Eeya Chombu Rasam Unique to TBs

[arunshanker]

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“Eeya Chombu” discussion is futile,very irrational and un-Scientific.Kaareeyam (Plumbum) with which once Eeya Chombus were made ,has been shown to be very Toxic even while inhaling.Kaareeyam (Lead) has a very high Specific Gravity (11.35) almost very near to Mercury(13.55).Lead goes and sits in Neurons and Nephrons and is Not easily washed off in the Urine(due to high Density).It chelates with enzymes containing Sulphhydryl-SH- groups of Cystein,Cystin etc .

One of the main causes for the pathology of lead is that it interferes with the activity an essential enzyme called delta-aminolevulinic acid dehydratase, or ALAD, which is important in the biosynthesis of heme, the cofactor found in hemoglobin. Lead also inhibits the enzyme ferrochelatase, another enzyme involved in the formation of heme. Ferrochelatase catalyzes the joining of protoporphyrin and Fe2+ to form heme.Lead's interference with heme synthesis results in production of zinc protoporphyrin and the development of anemia. Another effect of lead's interference with heme synthesis is the buildup of heme precursors, such as aminolevulinic acid, which may be directly or indirectly harmful to neurons.

Dr.Somayaji.S.(Retired Deputy Director(Bio-Chemistry M/O Health & F.W.GOI.,Once Assistant Professor In Nutrition and Hospital Dietetics..

Actually Dr. Somayaji
I cant understand your statement that it is futile to discuss the issue
I guess we all know the mechanism of action of lead but that is not what I thought I would gain from the discussion I wanted info on actually lead content of the vessel and also what amount of lead is taken up by the body if we consume
1. fresh rasam
2. stored rasam
Could you throw some light here with possible published papers for reference?

 

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ஆஹா இது ரசமான விஷயம் போலிருக்கே!

 

[Somayaji.S]

sri.Arun Shankar ji,--thanks for your input.

I mean "futile" in the sense-- insisting that my grandmother's(Paatti's) "Eeya chombu rasam" is very "tasty" and all that.Precisely i meant the chelation of Ferrum and prevention of the formation of Heme (the Prosthetic group) of Hemo-globin-and the enzyme ferrochelatase--resulting in Anemia.Another protein affected is Ferritin in the blood.I did not want to go deeply into the mechanisms and all that.It is "chronic" toxicity-so one does see the effects immediately,unless the blood and tissue levels cross a "Threshold" vaue and results in "acute" emergency.

A lot of information on "Lead Poisoning" is available in the literature and in developed countries "Lead Abatement' from old buildings and inspection for lead contamination in new buildings is a Billion Dollar business.Chinese and Indian toys reported to conain a lot of lead have been banned in many Euro-American countries.Recent evidences are accumulating regarding "Lead" affecting the developement of small childrens'brain activities.

 

[kunjuppu]

arun,

welcome back after a long time. hope this time, your sojourn is longer.

 

[Raghy]

Respectable members,

As a staunch பக்தன் of rasam, I wish to add my inputs, please.

I do not wish to get into the debate about the ills of lead poisoning. Rasam tastes good irrespective of the vessel. I make rasam in a copper base stainless steel vessel, but still I am able to get the same taste as the lead vessel made rasam; Rasam stored overnight tastes much better than the fresh rasam; in the case of rasa vadai, rasa vadai tastes much better in 'mysore rasam'.
Personally I love the rasam prepared in clay pot. (pot should be thick at the bottom. it takes a long time to get the rasam to boil though).

Cheers!

 

[Nara]

I mean "futile" in the sense-- insisting that my grandmother's(Paatti's) "Eeya chombu rasam" is very "tasty" and all that.

Dear Sir, I was under the impression the Eya chombu is not made of "kaareyam" (lead) but made of eyam which is Zinc. Therefore, I was told, none of the ill effects of lead hold for the eya chombu. Could you please clarify?

Thanks...

 

[RVR]

The quality of metal used in making `Eya sombu' has undergone lot of changes and they don't use pure metal. Hence the shop keeper himself told me about ten years back that it is not to be used for cooking purposes. He may be correct.

All the best

 

[arunshanker]

sri.Arun Shankar ji,--thanks for your input.

I mean "futile" in the sense-- insisting that my grandmother's(Paatti's) "Eeya chombu rasam" is very "tasty" and all that.Precisely i meant the chelation of Ferrum and prevention of the formation of Heme (the Prosthetic group) of Hemo-globin-and the enzyme ferrochelatase--resulting in Anemia.Another protein affected is Ferritin in the blood.I did not want to go deeply into the mechanisms and all that.It is "chronic" toxicity-so one does see the effects immediately,unless the blood and tissue levels cross a "Threshold" vaue and results in "acute" emergency.

A lot of information on "Lead Poisoning" is available in the literature and in developed countries "Lead Abatement' from old buildings and inspection for lead contamination in new buildings is a Billion Dollar business.Chinese and Indian toys reported to conain a lot of lead have been banned in many Euro-American countries.Recent evidences are accumulating regarding "Lead" affecting the developement of small childrens'brain activities.

I want you to be clear here Dr. Somayaji
I am not looking for the toxicity information of lead I myself as I have mentioned in this thread earlier written a detail review based on state of the art literature and my own research on the of toxicity and mode of action of all important heavy metals Please do have a look at the review here http://www.agriculture.frih.net/c21.pdf

I will paste the part on lead here as follows
Mode of Toxic Action. Possible mechanisms for lead toxicity include
competition with and substitution for calcium, disruption of calcium homeostasis, stimulation of release of calcium from mitochondria, and opening of mitochondrial transition pore. In addition, direct damage to mitochondria and mitochondrial membranes by generation of ROS is also seen. Disruption of tissue oxidant/antioxidant balance, alteration of lipid metabolism, and substitution for zinc in various zinc-mediated processes are some of the metabolic repercussions of lead toxicity [Ahamed et al., 2007]. Lead toxicity development due to calcium interaction has gained considerable amount of attention by researchers. Calcium blocks the uptake of lead through the intestine because lead is a strong blocker of
calcium channels. Lead and calcium compete for the same binding sites on a large family of ion-binding proteins composed of calmodulin and related proteins. Calmodulin serves as a sensor for the concentration of calcium within cells. Lead acts by displacing calcium ions bound to calmodulin. Lead impairs normal calcium homeostasis and uptake by calcium membrane channels and substitutes for calcium in calcium
sodium ATP pumps. Impact of lead on brain activity is explained by the fact that lead also blocks access of calcium into nerve terminals, thereby blocking calcium movement into the mitochondria of brain cells, resulting in a decrease in energy production to perform brain functions. Lead also blocks heme synthesis, thereby increasing levels of the precursor daminolevulinic acid (ALA). ALA suppresses GABAmediated
neurotransmission by inhibiting its release and also possibly by competing with GABA at receptors. Lead also can produce anemia, both by interfering with heme synthesis and by decreasing iron absorption from the gut. Lead’s ability to substitute for zinc, mentioned previously, affords another avenue by which lead can act as a neurodevelopmental toxicant. By displacing zinc, lead can alter the regulation of genetic transcription through sequence-specific DNA-binding zinc finger protein or zinc-binding sites in receptor channels (Arun Shanker 2008)
Ref
Arun K Shanker (2008) Mode of action and toxicity of trace elements In: Trace Elements as Contaminants and Nutrients: Consequences in Ecosystems and Human Health Edited by: M. N. V. Prasad. Pp 523-550 John Wiley & Sons, Inc
What I want to know here is 1.What is the composition of Eya Chombu as determined in PPM quantity of lead (Pb) by Atomic Absorption Spectro or ICPMS?
2. what is the variation in this qty in various eya chombu found in shops in TN
3. What is the amount of lead in PPM that in transferred to the Rasam and in turn what is the qty that is taken up by the body
4. Is that qty enough to trigger its toxic mode of action
5. What are the hazards of storage of rasam and is it advisable to store if up to what length of time
There is one article of relevance here I have uploaded in my earlier post
http://www.tamilbrahmins.com/general-discussions/2215-eeya-chombu-rasam-unique-tbs-4.html#post23063
Thanks
Arun

 

[sadasivam.sridharan]

After going thru the discussion on Eaya Chombu, subtle fear comes up in the mind and there is a doubt now whether we have to sacrifice consumption of eaya chombu rasam forthwith.

 

[DURGADASAN]

Certainly there is no such need sir. All our forefathers have used this and lived healthy lives only. None of them has complained like this. Might be due to new evolution and knowledge these things came to light. Even if its so, there is no need that we have to quit that. People will go to restaurants and eat food mixed with Ajinomoto for flavour. This particular chemical is even abandoned in many countries and here in India its getting advertised. Its a carcinogen, causing colon cancer. But are we not using that?? We are much much resistant to everything. The foreigners who are having fear to all have created these stupidities. From the lived and living examples of our own forefathers its very clear that consuming eeya sombu rasam doesnt lead to any lead-effects.

So, lets have it and enjoy it...

Raghy uncle, pot-rasam will also be nice. My mom sometimes do that. Especially she do "JEERAGA RASAM" in that.

Pranams

 

[pannvalan]

Lead is 'Eeyam' or 'Velleeyam';

Zinc is 'Thuthanaagam'.

Tin is 'Kaareeyam'.

Tasting eeya chombu rasam once in a while is alright. If you fear for everything, you cannot enjoy your life at all.

 

[kunjuppu]

durga,

i was under the impression that the life expectancy of the previous generations was much much less than the current one.

so, please let me know, what you mean by longevity, when records show that the average male died in his 40s & 50s till the middle of the last century.

personally, i think, the consumption of eeyam alone, if everything else that we eat is harmless, will cause lead poisoning. i think, it is the cumulative effect of so many things that are harmful to us, that will ultimately cause our illness or demise.

nowadays, it has been proved without a doubt that smoking cigarettes will cause lung cancer. i was a young boy when the news of linking tobacco & cancer started coming out.

to me, then, it had a panache & style associated with it, which i hoped to emulate when i grew up. thanks to the immense information dissemination, i never took to smoking ciggies.

perhaps, nobody cares to do such propaganda against eeyachombu, could be because, it is a 'tamil brahmin' thing, and does not warrant the attention or research from the scientific or regulatory groups.

even the brahmins who cook with eeyacchombu, i don't know, if they do it every day or once in a while. while it is only natural for us to romanticise our ancestors, i personally think, that at their time, they were people like us.

based on those times, availability, money power and social stigmas, they led a life, which with each previous generation, was different from the 1900s onwards, when the TB community took to English education and migration.

Previous to that, ie 1899 and beyond that, probably the TB life and lifestyle did not change for centuries. atleast my take. so, to sum up, i would not say that there was longevity or great health in those times because records prove a shorter lifespan, greater miscarriages and deaths during delivery and above all widespread diseases like smallpox and TB.

we must take care when we eulogize our ancestors. give them their due, but by no means were they omniscient.

thank you.

 

[arunshanker]

Certainly there is no such need sir. All our forefathers have used this and lived healthy lives only. None of them has complained like this. Might be due to new evolution and knowledge these things came to light. Even if its so, there is no need that we have to quit that. People will go to restaurants and eat food mixed with Ajinomoto for flavour. This particular chemical is even abandoned in many countries and here in India its getting advertised. Its a carcinogen, causing colon cancer. But are we not using that?? We are much much resistant to everything. The foreigners who are having fear to all have created these stupidities. From the lived and living examples of our own forefathers its very clear that consuming eeya sombu rasam doesnt lead to any lead-effects.

So, lets have it and enjoy it...

Raghy uncle, pot-rasam will also be nice. My mom sometimes do that. Especially she do "JEERAGA RASAM" in that.

Pranams

I think Mr DURGADASAN you are being too strong in saying The foreigners who are having fear to all have created these stupidities.Like I told I have done enough research myself to know that Pb is toxic I am not a foreigner in fact I am TB who has been having Eaya Chombu Rasam and is continuing to have
regarding Aginomoto - we do not eat everyday like rasam and it is a different situation and what is more is that it is not harmful as you say

 

[Nara]

.....- we do not eat everyday like rasam and it is a different situation and what is more is that it is not harmful as you say

OK Arun, all you people have confused me enough. Please tell me, what is the bottom line? For a layman like me, what is your recommendation?

Cheers!

 

[sadasivam.sridharan]

OK Arun, all you people have confused me enough. Please tell me, what is the bottom line? For a layman like me, what is your recommendation?

Cheers!

I feel that we can put the bhaaram on God and continue to have the delicacy as our forefathers used to have.For them,probably ignorance was bliss and for us knowledge is troublesome.

 

[arunshanker]

OK Arun, all you people have confused me enough. Please tell me, what is the bottom line? For a layman like me, what is your recommendation?

Cheers!

Here goes
the bottom line is : Eya chombu at least the present day ones are not harmful if you Eat up your rasam fresh do not store in eaya chombu for more than 2 hours
I am taking various samples of the Eyachombu and analyzing for its lead content will get back to you with the results
Arun

 

[B.Krishnamurthy]

Eeya Chombu Rasam unique to TBs

Sir,
People who enjoy Rasam prepared in Eeya chombu need not have any worry that it may melt.I find in Chennai(in our area,Nanganallur
a shop"Balasubramanian Metals" gives 'Eeya Chombu' in ssvessel outer shield.You have to select a ssvessel and give order for preparation of 'Eeya Chombu' of the required weight.Even if the lead content melts because of our carelessness, the melted lead will be inside the ssvessel.
Nowadays Rasam is given as soup not only in Dinner but even in LUNCH.Recently I had visited a hotel named"Vaidheegam" in Hauzkas/Greenpark village area in NEWDELHI with my friends for Lunch and they first serve you'RASAM' in tumbler with a fried Papad.
I was informed that there is no restriction.You can have any quantity free of cost.
While discussing about 'Rasam' I remember an editorial written in
the"HINDU" about Rasam.When Pandit Jawaharlal Nehru was the Prime Minister one person from Uttar Pradesh by name 'CHANDRA SEKHAR was the Health Minister( He was not a widely known person
and not the same person who became Prime minister for a few months).Once he visited chennai and would have tasted 'RASAM'.
He made a statement to the press that'Rasam' is not very healthy and should be banned in INDIA.The next day a strongly worded editorial appeared in the'HINDU' criticising the Minister.
B.Krishnamurthy

 

[sadasivam.sridharan]

Probably the so called Health Minister did not know the soothing effect of hot hot melagu rasam with sutta appalam to the souls suffering from sour throat and running nose.What an ignorant health minister!!

 

[DURGADASAN]

Dear Kunjuppu Uncle

How can we conclude that their longevity is short? Am not saying world-wide statistical analyses and research. Both of my grandfathers (90 and 96 are still alive and strong enough to do their own works). Both of my grand mothers passed away (86 and 82). I just said these taking them as live examples. Eating eeya chombu rasam alone will not lead to either longevity or shortivity supposes to be. But why I said this is, there is no such reports in our community who has some disorders because of this. Its our pride. We can do research in so many things and even prove that mother's milk is having DDT in it. Can we stop that to the children?

Miscarriages and shorter lifespan might be due to poor medical advances in that time. You should also think on other side as a coin will always have two sides. Even in that timeperiod people (Even our own TB) have more than dozen children na...

We cannot prove lead is the cause for smallpox and TB, I suppose. Or else even Arun will do research and prove that also, who knows???

My opinion is consuming eeya chombu rasam let it be good/bad for health, its tastier to eat. Thats all. Even in my previous posts my stand is this only.

Dear Arun

Might be now you are doing research in this. But what journals you refer and quote will be from them only na? I just said they had initiated these. I didnt say that they are the only guys doing research. Even aruns are there... "The foreigners who are having fear to all have created these stupidities." I think the word "created" is in past tense.

Pranams

 

[pannvalan]

Dear Kunjuppu,

Since the longevity (life expectancy) in those days was calculated by averaging the age of all living persons then, it was about 44 or so (some 6 decades ago). Now, that poverty has come down, diseases like cholera, chicken pox etc. having been almost abolished, education/literacy level has increased and people don't drink dirty water from open source (ponds/wells/tanks), the average life expectancy has increased. But, as far as middle class is concerned, which Tamil Brahmins were,
people were healthy and lived for over 90 years. Until 1980s, it was very common to see old brahmins in their 90s and even crossed 100. But today, living beyond 75 years is uncertain and whatever beyond is a bonus only.

Reverting to the topic on hand, I am also against these things.

1. Heating the food (cooked in the morning) again for night dinner and consuming it.
2. Preserving any dishes for over 12 hours with or without refrigeration.

If we observe these two precautions, no harm will be done. As far as I am concerned, I never carry forward any food or cooked dishes even to the next part of the day. (say, after 3 or 4 hours).

 

[Nara]

...My opinion is consuming eeya chombu rasam let it be good/bad for health, its tastier to eat. Thats all.

Dear DD, is it possible that this is just a nostalgic feeling?

In any case, it is quite easy to test this hypothesis that eeye chombu rasam is tastier. Have somebody cook two batches of rasam, one in eeya chombu, and the other in just any non-eeya vessel, with the exact same recipe. Have that person pour it out into indistinguishable cups marked A and B. Send the cook out and have a third person serve it you. See whether one tastes better and if so which one. If we can get enough people to do this and report the results we will get a better idea about this taste thing.

Cheers!

p.s. Thanks Arun for the recommendation, I will follow it.

 

[sadasivam.sridharan]

When people say that eaya chombu is injurious to the health,there is a belief that when water is stored in copper vessel overnight and consumed early in the morning it can cure many diseases pertaining to stomach and digestive system.I am not aware how far this is true and is there any scientific evidence for this.

 

[drsundaram]

When people say that eaya chombu is injurious to the health,there is a belief that when water is stored in copper vessel overnight and consumed early in the morning it can cure many diseases pertaining to stomach and digestive system.I am not aware how far this is true and is there any scientific evidence for this.

Sri Sadasivam. Scientifically the presence of traces of copper in drinking water is ok and helpful even ; but larger quantities ingestion may give rise to intestinal disorders and may even lead to improper liver functioning and eventually to renal impairment.