Can we practise both Gnana Marga and Bhakthi Marga together?

[Srimadhan]

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Mostly people travel either in Gnana Marga or Bhakthi Marga.

Gnana marga i.e Meditating in Chakras - is the one where in the seeker opens the eye and walks the path. Hence he knows where he goes and what he does. The process is slow.

Bhakthi Marga is the one where in the seeker closes the eye and walks the path of Bhakthi. Hence the process is very fast but the way they have traveled is not known.

There are both advantages and disadvantages to both the marga's. The question here is can we practise both the marga's together?

I humbly feel that they can be practised together. But there should be right balance. The right balance can be found by experience or by guru's guidance. Suggest that the seeker takes the help of guru who has traveled in both the paths rather than experience path.

I would like to quote an example how we can travel together. In Gnana Marga while meditating in Chakras, we can chant mantra's i.e Gayathri Mantra in each of these chakras.

Meditating in Chakras would be in the Gnana Marga category while chanting Gayatri Mantra is in Bakthi Marga. By mixing both, we get the advantage of both these marga's. By this, the disadvantages of both the marga's are eliminated.

This will speed up the whole process!.

 

[renuka]

This will speed up the whole process!.

What is the hurry??

I am reminded of a story of a 2 men who approached a sage and asked the sage when will they attain Moksha.

So the sage pointed to a leave ladden the tree and showed both the men...as many as there are leaves in the tree that is the amount of births you both have to take to gain Moskha.

The 1st man was disappointed..he thought "OMG I have been practicing Sadhana for so long and still so long more to go"

The 2nd man was happy and started jumping in joy..he thought "OMG that means I will reach Moksha finally one day"

So as I said "what is the hurry?"


Frankly speaking there is no such thing as the perfect path...every path is accepted by God and just do good and be good...keep the fact in mind that Moksha lies ahead no matter even if it takes several Kalpas..no need to go full speed ahead or even go in reverse gear.

The Rigveda saying

|| Aano bhadra krtavo yantu vishwatah ||

Let noble thoughts come to us from all directions of the universe

says it all.

Keep the mind open to inputs from every direction..be it Jnaana or Karma or Bhakti and for all we know there actually might be a secret well guarded path for a seeker to follow when he reaches the final hurdle..after all do we really ever know anyone who has reached there and returned to tell us??

Lord Krishna said that

Among many thousands of human beings, very few aspire for this union, and even among those who aspire for it, few ever reach the pinnacle of spiritual realisation.

So the final journey none of us really know...hence take our time...no hurry.

 

[sangom]

Mostly people travel either in Gnana Marga or Bhakthi Marga.

Gnana marga i.e Meditating in Chakras - is the one where in the seeker opens the eye and walks the path. Hence he knows where he goes and what he does. The process is slow.

Bhakthi Marga is the one where in the seeker closes the eye and walks the path of Bhakthi. Hence the process is very fast but the way they have traveled is not known.

There are both advantages and disadvantages to both the marga's. The question here is can we practise both the marga's together?

I humbly feel that they can be practised together. But there should be right balance. The right balance can be found by experience or by guru's guidance. Suggest that the seeker takes the help of guru who has traveled in both the paths rather than experience path.

I would like to quote an example how we can travel together. In Gnana Marga while meditating in Chakras, we can chant mantra's i.e Gayathri Mantra in each of these chakras.

Meditating in Chakras would be in the Gnana Marga category while chanting Gayatri Mantra is in Bakthi Marga. By mixing both, we get the advantage of both these marga's. By this, the disadvantages of both the marga's are eliminated.

This will speed up the whole process!.

Shri Srimadhan,

I do not know anything about you, your age or whether you are a smArtha or vaiShNava, etc. But it seems to me, especially since you of your own accord, have started this thread, that you have been completely confused about many fundamental points. Let me list these as under, seriatim:—

1. jnAna mArga is not meditating in (or, on?) chakras. This has much of Tantric element in it and springs from our Yoga-sAmkhya darSana as also the Kundalinee yoga which is mainly tantric. According to our original vedic injunctions, the practice of tantra is prohibited. Hence, this is an "avaideeki" practice.

2. Chanting gAyatree is not "bhakti mArga" because, first of all, there is no "bhakti" in that rik; it is purely a prayer, by one of the vedic seers, possibly starving acutely, to the savitr god or deity to show him the place where some sustenance (annam) could be found. (For understanding the truth of this statement, one will have to know a bit of sanskrit and also understand the complete Rigvedic sUktam (III-62).

Much has been made of this gAyatree but all those efforts cannot hide the simple meaning and context of this rik.

3. For those who subscribe to advaita, sAmkhya, yOga and bhakti mArgas have been stated by Sankara as incapable of taking one to brahman realization. He states that only deep self-contemplation (nididhyAsana) can lead one to BrahmajnAna and hence to mOkSha.

4. What is mOkSha? Is it something to be aspired for? What are its advantages to the person concerned as also to this jagat? Can we be sure that any man or animal ever got mOksha?

According to the Rigveda, there is no rebirth for any one, even the Panchama or the ChaNDALa. From that we have regressed to rebirth and mOkSha without any rational evidence whatsoever for the existence of individualized souls with their Adhar card numbers given by god and the concept of a final liberation. Is it at all worth the efforts? Is it not a blind leading another blind, deaf and mute person?

5. Only one thing is sure in this world, right from the time of the hoary Rigveda, and it is that Man dies and does not return with past memory here. Life is thus a very short drama here in "all the world's a stage". Let us try to live our lives as fruitfully as good human beings and let us not run after the golden deer of mOkSha - and the Chakras, Bhaktimarga and so on.

 

[Srimadhan]

Sangom Sir/Renuka Madam

Thanks very much for your detailed explanation. I would go in detail as much as possible.

I am aged 38. Married and has a girl child of 8 years. I have been practising meditation for about 17 years. I am in the Website design business. My meditation time ranges from 3-5 hours every day. I am a born vaishnavite. My guru is a Saivaite and hence I am both. I spend time both for my family and for my business. Though balancing is a tough act. I try and keep the balance

I come in the Sishya Parampa of Shri Adi Shankara, Shri Trilinga Swamigal, Shri Vallalar & Shri Narayana Tithar. Probably I explain in details about my parampara later.

I will take each and every point at a time

1. I would like to politely disagree that Meditating in Chakras is a avaideet practise. This is one of workship's prescribed by Lord Siva himself in the book named Vigyan Bairav Tantra. Tantric is not some thing which is different than we do. Kundalini Yoga is one of the ancient yoga's prescibed by our Yogi's. For example Kundalini Maharishi's Jeeva Samadhi is in the Vakrakaliamman Temple near the Chandramouleeswarar Shrine. Whatever stated by Lord Siva CANNOT be a avaideek practise. You can see a lot of references to Chakra's in Tirumoolar's Tirumandiram, Lalitha Sahasranamam etc.They can be followed or need not be followed but stating it as a avaideek practise is not acceptable.

Would like to politely state that all the marga's go hand in hand together.

2. Chanting any mantram is a bhakthi marga. Please refer to Narada Bhakthi Sutra's wherein the Bhakthi is defined by a lot of saints as known to them.

3. I am not talking here about the Jnana as contemplated by Shri Adi Shankara. I am talking about the Jnana Marga or the path.

4 & 5. I am not sure whether you will agree to what Kanchi Periyava has stated.
There are three best wealth of each person
a. Taking birth as a Human
b. Walking in the path towards Self Realisation (The thirst to realise one self)
c. Get a guru (who is self-realised)

I am not talking about a golden deer here. I am talking here the language of the great saints.

With humbleness, I would like to point out that "We people can chat, see movie etc etc waning our time away but will not find time to pray god/travel towards what we are born for". We are born to realise ourselves. Hence would it not be better to make some time for ourselves. This is definitely not a wild goose chase.

The end result 'Moksha" does not matter. The journey towards it is important. That is why our ancestors have built a lot of temples so that we Manusha's can move towards the higher.

I do not want people to hurry towards Moksha. But if there is a path which helps the people to growth in both Bhakthi and Jnana Marga, why not we let people know and leave the choice to follow or not to follow to the practisioner.

As this is a very big topic for discussion, would prefer to take it off line.

Please excuse me if I had hurt you in any way by giving my opinion/thought on all this.


Regards
Srimadhan

 

[vishviyer]

Dear Sri. Shrimadan,

Such a profound view ! I am extremely fascinated by your posts and would like to correspond with you. Your focus is on practical aspects and to move on. And I am glad you are not an 'armchair quarterback'. My email id is [email protected]. Would you be kind enough to let me have yours ?

Aum Chivaya Namah

Vish V Iyer MS FRCS

 

[vishviyer]

Dear Sri. Srimadhan,

Cntinuing with my previous post, what really strikes me in what you had mentioned is the daily practice of Sandhyavandanam. When you say Praanavasya Rishi...and invoke all the rishis, you focus on the Sahasrhara chakra, then on to the Goddesses Gayatri, Ushnuk etc. at the throat chakra and the gods Agni, Vayu etc at the heart chakra. What we do next epitomizes what you had mentioned about the combination of Bhakthi and Gnana margams. You chant Gayatri the ultimate mantra and invoke Brahma with Purakam, Vishnu with Rechkam and Siva with Kumbakam. What you do rhymes well with the established practices.

Aum Chivaya NaNamah

Vish V Iyer MS FRCS

 

[renuka]

Sangom Sir/Renuka Madam

Thanks very much for your detailed explanation. I would go in detail as much as possible.

I am aged 38. Married and has a girl child of 8 years. I have been practising meditation for about 17 years. I am in the Website design business. My meditation time ranges from 3-5 hours every day. I am a born vaishnavite. My guru is a Saivaite and hence I am both. I spend time both for my family and for my business. Though balancing is a tough act. I try and keep the balance

I come in the Sishya Parampa of Shri Adi Shankara, Shri Trilinga Swamigal, Shri Vallalar & Shri Narayana Tithar. Probably I explain in details about my parampara later.

I will take each and every point at a time

1. I would like to politely disagree that Meditating in Chakras is a avaideet practise. This is one of workship's prescribed by Lord Siva himself in the book named Vigyan Bairav Tantra. Tantric is not some thing which is different than we do. Kundalini Yoga is one of the ancient yoga's prescibed by our Yogi's. For example Kundalini Maharishi's Jeeva Samadhi is in the Vakrakaliamman Temple near the Chandramouleeswarar Shrine. Whatever stated by Lord Siva CANNOT be a avaideek practise. You can see a lot of references to Chakra's in Tirumoolar's Tirumandiram, Lalitha Sahasranamam etc.They can be followed or need not be followed but stating it as a avaideek practise is not acceptable.

Would like to politely state that all the marga's go hand in hand together.

2. Chanting any mantram is a bhakthi marga. Please refer to Narada Bhakthi Sutra's wherein the Bhakthi is defined by a lot of saints as known to them.

3. I am not talking here about the Jnana as contemplated by Shri Adi Shankara. I am talking about the Jnana Marga or the path.

4 & 5. I am not sure whether you will agree to what Kanchi Periyava has stated.
There are three best wealth of each person
a. Taking birth as a Human
b. Walking in the path towards Self Realisation (The thirst to realise one self)
c. Get a guru (who is self-realised)

I am not talking about a golden deer here. I am talking here the language of the great saints.

With humbleness, I would like to point out that "We people can chat, see movie etc etc waning our time away but will not find time to pray god/travel towards what we are born for". We are born to realise ourselves. Hence would it not be better to make some time for ourselves. This is definitely not a wild goose chase.

The end result 'Moksha" does not matter. The journey towards it is important. That is why our ancestors have built a lot of temples so that we Manusha's can move towards the higher.

I do not want people to hurry towards Moksha. But if there is a path which helps the people to growth in both Bhakthi and Jnana Marga, why not we let people know and leave the choice to follow or not to follow to the practisioner.

As this is a very big topic for discussion, would prefer to take it off line.

Please excuse me if I had hurt you in any way by giving my opinion/thought on all this.


Regards
Srimadhan

Dear Srimadhan ji,

Thank you very much for a detail post.

I do read all your post...keep up the posts.


Regards
Renu

 

[renuka]

With humbleness, I would like to point out that "We people can chat, see movie etc etc waning our time away but will not find time to pray god/travel towards what we are born for". We are born to realise ourselves. Hence would it not be better to make some time for ourselves. This is definitely not a wild goose chase.

Dear Sir,

I agree with you but what I really meant in "no hurry" is not to have a laid back attitude but try to be good and do good and realize God in our thoughts,words and deeds..cos for many people "seeking God" in any Marga is a totally divorced journey from other aspects of life.

I mean some people follow every rule and regulation rigidly but on a personal basis have not even an iota of compassion or love for a fellow human beings suffering.

So somewhere..something has gone wrong..I am not a learned person but the more I read I feel that everything in this world is inter related and without harmony in thought, words and deeds...there is no use even praying.

 

[Srimadhan]

Vish V Iyer Sir

Thanks very much for your compliments. My email id is [email protected].

Would be very very glad to converse with you.

Regards
Srimadhan

 

[sangom]

Sangom Sir/Renuka Madam

Thanks very much for your detailed explanation. I would go in detail as much as possible.

I am aged 38. Married and has a girl child of 8 years. I have been practising meditation for about 17 years. I am in the Website design business. My meditation time ranges from 3-5 hours every day. I am a born vaishnavite. My guru is a Saivaite and hence I am both. I spend time both for my family and for my business. Though balancing is a tough act. I try and keep the balance

I come in the Sishya Parampa of Shri Adi Shankara, Shri Trilinga Swamigal, Shri Vallalar & Shri Narayana Tithar. Probably I explain in details about my parampara later.

I will take each and every point at a time

1. I would like to politely disagree that Meditating in Chakras is a avaideet practise. This is one of workship's prescribed by Lord Siva himself in the book named Vigyan Bairav Tantra. Tantric is not some thing which is different than we do. Kundalini Yoga is one of the ancient yoga's prescibed by our Yogi's. For example Kundalini Maharishi's Jeeva Samadhi is in the Vakrakaliamman Temple near the Chandramouleeswarar Shrine. Whatever stated by Lord Siva CANNOT be a avaideek practise. You can see a lot of references to Chakra's in Tirumoolar's Tirumandiram, Lalitha Sahasranamam etc.They can be followed or need not be followed but stating it as a avaideek practise is not acceptable.

Would like to politely state that all the marga's go hand in hand together.

2. Chanting any mantram is a bhakthi marga. Please refer to Narada Bhakthi Sutra's wherein the Bhakthi is defined by a lot of saints as known to them.

3. I am not talking here about the Jnana as contemplated by Shri Adi Shankara. I am talking about the Jnana Marga or the path.

4 & 5. I am not sure whether you will agree to what Kanchi Periyava has stated.
There are three best wealth of each person
a. Taking birth as a Human
b. Walking in the path towards Self Realisation (The thirst to realise one self)
c. Get a guru (who is self-realised)

I am not talking about a golden deer here. I am talking here the language of the great saints.

With humbleness, I would like to point out that "We people can chat, see movie etc etc waning our time away but will not find time to pray god/travel towards what we are born for". We are born to realise ourselves. Hence would it not be better to make some time for ourselves. This is definitely not a wild goose chase.

The end result 'Moksha" does not matter. The journey towards it is important. That is why our ancestors have built a lot of temples so that we Manusha's can move towards the higher.

I do not want people to hurry towards Moksha. But if there is a path which helps the people to growth in both Bhakthi and Jnana Marga, why not we let people know and leave the choice to follow or not to follow to the practisioner.

As this is a very big topic for discussion, would prefer to take it off line.

Please excuse me if I had hurt you in any way by giving my opinion/thought on all this.


Regards
Srimadhan

Dear Shri Srimadhan,

I believe that human birth (and, for the same reason, birth as any animate being in this planet) is caused by previous Karmas. Each one of us here goes through an already decided drama, whether it ultimately becomes a joke or foolish comedy or a very great drama - none of us will know in this world.

Hence I consider my duty as over once I have pointed out the truth. There is enough freedom for every one to follow whatever beliefs we hold as supremely true. But the end-results will be known only after the end.

But what appears strange to me is that you claim of being in the parampara of Adi shankara!!