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Castes-Can We Think Afresh?-A hypothesis to Start With.

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Caste is a "given situation" in which we are all born in India. So instead of trying to eradicate castes (which appears to be next to impossible) can we try to do away with the casteist discrimination? I think that is what is practical and is possible. Once we move away from the castes and the so called brahmin bashing (the 'kola veri' is so tempting that many of us are not able to resist it) we can look at casteism as an ill of the society like the Sati which existed in the pre-independence days. This is not an attempt at clever manipulation or escapism and there is sufficient logic, reason and need for going for this paradigm shift. Some of the reasons why we should shift our focus are:1. Caste is a peculiar social practice of the hindu society from the distant past and all the different castes in the society, for some reason which is not clear as yet, had a role in sustaining the practice. Once we accept this truth the internecine fight among us to find a scape goat and blame it will end instantly. 2. The blame game has been going on(with the politicians cheering up and exploiting it to the hilt) for such a long time that it has already sapped the tamil society's energy. At best what has been achieved is that we have hanged the brahmins again and again without a due trial in our emotionally surcharged court of justice. They deserve a reprieve because it is a fact that the society as a whole was and is responsible for the atrocities and discriminations committed in the name of castes. 3. Discrimination in whatever garb is to be fought as it is a violation of basic human right. So looking at it as a human right violation will be appropriate instead of looking at it as a brahmin engineered, dharmashastras generated demon.


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Now we come to the question: Then what is caste? Besides being a given condition what is it that keeps it alive and immune? I think there are adequate info on this and we can take it only if we are open(for a moment unlearning whatever we have learnt/imbibed so far) to fresh ideas which are completely at variance with our entrenched prejudices.

There is scientific evidence to conclude that culture strongly impinges on human genes and influence them as a part of evolution.(Please refer to

The Evolution of Social Stratification by Robert Boyd (BEC) — UCLA ...www.anthro.ucla.edu/BECtreynor
And
Boyd: 'How culture transformed human evolution' | ASU News
asunews.asu.edu/20100914_boyd
And
The Evolution of Social Stratification by Robert Boyd (BEC) — UCLA ...
www.anthro.ucla.edu/BECtreynor.

I understand there is a group in Japan or Korea which has also been doing research in this area. Long back I had the opportunity to read a paper submitted on this topic by them. I have lost track of it and am unable to recall it from my memory/ knowledge base/archive.

If we accept this scientifically proved fact, we can move to the next logical deduction that some groups of human beings living in the sub-continent , at some point of time in the distant past, deleberately chose to follow certain cultural practices each by choosing a certain environment as well. They were perhaps aware that these cultural practices would ultimately get ingrained in them at the level of their very genes. They also thought that this kind of genetic engineering will help the society as a whole. As they did not have the technology to take a gene separately and rejig it instantly, they perhaps chose this tortuous route. We must understand one important thing in this-that they never perhaps had the discrimination or social stratification in their mind when they chose this path. But human nature being what it is, the culturally transformed genes of the groups proliferated with time and became distinctly identifiable castes. With distinct charateristics these genetic groups started jackeying for power and domination in the society. Then slowly in order to retain the power and position stratification of the society on the basis of castes gained currency. All that was needed was just a capable organiser for each group and the society had plenty of them.

At present we have a society in which each group strongly believes that it has certain unique advantages in retaining the group identity and goes for sustaining the group by intermarrying within the group only. So it is ultimately the human nature of fighting for the retention of an existing advantage. If you press and ask any group for a sincere reply what you will get is this”why should we give up an existing advantage?” (the advantage here is not merely economic or health. It is an aggregate of many such desirable qualities) Of course the only exception in all this is the panchaman group which remained/remains in the receiving end in respect of every thing that is socially relevant.

With a sufficiently large sample size and dedicated effort scientists like Boyd can find out what are the specific unique features of culture that have got superimposed on the basic genes of the Indian population. For those who keep harping on the time worn argument of equality of human beings at birth it would be a defining moment.

I have reproduced this from another post I made as I thought this can be discussed further separately.

Cheers.
 
To my mind it appears as though justifying the caste system on the basis of 'gene-culture' coevolution or the 'dual inheritance' theory stands on very weak grounds.

Assuming that this is a natural phenomenon which is common to all humans, given other conditions being identical, the first question that stares at us is, "why this gene-culture coevolution" gave rise to well-defined castes and caste discrimination which prevented this dual inheritance to a good percentage of the people deliberately, only in India?

We will have to find an answer for whether such developments are also explainable on the basis of this theory? From the references cited, I don't think the papers say so. But since my grasping ability may not be very acute I am open to contrary opinions if valid.

Further, if we are to subscribe to this theory, then we have to explain the first point, viz., how come those who somehow secured some advantages over the rest of the population, were driven to exclusivist notions of creating social groups based on caste by birth, and choosing strict endogamy within the advantaged group only, instead of allowing selection and mating universally, according to mutually perceived 'cultural' compatibilities between male and female? Is this not unlike any natural phenomenon?

Lastly, I feel we are building a case in vacuum unless there is definite scientific data supporting definite genetic differences between brahmins, kshatriyas, vaisyas, sudras, chandalas, pancamas, and so on. Is such proof available, I don't know.
 
Sri Raju -

Nice to think of new ways to address old problems!

In my view, if we put a few people together for a while there will emerge differences either on the basis of strength, power, money or some other factor.
There is a human weakness and insecurity that creates issues associated with discrimination on the basis of some factor X.
There is also a need therefore for people to feel superior at the expense of others.

In this forum itself there are those that think they are superior because they are some kind of atheist (and therefore -unjustifiably- more logical) .. this is just a provocative comment to spice up this thread :-). or they think they are 'self-made people' without help of anyone else...

I have a friend from Japan from my PhD days. He was born in Japan, his father was born in Japan, he knows only Japanese & bit of English - but he had a Korean passport. There is no way to distinguish my friend from any other Japanese but their government discriminates against Korean immigrants (his grand father came to Japan). My friend had to go to Japan every year to keep his immigrant status, otherwise he would have to go to South Korea where he knows no one. There is a human need to to discriminate against others in my view that will never go away unless they realize their true nature (which cannot happen to most people in their life time)

I had an Ethiopian friend who I met in 1975. I have lost contact with him since then. This fellow told me that Ethiopians are the greatest people in the world because they were never colonized :-) He even told me how an Ethiopian walks which is to hold the head really high LoL

I am sure many have met Jewish people - especially orthodox ones - who hold the view that Jews are the chosen people in the earth.

Humans will always find reasons to feel superior and when the conditions permit will discriminate against others.

A short term fix is to strive to improve the economic conditions for all. Longer term approaches to the problem lies in educating people about our mutual interdependence.

Regards
 
tks in his post #3:

In my view, if we put a few people together for a while there will emerge differences either on the basis of strength, power, money or some other factor.
There is a human weakness and insecurity that creates issues associated with discrimination on the basis of some factor X.
There is also a need therefore for people to feel superior at the expense of others. ....

I am sure many have met Jewish people - especially orthodox ones - who hold the view that Jews are the chosen people in the earth.

Humans will always find reasons to feel superior and when the conditions permit will discriminate against others.
A short term fix is to strive to improve the economic conditions for all. Longer term approaches to the problem lies in educating people about our mutual interdependence.

This is what I call the given situation. In this we have people with differences, with perceptions of superiority, with a proclivity to discrimination etc., They are Ethiopeans, Jews,Aryans, Brahmins, Mudaliyars, Naidus, Naickers, Thevars, Jats,yadavs,kurmis and all. Now the society is taking steps to solve the problem of discrimination by some kind of preferential treatment like reservation(for the purpose of this thread we will keep aside the blatant misuse of reservation in India).

I have argued enough in this forum and have nothing more to get from people who are very much occupied with the given situation, trying to fix responsibilities and apportion blame. My effort here is now to find whether we can move ahead leaving the caste as it is as a tag or an id mark of groups of people to deal with only the discrimination. For doing that I thought it is necessary to know what these castes are before moving over. I agree with your views on the short term and long term fixes. But these will work only if we first understand the dynamics of the castes. Once we finally trace their origin to genes and further to the influence of divergent cultural practices of thousands of years we can deal with discrimination and atrocities more efficiently because then every force at work will resolve itself into just economic factors.

Cheers.
 
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