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Death. A discussion.

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M

munsaamy

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The second we are born, stop watch starts. Only we don't know the time setting. We know we are going to die.

Some of us are not too concerned about our death. For example, some of us are ready to go now, today. I am one of them.

Bheeshma was said to have the blessing to chosse the time of his death.

Some of the Jain saints said to have passed away settling facing north.

Sri Raghavendra said to have chosen his time to settle in his samadhi.

I always wondered, can we choose our time of death. I don't mean suicide here.

Our body the machine is great, not that great. Can we stop this machine at our will?
 
"Our body the machine is great, not that great. Can we stop this machine at our will?"

Response: No
 
munsaamy ji, welcome to the forum. As a new member you are asking rather heavy questions. :)

I think you are essentially talking about suicide. Whether you stop your heart through yoga or by consuming poison, what difference does it make?
 
biswa said:
munsaamy ji, welcome to the forum. As a new member you are asking rather heavy questions. :)

I think you are essentially talking about suicide. Whether you stop your heart through yoga or by consuming poison, what difference does it make?
Click to expand...

Biswa, I am not talking about suicide.

A time comes after which life may seem meaningless. Happiness would be around, still there may not be much to achieve anymore.

In Ayurvetha a condition is called "arathi" where a person has no desire to live. I am not even talking about such a condition.

Just a condition where the life can be just shut off. Like bade goodbye to everyone and just shut the system off.

Thank you for welcoming me to the forum.
 
A famous but foolish Josiar who lived at Thiruvallikeni commited suicide excatly at 1.00pm because he read his horoscope which told that he will die at that time.To keep match he choosed his end.Is it not funny.He is none other than Dr.parthasarathy.
 
Munsaamyji,

If "can we stop the machine at will" is the question the answer is "yes". People have been doing it all these centuries and millennium. We call it by different names like, suicide, Atmahatya, murder, Sallekhana, harakiri and what not.

But it is certainly unnatural. It is possible only if the mind inside the body is sick or is extremely matured. If it is sick it will kill the body in a trice when given to emotions. If it is very matured it will kill the body after taking leave of the family, friends, society etc., after taking the permission of the Guru, and after giving away whatever possessions are there by adopting the method of fasting unto death-this is the method called sallekana by Jains.

Why it is unnatural? It is so because one of the chief characteristics of Atma according to scriptures is being Anandamaya. Anandamaya is interpreted by learned elders as being always "helpful" to the self எப்போதும் தனக்கு அனுகூலமாகவே இருத்தல். Except in sallekhana all other instances of killing the body is against this principle and so unnatural.
 
munsaamy said:
The second we are born, stop watch starts. Only we don't know the time setting. We know we are going to die.

Some of us are not too concerned about our death. For example, some of us are ready to go now, today. I am one of them.

Bheeshma was said to have the blessing to chosse the time of his death.

Some of the Jain saints said to have passed away settling facing north.

Sri Raghavendra said to have chosen his time to settle in his samadhi.

I always wondered, can we choose our time of death. I don't mean suicide here.

Our body the machine is great, not that great. Can we stop this machine at our will?
Click to expand...

Dear Shri munsaamy,

Though the stop-watch starts the moment we are born (or may be even earlier to that when an ovum is fertilized) it is impossible to stop that watch at a moment of "our" choosing. But we can hasten or prolong it to some extent by our habits and/or actions. Even then, the exact moment at which it would stop cannot be usually controlled by humans and so we cannot stop the watch at our will.

Long life has its own advantages and attractions if the person concerned has been able to lift himself up even a little from the usual distractions of a worldly life and has made some effort to know what exactly lies before birth and after death. The longer one lives I feel that person will have more chances to learn a little bit more about the answers to the above two questions. Not that everyone will completely understand the mystery that is human life even if given a very long life.

Old people who therefore have happiness but find no meaning in life, should better be advised to face the question "what is the truth of this life?"
 
On the other hand, I have seen cases of elderly people who die when the lose the will to live. This often happens after the loss of a spouse.
 
munsaamy said:
The second we are born, stop watch starts. Only we don't know the time setting. We know we are going to die.

Some of us are not too concerned about our death. For example, some of us are ready to go now, today. I am one of them.

Bheeshma was said to have the blessing to chosse the time of his death.

Some of the Jain saints said to have passed away settling facing north.

Sri Raghavendra said to have chosen his time to settle in his samadhi.

I always wondered, can we choose our time of death. I don't mean suicide here.

Our body the machine is great, not that great. Can we stop this machine at our will?
Click to expand...

Dear Munsaamy,

The human body is made up of multiple organs..just like any machine we have components.

There must be a reason why we want to shut the whole machine down isnt it?

Usually when some parts are malfunctioning or has undergone disuse atrophy the other body parts to a certain extent can still compensate...so till then the human body can still drag on.

What nature did not provide anymore and even the hormonal waxing and waning can be restored via medication if desire overshoots reality.

So why worry..even if we are almost down and out you can still become ROBOCOP! Imagine having a 6 pack without having to work out at all!..you would be a chick magnet!LOL


images
 
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What is written about Lord Rama's death?? Just think over........... :decision:

'Vadakkiruththal' was a norm by elderly kings in those days! :tape:

Vadakkiruththal = starve unto death, sitting and facing North.

P.S: This topic has been discussed a few times earlier and I too wrote about my greatgrandma,

who stopped eating, to reach the Lord's lotus feet, at her very ripe age of 93!
 
Raji Ram said:
What is written about Lord Rama's death?? Just think over........... :decision:

'Vadakkiruththal' was a norm by elderly kings in those days! :tape:

Vadakkiruththal = starve unto death, sitting and facing North.

P.S: This topic has been discussed a few times earlier and I too wrote about my greatgrandma,

who stopped eating, to reach the Lord's lotus feet, at her very ripe age of 93!
Click to expand...


Dear RR ji,

The Raghu dynasty had suicidal tendencies and do not handle stress well.

The Grandfather of Lord Rama ..King Aja committed suicide after his wife died(she was an apsara cursed to be born a human and one day she died when her time was up..a garland fell on her and she died).

Aja become too depressed and committed suicide and left behind Dasharatha who was then just an 8 month old babe.

So King Dasharatha grew up without parents and would surely have been traumatized hearing how his parents died and that is why Dasharatha too could not handle the grief of separation from Lord Rama and succumbed to it.

Dasharatha just could not handle it..grew up and orphan..have a wife betray him and finally separated from his son..too much to bear and he died.

So I guess this family does not handle stress well genetically predisposed to be suicidal friendly!
 
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renuka said:
Dear RR ji,

The Raghu dynasty had suicidal tendencies and do not handle stress well.

The Grandfather of Lord Rama ..King Aja committed suicide after his wife died(she was an apsara cursed to be born a human and one day she died when her time was up..a garland fell on her and she died).

Aja become too depressed and committed suicide and left behind Dasharatha who was then just an 8 month old babe.

So King Dasharatha grew up without parents and would surely have been traumatized hearing how his parents died and that is why Dasharatha too could not handle the grief of separation from Lord Rama and succumbed to it.

Dasharatha just could not handle it..grew up and orphan..have a wife betray him and finally separated from his son..too much to bear and he died.

So I guess this family does not handle stress well genetically predisposed to be suicidal friendly!
Click to expand...


Was it Dasaratha who had a lot of wives?? 100+ i guess?? ( If true, he might not have been able to handle this, rather than stress :P )
 
indianassault said:
Was it Dasaratha who had a lot of wives?? 100+ i guess?? ( If true, he might not have been able to handle this, rather than stress :P )
Click to expand...


Assault ji,

Dasharatha was a King..if he had 100 plus wives they would have been well kept cos they had maids and servants to do all work for them and they would have been given all jewels etc to keep them happy....no one would have nagged him..nagging only starts when a woman cant finish her house work on time and needs help.

So all he had to do is gun it..that is a major stress reliever!LOL
 
munsaamy said:
The second we are born, stop watch starts. Only we don't know the time setting. We know we are going to die.

Some of us are not too concerned about our death. For example, some of us are ready to go now, today. I am one of them.

Bheeshma was said to have the blessing to chosse the time of his death.

Some of the Jain saints said to have passed away settling facing north.

Sri Raghavendra said to have chosen his time to settle in his samadhi.

I always wondered, can we choose our time of death. I don't mean suicide here.

Our body the machine is great, not that great. Can we stop this machine at our will?
Click to expand...

Mr. Munusaamy,

It is very much doubtful even if such mechanism is available to end one's life, how many will use the same. Suicides are momentary and if they wait for 10 minutes, the suicide will not be committed. I have read in somewhere that some patients who were terminally ill and have been verbally desiring for death were given the option to die. the gadget to cloe the life saving system was kept very near to them and they were told anyone who wants to die can switch off the system and they were given the assurance that once the system was switched off, they would die peacefully as if they were going on to sleep. Morning when the doctor not even one had used that gadget. Then they were told that the gadget was just gimmick and even if it was switched ioff they would have only gone to a deep sleep and would naot have died. It was done only to prove that there is always hope in one's mind and that hope only mnakes them live and hope for the best. That experiment, I am told, cheered the patients more and they started taking the medicine and food with desire.

So, even if you are given the option too you are not going to use it. Death is beautiful only because it has a suspence element in it. Many 'mahans' have died just to prove their power and not because they wanted to die. power to them was moreintoxicating than the desire to live.

For me, my own favourtie quote 'I love everything in life, even death' = I love myself, my life and when death comes let it come. I don't want to hasten the same. Yes..during the course of time, you get weakened and have to depnd on others.Then don't hesitate to take their help - it is a chance for them to show their love to you. I had also read somewhere when an elder;y [erson is telling 'my family loves me - my friends love me - so I want to live long to cherish in their love' chalo if you feel there is noone to care for you, then also there is 'You' to care about you. So please remove those negative thoughts abd when death comes hug it and welcome it.

 
sushi55 said:
Mr. Munusaamy,

It is very much doubtful even if such mechanism is available to end one's life, how many will use the same. Suicides are momentary and if they wait for 10 minutes, the suicide will not be committed. I have read in somewhere that some patients who were terminally ill and have been verbally desiring for death were given the option to die. the gadget to cloe the life saving system was kept very near to them and they were told anyone who wants to die can switch off the system and they were given the assurance that once the system was switched off, they would die peacefully as if they were going on to sleep. Morning when the doctor not even one had used that gadget. Then they were told that the gadget was just gimmick and even if it was switched ioff they would have only gone to a deep sleep and would naot have died. It was done only to prove that there is always hope in one's mind and that hope only mnakes them live and hope for the best. That experiment, I am told, cheered the patients more and they started taking the medicine and food with desire.

So, even if you are given the option too you are not going to use it. Death is beautiful only because it has a suspence element in it. Many 'mahans' have died just to prove their power and not because they wanted to die. power to them was moreintoxicating than the desire to live.

For me, my own favourtie quote 'I love everything in life, even death' = I love myself, my life and when death comes let it come. I don't want to hasten the same. Yes..during the course of time, you get weakened and have to depnd on others.Then don't hesitate to take their help - it is a chance for them to show their love to you. I had also read somewhere when an elder;y [erson is telling 'my family loves me - my friends love me - so I want to live long to cherish in their love' chalo if you feel there is noone to care for you, then also there is 'You' to care about you. So please remove those negative thoughts abd when death comes hug it and welcome it.

Click to expand...


Dear Sushi,

Wonderful post..I fully agree with what you wrote but let me share a few more points.

Most of us when we picture our own death we tend to think on terms of a peaceful death of any kind especially old age or even sometimes dare think about some terminal disease and breathing our last in the hospital.... death is "easy" to embrace but the manner of which death seeks us and the process of dying is not easy to imagine especially in cases of violent death like murder,torture like how soldiers undergo when caught be enemies,burnt alive,drowning etc.

When we sit and just try to imagine the last thoughts of a murder victim or a person being burnt alive or a drowning person that can make us really think that there is so much we dont know about the process of dying..cos we can never interview the dead.

So as usual we are back to square one..we really do not know much about life or even death.
 
Yeah, not to mention having a stroke and then having a slow vegetative death. That is the worst! Sometimes death does not come easily even if we want it.
 
Well said Renu and Biswa Sir! Sushi seems to be very positive and it is good! But we never know what is in store for us!

In fact, after seeing a few people who have a slow death - who wish for their death which never seems to approach - I
wanted to start a thread, 'Does Karma theory make us suffer more!'. :decision:

The blame for suffering is always taken by the karmas in the previous births, for those good personalities in this life and

so this theory only stops one from undergoing euthanasia! The only advantage I found in Karma theory is that people tend

to be good, by the fear of suffering in consecutive births! The not so nice part is the belief that if a person experiences all the

sufferings in this life, there will NOT be any more birth/births! God knows what!! :sad:
 
Raji Ram said:
Well said Renu and Biswa Sir! Sushi seems to be very positive and it is good! But we never know what is in store for us!

In fact, after seeing a few people who have a slow death - who wish for their death which never seems to approach - I
wanted to start a thread, 'Does Karma theory make us suffer more!'. :decision:

The blame for suffering is always taken by the karmas in the previous births, for those good personalities in this life and

so this theory only stops one from undergoing euthanasia! The only advantage I found in Karma theory is that people tend

to be good, by the fear of suffering in consecutive births! The not so nice part is the belief that if a person experiences all the

sufferings in this life, there will NOT be any more birth/births! God knows what!! :sad:
Click to expand...


Dear RR ji,

You should start that thread about Karma theory ...it would be a good discussion to have.

Please kindly do start the thread.
 
sushi55 said:
Mr. Munusaamy,

It is very much doubtful even if such mechanism is available to end one's life, how many will use the same. Suicides are momentary and if they wait for 10 minutes, the suicide will not be committed. I have read in somewhere that some patients who were terminally ill and have been verbally desiring for death were given the option to die. the gadget to cloe the life saving system was kept very near to them and they were told anyone who wants to die can switch off the system and they were given the assurance that once the system was switched off, they would die peacefully as if they were going on to sleep. Morning when the doctor not even one had used that gadget. Then they were told that the gadget was just gimmick and even if it was switched ioff they would have only gone to a deep sleep and would naot have died. It was done only to prove that there is always hope in one's mind and that hope only mnakes them live and hope for the best. That experiment, I am told, cheered the patients more and they started taking the medicine and food with desire.

So, even if you are given the option too you are not going to use it. Death is beautiful only because it has a suspence element in it. Many 'mahans' have died just to prove their power and not because they wanted to die. power to them was moreintoxicating than the desire to live.

For me, my own favourtie quote 'I love everything in life, even death' = I love myself, my life and when death comes let it come. I don't want to hasten the same. Yes..during the course of time, you get weakened and have to depnd on others.Then don't hesitate to take their help - it is a chance for them to show their love to you. I had also read somewhere when an elder;y [erson is telling 'my family loves me - my friends love me - so I want to live long to cherish in their love' chalo if you feel there is noone to care for you, then also there is 'You' to care about you. So please remove those negative thoughts abd when death comes hug it and welcome it.

Click to expand...
great post sushi ji
I liked the line -love everything in life,even death.
I wish all senior citizens would live life to the full with little or no dependance on others . a reasonable philosophy is to reach out to as many as possible and find common grounds for happy times and experiences in some activities of interest.
there is a lot to see in this world when one has the time ,inclination and some money
forget all this karma business . it is meant for the evolved spiritual persons of this forum.
we are ordinary mortals with decent desires to lead a happy joyful life without reflecting about the past or future births
 
Dear Krish Sir,

One community in Coimbatore district used to say when something bad happens, 'idhu enna karumamO!'. As a kid, I did not understand

what it meant. Now it is very clear that it rather means the bad karmas in the previous births! To be frank, as long as there is happiness

in life, no one thinks of good karma. But during testing times, people tend to blame the bad karma in the previous life, which implies that

they have been GOOD throughout this life! :angel:
 
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