Changing Times: Will Gay Marriage Be Legal in India?

[Yamaka]

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Hello All:

Last week, New York State made Gay Marriage legal. This is one of the very important seminal periods in post-modern American history.

Although other States have already approved it, NY makes it very special, for it could be the harbinger of a larger change in attitude all over the world, I suppose.

What does an Orthodox kid coming from a rural forgotten village of Ramnad District now living as a Reformist/Naturalist think about this?:

I have also changed with times... I am now comfortably Neutral: I neither actively oppose nor actively support it. If the Texas State approves it, fine with me... but will not happen in my life time, though!

If my kids (so far it doesn't look like it) turn out to be Gays, will I be unhappy?

Most probably not... for it's THEIR Civil Right, I gather.

What do the supporters of Orthodox Religiosity feel about this development?

Will Gay marriage be legal in India ever?

Chime in please.

Cheers

 

[Nara]

....If my kids (so far it doesn't look like it) turn out to be Gays, will I be unhappy?

Most probably not... for it's THEIR Civil Right, I gather.

Y, don't worry about the orthodoxy, we all know what they will think about it, even though our own ancestors were not such prudes.

I myself have evolved, unlike Obama who was once unequivocally in favor, but now he has regressed to a state of "evolving". I was once quite repulsed by the idea, but no more. Love is love, and must be celebrated.

You are absolutely right, the Friday night vote in Albany is a BFD. Just by a stroke of Cuomo's pen we have doubled the number of our brothers and sisters who want to marry within the same sex, be able to legally do so. This vote makes me a true believer that the arc of history bends towards justice and compassion.

Cheers!

 

[renuka]

I have no problems with people being gay but what I cant understand is why would they want to marry?

I have gay patients who are real nice and some of them have even showed me their engagement rings and have even told me how they met and had a candle light dinner etc..which sounds very romantic though.

I have even asked them why do you want to get married?Why dont just live in without any form of binding commitment?But they somehow always want to get married and commited.

When I talk to these guys they seem just like any other straight couple in love with each other.
I have seen love in their eyes and believe me they make my best patients and its sometimes disheartening to see them being "ill treated " by most doctors who are judgemental about gays and even use harsh words on them.

I am sure as parents all of us prefer straight children but I often wondered if parents can accept a promiscuous womanizer type of son why cant they accept a gay son who might actually be faithful to his partner.

Straight or gay for Hindus the son still lights the pyre.

 

[kunjuppu]

renu,

the way i understand it.

the connotation with the word 'marriage', in the usa socio political sense is fraught with power, inheritance, rights and MONEY.

to give you an example: all my medical benefits, by default my wife gets it too; my pension funds; the benefits that she gets out of her employment...i am by law, even if we are separated, i have the right to share; and so on...

without marriage, even though you might be a gay partner for 25 years, you dont get to share the medical benefits, the pension, etc. etc.

... and the pride that goes with it - a wife, a kept woman,a partner, a legally approved entity? you name it.

it is all in the WORD.

 

[Yamaka]

"I have no problems with people being gay but what I cant understand is why would they want to marry?" -Renuka asked


The word "marriage" is very important here, "civil union" etc will not suffice in certain legal situations (like work benefits, alimony, legal protection etc. etc.)

The Gays were fighting tooth and nail to get that word into law in the US. I understand their POV clearly.

I don't know what's happening in Canada, Europe, Malaysia, Singapore, Australia, India etc..

Members in the Forum may shed light on this issue openly... it's time we all talk with an open heart and mind.

Cheers.

 

[renuka]

renu,

the way i understand it.

the connotation with the word 'marriage', in the usa socio political sense is fraught with power, inheritance, rights and MONEY.

to give you an example: all my medical benefits, by default my wife gets it too; my pension funds; the benefits that she gets out of her employment...i am by law, even if we are separated, i have the right to share; and so on...

without marriage, even though you might be a gay partner for 25 years, you dont get to share the medical benefits, the pension, etc. etc.

... and the pride that goes with it - a wife, a kept woman,a partner, a legally approved entity? you name it.

it is all in the WORD.

Kunjs,

Nope its not the same here..I will not be entitled to my husband's Pension Funds or Insurance if he has named someone else as the nominee for example if he has named my son as the nominee I get nothing.

So I guess everyone whether straight or gay just want some secure future.

 

[biswa]

There is one problem with homosexuality in my opinion. People are not prepared for it. Simple example: men are now allowed to invade women's bathrooms. Most sensible parents will not allow a girl of a certain age onwards to be alone with a grown man, even if a relative. Though it is hard to prove a negative, I am sure many abuses have been avoided by these simple rules.

Now in the US, it is common for men to shower naked in public bathrooms (in gyms, clubs, swimming pools etc.). Boys join boy scouts, church choir groups, basketball teams and so on. Many cases have now surfaced where boys were abused by gays in such situations because nobody took the appropriate precautions.

 

[tbs]

hi,
gay marriages may be legal latter in india....but i know homosexuality very common in INDIAN ARMY....may not be in publically...

in some cases are known to me........where more men work with men ..its a common practise.....i heard that many nuns are lesbians

in christian churches.....homosexuality very old practise in ancient india...especially in Kamasutra period....but legalisation very

tough issue....in US the lawmakers are known towards BLG issues....in many armies in the world has known for homosexual


practices.....legalisation is very tough among religious fundamenatlists......

regards
tbs

 

[Brahin]

The more we suppress any desire it will take different forms.So just let go and enjoy what ever forms desires take till you can enjoy no more!!!!

 

[Brahin]

How about legalizing polygamy and polyandry?

 

[Nara]

....Simple example: men are now allowed to invade women's bathrooms.

biswa and others, marriage is about joining two lives. It is about two people who are attracted to each other, love each other, and want to share all their joys and sorrows with each other. They want their union recognized by civil society. This can happen only if they are allowed to marry. Allowing gays to have civil union, but opposite sex union to marry is unequal as if somehow their love is less.

The bathroom issue you raise is completely unfounded. Whether a society approves of gays or not gays have existed in all societies from long long ago, so long ago, nobody knows how long ago. So, as we speak, whether a society allows gays to marry or not, there are gays using public bathrooms. If gays are allowed to marry, they are not suddenly going to become child molesters -- that is absurd. (BTW, I hope you are not saying gay men will start using women's bathroom if they are recognized as gays.)

The same goes for the suggestion that allowing gay marriage means polygamy/polyandry must also be allowed. These are two separate issues. Some societies did allow and do allow these even today. These objections reveal baseless fear and lack of knowledge about the issues involved.

Cheers!

 

[ShivKC]

while i support for legalizing gay civil union in india, i wish polyandry and polygamy also should be legalised.

it cannot be argued, true love doesn't exist in polygamy.

 

[renuka]

How about legalizing polygamy and polyandry?

Nara anna said:

The same goes for the suggestion that allowing gay marriage means polygamy/polyandry must also be allowed. These are two separate issues. Some societies did allow and do allow these even today. These objections reveal baseless fear and lack of knowledge about the issues involved.

Dear Nara anna,

I dont know why you are not in favor of legalizing Polygamy and Polyandry.Isnt that being biased like how some people oppose the idea of Gay union.
I feel if a man can marry another man or a woman can marry another woman so whats wrong with Polygamy and Polyandry which is still within the "normal" sexual orientation.I am not being a pest here by bringing this up but I do see some logic in it.

Just a thought:
Polygamy and Polyandry is like a MCQ exam paper(Multiple Choice Questions).
But this types comes with added benefits.
You get to be the teacher and the student.Multiple attempts and no time limit,all answers are correct and no negative marking!!!

 

[Nara]

...I dont know why you are not in favor of legalizing Polygamy and Polyandry.Isnt that being biased like how some people oppose the idea of Gay union.

Renu, I did not say I am against (or for that matter for) P and P. All I am saying is the question of Gay marriage is independent of the two Ps.

I have heard the arguments in favor of Gay marriage I support it. I have not heard the arguments in favor of polygamy/polyandry.

Cheers!

 

[biswa]

How about legalizing polygamy and polyandry?

Polygamy is legal right now, if you believe in Allah!

 

[biswa]

The bathroom issue you raise is completely unfounded. Whether a society approves of gays or not gays have existed in all societies from long long ago, so long ago, nobody knows how long ago. So, as we speak, whether a society allows gays to marry or not, there are gays using public bathrooms. If gays are allowed to marry, they are not suddenly going to become child molesters -- that is absurd. (BTW, I hope you are not saying gay men will start using women's bathroom if they are recognized as gays.)
Cheers!

Wait, why do you think men are not allowed to use women's bathrooms and vice versa if it has got nothing to do with sexuality? Why do you think girls are not allowed to be with strange men, if it has nothing to do with sexual apprehensions?

All I am saying is that when homosexuality is taken into account, these assumptions should be questioned. I do agree that this is orthogonal to the issue of marriage.

 

[Nara]

Wait, why do you think men are not allowed to use women's bathrooms and vice versa if it has got nothing to do with sexuality?

How many gay men do you know, or think, use women's bathroom?

Cheers!

 

[renuka]

How many gay men do you know, or think, use women's bathroom?

Cheers!

Biswa,

I have to agree with Nara anna here.Gay man dont use female bathroom.
May be most of us confuse being Gay with a Transsexual who feels that he is a female trapped in a male's body.
Gay man are true man but just with a different orientation thats all.

 

[C RAVI]

Nara anna said:




Dear Nara anna,

I dont know why you are not in favor of legalizing Polygamy and Polyandry.Isnt that being biased like how some people oppose the idea of Gay union.
I feel if a man can marry another man or a woman can marry another woman so whats wrong with Polygamy and Polyandry which is still within the "normal" sexual orientation.I am not being a pest here by bringing this up but I do see some logic in it.

Just a thought:
Polygamy and Polyandry is like a MCQ exam paper(Multiple Choice Questions).
But this types comes with added benefits.
You get to be the teacher and the student.Multiple attempts and no time limit,all answers are correct and no negative marking!!!

Dear Renuka,

You are right...

Legalization of polyandry and polygamy, atleast would sure be helpful for some community who cherish life with a concept of "Partner Swiping" (irrespective of their religion/cast, believes and values).

In such a case, such cummunity need not to operate their life style in secrecy. As well would help them to claim compensation, if been harmed some way between themselves.

 

[C RAVI]

while i support for legalizing gay civil union in india, i wish polyandry and polygamy also should be legalised.

it cannot be argued, true love doesn't exist in polygamy.

Dear Shiv,

I don't think that absence of true love would be a issue. When most of the people believe that Love in marriege can not be constant, stable and fascinating; just a fulfillment of desires as and when one need be, polygamy with specific no.s of selective individuals can be legalized, IMO.

 

[renuka]

Dear Renuka,

You are right...

Legalization of polyandry and polygamy, atleast would sure be helpful for some community who cherish life with a concept of "Partner Swiping" (irrespective of their religion/cast, believes and values).

In such a case, such cummunity need not to operate their life style in secrecy. As well would help them to claim compensation, if been harmed some way between themselves.

Dear Ravi,

I thought I have heard that NOIDA syndrome before(If i am not wrong about all this Swinging etc)
Many still respect the institution of marriage and Polygamy and Polyandry is not totally alien to us also.
There has been 2 cases of Polyandry in our scriptures.
Polygamy has been there since ever since.

 

[B.Krishnamurthy]

Is it true that Gays and Lesbians help the society at large in keeping the world Population under control?
What was the Vision of OSHO regarding polygamy and polyandry.

 

[renuka]

Is it true that Gays and Lesbians help the society at large in keeping the world Population under control?
What was the Vision of OSHO regarding polygamy and polyandry.

Good one sir,

OSHO was he ever in favour of marriage? I dont think so sir.

 

[sravna]

Very disconcerting that there has not been a single dissenting voice against gay marriages that too amongst a community known for strong traditional values. It is very funny that in the name of freedom from inhibitions, people are only shackling themselves more. All these forbidden things which were forbidden for good reasons in my view have terrible long term consequences.

One is not really exercising his freedom but only giving free vent to his perversions. Here people are not able to control their errant and deviant thoughts and call themselves free thinkers. Very funny indeed!

 

[kunjuppu]

Very disconcerting that there has not been a single dissenting voice against gay marriages that too amongst a community known for strong traditional values. It is very funny that in the name of freedom from inhibitions, people are only shackling themselves more. All these forbidden things which were forbidden for good reasons in my view have terrible long term consequences.

One is not really exercising his freedom but only giving free vent to his perversions. Here people are not able to control their errant and deviant thoughts and call themselves free thinkers. Very funny indeed!

srvana,

it is estimated about 10% of humans tend to have homophilic tendencies, to various extent.

in our society, i know gay men, who married, had a 'normal' life with wife and children, and who just 'disappeared' for a few days for some private tryst with some males.

the wife knew. suspected. but ignored it. what else can she do?

today, maybe there is more honesty. instead of leading a double life, people are living as per their genetic code demands, and expecting the society to come to terms with it.

i believe, we are born gay. not become one due to environment.

i also believe, while i do not publicly go about shouting my tolerance of gays, i have to come to terms and accept it, if my children go such a path. after all, can we lose our loved ones, just due to some other's prejudice.

srvana, i always think before condemning any thing, just, 'what if this happens to me or my family'. that helps me tone down my strong disagreements on most issues.

perversion is a strong word. our own caste system is a perversion of the worst kind. yet dont we find so much support for it here and the inherent superiority of the brahmins. to the rest of the world, this is a perversion. i am quite sure, none of us would like to be termed perverts. right?

thank you.