Dalits break caste barrier, enter 120-year-old Tamil Nadu temple

[prasad1]

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COIMBATORE: It was a defining moment for Coimbatore's dalits when several of them entered the 120-year-old Mariamman temple at Kalapatti for the first time on Sunday with the support of the Tamil Nadu Untouchability Eradication Front (TNUEF) and CPM activists.


Located 5km away from Coimbatore airport, the temple had been out of bounds for dalits until now. Around 2,000 families from the Arunthathiyar community live in this area. More than 1,500 dalits and an equal number of CPM activists gathered at Kalapatti Bazaar at 11am and took out a huge procession before entering the temple premises. Police provided security to the dalits and party workers.


There was no resistance from upper caste Hindus and the temple priest also cooperated with the protesters. He distributed sacred ash to all those gathered, breaking the shackles on customs that were more than a century old.


Coimbatore MP P R Natarajan and TNUEF president P Sambath, who led the dalits' march to the sanctum sanctorum, said that discrimination against any community would not be allowed in the temple any more. "The Mariamman temple has been under the administrative control of the department of Hindu Religious and Charitable Endowments (HR&CE) since 1971. The HR&CE Act empowers any community to enter and worship, but untouchability prevailed despite the law." he said.


TNUEF had staged many demonstrations in the city seeking government intervention in the issue. As the authorities failed to act, they decided to resolve the issue themselves. "It is a matter of shame for the state that untouchability existed at a temple situated in an urban area. It is not unusual to find such discrimination in remote interiors," said Sambath.


"About three years ago, a dalit was brutally attacked in Kalapatti for sitting next to a caste Hindu in a bus. There was no opposition against caste discrimination at the temple because the Arunthathiyar community felt it was their fate," he said.


"The government claims there is no untouchability in the state. We have witnessed it with our own eyes. We initiated measures to eradicate such discrimination in Erode, Salem, Vellore and Pudukottai on Sunday , the 'Memorial Day' for Srinivasa Rao who fought for equality," said a leader, UK Sivagnanam.


Times Of India.

 

[renuka]

COIMBATORE: It was a defining moment for Coimbatore's dalits when several of them entered the 120-year-old Mariamman temple at Kalapatti for the first time on Sunday with the support of the Tamil Nadu Untouchability Eradication Front (TNUEF) and CPM activists.


Located 5km away from Coimbatore airport, the temple had been out of bounds for dalits until now. Around 2,000 families from the Arunthathiyar community live in this area. More than 1,500 dalits and an equal number of CPM activists gathered at Kalapatti Bazaar at 11am and took out a huge procession before entering the temple premises. Police provided security to the dalits and party workers.


There was no resistance from upper caste Hindus and the temple priest also cooperated with the protesters. He distributed sacred ash to all those gathered, breaking the shackles on customs that were more than a century old.


Coimbatore MP P R Natarajan and TNUEF president P Sambath, who led the dalits' march to the sanctum sanctorum, said that discrimination against any community would not be allowed in the temple any more. "The Mariamman temple has been under the administrative control of the department of Hindu Religious and Charitable Endowments (HR&CE) since 1971. The HR&CE Act empowers any community to enter and worship, but untouchability prevailed despite the law." he said.


TNUEF had staged many demonstrations in the city seeking government intervention in the issue. As the authorities failed to act, they decided to resolve the issue themselves. "It is a matter of shame for the state that untouchability existed at a temple situated in an urban area. It is not unusual to find such discrimination in remote interiors," said Sambath.


"About three years ago, a dalit was brutally attacked in Kalapatti for sitting next to a caste Hindu in a bus. There was no opposition against caste discrimination at the temple because the Arunthathiyar community felt it was their fate," he said.


"The government claims there is no untouchability in the state. We have witnessed it with our own eyes. We initiated measures to eradicate such discrimination in Erode, Salem, Vellore and Pudukottai on Sunday , the 'Memorial Day' for Srinivasa Rao who fought for equality," said a leader, UK Sivagnanam.


Times Of India.

Happy to note this..so I guess finally even the Goddess Herself would have only entered the temple on last Sunday.

 

[T.S.Sankara Narayanan]

There must not be any Un Touchables in The Society...Only Un Touchables are Corrupt Politicians...

In this issue How CPM Came ? I am surprising...They are Non-Believers of God...If so how can they Enter the Temple...

 

[renuka]

There must not be any Un Touchables in The Society...Only Un Touchables are Corrupt Politicians...

In this issue How CPM Came ? I am surprising...They are Non-Believers of God...If so how can they Enter the Temple...

For a change may be we can just appreciate what CPM did too cos even though they might not believe in God at least they are allowing others to gain entry into a temple.

Think of all those people who proclaim they believe in God but deny entry to an untouchable forgetting the fact that it's Eka Atma Sarvabhuta Antara Atma.

So that way we can say at least CPM is better than all those self proclaimed believers of God that do not practice what they preach.

 

[Anand Manohar]

Dear Prasad Ji, Renuka

This really has no relevance to Brahmins, as such. The media plays things up as "Dalit-Caste Hindu"
affairs. I have had the personal experience walking [all alone] through very communally tense areas
that had just experienced clashes between Dalits & Thevars in Madurai.

Brahmins get the bad name. As such Brahmins don't give a damn and infact are addressed as " Sami " -
a title that makes me squirm when addressed that way - I never thought myself worthy of such a title.

It is actually the Thevars, Nadars, Goundars, Chettiars and Mudaliars who are fanatic about their community
and lineage. But since they are all clubbed under "Caste Hindus", it is the Brahmins who get the bad name.

As I have stated elsewhere in some other thread, I have been a Founder-Member of a Temple Committee, since
1977, and have never encouraged or approved of any sort of stratification in society that marginalizes
any caste / community.

The 'Caste Feeling' in UP, MP, Haryana and Rajasthan, though is bad - here too, the Mishras/Sharmas/Shastris
don't have anything to do - It's always the Thakurs/Gujjars/Jats/Khatris - clubbed under "Caste Hindus"
who are pretty old-fashioned and narrow-minded.

In general, I thinks Brahmins have a much more mature, broad-minded and inclusive mind set. This is
a generalized statement - there are exceptions everywhere, though.

Yay Yem

 

[Raji Ram]

I think I can share one of my experiences here. When I was a college student, I had to travel by mofussil bus to reach my

village Ananimalai. Once when I got into the bus, there was only one vacant seat near one SC lady! She appeared not to

have had a bath for at least a week but I did not mind sitting next to her. Tolerance taught by my doctor dad! After a few

stops, another similar looking old lady got in and I offered her my seat to show respect for her age. I was taken aback when

she retorted, 'nee iyyaru oottup puLLa; enga vENA ukkAruva. nAngellA(m) kanda sAdhi kooda ottikittu ukkAra mAttO(m)!' :dizzy:

 

[Naina_Marbus]

…………………..It is actually the Thevars, Nadars, Goundars, Chettiars and Mudaliars who are fanatic about their community and lineage. But since they are all clubbed under "Caste Hindus", it is the Brahmins who get the bad name.

……The 'Caste Feeling' in UP, MP, Haryana and Rajasthan, though is bad - here too, the Mishras/Sharmas/Shastris don't have anything to do - It's always the Thakurs/Gujjars/Jats/Khatris - clubbed under "Caste Hindus" who are pretty old-fashioned and narrow-minded. ……………………

Yay Yem

I think I can share one of my experiences here……..
………. I was taken aback when she retorted, 'nee iyyaru oottup puLLa; enga vENA ukkAruva.nAngellA(m) kanda sAdhi kooda ottikittu ukkAra mAttO(m)!'

Kudos to both of you. It is gratifying that we are able to share our experiences here so that not only the rest of the world becomes aware, but also the pseudo-secularists, pseudo journalists, and pseudo-historians who have been bashing the brahmins for no fault of the latter.

My experience: A while ago, when we were looking for domestic help, one old woman presented herself, and we hired her. But, after she left, the neighbouring tenants ( mostly mudaliars, chettiars, etc and none were brahmins) visited us and complained that the person we hired was a dalit, that we should not hire her. We were at a loss to know how to handle the situation, since antagonising neighbors is worse than yourself getting ostracized. Nevertheless, we continued to employ her. Fortunately, the situation resolved itself, because, after a few days, the maid complained that she had arthritic knees, that she could not climb the two floors to visit our top floor flat, and dropped out on her own.

My own suspicion is that the caste system was not invented by the brahmins, but they layered themselves on top of a pre-existing system, much like what the British colonists did.

 

[C RAVI]

I think I can share one of my experiences here. When I was a college student, I had to travel by mofussil bus to reach my

village Ananimalai. Once when I got into the bus, there was only one vacant seat near one SC lady! She appeared not to

have had a bath for at least a week but I did not mind sitting next to her. Tolerance taught by my doctor dad! After a few

stops, another similar looking old lady got in and I offered her my seat to show respect for her age. I was taken aback when

she retorted, 'nee iyyaru oottup puLLa; enga vENA ukkAruva. nAngellA(m) kanda sAdhi kooda ottikittu ukkAra mAttO(m)!' :dizzy:

Shmt Raji Ram,

Glad to find your above post, narrating your first hand/personal real life incident!!!! Hopefully people would not reject it as some cooked up incident..

 

[Naina_Marbus]

I think I can share one of my experiences here. When I was a college student, I had to travel by mofussil bus to reach my

village Ananimalai. Once when I got into the bus, there was only one vacant seat near one SC lady! She appeared not to

have had a bath for at least a week but I did not mind sitting next to her. Tolerance taught by my doctor dad! After a few

stops, another similar looking old lady got in and I offered her my seat to show respect for her age. I was taken aback when

she retorted, 'nee iyyaru oottup puLLa; enga vENA ukkAruva. nAngellA(m) kanda sAdhi kooda ottikittu ukkAra mAttO(m)!' :dizzy:

Could you please provide an English translation of the most important and relevant part of your post? Let the non-Tamil world also get a feel for the situation.

 

[Raji Ram]

Could you please provide an English translation of the most important and relevant part of your post? Let the non-Tamil world also get a feel for the situation.

Sure, Sir!

"nee iyyaru oottup puLLa; enga vENA ukkAruva. nAngellA(m) kanda sAdhi kooda ottikittu ukkAra mAttO(m)!"

"You are a girl form iyer's house; you will sit anywhere. But we won't sit very near any low caste!"

P.S: I am not able to find out the exact equivalent for 'kanda sAdhi'! Hence wrote 'any low caste'.

 

[Raji Ram]

......Glad to find your above post, narrating your first hand/personal real life incident!!!! Hopefully people would not reject it as some cooked up incident..

Dear Ravi,

May be you thought it is a cooked up incident!

I think so because you did not click 'like'!

 

[Raji Ram]

There is a popular anecdote. The son of one of the two famous twin mudhaliyAr brothers, loved an iyer girl and

went to get permission to marry her. His father refused abruptly saying, 'Iyer girls do not have any caste sense!

Suppose the younger sister of your lover marries a dalit boy, will you feel happy to introduce him as your 'sagalai'?

P.S: A man's 'sagalai' is the husband of his wife's sister.

 

[prasad1]

Dear Prasad Ji, Renuka

This really has no relevance to Brahmins, as such. The media plays things up as "Dalit-Caste Hindu"
affairs. I have had the personal experience walking [all alone] through very communally tense areas
that had just experienced clashes between Dalits & Thevars in Madurai.

Brahmins get the bad name. As such Brahmins don't give a damn and infact are addressed as " Sami " -
a title that makes me squirm when addressed that way - I never thought myself worthy of such a title.

It is actually the Thevars, Nadars, Goundars, Chettiars and Mudaliars who are fanatic about their community
and lineage. But since they are all clubbed under "Caste Hindus", it is the Brahmins who get the bad name.

As I have stated elsewhere in some other thread, I have been a Founder-Member of a Temple Committee, since
1977, and have never encouraged or approved of any sort of stratification in society that marginalizes
any caste / community.

The 'Caste Feeling' in UP, MP, Haryana and Rajasthan, though is bad - here too, the Mishras/Sharmas/Shastris
don't have anything to do - It's always the Thakurs/Gujjars/Jats/Khatris - clubbed under "Caste Hindus"
who are pretty old-fashioned and narrow-minded.

In general, I thinks Brahmins have a much more mature, broad-minded and inclusive mind set. This is
a generalized statement - there are exceptions everywhere, though.

Yay Yem

I am a born-brahmin, and no apologies either. I do not have to be defensive, as the original post was not against Brahmins.
LET US NOT BE DEFENSIVE.
The article said:

There was no resistance from upper caste Hindus and the temple priest also cooperated with the protesters.

And like you said:

In general, I thinks Brahmins have a much more mature, broad-minded and inclusive mind set. This is
a generalized statement - there are exceptions everywhere, though.

One has to be defensive if they have committed an act for which they are ashamed. In my opinion if one is not guilty, please do not act guilty.

 

[prasad1]

I think I can share one of my experiences here. When I was a college student, I had to travel by mofussil bus to reach my

village Ananimalai. Once when I got into the bus, there was only one vacant seat near one SC lady! She appeared not to

have had a bath for at least a week but I did not mind sitting next to her. Tolerance taught by my doctor dad! After a few

stops, another similar looking old lady got in and I offered her my seat to show respect for her age. I was taken aback when

she retorted, 'nee iyyaru oottup puLLa; enga vENA ukkAruva. nAngellA(m) kanda sAdhi kooda ottikittu ukkAra mAttO(m)!' :dizzy:

There is no caste for rudeness.

 

[C RAVI]

Dear Ravi,

May be you thought it is a cooked up incident!

I think so because you did not click 'like'!

Shmt. Raji Ram,

You know me well. And hopefully every one who recognizes me knows me well, that, I am not anti Brahmins in the name of or in the pretext of a Realized Brahmin. From the time I joined this forum, I have stood for our community as a brahmin myself by birth and have pointed out about the actual discrimination that other upper cast Non-Brahmins actually do with other lower cast Non-Brahmins where as Brahmins are continuing to be discriminated politically and socially and still they are keeping mum and minding their own business towards their progress socially, economically, professionally and intellectually, with sense of justice to all without any cruelty. As such, I have liked every time and admired the most valuable posts posted by Shri Raju, highlighting the true and cruel dealings of upper caste Non-Brahmins with the lower call Non-Brahmins.

In such a case, how come you can even think and guess that, "May be I personally thought yours is a cooked up incident"?

People may laugh at me, but let me be frank with you, unmindful of sharing with you in this public forum. I just don't read the posts posted by members here, as it is. I always read between the lines too and try to grasp the maximum that I could. And, my intuition all ways comes to play too, that helps me to recognize who is bluffing and who is not.


I didn't click "like" to your post because, you just shared what you have personally witnessed and experienced in you life. There was nothing else added in your post that can show what's your personal views and opinions in this regard are. Isn't it? I am not blaming you any way for not adding your personal comment based on this personal witness of yours. I know you don't like to be involved in controversial debating.

Hope this is clear as why I didn't click like to your post and just responded to your post positively, in true sense.

In fact, I was sarcastic about the possible counter ideas and comments that may appear here against Brahmins, just to show Brahmins in a wrong picture.

 

[Raji Ram]

Dear Ravi,

Thanks for your reply and for understanding my nature well. Yes! I do not want to see people argue needlessly.

The sad part is that, even if I call for peace, no one pays heed!! OK. Let us leave it at that.

I was just kidding you regarding clicking of 'like's, because everyone knows that you are very generous!

I believe that personal hygiene is very important but it should not make me treat some people as untouchables!

I have a bath and change my dress as soon as I come back after travelling in a bus or train. But I do not show any

caste variation when I have to take a seat! I allow my maid servant to clean up all the rooms including my pooja room

but I tell her to take a bath every day and keep herself clean. That is it.

Best wishes. :thumb:

 

[renuka]

Dear Prasad Ji, Renuka

This really has no relevance to Brahmins, as such. The media plays things up as "Dalit-Caste Hindu"
affairs. I have had the personal experience walking [all alone] through very communally tense areas
that had just experienced clashes between Dalits & Thevars in Madurai.

Brahmins get the bad name. As such Brahmins don't give a damn and infact are addressed as " Sami " -
a title that makes me squirm when addressed that way - I never thought myself worthy of such a title.

It is actually the Thevars, Nadars, Goundars, Chettiars and Mudaliars who are fanatic about their community
and lineage. But since they are all clubbed under "Caste Hindus", it is the Brahmins who get the bad name.

As I have stated elsewhere in some other thread, I have been a Founder-Member of a Temple Committee, since
1977, and have never encouraged or approved of any sort of stratification in society that marginalizes
any caste / community.

The 'Caste Feeling' in UP, MP, Haryana and Rajasthan, though is bad - here too, the Mishras/Sharmas/Shastris
don't have anything to do - It's always the Thakurs/Gujjars/Jats/Khatris - clubbed under "Caste Hindus"
who are pretty old-fashioned and narrow-minded.

In general, I thinks Brahmins have a much more mature, broad-minded and inclusive mind set. This is
a generalized statement - there are exceptions everywhere, though.

Yay Yem

Dear sir,

I think you got me totally wrong...did I mention anywhere in my post about Brahmins?

In fact I have met many so called upper caste Non Brahmins here who think no end of themselves and treat the so called Dalit badly.

So I was not blaming any specific community in my post.

I really can not say if one community is narrow minded or anyone community is broadminded..I feel that varies at an individual level.
I have also come across some people whose minds are so narrow that their ears meet.
We really cannot generalize.

You see some people might appear quiet but we have no idea what is going on in their mind.
So as the saying goes we can never judge the book by its cover.

In every community there is the good the bad and the ugly.

Read my post again...I never mentioned Brahmin anywhere or any caste too anywhere(but surprisingly you listed quite a few from South and North!LOL)...all I said is that at least the CPM who do not believe in God was assisting people to gain entry into a temple but the so called believers of God denied entry to dalits in the past.

No where I mentioned any caste anywhere cos believers of God can include both Brahmins and Non Brahmins.

I hope you get a clearer picture now.

 

[guruvayurappan]

dear RR !
kanda sAdhi'! i think it means caste not known or not of their caste !! low caste is in their mind and not uttered openly
even now many DK scolding brahmins with papara bayal when the law says we should not scold any body by their caste name and is punishable .or we calling anybody pallan,parayan or sudhtran even though they have forum in that name ? is it applicable only to caste Hindus?
guruvayurappan

 

[C RAVI]

Dear Ravi,

I was just kidding you regarding clicking of 'like's, because everyone knows that you are very generous!


Best wishes. :thumb:

Shmt Raji Ram,

Thank you for your best wishes..

YES!!! I give away "like" very generously BUT for sure not "blindly".

When I could find people are adding value to the points of discussion, when the views and opinions matches more or less with that of mine, when the posts of any sort carries a sense of truthfulness and meaningfulness etc, I give away "like" to honor them and appreciate them for their contribution, sparing their time and energy.

I know many feel too uneasy, hilarous and may be even disguisting to find me generously clicking "like". BUT, I least bother. For me rewarding the contribution of members is of primary importance than feeling differently and reacting differently just to heed to the feelings of such other members who find me funny or stupid.


:cheer2:

 

[renuka]

I know many feel too uneasy, hilarous and may be even disguisting to find me generously clicking "like". BUT, I least bother. For me rewarding the contribution of members is of primary importance than feeling differently and reacting differently just to heed to the feelings of such other members who find me funny or stupid.


:cheer2:

Dear Ravi,

I think you are missing the point here.
I am sure no one really does not like you clicking Like for everything and even anything.

Its just that we all members LIKE you very much and sometimes just tease you.

I wish I could click like for this post of mine but what to do I can't click Like for my own posts!LOL

 

[C RAVI]

Dear Ravi,

I think you are missing the point here.
I am sure no one really does not like you clicking Like for everything and even anything.

Its just that we all members LIKE you very much and sometimes just tease you.

I wish I could click like for this post of mine but what to do I can't click Like for my own posts!LOL

When you and some of your like minded people wrongly understand that, I click like for everything and anything, what further I can say about you all other than laughing at you all??!!!??

The sarcastic comments of your's that I have highlighted above in bold, underline and especially in italics, clearly shows to me as how much and for what you and your lick minded people like me very much.

Anyways, I am happy to note that you and your like minded people like me for something if for nothing.

 

[renuka]

When you and some of your like minded people wrongly understand that, I click like for everything and anything, what further I can say about you all other than laughing at you all??!!!??

The sarcastic comments of your's that I have highlighted above in bold, underline and especially in italics, clearly shows to me as how much and for what you and your lick minded people like me very much.

Anyways, I am happy to note that you and your like minded people like me for something if for nothing.

Dear Ravi,

Are you out of your mind!LOL

I was being honest Ravi..If I wanted to be sarcastic I would have attacked you directly Ravi.

You missed the whole point.

Yes you do click like for everything and even anything..true but wait wait let me complete my sentence..may be I was not clear enough.

What I really meant is even though you click like non stop but there is always a reason for your actions.

You yourself had mentioned that you have a valid reason to do so.

In fact in forum there is hardly any LICK Minded people..sorry sorry I mean LIKE Minded people!LOL(Ravi please edit that spelling mistake of yours)

Friends today and might become enemies tomorrow.


Don't worry yaar...see if I have anything againts you would I still talk so nicely to you?

Be happy Ok.

 

[C RAVI]

Dear Renuka,

I am allways happy having my own way. I have nothing to feel unhappy, associating myself with anything wrong.

 

[Anand Manohar]

Dear Renu

Now, please, please, please, don't start off another battle.

Just when the dust seems to be settling a bit, you take off again ! Ref post # 5 of this thread,
I had only mentioned that Brahmins, as such, have nothing to with the controversy and Jeera Mam,
sort of just echoed it in her post # 6.

You have corrected Ravi [ Lick & Like ] and you yourself spell AGAINTS (!).

Things like this happen - I don't think anybody on this Forum is a direct descendant of Shakespeare/Keats/Shelly,
so, let's get a "move on" - so long as nobody writes like Nick Carter, things should be OK.

CALL TRUCE, SPREAD PEACE.

Yay Yem

 

[renuka]

Dear Renu

Now, please, please, please, don't start off another battle.

Just when the dust seems to be settling a bit, you take off again ! Ref post # 5 of this thread,
I had only mentioned that Brahmins, as such, have nothing to with the controversy and Jeera Mam,
sort of just echoed it in her post # 6.



Yay Yem

LOL! Ha Ha Ha..

Why are you panicking my dear..I was not planning to start any war here.
BTW that post was written when the war was still on and dust had not settled yet so I am not starting any war here.
Don't get wrong yaar..

I know that Brahmins do not get involved in the Caste fights in India.

I too have studied in India and I am quite aware that lots of NB too are very particular about caste.

I was just stressing in my post that I never mentioned Brahmins anywhere in that post.

Sir one important point is even though I might not identify myself with any caste but I can't really hate any caste especially Brahmin caste cos it is a Brahmin lady only who gave birth to me.

So don't worry I do not attack for no rhyme and reason.

I hope you believe me.

Don't worry ok.


I have not answered the second half of your post becos I do not want to be accused of starting war all over again.I hope you understand.