disenfranchisement of dr. subramaniam swamy

[Yamaka]

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Dear ALL:

I am always for FREE SPEECH and political activism.

But, here, what Dr. Sub Swamy said regarding disenfranchizing Muslims (or any Minority) until they agree to the supremacy of Majority Hindus or Hindutva is really over the top. This is how some of the Harvard Faculty felt: that Black and Jewish Americans believe in the Supremacy of the White Majority, lest they will be disenfranchized!!!

The very idea of disenfranchizing ANYBODY is an anathema to me. I just can't stand that angle of thinking at all. We ALL must work doubly hard to enfranchize everyone under the Sun... Not the other way around.

As a politician Dr. Swamy is a joker. He has no following in India, except a handful of die hard fans. He stirs up controversy to hog limelight and camera time! A very cheap ploy.

I hate Dr. Swamy on the 2G issue - a Melodrama created by the Media without getting into both sides of the issue.

In his personal life, Dr. Swamy "APPEARS" to be a progressive, but politically a Rightwing Nut.

A dichotomy or contradiction I find very intriguing.

Folks: The real issue here is the fight between Hate Speech and the Harvard University Faculty, period.

The Faculty has spoken... please do not bring the culture of US and India, here.

That's another endless matter that would take any Thread to oblivion.

Take care.

Cheers.

 

[ShivKC]

Harvard has been bought and sold to the highest sharia bidder (in December 2005, Saudi Prince Al-Waleed donated $20 million each to Harvard University and Georgetown University to fund Islamic studies).

i think, this shouldnt be an issue, after all its spend for an academic purpose.. whats wrong if some one spends a billion dollar in a research to prove the 'non existence of god' or study on 'evil'.. as said, its all about study and research, and they have no limits and boundaries.

having said that, there is also a soothing thing, in line with this

amithabh bachan,Gaj Singh, Maharaja of Jodhpur and another top 5 personalities are the key sponsors for the Oxford Centre for Hindu Studies. do you think, the indian muslims should cry against amitabh.. matter of fact, if you could scroll through north india, mulsims are the highest fans of amitabh, and interestingly bachan use to be the easy prey for shiv sena.

thats how the world is..

I shall always believe that God plays dice with the world.
​

 

[happyhindu]

Ref post # 25 Kunjuppu sir,

I thot Swamy had a nice thing going. He did well in the setusamudram issue. But this nearly militant form of hindutva, making inflammatory comments, from someone of his standing was not expected. He ruined his harvard career himself.

He should have known a person remains the same person no matter if he writes in India or the US. His explanation, that his writings in india should not affect his career in the US, holds no water (paper).

Now the only major thing that can help him make a mark in his political career (and keep him in the prime news) is the 2G scam issue. Lets see how it goes.

 

[Iyyarooraan]

Dr Subramaniam Swamy is a good example of a tambram. He was considered a good economist but somebody could have initiated to tarnish his Harvard connection. In politics everything is possible. He was a misfit in BJP inasmuch as he was a SI. Used up and perhaps got thrown out. He married a Parsi. How could he have stopped his daughter marrying ic/ir? Many hold principles that life does not allow them to hold them on. Like fmr EC chief Seshan he is also an unwanted man though both of them are different from each other. He was considered a nuisance (like a fly) in TN politics earlier and now perhaps, a head-ache. How fast the time changes. Accept his contributions and ignore him.

 

[kunjuppu]

Dr Subramaniam Swamy is a good example of a tambram. .

Iyya, please explain here under what context is swamy a ‘good example of a tambram’. Religious? Education? Politics? Ego? Self centredness?

He was considered a good economist but somebody could have initiated to tarnish his Harvard connection. .

Sir, his tarnished reputation at Harvard, has nothing to do with his capacity to teach economics. He is undoubtedly a gifted economist, and had he spend more time at Harvard, could have been on par with amartya Sen or jagdish bhagwati. He is now disenfranchised from Harvard, for writing hate literature against muslims, as per defined in usa libel laws. It is by and large a non issue in india where the Indian press freely slings mud all over including our politicians.

In politics everything is possible. He was a misfit in BJP inasmuch as he was a SI. Used up and perhaps got thrown out. .

Swamy could not live under party regulations and discipline. He has a big ego. Had he stayed in BJP he could have been a national figure now. They would have found him a safe seat in MP or Rajasthan to get elected instead of losing his deposit in Madurai. tambrams have
held high positions in BJP. the current BJP chief spokesperson nirmala sitharaman is a tambram fyi. so i dont think BJP is anti SI.

He married a Parsi. How could he have stopped his daughter marrying ic/ir? .

How are they both related? His daughter suhasini haidar, appears to be an accomplished journalist. I would imagine she has a mind of her own to decide whom she wants to marry. Infact she has blogged her experiences at receiving hate mail on her decision to marry salman haidar’ son. I don’t think swamy would have any influence or stop his daughter’s marriage. Incidentally his other daughter married a kannadiga
vokkaliga, as someone pointed out the other day.

Many hold principles that life does not allow them to hold them on. .

Enna saar, talking like this? how can you say, I have high principles, but life does not let me hold them. hence I become corrupted. Either I stick with my principles or not. What has life got to do with it?

Like fmr EC chief Seshan he is also an unwanted man though both of them are different from each other. He was considered a nuisance (like a fly) in TN politics earlier and now perhaps, a head-ache. .

Don’t understand why seshan is coming into the picture here. Swamy and seshan are like black and white. Seshan is a haughty high tempered but basically honest capable bureaucrat who lives a regular life of a Tambram. Swamy is none of these.

How fast the time changes. .

I agree, time does change fast these days.

Accept his contributions and ignore him.

What has swamy contributed. His short term as minister was not all that luminous. He might want to take credit for exposing the 2G scam. But there are others who also want a piece of that cake.

 

[Iyyarooraan]

Kunjuppu Sir:Question 1 and 2: You have the answers in the questions. There may be and might have been a few SI in BJP who are known only by the connected. If southern states are going to return BJP in elections, then we may have the picture. Q.4. I have said the same thing what you have explained. All economists are good when the going is good. Else join politics. I have said both Seshan and Swamy are different but both will ultimately meet with isolation. Not necessarily a tambram has to be with us to be called a tambram. Swamy has raised corruption matters before effectively and today, his is also a voice. If that is his contribution why cannot we accept it. Regarding life and principles, everybody is not corrupt by choice. If one is not corrupt and would want to work in any hot govt dept. honestly he will be sent to mental asylum or consumed by the atmosphere.

 

[sarang]

What right Eck has to interfere in the affairs of the economics department? Funding and Fai decide what writ is to run.

Does Free Speech Exist at Harvard? The Case of Economist Subramanian Swamy:

I received from a friend in Connecticut an article that appeared in today’s edition of Inside Higher Education i. It confirmed that some of the faculty and students at Harvard University in Cambridge, Massachusetts are self-appointed monitors supporting the OIC agenda of punishing blasphemy. That translates to this policy: any criticism of Islam may be grounds for dismissal.
The Inside High Education article, “Over the Line: Harvard kills courses by controversial summer school instructor” is indicative of how dhimmified the groves of academia at elite American universities can be when the subject of Islam comes up. In Prof. Subramanian Swamy’s case it is because he has nationalistic views on how to deal with Muslims in his native India. The Harvard Faculty, while professing support for freedom of speech, doesn’t think it applies in the Swamy case, because he is “destructively” attacking another of India’s great faiths, Islam. This despite the fact that the Economics faculty at Harvard thought him eminently qualified to teach his courses. It was left to the Harvard faculty Indian religious expert to press for a faculty vote to cancel Swamy’s summer school courses.

* * * * *

Unfortunately at Harvard, that marketplace of ideas has been censored by apologists for Islam, such as the notorious Professor Diane Eck. . In effect, she and others like her are trespassing traditional faculty department control over curricula and appointment of scholars to teach based on their credentials and evaluations by those in the relevant field.

Does Free Speech Exist at Harvard? The Case of Economist Subramanian Swamy > New English Review

 

[sarang]

I am willing to accept your argument if there is no hidden agenda, no waabi influence and no anti-hindu-anti-india influences in the allocation/ receipt of grants. You may have heard of prof. witzel, another harvard academic, his connections with pakistan, islamic groups and virulent anti hindu and violent attacks on hindu friendly academics. Unfortunately most of in the interest of neutrality, middle path and sarva dharman samo bhava end up supporting the wrong groups and harm genuine hindu interests.

i think, this shouldnt be an issue, after all its spend for an academic purpose.. whats wrong if some one spends a billion dollar in a research to prove the 'non existence of god' or study on 'evil'.. as said, its all about study and research, and they have no limits and boundaries.

having said that, there is also a soothing thing, in line with this

amithabh bachan,Gaj Singh, Maharaja of Jodhpur and another top 5 personalities are the key sponsors for the Oxford Centre for Hindu Studies. do you think, the indian muslims should cry against amitabh.. matter of fact, if you could scroll through north india, mulsims are the highest fans of amitabh, and interestingly bachan use to be the easy prey for shiv sena.

thats how the world is..

I shall always believe that God plays dice with the world.
​

 

[KRS]

Folks,

I have read Dr. SS editorial, with a particular interest in finding where he advocates violence against a particular community as Professor Eck has commented.

I can only see these words in the editorial that may be construed to coming very close inciting any violence: The third lesson is that whatever and however small the terrorist incident, the nation must retaliate massively. For example, when the Ayodhya temple was sought to be attacked, we should have retaliated by re-building the Ram temple at the site.

Is this inciting violence against the Muslims of India? He is talking about the Islamic terrorists, and this article, one should remember is about the Mumbai attack. So, I don't buy this theory that he is inciting violence.

But then, if one looks at his entire editorial where for the topic of containing terrorism he brings in conversions by Christians, it just seems to me that he is speaking from emotion rather than from logic rooted in reality. I agree that there ought to be one civic code for all Indians, but then, how will it prevent terrorism? Hence my contention that this article is entirely political.

But then is it offensive? May be to some segments of Indian population. And so what? Offensive statements are hurled at various communities in India all the time, especially towards the Hindus in general, I think this just a rant of a not well thought of expression by a politician. I do not think that this is 'Hindutva', as though the present religious majority in India should not think it's self interest when a decapitation of India's leadership was launched without any resulting consequence, and a Mumbai attack took place brazenly by a foreign power, and yet no fitting response was given, in the name of secularism and understanding.

The result is a diminished citizenry, with only belief in fate to absorb such attacks. This is what driving the politics in India today. And one can not accuse a politician to exploit such sentiments to achieve what he believes is in the best interest of the country.

I never liked Professor Witzel. He, in my opinion is a racist, working always to diminish India. But, having read Professor Diana Eck's books, I always thought that she had a balanced and a well wishing eye towards India.

But I think, in this instance she has erred. And erred terribly.

Shame on you Harvard.

Regards,
KRS

.

 

[sarang]

This is what anna hazare said recently when he was accused by sharad pawar for supporting slap incident "I follow gandhi; but sometimes I follow shivaji." In cases related to violence against hindus, we must behave more like shivaji.


Let us take how Harvard conducted itself in similar such past incidents. In March 2002, Dr. Alan Dershowitz published an article in 'The Jerusalem Post', entitled 'New Response to Palestinian Terrorism", where he write that in response to terrorism from Palestine, after due notice, Israel should bulldoze all of the buildings in the village. In
spite of major protests, Harvard stood by Dr Alan's right to free speech. Is there anything in Dr. Swamy's article close to this?

 

[sarang]

Some information on the sanskrit dept of harvard. A post from hindu civilization group. Mr. rajaram is in US and has worked on indus scripts.

Subject: Re: Harvard-- Indian Studies is now Islamic Studies

December 10, 2011

The Sanskrit Department in Harvard is listed as Sanskrit and Indian
Studies. Its Chair is Diana Eck, who is identified as Professor of
Comparative Religion and Indian Studies and Frederic Wertham Professor of
Law and Psychiatry in Society

Another high profile person in the 'Sanskrit Department' is:

Ali S. Asani, Professor of Indo-Muslim and Islamic Religion and Cultures
and Associate Director of Prince Al-waleed bin Talal Islamic Studies
Program at Harvard University.

By no stretch of the imagination can these two be regarded as fit to be in
the Sanskrit Department of a major university. Eck is also a highly
political creature having served on the Congressional appointed committee
on international religious freedom. She identifies herself as a Methodist
Christian enjoying a 'same sex' marriage with Reverend Dorothy Austin, a
Methodist minister.

Eck is also on the faculty of the Divinity (theology) school.

It is no accident that these two took the lead in the cancellation of
Swami's economics courses. neither is an economist; more importantly,
neither is a Sanskritist but part of the Sanskrit Department with Eck being
the Chair!

A glance at the 'Sanskrit Department' faculty and courses is enough to
convince anyone it has more Islam than India in it. Urdu under the guise of
'Urdu-Hindi' is taught by Asnani and two others.

Students (and parents) should not be misled by the name Sanskrit.

Harvard should put on end to this deception and drop the word Sanskrit from
its department name. Just call it Department of Indo-Islamic Studies. It is
more accurate.

N.S. Rajaram

 

[sarang]

harvard's decision to drop swamy from the summer school is wrong in law.

Harvard wrestles with free speech
FRED PHELPS
To take just one example: recently, a case was brought against Fred Phelps, a pastor, who demonstrated at the funeral of a soldier killed in Iraq, with signs that said things like “Thank God for Dead Soldiers” and “You're going to Hell” because, in his twisted mind, America's war deaths were God's punishment for the U.S. tolerating homosexuality. In the case brought by the dead soldier's father alleging an injury for the intentional infliction of emotional distress, the U.S. Supreme Court held for Fred Phelps (protecting his right of speech), and against the dead soldier's father by a vote of 8-1.
In doing so, the U.S. Supreme Court solidified the notion that underlying the constitutional protection of freedom of speech and expression are values that transcend what people like Mr. Phelps and Mr. Swamy say — values important to everyone. And when free speech rights are attacked, if one allows the least popular and morally abhorrent people to be deprived of their free speech rights, then it is not long before others are deprived too. Thus the battle for free speech is always fought on the fringes, with people whose thoughts find scant endorsement. Protecting their rights does an essential public service, because it protects everyone's rights.
Examined through the above constitutional lens, Harvard's decision to exclude Mr. Swamy's courses, and thereby effectively oust him from the teaching roster, appears harsh. Also, Harvard has in place strong commitments to free speech in its policies, and this decision violates these policies. The University's “Free Speech Guidelines,” adopted in 1990, state, for example, that “curtailment of free speech undercuts the intellectual freedom that defines our purpose. It also deprives some individuals of the right to express unpopular views and others of the right to listen to unpopular views.”

The Hindu : Opinion / Op-Ed : Harvard wrestles with free speech

 

[kunjuppu]

folks,

whether sarang (rajaram) or KRS, might question the validity of swamy's dismissal from harvard, its fairness and the qualifications of swamy's detractors, the fact is, i think, indian studies is not a high profile politically important department of harvard. more of a backwater club, populated by academics who have tenure and basically could say what they want and get away with it.

i dont think there is any appeal. i dont even know if he has any champions to fight his case. for any mention of ethnic hatred in a racially charged usa, it is guaranteed, that all brand names will quietly creep away from identifying themselves as swamy's friends. such is the reality there. so no use here, claiming that it was unfair that swamy was dismissed. it is not going to have any effect. we can only wonder 'why he wrote such stuff'!!

which goes back to my earlier observation, 'knowing harvard and knowing the people there, why would swamy write such an inflammatory article'

it appears to be self destructive, and i cannot believe it was done, in a moment of emotion, for DNA articles are editted and discussed in detail, afaik, before they are put to print.

i always believe, that it is better to be heard partly, than not heard at all. much as i am not fond of swamy for his politics, i think, he is a good economist, and would have been nobel material, had he not been putting all his efforts in indian politics. infact he would have had greater success had he dabbled in usa politics, where the entry via harvard is easier, and there are previous exampls of such successes - JK Galbraith, Kissinger et al

anyone here, know more about swamy's reasons for publishing the article in the first place? he has not even made such statements even in india to his radical followers.

 

[KRS]

Dear Sri Kunjuppu Ji,

My posting was about Swamy being wronged. As I have said, I was surprised to see Professor Eck's name there - she presents balanced view of India and Hinduism in her books.

I don't care whether Harvard reinstates Dr. SS. Like the image of the Nobel Committee diminished in my mind after awarding a Nobel to President Obama, this incidence will diminish Harvard as an academically superb intellectual place in MY mind.

Dr. Swamy's article does not contain anything new. At least I was not surprised. He has expressed same ideas in his last book, however a couple of small details are added here.

Regards,
KRS

 

[ShivKC]

In her remarks, Eck emphasized the “destructive” nature of the positions Swamy advocated in India, and characterized the proposals as going well beyond free speech to the advocacy of abrogating human rights, curtailing civil rights, and intruding on freedom of religion. She wondered why the courses had not been “quietly dropped,” rather than submitted for approval in 2012. Swamy’s positions crossed the line to “incitement” and to “demonizing” Indian minorities, and were therefore sharply at odds with Harvard’s pluralism, Eck said.

Occupy Harvard, Subramanian Swamy teaching debated at faculty meeting | Harvard Magazine

 

[Yamaka]

AFAIK, ALL Harvard Faculty are fiercely independent thinkers who can understand FREE SPEECH, and clearly identify HATE SPEECH..

They know who Dr. Sub Swamy is, they know he is one of their own Alumni AND a teaching faculty member during Summer, teaching Economics (not Political Science or History or Religion).

They have debated vehemently on the "Destructive Speech" of Dr. Swamy.. they voted nearly "unanimously" to remove his courses from the Summer program.

Whether they will allow him to teach some time later, we don't know as yet.

I believe the PROCESS worked: Debate freely and then DECIDE.

I don't want to second guess the Faculty Members of Harvard University, period. Their action WILL NOT change the image of Harvard one bit, IMO. It's one of the well respected institutions of higher learning in the world.

Cheers.

 

[B.Krishnamurthy]

Global Hindu Heritage Foundation.org TEXAS,USA have sent a protest letter to All the Faculty
Members of Harvard University.
The letter of protest can be seen here;-
www.global hindu heritage foundation.org/blog/2011/12/12/ghhf-harvard university%
E2%80%99s-decision-to-remove-dr-swamy%E2%80%99s-summer-courses-shocking-hateful-repulsive-and-totally-biased/

 

[Haridasa Siva]

Seldom we find a man with intelligence,bravery and good looks too.

I thought you rated only me on these counts. Dr.Swami seems to have come as a competitor. I am sad.:sad:

 

[talwan]

Dr.Swamy is not a Brahmin.For Information.
Alwan

 

[kunjuppu]

Dr.Swamy is not a Brahmin.For Information.
Alwan

talwar,

dr. swamy was born to tambram parents, and has not denied his brahmin birth. why do you say otherwise? please provide references..


-who-dr-subramanian-swamy.

 

[talwan]

talwar,

dr. swamy was born to tambram parents, and has not denied his brahmin birth. why do you say otherwise? please provide references..


-who-dr-subramanian-swamy.

I will comeback with appropriate references.Pl, pardon me til then.
Alwan

 

[sarang]

Shame on You, Harvard University!
December 16, 2011 • Israel National News

"How unfortunate and regrettable it is that Dr. Swamy is being banished because he showed the wisdom, fortitude and guts for doing the right thing by fighting the Jihadis before it was too late.”

****
I am not sure whether he preaches against Muslims in his Economics classes. We do know that many professors all across America preach daily against Israel and against Jews without losing their jobs due to “hate speech” or racism. I do know that infidels are cursed in many mosques and madrassas and in Islamic state universities across the world. ”This situation affects us all. The West must understand that silencing men like Professor Swamy is in a sense an act of Jihad. We are aiding the Islamic fundamentalists in their quest for domination in India and South Central Asia.

Shame on You, Harvard University! - Op-Eds - Israel National News​