responses about nature of question and its validity tend to be opinion based only . Here such responses , driven by individual prejudices often drown out responses to the question.

I think Mrs RR and Sarang's responses in my opinion directly provided guidance as to how to obtain answers without passing judgement about the merit of the question. That is what I wanted to communicate

 

[sarang]

Today's acharyas, both vaishnavite and saivite, are aware of and exposed to the world and the happenings. Many sishyas too often face such dilemmas and pose those questions. The gurus are sympathetic and offer answers which are in line with tradition, their understanding of sastras and prevailing social conditions. Answers may differ depending on whether the question is asked pre or post event, but answers are given, and the individual is free to do what he wants. Even when people ask for forgiveness and suggestions for prayaschittas, the answer is mostly - forget the past, do start from today sandhya or pitru karmas etc. Prayaschittas if suggested are for personal purification by recitation of stotras etc.

It is simpler and straight forward if the husband and wife agree to follow the advice or instructions given. Of course they are free to do what they want if the advice is a strict 'no' or unacceptable to them.

The aim is to bring the couple or the repenter/seeker to get back into the community traditions.

Sarakku or Milk...both are five elements..why differentiate?


Sarang ji..the OP himself has posted a non traditional question where he got married a Non Traditional way and his 2nd question (could be hypothetical or real??) about adopting and changing a step daughters gotra to the stepdads gotra.

Now when the OP himself asked us members these questions which might not seem very orthodox to the orthodox minded..many of us shared with him our thoughts to help him out with the situation.

You see one needs to decide to follow tradition or not..traditionally remarriage was never permitted so this Gotra change question of divorcee bride or stepdaughter never happened in the past..
so now since remarriage is common and advisable that means people have moved on and changed/broken tradition..so I dont see any logic why some part of tradition like Gotra Shotra need to be followed.

So its not a question of Sarraku or Milk here..its all about being practical.

Members have given their practical opinions here ..dont see any harm in that.

BTW Namma Singaari Sarakku Nalla Sarakku
Summa Gummunnu Eruthu Kick Enakku

 

[sarang]

I have read about the case of a madwa brahmin husband and his non brahmin wife. The wife was accepted by the husbands's family, but not by hers. She for all practical purposes became a brahmin and her past was never an issue in any event.

Well known case is that of MS Subbulakshmi, despite her mixed parentage and filmi vocation, was wholeheartedly embraced by the brahmin community, shankaracharya and the music loving fraternity. Even amongst my extended relatives, there are a few ladies (60s generation) who have blended well and indistinguishable.