Can Tamil Brahmins be bold to disclose their identity in public?

[krramani]

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Recently in Chennai there was a series of programs called Madras Week Celebrations organised by Adyar Times,Madras Musings and others.One program was `Anglo Indians in Chennai`.Two eminent persons from Anglo Indian community made a very interesting presentation.

We also find many other communities tell others proudly and unhesitatingly about their particular community, through different forums.

Tamil Brahmins have been greatly contribuing to the development of Tamilnadu, Taml Language, literature and arts since early times.Their contribution in 20th century is authentic history.They continue to do so.

Can Tamil Brahmins do what others do viz.proclaim themselves.Actually it is enough for them to draw attention to facts and that is sufficient to claim pride.

But what restrains them?Why they hesitate even to disclose their identity in public? As the Muslim proudly does.

Which are the evil forces that have created the above situation ? Do we see a silver lining - are such forces heading towards the condemnation that they deserve?

 

[saidevo]

The ******* Foundation, under the chief-editorship of the senior journalist shrI K.C.Lakshminarayanan, has published two monumental works on this subject:

tamizhaga andhaNar varalARu--History of the Tamizh brahmins in 2 vols.
ArunthoNDu ATRiya tamizhaga andhaNargaL--Tamizh brahmins known for their great work in 5 vols.

If we as ******* are to be conscious of our altruistic legacy, we need to at least refer to these great publications once in a while.

 

[Nara]

....If we as ******* are to be conscious of our altruistic legacy, we need to at least refer to these great publications once in a while.

who else will pat the brahmin's back but brahmins themselves ....

 

[C RAVI]

All the caste people pat their caste people's back for their contribution. It is NO wrong or funny or ridiculous or most importantly and sensibly meaningless if Brahmins pat their fellow Brahmin's back for their contribution.

We can't' expect neighbours who don't respect any of our family members, to respect our family members. But being one of our family members we tend to respect our other family members.

 

[Govinda]

We can't' expect neighbours who don't respect any of our family members, to respect our family members. But being one of our family members we tend to respect our other family members.

Excellent Attitude! Like Charity, so do all values begin at home. May be which is why we refer Home as 'AGAM' meaning 'aham'.

We have had excellent personalities in our history - who fought the british left and right - Jhansi Rani, Pandey, gokhale, tilak, great Bengal patriots (in British Army), Nobels - Tagore, C.V.Raman, Chandrasekar, Raman Mohan Roy & Rajaji (Social reformers), Aryabhatta, Ramanujam, Anand and most of our cricketers... But, I would be more proud of our vedantic philosophers and the bhakti saints in the midst of violent mughals, the carnatic muscians who kept our hinduism alive. I salute all, from all varnas/faiths equally, those in history of India, who toiled, and also supported and enlivened others .

 

[Subhalakshmi]

Recently in Chennai there was a series of programs called Madras Week Celebrations organised by Adyar Times,Madras Musings and others.One program was `Anglo Indians in Chennai`.Two eminent persons from Anglo Indian community made a very interesting presentation.

We also find many other communities tell others proudly and unhesitatingly about their particular community, through different forums.

Tamil Brahmins have been greatly contribuing to the development of Tamilnadu, Taml Language, literature and arts since early times.Their contribution in 20th century is authentic history.They continue to do so.

Can Tamil Brahmins do what others do viz.proclaim themselves.Actually it is enough for them to draw attention to facts and that is sufficient to claim pride.

But what restrains them?Why they hesitate even to disclose their identity in public? As the Muslim proudly does.

Which are the evil forces that have created the above situation ? Do we see a silver lining - are such forces heading towards the condemnation that they deserve?

I don't understand, is it bad to disclose you are a brahmin.. I must be lost.. I guess I am, I always feel proud who I am.. in fact we all should be it goes to any society or cast or creed.. why should one feel shy to disclose in which community you are born in.. Perhaps things are different in Tamil nadu that I am not aware of.. is there a problem these days??? please educate me..

 

[Nara]

.... I salute all, from all varnas/faiths equally, those in history of India, who toiled, and also supported and enlivened others .

But it takes a Brahmin to write a history of their own contributions, which is alright I suppose, just that blowing ones own trumpet is unseemly.

In any case, I was amused by the claim of altruism, thats all.

BTW, Bushu, the claim of OP that brahmins don't or can't proclaim themselves as Brahmins is demonstrably false. There may be some who may feel embarrassed, that is an individual preference. Most TBs do not hide their caste and do exhibit it openly. This is evident like உள்ளங்கை நெல்லிக்கனி given this web site bears the name it does.

Within the confines of brhmnical matams they can and do openly practice their Varna based supremacist ideology. They can even advocate in public how great Varna system really is and that it is badly misunderstood due to propaganda by politicians with hidden agenda. The only thing they cannot do is have a public meeting and in that meeting advocate untouchability, that is illegal.

Cheers!

 

[Yamaka]

Recently in Chennai there was a series of programs called Madras Week Celebrations organised by Adyar Times,Madras Musings and others.One program was `Anglo Indians in Chennai`.Two eminent persons from Anglo Indian community made a very interesting presentation.

We also find many other communities tell others proudly and unhesitatingly about their particular community, through different forums.

Tamil Brahmins have been greatly contribuing to the development of Tamilnadu, Taml Language, literature and arts since early times.Their contribution in 20th century is authentic history.They continue to do so.

Can Tamil Brahmins do what others do viz.proclaim themselves.Actually it is enough for them to draw attention to facts and that is sufficient to claim pride.

But what restrains them?Why they hesitate even to disclose their identity in public? As the Muslim proudly does.

Which are the evil forces that have created the above situation ? Do we see a silver lining - are such forces heading towards the condemnation that they deserve?

krramani:

"Can Tamil Brahmins do what others do viz.proclaim themselves.Actually it is enough for them to draw attention to facts and that is sufficient to claim pride.

But what restrains them?Why they hesitate even to disclose their identity in public?"

I have serious doubts about the basic premise of these questions! I don't believe vast majority of TBs ARE shy or reluctant of disclosing their identity in public....

Perhaps, most of them feel that it is UNNECESSARY to show off their Community's achievements and contributions..

Or perhaps, the problem lies with YOU, the observer!

Please CHANGE the Questions! You want to get answers for something that's non-existent, I am afraid.

Cheers.

 

[sarang]

The ******* Foundation, under the chief-editorship of the senior journalist shrI K.C.Lakshminarayanan, has published two monumental works on this subject:

tamizhaga andhaNar varalARu--History of the Tamizh brahmins in 2 vols.
ArunthoNDu ATRiya tamizhaga andhaNargaL--Tamizh brahmins known for their great work in 5 vols.

If we as ******* are to be conscious of our altruistic legacy, we need to at least refer to these great publications once in a while.

Some chapters of Deivathin kural, these two books and cho's books on brahmins give valuable information on the greatness and on the current plight of tamil brahmins.

 

[renuka]

When I was a student in India..we never faced any situation where someone was proclaiming they are from this community etc and shouting on the top of the roof about it.
Everyone was just friends.My circle of friends had all types of Indians from Jammu to Tamil Nadu.I never felt any different from anyone and neither did my friends feel that we are all different from each other cos all of us had similar interest and loved each other as fellow friends.

I still remember my friend from Jammu( Jammu guy) asking me to call up his girlfriend (a telegu girl) who had gone home for holidays and he was scared to call her house and so I had helped him..called her and passed the phone to him.Still remember the happiness in his voice when he was speaking to her.

Our group had all sorts of caste ranging from Sharmas,Auroras,Gounders,Devars,Reddys,Padayachis,Pathaks,Duttas..that too from different countries and also India and none of us felt different.

I feel when we see the humans in each other and learn to love everyone as your own the feeling of seperate identity will just cease to exists.

 

[biswa]

Well said Renuka. I myself have never been asked the caste question in any important situation, ever.

I think I may know why this question is discussed though: generation gap.

 

[Subhalakshmi]

Renuka, you are so right.. friendship happens and that is what is important, regardless of your caste.. and nobody cares at that age anyway..
Unlike Biswa, I have been asked about my caste, when I was in India, but later here in the US there was no question at all, at least I had not encountered any, I have tons of friends who are not brahmins and they all know I am a brahmin and we have no difference.. but once one of my friends did say to me.. that sometimes, one or two of her friends do treat her differently, and I felt bad as to why it has to be so..

 

[saidevo]

namaste Nara.

It is easy for you to say whatever without having a look at the book volumes or the reviews they received. The Tamizhaga brahmins history book has received favourable reviews from 'Dinaththanthi', 'News Today', 'Anna nagar Times', 'Apollo Times', and 'Vijaya Bharatam'. Now, you tell me if these magazines are of brahmin-administration or pro-brahmin.

As for KCL's great works, check the reviews in this link:
"kc lakshminarayanan" - Google Search

As for your calling the altruism of brahmins 'clam', I only need to remind you that the very brAhmaNa varNa is conceived to be altruistic in their nature and works, with the attitude lokA samasta sukhino bhavantu. The community has in the past and present maintained this attitude by and large. Exceptions are always there in every community, class and caste; and they don't make the rule.

who else will pat the brahmin's back but brahmins themselves ....

 

[kameshratnam]

I have just made some comments on a social networking site and the followers of Periyar immediately said "Parpara naye" and u are aryans and all those stuff. they cannot have a constructive argument at all.

 

[renuka]

I have just made some comments on a social networking site and the followers of Periyar immediately said "Parpara naye" and u are aryans and all those stuff. they cannot have a constructive argument at all.

Even though I am a Non Brahmin..I somehow have not much regard for Periyar cos I feel deep down inside he feared Non Hindus.
I wonder if he dared put a garland of slippers on any Non Hindu idol.I can be 100% sure he would have had no guts.

I am suprised why he was not shot dead for that act.Too much Ahimsa in the blood of Hindus?

 

[kameshratnam]

I have been reading the articles that are coming in the thuglak magazine and i was shocked to note that at the age of 76 he married a 26 year old girl whom he called as his daughter. No wonder Anna immediately came out and formed the DMK.
Non brahmins hail him as their Savior

 

[renuka]

I have been reading the articles that are coming in the thuglak magazine and i was shocked to note that at the age of 76 he married a 26 year old girl whom he called as his daughter. No wonder Anna immediately came out and formed the DMK.
Non brahmins hail him as their Savior

I feel anyone who wants to start a revolution to fight for equality thats fine.
But in that process one shouldn't supress any community too.
All types and sub types have the right to co exists with each other.

Not all Non Brahmins hold him as their Saviour.

Many only hail a person who has respect for everyone including God (even if he is an atheist its fine as long he doesnt degrade God).
Cos most so called Atheist of Indian origin only wag their tail with Hindus..so thats just hypocrisy.

On his personal life..i have no problems with that cos Love can be Blinding to some and we didnt really know his personal feelings and what he needed when he was older.
Sometimes people marry for love and companionship and nothing more.

 

[kameshratnam]

I know a girl who is so called follower of periyar and she wore slippers inside the tanjore temple and when questioned, she started asking questions which were basically based on faith. Her parents follow Jesus Christ and hence they are Christians. You cannot do all this saying you are a follower of periyar. She does this wantedly and many a time she has been warned but she is proud that she does all this.

What ever periyar has said about Women's independence and freedom: Why do women need thaali? Kaarpu is a deterrent to social independence. So what periyar says is women can have sex and lead life with as many men as they want.

Brahmins cannot be bold to disclose their identity because the so called society will not come to support you when you are attacked. When petrol bombs were hurled at ayodhya mandapam, who came to support us? No one will come

 

[sarang]

Everyone must have gone through a similar route. In school, we had 60 (45+15) brahmins out of 315 students. In engineering there were about 20 brahmins out of 120 students. In all the places I have worked, % of brahmims was between 20 and 25%; there was no anti brahmin feeling - explicit or implicit - anywhere. Roughly half were practicing type - forehead marks, sandhya etc. There was no isolation or heckling; mixing and friendship followed a natural rhythm and loose talk and not so green jokes were exchanged by all.

To sum up, retaining one's identity and a balanced social life is possible without generating animosity. EVR type brahmin haters are negligible in number; they cannot destroy the brahmin community.

I am sure brahmins from all social levels will gain more respect (rather will not lose respect) if they visibly practice their nitya karmas.

When I was a student in India..we never faced any situation where someone was proclaiming they are from this community etc and shouting on the top of the roof about it.
Everyone was just friends.My circle of friends had all types of Indians from Jammu to Tamil Nadu.I never felt any different from anyone and neither did my friends feel that we are all different from each other cos all of us had similar interest and loved each other as fellow friends.

I still remember my friend from Jammu( Jammu guy) asking me to call up his girlfriend (a telegu girl) who had gone home for holidays and he was scared to call her house and so I had helped him..called her and passed the phone to him.Still remember the happiness in his voice when he was speaking to her.

Our group had all sorts of caste ranging from Sharmas,Auroras,Gounders,Devars,Reddys,Padayachis,Pathaks,Duttas..that too from different countries and also India and none of us felt different.

I feel when we see the humans in each other and learn to love everyone as your own the feeling of seperate identity will just cease to exists.

 

[sarang]

EVR would have beat a hasty retreat had he chappal-garlanded any of the village deities or islam-christian religious symbols. Now, if ambedkar's statue or thevar's statue is desecrated, the situation goes totally out of control, sometimes leading to police firing.

Even though I am a Non Brahmin..I somehow have not much regard for Periyar cos I feel deep down inside he feared Non Hindus.
I wonder if he dared put a garland of slippers on any Non Hindu idol.I can be 100% sure he would have had no guts.

I am suprised why he was not shot dead for that act.Too much Ahimsa in the blood of Hindus?

 

[Brahmanyan]

Any one who strives to help the community to come out of wrong doings against the unfortunates and blind beliefs should be appreciated. Periyar was one among them.We may not agree with the methods used by him, but the end result of his movement should be appreciated. I have heard lectures of Periyar in his inimitable Tamil abusing his followers as well for not adhering to his reformist calls. His personal life was an open book. He started his political career with Indian National Congress. It is strange why his good work in propagation of Khadi, eradication of untouchability, abolition of liquor, temple entry are forgotten when we talk about Periyar? Tamils are intelligent people, they took all that were good from Periyar's philosophy and rejected others, you can see this in today's Tamil Nadu social structure and Politics.

Regards,
Brahmanyan,
Bangalore.

 

[Nara]

....It is easy for you to say whatever without having a look at the book volumes or the reviews they received.

Saidevo, did I say anything about the books, no sir. All I said was to blow ones own trumpet is unseemly. Brahmins having been the intellectual class, because of the leisure time they enjoyed from living on the labor of others, of course have made significant contribution to literature and other fine things in life in the past. This is nothing to crow about.

Mercifully, those days are gone. The future belongs to everyone, irrespective of caste. Art and poetry will not be looked at through the narrow parochial glass of caste, it will be enjoyed for what it is.

I only need to remind you that the very brAhmaNa varNa is conceived to be altruistic in their nature and works, with the attitude lokA samasta sukhino bhavantu. The community has in the past and present maintained this attitude by and large. Exceptions are always there in every community, class and caste; and they don't make the rule.

This is like a rapist telling his victim he did it out of a sense of self-sacrifice. It is this outrageously hypocritical attitude that the others find hard to stomach.

Saidevo, what you say as exceptions is the overwhelming majority. The very Varna system is conceived of to stratify, dominate, and render any opposition to their hegemony inept. Please read Babasaheb Ambedkar's Annihilation of Caste to get a true picture of Varna system from bottom up.

If this Varna system is so good, then those who are at the bottom must love it just as much as the ones at the top, how come they hate it? Think about that for a change.

The more TBs tout Varna system along these lines, the Brahmins deserve every bit of derision they get from the rest of the society.

 

[sarang]

There may be derision from some, but there is also respect and praise from many common folk. "Potruvar potrattum, thutruvar thutrattum, ellam pokattum kannanukke"

majority of practising brahmins do not care; so long as the abusing crowd does not resort to violence. I wish, the dalits who are abused by their high caste neighbors, ignore them and climb up the social ladder fully utilising the facilities and opportunities available. They will then become a strong community. If only the government/ngos build the necessary infrastructure - well, electricity, road, irrigation, land, temple etc. in dalit areas, which they can claim as their own, their self worth will increase; they will become more confident to face other issues.

Hostels meant for sc/st students in my town are in a very sorry condition, over-occupied, infested with rowdy elements and conveniently ignored by brahmin bashing government officials/politicians. They know, improving the plight of dalits will only drive them away from being a pliable vote bank.

Varna touting brahmins will become eligible to claim benefits under the reservation system, if they become vulnerable and untouchable. That day will never come.

 

[Yamaka]

Even though I am a Non Brahmin..I somehow have not much regard for Periyar cos I feel deep down inside he feared Non Hindus.
I wonder if he dared put a garland of slippers on any Non Hindu idol.I can be 100% sure he would have had no guts.

I am suprised why he was not shot dead for that act.Too much Ahimsa in the blood of Hindus?

Hi Renukka:

You just don't know who EVR was... He was one FEARLESS Social Reformer... before his fiery speeches, everyone wilted....

Nobody had the guts to speak a word against him...because he was for the oppressed and down-trodden...he was riling against the Upper Caste Anarchy....

You don't find such leaders these days.... Even if you go before him with your guns... they will fail to shoot...

That was the fervor and energy that EVR generated!

Younger generation must read their history well...

 

[renuka]

Hi Renukka:

You just don't know who EVR was... He was one FEARLESS Social Reformer... before his fiery speeches, everyone wilted....

Nobody had the guts to speak a word against him...because he was for the oppressed and down-trodden...he was riling against the Upper Caste Anarchy....

You don't find such leaders these days.... Even if you go before him with your guns... they will fail to shoot...

That was the fervor and energy that EVR generated!

Younger generation must read their history well...

Wow the guns wont shoot? hey like some scene from a Vijaykanth's movie.
Remember this scene where Raghuvaran will be telling his army officers that the bullet to kill Vijaykanth has not been made yet.

Cheers!!!