Does Maya Exists?

[renuka]

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Interactions with Sravna in his Maya thread now made me wonder does Maya actually exists?

We have been spoon fed that Maya exists...but if we try to analyze it seems rather "impossible" on how did humans actually detect something that :

1)Can not be understood

2)Can not be deciphered

3)Its origin unknown?

Could it be that man had no answers for certain questions and made up Maya to cover up his own inadequacies?

After all we humans still do not understand how our own mind works!LOL

Well Maya has been given a "feminine" role.

Why? Is it becos something deluding or destructive has always been called Feminine?

After all ... typhoons have had feminine names till now.

Goddesses have been always portrayed as ferocious with mainly carnivores as their side kick..no Goddess has a herbivore as their side kick.

Could Maya just be a fertile imagination of some male who fancied the idea of a deluding mysterious female?

Something that he desired but could not have?

Does Maya Memsaab actually exists?

May be early men were like the Shah Rukh Khan character in the movie Maya Memsaab.

He was in a dangerous liaison with the forces of nature....which could be deluding and destructive.

A primitive man might not know when Nature would strike him.

He never understood Her.

So he deified her and he came up with the concept of Maya.

So the learned need to check the Vedas to see if the concept of Maya existed in early ages.

I have no idea if it did.

Need to investigate when the concept of Maya started appearing and become main stream Hinduism.

I hope to find some data on this.

 

[renuka]

Managed to get some info:

It seems that in the Rigveda... Maya is like some Creative Powers of Devas and Kings and "Magic" that is even used by Asuras!

Maya in Hinduism

Vedas

Maya is introduced in the Rg Veda, referring to the power that devas (divine beings) possessed which allowed them to assume various material forms and to create natural phenomena. For instance, Varuna, employed maya in order to perform his celestial duties:

This great magic-work (maya) of renowned spiritual Varuna will I proclaim loudly; of Varuna, who standing in the mid-region has measured the earth and the sun as with a measuring rod. No one, indeed, dare impugn this great magic-work of the wisest god, namely that the many glistening streams pouring forth, do not fill up one ocean with water (Rg Veda 5:85).

Here, Varuna's creative ability is attributed to the power of maya he beholds, which he uses to keep all natural processes precise and orderly. Similar passages claim that the warrior-god Indra's maya keeps the firmament from falling from its fixtures in the heavens. Rg Veda 5:85 also illustrates more specified aspect of maya: its meaning as artifice or trickery.

That is, maya becomes associated with the sorts of deception and trickery that a magician employs in order to create an illusion. For example, the ability of the various gods to appear in alternate forms is attributed to their skillful use of maya.

Maya is not limited to the gods, however, as their evil opponents, the Asuras, also have the ability to call upon maya. Many of Indra's primary adversaries, including the notorious serpent Vrtra, call upon maya in order to gain their malevolent powers.

As could be expected, the Asura's maya often involves the aforementioned trickery. Later scriptural passages found in Atharva Veda 8.10.2 and Satapa Brahmana 2.4.2.5 portray maya as the esoteric power or knowledge that characterizes the asuras. In these later verses, maya is the power rooted in wisdom and intellectual pursuits, and exists independent of morality, since it can both benefit or hinder human welfare. Some early texts also attribute the powers of maya to human kings, and on some occasions the power of sacrifice is referred to as maya.

Then the concept changes in the Upanishads/Vedanta

Upanishads

The view of maya put forth in the philosophical Upanishads serves as an important transitional phase between the Vedic conception of maya, which would come to dominate later Hindu philosophy and mythology. The Svetsara Upanishad in particular focuses upon reformulating the older Vedic conceptions of maya, presenting it as the means by which the phenomenal world is emanated from Brahman.

Here it is claimed that themahesvara (or "Great Lord," who is identified in this text as Shiva) projects the physical world out of the ineffable substrate of the universe known as Brahman. Maya is the power that brings all reality into being as it is perceived by human consciousness. Therefore, all the particular things contained within this material world are products of maya.


These particulars detract from the perception of pure, unadulterated Brahman, and therefore maya comes to be perceived as a negative entity. The soul itself (or atman), which is conceived of as divine in its own right within the Upanishads, is also confined from realizing its true nature by maya's multiplicity of forms.

However, the Svetsara Upanishad also prescribes a remedy for the atman's entrapment within maya: through meditation upon mahesvara, one can achieve union with Him and enter into his being. This suggestion would have considerable effect on later philosophical schools, particularly those of Vedanta.

The very fact that the concept of Maya did evolve from Creative powers to delusion linked with Brahman finally, shows that the concept was subjected to interpretation.

So how do we really know if Maya actually exists?

 

[sravna]

Dear Renuka,

It is simple. Do you accept that this world is unreal compared to brahman? If so something should be responsible for it. That is what we call as maya. Since Sankara was capable of discerning that truth, it is likely that his other insights on maya are also true. And they do make sense.

Do you think the world is without purpose?

 

[renuka]

Dear Renuka,

It is simple. Do you accept that this world is unreal compared to brahman? If so something should be responsible for it. That is what we call as maya. Since Sankara was capable of discerning that truth, it is likely that his other insights on maya are also true. And they do make sense.

Do you think the world is without purpose?

Dear Sravna,

What is Brahman? I myself dont know?

So how can I compare the known(the world) to the unknown?

To compare anything both should have the same denominator..so going by that how can I even compare the phenomenal world to Unknown Brahman?

The question itself is contradicting.

Coming to whether the world is real or unreal.

I see suffering..I see pain...I see life..I see death. No doubt its transient but its real when it exists.

So is it fully real or partially real or truly unreal or partially unreal?

So far we have only heard of Real and Unreal..but does Partial Real or Partial Unreal exists?

I think we have been conditioned to think according to scriptures.

Its time we break free from scripture and try too look at everything as a witness.

You hold Shankara with high esteem just as a Vaishnava might hold Ramanuja with the same esteem.

But both these Acharayas did not seem to think alike.

So who is right?

For all you know believing and following itself is the biggest delusion of all.

So one has to denounce all beliefs held on.

I ask you "Do you dare give up any belief you held on so far and dive and swim or even drown on your own?"

 

[sravna]

Dear Renuka,

Ok. I thought you assumed that brahman exists. Brahman is nothing but the eternal reality. So relative to brahman, our reality is illusory. That is why you need maya to explain it.

 

[sravna]

Dear Renuka,

I do not want to ignore the accumulated wisdom. Life is too short to conduct an enquiry on our own and learn something that has been done over millenia. It is essential to use past knowledge , all that you need to do is to select knowledge that seems to strike chord with you. Mind with clarity has a way of sensing reality without our actual experience in the physical world.

 

[renuka]

Dear Renuka,

I do not want to ignore the accumulated wisdom. Life is too short to conduct an enquiry on our own and learn something that has been done over millenia. It is essential to use past knowledge , all that you need to do is to select knowledge that seems to strike chord with you. Mind with clarity has a way of sensing reality without our actually experience in the physical world.

Dear Sravna,

I am not denying the existence of Brahman..I just call it the unknown..so when something is unknown I cant be comparing it to anything else which I know off.

Now coming to accumulated wisdom.

Its only knowledge that accumulates. Wisdom can not accumulate.Wisdom is an experience.

Its like Love. The moment Love hits you..you are lost for words.

What people call love as they write in books and make movies or even poetry is written after the initial experience..that is when the mind comes in and writes poetry about Love.

But that is not the original experience..those are the words of the mind and not the experience of the heart. The original experience is orgasmic..no one can describe it.

Like wise..wisdom is the experience of the heart and not an accumulation of the mind.

Dear Sravna...when it comes to knowing anything..the intellect can function in 2 ways.

That is :

1)The intellect that examines without any pre conceived notions.

2) The Intellect that functions with connection with attachment of ideas or pre conceived notions.


The 2nd type tries to mould what he sees into what he holds on too..in that process he does not really see..he is sighted yet he does not see.

Now the 1st type..learns by trial and error..it might take him even lives and lives to realize even the tip of the ice berg. He is in no hurry but he wants to have a first hand experience of the heart.

He is not afraid of coming out of the comfort zone..unlike the 2nd type who finds a sense of security in holding on tight to what he believes in.The 1st type is fearless. The 2nd type is fearful.

Why do you say life is short if you believe that Maya exists? After all technically even Time does not exists..so where is the question of long and short?

 

[renuka]

Dear Sravna,

If first hand experience is not needed than why did Adi Shankara inhabit the Kings body to experience marital life when questioned by Ubhaya Bharati?

Why didnt he give an answer right away?

He should have known what marital life is all about isnt it without having to go tru it with the King's dead body.

So that shows that there is no short cut.

If you want to know something..you have to experience it.

Everyone wants an easy way out and a short cut.

 

[sravna]

Dear Sravna,

I am not denying the existence of Brahman..I just call it the unknown..so when something is unknown I cant be comparing it to anything else which I know off.

Now coming to accumulated wisdom.

Its only knowledge that accumulates. Wisdom can not accumulate.Wisdom is an experience.

Its like Love. The moment Love hits you..you are lost for words.

What people call love as they write in books and make movies or even poetry is written after the initial experience..that is when the mind comes in and writes poetry about Love.

But that is not the original experience..those are the words of the mind and not the experience of the heart. The original experience is orgasmic..no one can describe it.

Like wise..wisdom is the experience of the heart and not an accumulation of the mind.

Dear Sravna...when it comes to knowing anything..the intellect can function in 2 ways.

That is :

1)The intellect that examines without any pre conceived notions.

2) The Intellect that functions with connection with attachment of ideas or pre conceived notions.


The 2nd type tries to mould what he sees into what he holds on too..in that process he does not really see..he is sighted yet he does not see.

Now the 1st type..learns by trial and error..it might take him even lives and lives to realize even the tip of the ice berg. He is in no hurry but he wants to have a first hand experience of the heart.

He is not afraid of coming out of the comfort zone..unlike the 2nd type who finds a sense of security in holding on tight to what he believes in.The 1st type is fearless. The 2nd type is fearful.

Why do you say life is short if you believe that Maya exists? After all technically even Time does not exists..so where is the question of long and short?

Dear Renuka,

You can learn from the experience of others. You cannot be on your own in everything. Learning from the experiences and insights of others is an important way of learning. As you say it is ok to have your own notions but one should not be stubborn with one's ideas if one finds others ideas reasonable and be open to accepting or changing one's ideas. .

 

[krish44]

Maya exists.

She last appeared in ketan mehta film 'Maya memsahib'. SRK had an affair with her.

for your info

 

[sravna]

Maya exists.

She last appeared in ketan mehta film 'Maya memsahib'. SRK had an affair with her.

for your info

Dear Krishji,

If maya exists SRK does not exist.There is no way SRK could have had an affair with her.

 

[renuka]

Dear Renuka,

You can learn from the experience of others. You cannot be on your own in everything. Learning from the experiences and insights of others is an important way of learning. As you say it is ok to have your own notions but one should not be stubborn with one's ideas if one finds others ideas reasonable and be open to accepting or changing one's ideas. .

Dear Sravna,

There is a difference between being stubborn due to arrogance and wanting to learn by own experience.

There is a world of a difference.

Reading the experience of others who say that sugar is sweet can only truly make an impact on me if I were to taste sugar.

Likewise..if I read anything I would like to experience everything myself.

Even in worldy life its the same. Learning everything from text book is totally different from what that stares at your face.

I will give you a simple example.

Dengue fever is thought to present with High Grade Fever, bodypain and so on.

But once I saw a case of a person who had No Fever..no symptoms but only told me that she had some slight rashes on her palms.

Now this person was also pregnant and was diagnosed by another doctor as skin allergy.

Then I found out that her husband had dengue fever a few days ago.

So I wondered if she too was bitten by a mosquito but may be the pregnancy had altered the symptoms of Dengue.

So I sent the blood for test and it was Dengue Fever!

At a medical meet I once brought up this case and the Dengue expert laughed at me saying "how can anyone with Dengue not have fever?"
He didnt have an answer so he made fun of me!

A truly learned person would have thought deeply in case Dengue was getting different these days.

So you see..now the new case studies show Dengue symptoms are mutating...no more like what it used to be.It need not have the classical symptoms anymore.

So Sravna..experiences of others..might be right for that time and not for all times and when we keep an open mind we do not lose anything.

 

[krish44]

Dear Krishji,

If maya exists SRK does not exist.There is no way SRK could have had an affair with her.

pl see the film and decide.lol

 

[renuka]

Dear Sravna,

Dont waste your time watching the full movie.Just see the important scenes ...that's enough.

The best part of the film is SRK's uncovered gluteus maximus.

He swore after that movie that he will never do such movies again.

At that time he was struggling to build his career so he agreed for such scenes which he regretted badly after the movie.

Anyway the man has kept his word..he did not do such scenes ever.

You tube does not give all the juicy links becos of censorship.Daily motion does not censor!LOL

 

[sravna]

Dear Krishji,

The film is just a projection. Wha t you see is not real

 

[krish44]

Dear Sravna,

Dont waste your time watching the full movie.Just see the important scenes ...that's enough.

The best part of the film is SRK's uncovered gluteus maximus.

He swore after that movie that he will never do such movies again.

At that time he was struggling to build his career so he agreed for such scenes which he regretted badly after the movie.

Anyway the man has kept his word..he did not do such scenes ever.

You tube does not give all the juicy links becos of censorship.Daily motion does not censor!LOL

Sravnaji, escape from this thread and see real mayamemsahib

do not be mislead by mayaji of this thread.lol

 

[Vaagmi]

Maya exists. When you visit Chennai nxt inform me. I will introduce you to her. She is my next door college going girl.

 

[auh]

Ayam is Maya !

 

[renuka]

Ayam in Malay means chicken!LOL

Anyway I know what Auh means..Maya read backwards is Ayam.

 

[Vaagmi]

Ayam in Malay means chicken!LOL

Anyway I know what Auh means..Maya read backwards is Ayam.

1. Ayam is the name when the Maya does a sirsaasana.

2. Or it can be tht Maya when she stands before a mirror she becomes Ayam. Mental projection when reflected becomes Ayam. LOL.

 

[Brahmanyan]

Maya:
Here is my understanding of "Maya"
The word "Maya" literally means "that is not". All that we perceive and experience through our body, mind and intellect are not true (real). They are transient and fleeting manifestations of the world. There is a perceiver in us who or that is permanent, unchanging and true. We are endowed with all these at birth.
The physical World which we perceive through our senses is real as well as unreal. At the time of happening it looks real. But,the world which we experience is unreal because it is unstable, impermanent, transient and illusory and changing. We see the changes every second. So this changing world, which is not permanent is caused by Maya or illusion, not real, or the changeless.
Confusing indeed.

In Srimath Bhagavad Gita - Chapter 7 Paramahamsa Vijnana Yoga (Knowledge of Ultimate Truth)
Lord tries to explain Maya to Arjuna in the following words:

Ye chaiva saattvikaa bhaavaa raajasaastaamasaashcha ye;
Matta eveti taanviddhi na twaham teshu te mayi. (12)

Whatever being (and objects) that are pure, active and inert, know that they proceed from Me.
They are in Me, yet I am not in them.

Tribhirgunamayair bhaavairebhih sarvamidam jagat;
Mohitam naabhijaanaati maamebhyah paramavyayam.(13)

Deluded by these Natures (states or things) composed of the three qualities of Nature,
all this world does not know Me as distinct from them and immutable.

Daivee hyeshaa gunamayee mama maayaa duratyayaa;
Maameva ye prapadyante maayaametaam taranti te. (14)

Verily this divine illusion of Mine made up of the qualities (of Nature) is difficult to cross over;
those who take refuge in Me alone cross over this illusion.

Brahmanyan,
Bangalore.