Changing Times: Will Gay Marriage Be Legal in India?

[Nara]

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"MAKE GAY MARRIAGE LEGAL IN INDIA"

If the youngsters in my family are indicative of broader trend, then this will happen, not now, but surely in due course of time.

I was really surprised by the reference Sravna gave, the so very tough Manu does not seem very worried about a little same-sex fling, he only recommends purification routine, bathing with all the clothes on -- no cutting any organ off, a punishment that may befall a Shudra if he dares to listen to Vedic chanting.

When the Maha Bharat showed Polyandry, how come it's not practiced by religious orthodox Hindus in India today?

The religious orthodoxy of yesteryear India was not prudish at all, just look at some of the figurines in temple gopurams in Tamil Nadu, no need to travel to Orissa, as explicit as you can imagine. Next time you visit Madurai, go to Azhagar Kovil and check out the raja gopuram, unless you have a fragile ego.

From where and when did this prudishness take hold, I wonder, perhaps Happy or Sangom sir can clarify.

Cheers!

 

[biswa]

Sri Kunjuppu. Renuka,

I agree that one is born gay.

Not true! There is such a thing as bisexuality or even acquired homosexuality. That is the only way to explain homosexual encounters in prisons and army among men who may otherwise be happily married (to women) with kids.

 

[Nara]

Not true! There is such a thing as bisexuality or even acquired homosexuality. That is the only way to explain homosexual encounters in prisons and army among men who may otherwise be happily married (to women) with kids.

What does this have to do with two law abiding, decent, loving people wanting to commit to share their lives, joys, and sorrows?

Cheers!

 

[renuka]

Not true! There is such a thing as bisexuality or even acquired homosexuality. That is the only way to explain homosexual encounters in prisons and army among men who may otherwise be happily married (to women) with kids.

The only way to find out is to have a stint in the Armed Forces or in Prison.
Each and everyone of us have some latent hidden tendencies a.k.a vasanas which might just grow when the ground is fertile and conducive for it.

This is where our Karma also can come in Sravna so may be from the Karmic point of view its the Fate of a gay to be that way.
I am sure as a believer of Karma you are not going to disagree with me here.

Ok just say a married man and another married woman(not husband and wife) get stranded in a lonely island for years.I am sure over time they will grow to love each other.Dont you think so?
So what you say Karma or desire?

Just a word of caution I have read before that sometimes when we dislike anything too much we actually take birth in our next life to experience it till we get over that particular dislike.
Thats why were are always advised not to develop strong likes or dislikes.

 

[biswa]

Just a word of caution I have read before that sometimes when we dislike anything too much we actually take birth in our next life to experience it till we get over that particular dislike.
Thats why were are always advised not to develop strong likes or dislikes.

Hmm, no wonder most humans get reborn as cockroaches. Probably that's why cockroaches are the longest surviving species!

 

[renuka]

Homosexuality not only occurs among humans but is also prevalent in the anlmal kingdom and I have personally witnessed this phenomenon in monkeys.
So may be it could be some poorly understood evolutionary phenomenon which still has its traits in us humans.

read link below:

Homosexual behavior in animals - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[biswa]

Homosexuality not only occurs among humans but is also prevalent in the anlmal kingdom and I have personally witnessed this phenomenon in monkeys.
So may be it could be some poorly understood evolutionary phenomenon which still has its traits in us humans.

read link below:

Homosexual behavior in animals - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Agreed, plenty of demonstrated research, often triggered by lack of mates of the opposite sex. None of them are clamoring to be "married" though, AFAIK.

 

[Nara]

Folks,

In all this debate prompted by the NY State vote on Gay Marriage, Obama stands exposed as a rank hypocrite, never a leader, never will be one, and an opportunist who will for ever have his finger out to see where the wind blows.

Here is an example, what he stated when he was running for a relatively measly state senator of the state of Illinois:

“I favor legalizing same-sex marriages, and would fight efforts to prohibit such marriages.”

​

Now that he is president, he says his position is evolving.

This is not the only issue in which he has pulled back based in the direction of political wind. This is kind of an arcane issue, but quite indicative of what one can expect from Obama. In 2007, when he was running for the Democratic Party nomination, his campaign said the following:

To be clear: Barack will support a filibuster of any bill that includes retroactive immunity for telecommunications companies.

​

This was about warrantless wiretapping of U.S. citizens that President Bush engaged in. Obama couldn't have been more clear that he was opposed to offering retroactive immunity to U.S. Telecommunication companies that cooperated with the illegal activities of the then Bush Administration.

Yet, once he secured the nomination of the Democratic party, Obama did just the opposite, he voted to end the filibuster -- a parliamentary procedure -- that would have denied offering immunity, and he went ahead and voted to give the immunity he promised he wouldn't give -- just the very opposite of what he stated his position was.

This is not an isolated instance, time after time, Obama refused to lead on any issue, leading from behind, always calculating the course of action with least political risk. Obama is not a leader, but a common follower of what he thinks is the majority opinion.

From all this if we can't deduce that Obama is a fair-weather friend, then we must blame just ourselves to have Obama as the President of USA.

Cheers!

 

[Nara]

Agreed, plenty of demonstrated research, often triggered by lack of mates of the opposite sex. None of them are clamoring to be "married" though, AFAIK.

How many straight "marriages" have you seen in the animal kingdom? Marriage as an institution is a human phenomenon. If opposite sex couples can have it, then same sex couples are entitled to it also.

Cheers!

 

[biswa]

Now it is time to turn the tables and ask what this political diatribe against Obama has got to do with gay marriage?

Obama has made a strong statement today that he has done more for LGBT than all 43 previous presidents combined. And he is 100% correct. Just repealing "don't ask don't tell" and refusal to defend the "Defense of Marriage Act" suffices to justify this claim.

Would like to see what the so-called anti-Obama gay supporters will do if Sarah Palin or Michelle Bachmann becomes President. Be careful what you ask for, in case you just happen to get it!

Folks,

In all this debate prompted by the NY State vote on Gay Marriage, Obama stands exposed as a rank hypocrite, never a leader, never will be one, and an opportunist who will for ever have his finger out to see where the wind blows.

Here is an example, what he stated when he was running for a relatively measly state senator of the state of Illinois:

“I favor legalizing same-sex marriages, and would fight efforts to prohibit such marriages.”

​

Now that he is president, he says his position is evolving.

This is not the only issue in which he has pulled back based in the direction of political wind. This is kind of an arcane issue, but quite indicative of what one can expect from Obama. In 2007, when he was running for the Democratic Party nomination, his campaign said the following:

To be clear: Barack will support a filibuster of any bill that includes retroactive immunity for telecommunications companies.

​

This was about warrantless wiretapping of U.S. citizens that President Bush engaged in. Obama couldn't have been more clear that he was opposed to offering retroactive immunity to U.S. Telecommunication companies that cooperated with the illegal activities of the then Bush Administration.

Yet, once he secured the nomination of the Democratic party, Obama did just the opposite, he voted to end the filibuster -- a parliamentary procedure -- that would have denied offering immunity, and he went ahead and voted to give the immunity he promised he wouldn't give -- just the very opposite of what he stated his position was.

This is not an isolated instance, time after time, Obama refused to lead on any issue, leading from behind, always calculating the course of action with least political risk. Obama is not a leader, but a common follower of what he thinks is the majority opinion.

From all this if we can't deduce that Obama is a fair-weather friend, then we must blame just ourselves to have Obama as the President of USA.

Cheers!

 

[renuka]

Just to highlights some points from that Wikipedia link I had pasted.

Genetic and physiological basis for homosexual animal behaviour.


Researchers found that disabling the (fucose mutarotase) FucM gene in laboratory mice – which influences the levels of estrogen to which the brain is exposed – caused the female mice to behave as if they were male as they grew up. "The mutant female mouse underwent a slightly altered developmental programme in the brain to resemble the male brain in terms of sexual preference" said Professor Chankyu Park of the Korea Advanced Institute of Science and Technology in Daejon, South Korea, who led the research. His most recent findings have been published in the BMC Genetics journal on July 7, 2010.
In March 2011, research shows that serotonin is involved in the mechanism of sexual orientation of mice.

 

[sravna]

Shri Nara,

If you do not want to call Manu's justice as punishment call it as atonement.

 

[sravna]

Renuka,

I agree that it is the fate of someone that he is born a gay. In the same way it is fate that he has to experience the consequences of that too. Otherwise what is the point of being born with certain traits? There has to be some reason right? What I am trying to say is that you cannot dismiss something just as fate

 

[Yamaka]

Folks,

In all this debate prompted by the NY State vote on Gay Marriage, Obama stands exposed as a rank hypocrite, never a leader, never will be one, and an opportunist who will for ever have his finger out to see where the wind blows.

Here is an example, what he stated when he was running for a relatively measly state senator of the state of Illinois:

“I favor legalizing same-sex marriages, and would fight efforts to prohibit such marriages.”

​

Now that he is president, he says his position is evolving.

This is not the only issue in which he has pulled back based in the direction of political wind. This is kind of an arcane issue, but quite indicative of what one can expect from Obama. In 2007, when he was running for the Democratic Party nomination, his campaign said the following:

To be clear: Barack will support a filibuster of any bill that includes retroactive immunity for telecommunications companies.

​

This was about warrantless wiretapping of U.S. citizens that President Bush engaged in. Obama couldn't have been more clear that he was opposed to offering retroactive immunity to U.S. Telecommunication companies that cooperated with the illegal activities of the then Bush Administration.

Yet, once he secured the nomination of the Democratic party, Obama did just the opposite, he voted to end the filibuster -- a parliamentary procedure -- that would have denied offering immunity, and he went ahead and voted to give the immunity he promised he wouldn't give -- just the very opposite of what he stated his position was.

This is not an isolated instance, time after time, Obama refused to lead on any issue, leading from behind, always calculating the course of action with least political risk. Obama is not a leader, but a common follower of what he thinks is the majority opinion.

From all this if we can't deduce that Obama is a fair-weather friend, then we must blame just ourselves to have Obama as the President of USA.

Cheers!

Interestingly, today in the press conference President O said he is going to file papers to say that DOMA is unconstitutional.

And he fully supports what NY State did on Gay Marriage!

He also allowed Gays to serve openly in the Military.

I think the real danger for BHO in the 2012 Election is from his own "people" - the Progressives for totally different reason:

1. For some unknown reasons, the Stimulus, QE1 and QE2 did not prime the economic engine well enough to create jobs robustly.

2. The Unemployment Rate is stubbornly stuck around 9% and there is gridlock in the Congress about budget deficit, debt and Lifting the Debt Ceiling etc.. He can't push thru another Stimulus anytime soon.

3. Most of the unemployed are his progressives, IMO.. these people could just stay home on the Election Day en mass.

If that happens, the Republican Nominee will win with 52% of the popular votes and Electoral Votes of +20...

That will be a devastating defeat for the in-fighting Democrats! Watch out!!

 

[C RAVI]

Renuka,

I agree that it is the fate of someone that he is born a gay. In the same way it is fate that he has to experience the consequences of that too. Otherwise what is the point of being born with certain traits? There has to be some reason right? What I am trying to say is that you cannot dismiss something just as fate

Sri Sravna,

I think, some people are afraid of Karma and re-birth and hence for the sake of it, focused on keeping them intact.

You have clearly stated above, that I prefered to not to.

----------
If Fate has to be justified, the way we want, than, If a slum dwelling poor guy helplessly grows up as criminal from his teen age and be a rapist/smuggler and be as an anti social element, will the law and the society would spare him?

If we have to speak about upholding the pure justice, unmindful of what is good and healthy for the society in the long run, than our social / legal systems should be as good as that of Philippines.


In Philippines divorce is illegal. Once married, you can not leagally get divorced.

Thus, young boys and girls fall in love (physical/emotional, whatever), they have sex and deliver baby without marriage. Partners get apart as and when they want and get into another kinda physical/emotional love and again give birth. They neighter have any grudge on each other nor they have any legal threat for each other (other than rape).

Neither the innocent guys have to give alimony nor some wicked girls can make undercover plans to go for divorce, get alimony and live happily with other guy. And if require, continue the same process.

Isn't that fair enough in terms of safe, liberal, justful and happy living of each other in Philippines?

Can we expect such a life style and be relieved, having nothing to feel about being discriminate in terms of offering legal status to each one's life style?

 

[C RAVI]

Religious people are usually at each others throats, except when they can find somebody to hate together, then they come together like peas in a pod.

Cheers!

Off course, they got to surrender themselves, if they want to have a safe living.

Parents too got to keep mum if their grown up children are beyond their control...

 

[renuka]

Dear Nara anna,

You wrote:

Originally Posted by Nara Religious people are usually at each others throats, except when they can find somebody to hate together, then they come together like peas in a pod.

Cheers!

I have to agree with you here this phenomenon is seen mainly in the middle east.
But not all religous people are like what you have described.
But majority have the Holier Than Thou attitude and they fail to realize thats a major obstacle in spiritual progress cos they have not gone beyond dualities.

 

[renuka]

Renuka,

I agree that it is the fate of someone that he is born a gay. In the same way it is fate that he has to experience the consequences of that too. Otherwise what is the point of being born with certain traits? There has to be some reason right? What I am trying to say is that you cannot dismiss something just as fate

Ok in that case we will blame it on Free Will.See how Fate and Free Will are interelated?
We have to blame something isnt it?

 

[renuka]

Dear Ravi,
You wrote:

Neither the innocent guys have to give alimony nor some wicked girls can make undercover plans to go for divorce, get alimony and live happily with other guy.

Ravi..what is this yaar? innocent guys but wicked girls?You dont seem to like girls but you speak of Love etc.

I am wondering now????hehehhhehe

 

[C RAVI]

Ravi..what is this yaar? innocent guys but wicked girls?You dont seem to like girls but you speak of Love etc.

I am wondering now????hehehhhehe



Not all guys are innocent, Not all girls are wicked...

We need not to re-iterated 101 times that, we are not making a blunt generalization. When highlighting a specific issue, we tend to be focused on a set of issue creators and not the particular species in general.

 

[sravna]

Ok in that case we will blame it on Free Will.See how Fate and Free Will are interelated?
We have to blame something isnt it?

Dear Renuka,

I am not saying it is not fate. But only that fate works with a purpose, the goal being to make the soul free. Fate ensures that every soul is directed towards this purpose with the right innate and external factors. So each person has the beliefs he needs to have and acts in the way he needs to act. One would think that there is no freewill here. But when you think that the ultimate goal is to give you that freewill you can appreciate God's design better. The expereince you go through is to make you totally believe in the world where there is real freewill.

 

[C RAVI]

If we got to blame the "Free Will", let us think whats good for the human kind/society at large. A healthy and safe society can not be expected, just being considerate to any kinda unnatural practices..IMHO.

Just a fear of, what will happen if our children tend to be guy or lesbian and want such marriages, will be an utter selfish thought, IMHO. Let us be considerate about social wellbeing at large.

I have come across many gay stories in India, where such gays have accepted that, they choosed themselves to be gay after being absolutely disappointed/humilated by some girls, during their natural course of love/affection. The same kind of stories from Lesbians.

 

[renuka]

I am going to put a few blunt questions here.
This questions are for those who believe in God.Even Non Believers are free to answer this Questions.

1) How many of you think that a straight guy is a better devotee than a gay guy?

2)Do you really think being gay or straight will make a difference in our spiritual progress?

3)Do you really think that God will seriously treat a prayer from a straight guy with a preference over a gay guys prayer?

 

[renuka]

Dear Renuka,

I am not saying it is not fate. But only that fate works with a purpose, the goal being to make the soul free. Fate ensures that every soul is directed towards this purpose with the right innate and external factors. So each person has the beliefs he needs to have and acts in the way he needs to act. One would think that there is no freewill here. But when you think that the ultimate goal is to give you that freewill you can appreciate God's design better. The expereince you go through is to make you totally believe in the world where there is real freewill.

Dear Sravna,

Agreed. But how many straight guys also make themselves free finally?
Many are drowning in the sea of love and attachment.
See... so both ways even gay guys have love and attachment and attachment remains an attachment till a person is free finally.
The word is attachment. Any sort of attachment binds even a Sattva one.

 

[sravna]

Dear Sravna,

Agreed. But how many straight guys also make themselves free finally?
Many are drowning in the sea of love and attachment.
See... so both ways even gay guys have love and attachment and attachment remains an attachment till a person is free finally.
The word is attachment. Any sort of attachment binds even a Sattva one.

Dear Renuka,

Don't you think there is a difference between attachment towards money and attachment towards your family? Though both are attachment the latter is more altruistic. I call them physical and spiritual attachment respectively, the former being negative, perverted and the latter being positive and shall we say, straight? You are correct in saying that both need to be transcended but the latter is a level higher in the evolution ladder in my view.