From a Moderator's Viewpoint

[kunjuppu]

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I would like to briefly enunciate my own views on moderation of this forum.

The intention of moderation is not for everyone to toe the line.

The forum has some set expectations, protocols and guidelines as stated in the outset. Let us add some civility, decency, mutual respect and regard, not only for ourselves but for our community.

The primary duty of a moderator is to maintain the decorum and integrity of its mission statements.

I do not expect every member to claim to be a tamil Brahmin. But every member should respect the sensitivities of tamil Brahmins in their expressions and views.

The TB community itself is a wide spectrum of beliefs, practices, geographies and above all viewpoints. There is no single benchmark, except the fact, that most of us TBs owe that status to our parentage.

TB is also a community in a fervent, and like all other Indian communities, struggling to come to terms with the fast paced change of this world, combined with the insecurities these changes have come to represent whether it be increasingly less observation of rituals, or the lack of available brides for our boys.

All these and several other angsts, like that of kanchi mutt, are discussed here, not with an intention to destroy, but to reform, revive and flourish. Atleast, that is the way I see it.

Critiques from within the community, I believe, contains a sense of care to reform. Critiques from outside the community, should be very much aware of our sensitivities.

It does not behoove well to discuss the merits of Bhagvad Gita in a council of mullahs. Neither does it appear proper to denigrate the tenets of islam in the same council. We demand the same respect and behaviour here for those not claiming to adhering to the basic values of Hinduism in all its offshoots.

Contempt of the forum can come both from the extreme left, extreme right and from outside. All these three groups have their own agenda, and many among them, just due to the title of this forum, assume a sense of entitlement with which comes obnoxious behaviour, particularly towards other communities of india or abroad.

This is an increasingly small world, and we cannot just wish away folks whom we don’t like. The sooner we learn to share, accommodate and partner, the better would be our own life; and better would be the world too.

Another type of insult prevalent here is the tendency to treat this forum as a joke. Inane, senseless or absurd answers/questions are posed, all in apparent good faith.

As a moderator, it does not take long, for us to sniff through these insolents as to me, as they prey on the innocence and goodwill of the participants, who post replies in good faith and with full effort – only to be rebuffed by yet another inane or stupid query.

The jokers have been warned, banned and yet they choose to come back to practice their nefarious craft again and again – one such character s007bala comes foremost to my mind.

I am very concerned in protecting the innocents and the good faithed members against what I perceive to be charlatans.

Also, I believe in the integrity and prosperity of india. So any posts which appear promote enmity among Indian communities, harbour ill will towards india or indicate a desire to harm the integrity of the Indian union is a no-no.

The other moderators have a lot more patience to tolerate deviance than I do.

I am amazed at the tolerance and leeway shown here for dissonance and arrogance. I would personally give short shrift to many of those characters.

I think the participants here are adults, and I credit them with sufficient sensitivity (சொரணை) that one reprimand or warning should be enough, to correct the objectionable tenets of their posts.

One warning should be enough for adults, I think. We are not children here to carry the perpetual cane and walk around and swing it as a remidner of deterrence.

It is an open discussion among moderators, as to whether publicly reasons should be given why a member is banned. Some are blatant enough for the public to realize why those members should be shown the door. Other such actions are not so apparent.

Hopefully, banning does not discourage new participants. I hope.

Moderation is a personal subjective task. There is no scientific method.

We moderators consult each other a lot in the face of insubordination or deviance. To this date, since my assumption of this duty, we have acted with like minds on all our actions.

Hope this explains where I come from sometimes, with my bold red stroke.

I welcome other moderators to contribute their thoughts on this topic…

 

[KRS]

I fully agree with the posting above. This is a very good explanation.

Let me also say, that what we do as moderators have two aspects:

1. To be vigilant against those who misuse this Forum
2. To encourage participation without fear on the part of those who do not mean us harm, but who genuinely bring us fresh ideas, even though they may be controversial

Any, 'patience' exhibited by some of us is due to point 2 above. It is very easy to strike with 'red'.But, a Moderator's role here is like a razor's edge, making sure we do not stifle ideas, as bad as they may be.

Any 'bans' that have occurred recently, have occurred not because of any ideas freely expressed that though odious, have crossed the limis of decency and the Forum's rules, except a couple. But because, one in particular is from a person, identified above in Sri kunjuppu's posting who keeps on trying to 'break in' and post. His avatars are now banned. We have various techniques to spot such persons, as the history shows.

By the way I posted the following in another thread. But, because of it's relevance here, I am posting it again here, despite taking extra disk space:

Dear Sri Venkataramani Ji,

This forum does not permit 'everybody'. There is a long list of 'banned' handles here, who tried to vilify our community or try to be abusive in language and sometimes vulgar in thoughts.

Is calling Mahatma 'opportunistic' abusive and/or vulgar? In my opinion, unless we know why the poster said it under what circumstance, it is not.

This Forum caters to all ideas as long as they do not mean us harm. And censorship of free ideas have to be applied very carefully. Because censorship lowers the threshold of accepted standards and norms and that is a slippery slide.

For example, we have instances in India, where free thoughts (Salman Rushdie comes to mind) were censored, just because one community said that their feelings were hurt, even though majority of them did not read the book! I do not want this for our community. Then, if we discuss liberal ideas, our orthodox will cry foul that their 'feelings' are hurt and vice versa!

This is why, we the moderators allow certain ideas, even though they are odious to some of us. I am as much offended by the statement on the Mahatma as you are. But that does not raise it to the level of censorship, in my opinion. Now if the same person who said what he said about the Mahatma, then goes about posting that it was right that he was assassinated, then he would be banned. I hope you see the difference.

In my opinion, our community only benefits from open and honest dialog of any idea, subject to the limits based on common decency.

As moderators, we are trying our best to enforce this.

Regards,
KRS

 

[praveen]

It has been posted very clearly above by both Kunjuppu and KRS.

Under the circumstances, it does not take long for us to become a closed community, but then that would attract attention from a large group of unwanted organizations and individuals.

Having a stand like that would only harm us. There are a lot of sympathizers on the other side too and because of the way some of us see them, they are reluctant to come on board and help us.

the reason we are here is because of our reluctance to keep an open mind and go with the times. we have always "lived" in our ancestral ways. I am not saying it is not good, but as times change, we need to evolve and change those ways. Sticking to the past leaves us far behind that others. (you cannot fight a war with bows and arrows these days). We are no longer the forward community, it is just a tag that have been put on us. We are the real backward community, with the means to change, but reluctant to change.

Coming back, we allow everyone as long as they do not mean us any harm.

Almost all of us are highly educated and adults, so we should know what is right and what is wrong. In a public forum like this, we also must appreciate others have their own views and thoughts. trying to mock them/criticize them is childish and one that is not taken lightly.

We are trying to have a environment where knowledge is freely transferred, views and ideas are exchanged for the betterment of the community as whole.

Its a thankless job and we are def trying our best to do so.

Thanks,

 

[RVR]

Dear Sarvasri Praveen ji, KRS ji and Kunjuppu ji,

This forum is highly liberal which I appreciate.

Let us have differences of opinion but still have healthy discussions.

Most of the Brahmins including TB have liberal views with a mindset for reforms. However there is difference only in the approach to reform. Personally I have noticed lot of reforms have taken place without my own knowledge. Forced reforms only create irritations.

Raja Ram Mohan Rai is a brahmin. The temple I mostly patronise `Vaishnavi temple', Thirumullaivayil, Chennai permits even muslims to perform pooja to the Devi directly. There is no gender discrimination in the temple. No hundi. No paid darshan inspite of about one KM Q during Navarathri festival.

However publishing anti-brahmin sentiments in this forum has to be avoided. Bharathi wrote several poems on Hindu religion, Patriotism, Social reforms etc. None of us are against Bharathi. He has written few poems criticising brahmins which are published here.

You have banned several people in the past. Personally I have not requested you to ban anybody. But the same people enter with a different name. You have identified such people also. Your reasons for banning them has not vanished. I don't know why they continue in this forum even now.

Personally I have attended EVR's meetings at my younger days. When I go for such meetings, I go with a particular mindset. Mentally I was prepared to accept criticisms about our community.

However when I come to this forum, I come with a different mindset. Let us discuss all the reform points freely and frankly. However I don't want anti-brahmin sentiments to go unnoticed by the moderators.

I am on the verge of retirement. My children are all well settled. I have enough money to take care of my family. I would like to spend my future only for charitable activities. I am not going to limit my services only for our community alone. But at the same time, I would like to spend maximum time for uplifting poor and downtrodden members of our community. Since other people are trying to suppress our community, I have developed a mindset to support our community.

My only request is, let the freedom of expression in this forum, is not misused by few to criticise our own community.

 

[praveen]

Let us have differences of opinion but still have healthy discussions.

My only request is, let the freedom of expression in this forum, is not misused by few to criticise our own community.

Freedom of expression is something that will be a key point in this forum and you can be sure we will deal with those who try to misuse that for their own purpose.
Only on that aspects, you might see some members being banned/warned/removed.

Otherwise as long as there is a healthy exchange of ideas happening, all will be fine

 

[RVR]

Freedom of expression is something that will be a key point in this forum and you can be sure we will deal with those who try to misuse that for their own purpose.
Only on that aspects, you might see some members being banned/warned/removed.

Otherwise as long as there is a healthy exchange of ideas happening, all will be fine

Thanks . All the best

 

[pbkhema]

Namaskaram All,When I logged in today after a long gap there was a pop up message asking me to log in regularly.I would like to log in more often.But as some of the views expressed affected my sentiments I kept off.But each person has his own views.So long as they stick to the guidelines they must be free to express their opinion.If a member does not like the posting he can simply ignore it.

 

[kunjuppu]

Namaskaram All,When I logged in today after a long gap there was a pop up message asking me to log in regularly.I would like to log in more often.But as some of the views expressed affected my sentiments I kept off.But each person has his own views.So long as they stick to the guidelines they must be free to express their opinion.If a member does not like the posting he can simply ignore it.

welcome back pbk.

as you have probably realized, this is a public forum with certain guidelines.

this forum is not what some people would like it to be. this forum is what some people would not like it to be.

but hopefully, there are sufficient topics and sufficient folks who reflect your way of thinking or close to it.

while you may find kinship with this crowd, those with lateral or opposing views, present you an even better gift. ie one of exercising your grey cells and in the process, finding common ground and also expanding your worldview.

if you are particularly concerned about any specific presentation or personality, always feel free to send the moderators a private message.

thank you.

 

[v.lalithakumar]

dear elderly respectable "JIS"namasskars. freedom is a double edged dagger.actually ones freedom ends where the individuals nose ends.freedom should not affect the others.in that sense TB"s are much vulnerable.they are very much calm and quite.but it is mistaken as their weakness and taken for granted that they are help less.but iam quite happy to under stand that our forum free from such clutches and its members are enjoying their full liberty within the limits.(LET KNOWBLE THOUGHTS COME FROM ALL SIDES)with namaskars.v.lalithakumar

 

[RVR]

Dear Sri KRS ji,

Even though I registered in this forum long back, I was practically inactive. Only during the last four months or so I am active. I was just participating through posting my views.

I opened a thread about a joke only last month which received fairly good viewership but low response/participation from other members

This month only I opened on a controversial topic `Rituals – Is it a science or superstition?'. To my surprise it received excellent response. Please read the thread fully, if possible write your views and make your own conclusions.

Based on the above success, I opened another thread only on 17th of this month- `spiritual frauds'. I have not mentioned any specific person or God men but for initiating the discussions. I just searched internet for an event. The weblink which I have posted in my first posting in the thread came during my search. Since it was already broadcast in BBC, I preferred it. In fact before the abrupt stop from my side, I saw Senior Member Happy Hindu ji agreeing with my arguments.

The thread again crossed more than forty postings within the first three days. I was shocked last night around 10 pm (IST) or so when lot of things were removed by you. You could have give me warnings so that I would have restrained myself in the interest of the forum.

I am a follower of Kanchi mutt. I joined the discussions on `re-energising Kanchi mutt' thread much later. I have criticised the present Acharyas in my postings. When you pointed out, I restrained my self on further postings. In fact when some other member provoked me, I replied that I am not answering in the best interest of the cause for which the thread was opened.

If you want, you give BBC links about Kanchi mutt also. I have no problem. Simply because I am a follower of Kanchi mutt, I will not oppose it. If I feel some thing wrong in the postings,.I will argue purely on the merit of the case – if I feel otherwise, I will not defend the indefensible Most of the smarthas in our forum are followers of Kanchi mutt. For their sake, postings on Kanchi mutt was not edited in the past.

There is a thread `Kalki Baghavan' in our forum. Both for and against postings are there. There are followers of the so called Kalki Baghavan in our forum also. But I don't know why their sentiments were not given similar treatment like the treatment given to a particular God men in `Spiritual Frauds' forum.

`Spiritual Frauds' can cover all the God men of our religion indulging in misuse of of our religion using few tricks and making money. If you remove a particular Godman name, is it correct.? Those who want to defend him, let them defend him with facts. As long as he is in public view, every one of us should have the right to discuss about him. I don't know why you are trying to give special treatment to him. The same benefit was not given to Kanchi Acharyas and Kalki Baghavan whose name carries thread titles. Whereas this Godman name doesn't even appear in the title.

I want all the God men indulging in spiritual frauds to be exposed. It is purely in public interest and I have nothing to gain. Based on the past experience of our members, at least others will not get cheated. The younger generation members will learn from the past misdeeds.

Each one of us have different views on different topics. Prof Nara ji and me argued in some other forums vehementally. We were not in agreement. But I am sure all our members would have enjoyed it from the sidelines. I have highest regard for Prof Nara ji and his views even though I am not agreeing in toto.

I am enjoying poetic talent of our younger member Durgadasan. I am enjoying the knowledge of Akuraji, Vikramaji, Narayanee ji, Pannvalan ji and G.Soundarajan ji in our ancient Tamil Bakthi Literature. I am enjoying the humorous comments of Kunjuppu ji. I like the talent of Swaminatha Sharma ji in the astrology field. Even though astrology is criticised by few members, some of us have requested him to continue his writing which he gracefully accepted and has continued to enlighten us. Ramacchandran ji is doing lot of research about our ancient heritage. I am also enjoying your postings in several other threads.

The list is endless. I would have missed lot of names. Please excuse me.

If we have to participate effectively, we should have an open mind. We should not try to avoid a particular person however big he may be. The God man whom you are defending is not our community member whereas Kanchi Acharyas belong to our community.

I am very much hurt when all the postings in the thread where this particular Godman's name appears have been removed. I am in no mood to continue in the discussions. Let me see whether time heals my wounds.

All the best

 

[akura]

hurting

Dear Sirs,
Hurting , getting hurt all painful things .

பிறருக்கு கொடுப்பதையே ஒருவன் தனக்கு கொடுத்துக் கொள்கிறான் ... ஸ்ரீ ரமணா.
What you give to others , that is what you are giving to yourself .

Even it pains me when an unknown Vathiyar's structure is criticized
Doing siththis hurts the person who does it .......more than others who view it. Others if they do not like they can keep off from the person whom we consider unfit .
But it is going to damage the individual more , which is to be worried by the person concerned.

சித்திகள் , அதை செய்பவர்களைத்தான் அதிகம் பாதிக்கும் .
வேடிக்கை பார்ப்பவர்கள் விலகிவிடுவார்கள் , அவர்கள் இஷ்டப்பட்டால் .
சித்திகள் செய்பவர் அது அவரை பாதிக்கிறது என்று உணர்ந்து செயல் படுவது அவர் கவலை .

நமக்கு கிடைத்தது புளியம் கொம்பு என்றால் அதை விட்டு முருங்கைக் கொம்பை பிடித்து பார்க்கலாமா ?

 

[kunjuppu]

venkat,

greetings and regards sir.

please permit me to give my own 'moderator' view inside a member. and how i would like the members to treat us in return.

i am only speaking for myself, and how i view myself as both a member and moderator.

moderators, like members, are humans too. it is a job, role assumed, because i felt, that i can contribute to the forum, in more ways than one.

the most obvious way is being an active member and interacting at various levels.

people have tried to define what this forum should be and what it should not. but what fascinates me, is that this forum, like a river, has its own flow and defines its own sense of direction.

i aim, as a moderator, to be inclusive. in the process, many a times, bold red fonts have been exercised. believe me, it is not easy to do such, for the first thought that comes to my mind, is i hope that the person takes it in the right spirit.

by right spirit, i mean, not that the poster should agree with me. but, that the poster does not get angry at me, or get angry enough to walk away from the forum.

nothing would dismay me more than a member of excellent standing, such as yourself, quitting the forum due to a bold red font i exercised, to what i perceived as in the interest of the larger community.

you can definitely and must question my judgement if you disagree. but walk away? that is simply not fair to either of us. i would certainly expect to deserve a better treatment from you.


the right response, i hope, to moderator decisions, would be to argue back. politley, use all the tools of logic, rhetoric, common sense, consistency and above all to remember to present this with a sense of humour and calmness.


if in the end we should remain in disagreement, let it be so. but not at the expense of forum participation, for as you can see, this forum is indeed wholesome in its width and depth. a little dent here or there, should not make a difference in the level or enthusiasm of participaton.

continuing civility and friendship, in the face of disagreement, i think, is a sign of true adherence to the principles of this forum, for only then, we truly accept the concept, that the sum of us, is infinitely better than each single one of us, standing alone. ne pas?

finally, i would hope, that the poster, would never consider that the moderator was personally attacking any member, and hopefully the poster would not do the same.

it would behoove us all to remember, that while today, the moderator may have ruled against you in favour of another's beliefs, tomorrow the tables can be turned in your favour.

also, while the moderators are subjective in their rulings, they have given reasons as to their actions.

here in this forum, we take public accountability far more earnestly and with seriousness, which is quite different to the high handed dealings i have seen in other forums.

i think, we are more democratic, in that, even though we are appointees, we are open to criticism and answer the public on all queies re our decisions.

i, as a moderator, do not see myself sitting on a pedestal, dispensing judgements.

instead i see myself at the centre of a round table, spinning at speeds urged by the tones and content of the posts, and trying to find a balance between content, quality and above all, a sense of fairness in the moderating process.

moderation, unlike justice, is not blind. it is subjective, and valid to the context of this day, this subject, this forum and these members. the conditions can change tomorrow, but we hope, the moderator's eyes are keenly open to be on guard for the integrity of the forum.

venkat, hoping to see your reply here, with your perspective of ideal moderation and perhaps give me a few pointers. this only, an extension of my previous posts on moderation..

feedback re techniques are always welcome as long as they are neutrally phrased, expounded in generalities, and do not differentiate between the moderators here, as i think, to the public face, we the moderators, are indeed one and the same, irrespective of our different nomenclatures.

thank you.

 

[anandb]

Shri. Kunjippu,

Very well put, sir. This moderation job is hard enough and it would do well that members don't sit on judgment as to what the moderators should be doing and high time we members also take off the emotional quotient from the arguments. Argue with passion is okay but not argue with anger or hatred. It is just a general comment from me and not directed at anyone in particular. I think every view point is valid and a opposing one always makes you think, dig deeper and bring a counter point, so let us all argue or debate or discuss on issues rather than forming an opinion about the person putting forth that argument.

I think we should also refrain from calling names about public figures because there are bound to be supporters for everyone and this just invites the wrath of them that the argument can degenerate into a mudslinging match.

I personally don't have a problem being pulled up or warned if I cross the line and would let the moderators do that job rather then messing around by commenting on it.

Thanks

 

[Nara]

the right response, i hope, to moderator decisions, would be to argue back. politley, use all the tools of logic, rhetoric, common sense, consistency and above all to remember to present this with a sense of humour and calmness.

Where did sarcasm go so quickly

I suppose Super Moderators are excellent judges of where the line is between sarcasm and humor -- BTW this is definitely sarcasm and I don't know how long it will survive.

finally, i would hope, that the poster, would never consider that the moderator was personally attacking any member, and hopefully the poster would not do the same.

Dear K, even though you put yourself down as one with a short fuse, your comment on never considering personal attack is true only in your case. When a moderator is also an active participant it inherently tilts the playing field. Mixing metaphors, it seems the long knives that bleed red ink is always on the ready to come down the head on the chopping block for the protection of innocent herd.

Now I am told I would have been KICKED out long ago. Is this polite or humor or polite humor? I am ready to be kicked out, make my day. I wish to engage in serious debate with occasional banter (especially with you that I enjoy). But crass comments such as "kicking out" really makes me feel unwelcome. How come crude comments like this are not moderated? The knife is only for us mere mortals?

i think, we are more democratic, in that, even though we are appointees, we are open to criticism and answer the public on all queies re our decisions.

In what way are the moderator decisions democratically arrived at? Has there been occasions when a moderator's decision was reversed? Is red ink subject to review by anybody?

This is a private forum owned by a single individual, super moderated by a couple of individuals even though a few more are also in the list. I am operating under this premise. It is not a democratic place. It is often an amusing place, brings a lot of laughs, but not a democratic one. You can make it democratic if you like, but that would require some climbing down.

Cheers!

 

[kunjuppu]

In what way are the moderator decisions democratically arrived at? Has there been occasions when a moderator's decision was reversed? Is red ink subject to review by anybody?

Cheers!

nara,

yes, many many moderator decisions are reversed. they are based on discussions between moderators. also based on requests, feedbacks and also counter arguements from members.

i do think the moderators here listen to and keep to the pulse of the forum. otherwise, there would be no visible footprints of moderation. only silence.

for the purposes of feedback or criticism, we request you to treat moderators as one entity for ultimately we use the bold red font with the same or similar intent.

so, what if this is forum is owned by a person, who operates it with a few moderators? is it wrong? i do not see any value in the statement.

again your claim re democracy does not make sense to me.

perhaps you could put some effort at a business model of a 'democratic' forum taking into consideration the vast and floating membership, adherence to norms and regulations and above all, maintaining the hardware and environment.

it is easy to throw stones at glasshouses. why not come up with suggestions? why not suggest alternatives? don't you think that would mean a more constructive contribution to the forum?

i agree it takes a wee bit more effort. perhaps, that too is worth it, as a price, for many a flippant turnaround posts on the observed supposed chinks in our armour?

folks like yourself, do have a voice here.

you have certain reservations against some of our practices. so be it.

in all fairness to us, please suggest modifications. if those are heeded to and discussed, i think, we are practising our sense of fairness and democracy ie listening to vox populi.

nobody is perfect. we always could count on members of your calibre to monitor us to be the straight and narrow path however you wish to define it

but it sure would be nice if you could elaborate such so that we can atleast understand what we are in default of, atleast with the same gusto if not more.

thank you.

 

[Nara]

Dear Kunjuppu,

My views on democracy in this forum is limited to what I have seen in the brief time I have been here. While the discussion is relatively free, it is hardly democratic. A privately owned forum with appointed moderators whose decisions are not transparent is by definition not democratic. Anyway, I was only responding to your comment on democracy.

This forum cannot be a democratic forum, but some democratic principles such as transparency and accountability can be implemented to make it a more open forum. Last time you asked me for suggestions, I gave some, and you did not even so much acknowledge them. Hope this time there will be some reaction.

[1] Have a pool of moderators and let one or two of them do the active moderation at any given time. May be this is the case already, I don't know.
[2] Rotate this responsibility among the pool in a transparent way.
[3] Prohibit the ones doing active moderation from engaging in any debates.
[4] Simple moderation like foul or vulgar language can be done unilaterally.
[5] Don't moderate ideas just because they are controversial or will hurt the feelings of some people.
[6] Don't let just one moderator edit posts just because he by himself considers it offensive. Let him take it to the pool of moderators and let it be a collective decision. The post in question may be put on hold until a decision is made, quickly. Delayed decision may make the post irrelevant.
[7] If an edit is needed, make sure it is done in a transparent way; publish the reasons for the edit and the vote.
[8] Make sure the pool of moderators represent a cross section of members who have made a commitment to the forum and have demonstrated the temperament suited for impartial moderation. In other words, don't make the pool a rubber stamp for each other.

Over to you, Kunjuppu!

 

[kunjuppu]

Dear Kunjuppu,

My views on democracy in this forum is limited to what I have seen in the brief time I have been here. While the discussion is relatively free, it is hardly democratic. A privately owned forum with appointed moderators whose decisions are not transparent is by definition not democratic. Anyway, I was only responding to your comment on democracy.!

ok. ultimately it comes to the bottom line- whether a member considers this a well run forum for them to participate. the proof of the vote is either being present or walking away. i think so anyway.

This forum cannot be a democratic forum, but some democratic principles such as transparency and accountability can be implemented to make it a more open forum. Last time you asked me for suggestions, I gave some, and you did not even so much acknowledge them. Hope this time there will be some reaction..!

so sorry for ignoring your last set of suggestions. i am sure i would not have deliberately done it. it could be an oversight. it also could be because i missed it completely, as i do not always read through all posts. in such cases, where i have been expecting specific responses, i have sent private message to the receiver, prompting for a reply. if only to give the other side another chance, should they so wish to answer. in this case, i do not remember your suggestions. still, am sorry for giving the impression of ignoring it.

[1] Have a pool of moderators and let one or two of them do the active moderation at any given time. May be this is the case already, I don't know.!

we need more volunteers to get a viable pool. it is a voluntary job and not many takers. perhaps you could put your name in?

[2] Rotate this responsibility among the pool in a transparent way.!

this goes in tandem with my answer for 1. you might have noticed that there is only krs and self.

Prohibit the ones doing active moderation from engaging in any debates.!

with a large enough pool it is possible. personally i would rather participate than moderate.

[4] Simple moderation like foul or vulgar language can be done unilaterally.!

ok

[5] Don't moderate ideas just because they are controversial or will hurt the feelings of some people. !

this is a bigger issue. i am unable to comment on it at this point, as it goes into the heart of what this forum should and should not be. it also becomes a 'managing' issue i think

[6] Don't let just one moderator edit posts just because he by himself considers it offensive. Let him take it to the pool of moderators and let it be a collective decision. The post in question may be put on hold until a decision is made, quickly. Delayed decision may make the post irrelevant.!

again this is logistics. we are volunteers giving our time. to coordinate across time zones when sometimes the urgency of damage of some posts may require immediate action.

[7] If an edit is needed, make sure it is done in a transparent way; publish the reasons for the edit and the vote. !

i think it is being done now ie given reasons. members can always ask for more explanations.

[8] Make sure the pool of moderators represent a cross section of members who have made a commitment to the forum and have demonstrated the temperament suited for impartial moderation. In other words, don't make the pool a rubber stamp for each other.

Over to you, Kunjuppu!

again, this is addressed earlier. dearth of volunteer moderators.

these above are my impromptu opinions and a courtesy sense to reply to you.

the other moderators and praveen may wish to add their opinions as well.

overall, you have, i think, addressed a wishlist which is indeed admirable. practically, it is yet to be seen, how this will work out.

for starters, will you be a volunteer moderator, if so offered the post by praveen?

 

[vijisesh]

History Repeats itself , If i can remember a few -- Nacchinarkiniyan ji, Chinthana ji ( Moderator not showing up for so much time now !- admired her way of handling things although i had too many conflicts on issues ) , Shri Ranganathan ji , were all actively contributing and are now not to be seen !
Many come and Go , it is upto them !
I know for sure that it becomes sort of curious for many of us to log on and check for responses each day after work and gain so much spiritual knowledge ( strategy of word warfare comes free with the bundled offer ) , we sort of get addicted to this forum !

It would be really difficult to implement " as is " , the logical list of shri Nara ji !

Everyone is so pre-occupied and very few volunteer , within which only a selected few have control over their nerves and are able to handle the poster's in a gentle manner - Hats off to Shri kunjuppu ji / Shri KRS , Shri Silverfox in conducting their role of the moderator , effectively !

Ok now for the quote of the day , Ithuvum kadantha pogum !

 

[Nara]

for starters, will you be a volunteer moderator, if so offered the post by praveen?

No, at least not right now.

The pool of moderators must have trust and respect for each other. At this moment I need to recuse myself on this count. May be another time ...

I am a little surprised that a person dedicated to customer service is suggesting voting by the feet. I have thought about this option myself a few times. But I feel, as an ex-brahmin, I must grin and bear it, and push back old die-hard ideas on behalf of progressives. May be I am trying to carry a burden that is not mine, but well, I may change my mind if push comes to shove.

If you are serious about better administration please do keep this thought going. Right now the red-ink edits seem completely arbitrary and capricious.

Cheers!

 

[Nara]

Dear Kunjuppu, one more thing, would you please address the following that I wrote earlier:

Now I am told I would have been KICKED out long ago. Is this polite or humor or polite humor? I am ready to be kicked out, make my day. I wish to engage in serious debate with occasional banter (especially with you that I enjoy). But crass comments such as "kicking out" really makes me feel unwelcome. How come crude comments like this are not moderated? The knife is only for us mere mortals?​

With greater authority comes greater responsibility, wouldn't you agree? Is this the way to exercise greater responsibility?

regards

 

[happyhindu]

Dear all,

There are so many practical things to do (like Sri RV sir who is opening a school that will offer some free seats to needy TBs which is highly commendable and deserving of the greatest of all appreciation). Hopefully, there will be involvement from others in such pursuits, and hope there will also be collective efforts. Let us not be disengaged from each other just based on a few discussions.

It is natural for each of us to express things from our heart, as we feel, and therefore give our opinions a touch of our emotional side. However, let us not come to the point of hurt and no-return based on a few discussions.

In any discussion there will be pros and cons and each person will express his/her own side as each feels. In matters of faith, it gets really tricky to handle, since no form of rationalism or logic can work for those who have that faith.

In this age, there are more frauds in the business of religion than many of us lay folk can imagine. And faith has become a fragile thing indeed. Given the scenario, blessed (probably) are those who are able to stick on to their faith, no matter what they come by. Let us accept that for every critic there will be an adherant who will remain steadfast in his faith under any circumstance. Isn't that what faith is all about? So let us try to not hurt those adherants, unless they are out to do some harm or defraud people.

In a forum, diverse opinions are the backbone. But lets pray (and work in the direction) that diverse opinions do not break our backbone, that is, unity. It wud behoove all participants here, if each of us allowed things to go that way.

There are very many topics to choose from, from serious discussions to info-exchange to timepass banter. It is not possible for all of us to write the fun way that Shri Kunjuppu Ji does. But we can certainly try to keep certain discussions light hearted, esp in some touchy topics.

Let us forget bygones, and look forward to the better side of things that a forum participation can bring.

I have a very wholehearted appreciation for the moderation here. Probably those who have joined in recently had not come come across things as they were earlier.

Best wishes.

 

[praveen]

Dear all,

There are so many practical things to do (like Sri RV sir who is opening a school that will offer some free seats to needy TBs which is highly commendable and deserving of the greatest of all appreciation). Hopefully, there will be involvement from others in such pursuits, and hope there will also be collective efforts. Let us not be disengaged from each other just based on a few discussions.

It is natural for each of us to express things from our heart, as we feel, and therefore give our opinions a touch of our emotional side. However, let us not come to the point of hurt and no-return based on a few discussions.

In any discussion there will be pros and cons and each person will express his/her own side as each feels. In matters of faith, it gets really tricky to handle, since no form of rationalism or logic can work for those who have that faith.

In this age, there are more frauds in the business of religion than many of us lay folk can imagine. And faith has become a fragile thing indeed. Given the scenario, blessed (probably) are those who are able to stick on to their faith, no matter what they come by. Let us accept that for every critic there will be an adherant who will remain steadfast in his faith under any circumstance. Isn't that what faith is all about? So let us try to not hurt those adherants, unless they are out to do some harm or defraud people.

In a forum, diverse opinions are the backbone. But lets pray (and work in the direction) that diverse opinions do not break our backbone, that is, unity. It wud behoove all participants here, if each of us allowed things to go that way.

There are very many topics to choose from, from serious discussions to info-exchange to timepass banter. It is not possible for all of us to write the fun way that Shri Kunjuppu Ji does. But we can certainly try to keep certain discussions light hearted, esp in some touchy topics.

Let us forget bygones, and look forward to the better side of things that a forum participation can bring.

I have a very wholehearted appreciation for the moderation here. Probably those who have joined in recently had not come come across things as they were earlier.

Best wishes.

Very well said HH I am glad to see this brought up.
As i keep saying, it is difficult to please all, but we try... Maybe thats what is causing the issue. I do not know.
Each of us have our own views and ideas that at some point of time, it is inevitable they would clash. But thats ok.
Try not to pick on issues, instead help us move forward.
Over time, we can sort it out all.
Current moderation team is highly exceptional and very good . It's a pity we do not have that many volunteers to ease things.

As HH said, enough has been said about moderation before and enough is enough.

Let's carry on with wat we want to do and not halt the progress by going back all over again...

 

[KRS]

Dear Sri Venkataramani Ji,

I called you yesterday personally and talked to you, after you posted a message that you are quitting the Forum. I thought we had a clear understanding on how to proceed as you agreed to me deleting your post. I told you that the reason for the delay in me applying the moderation to this thread and told you the reasons for the moderation. I restored even the two URLs that I consider as offensive, because you told me that you would act in a way to diffuse the situation.

I came away with the feeling that you understood the reasons. But, alas, to my disappointment, it seems to be not so. I even said that I can apologize for not giving you the opportunity to edit/terminate the thread, but you said that that was not necessary, because I am your Senior at National College, Trichy. I did not apologize because of that. But now, it seems that our conversation was one sided.

It is not just your prerogative to be hurt. I am hurt also. I want this community to be united and it seems to me that we are ready to jump ship on any count - sectarian differences, lifestyle differences, philosophical differences, ego differences and what not!

These were your words earlier on this very same thread: "My only request is, let the freedom of expression in this forum, is not misused by few to criticise our own community"

Now these words came after someone said something about the Mahatma. You even threatened to quit the Forum at that time, because this person compared Bharathiar and Gandhi Ji and spoke highly of the Mahakavi at the expense of the Mahatma.

You on a different thread did not speak well about the Kanchi Periaval and when I edited some of your words and explained how that would hurt our efforts towards unity, to your credit you acqueised. There have been other moderation on your postings, with which you had no issues.

So what has changed?

Sri Sai Baba is a very established luminary followed by a large amount of people from our community, even though he does not come from our community. Yes, there are controversies, but none have been conclusively proven.

And to lump him with these other so called 'fake' Gurus is not correct. Not because I think that he is a 'Guru'. But because, millions of our own people think so. Our culture says 'Matha, Pitha Guru Deivam'. How can we then question that without hurting the sentiments of scores of our own brothers and sisters who follow him? Does this not put a very large dent in our unity efforts?

Gandhi Ji is a political figure open to criticism. Other 'Gurus' like 'Kalki' do not have such a huge following within our community as Sri Sai Baba. Even there, I said that if enough people complain, we will reconsider.

We give free range to all sorts of opinions, even talking about Shastras, Rituals, Caste etc., that may be viewed by some as hurting their sentiments. The difference is this - again - it is 'Matha, Pitha, Guru Deivam'. This goes in to the core of our beings and this is why we do not allow different attacks/insinuations about other sects of our own - like Iyers questioning the philosophy of Iyengars and vice versa - because at the end that would question the very bond between the Bhakthas and their Gurus, which is a sacred bond. No amount of 'logic' will break these bonds and if one tries, the result will be non-unity.

This is the main reason for my moderation on your postings. I can apologize and I do for the way it 'showed you up', but my motive was not that. I wanted to make sure that the followers of Sri Sai Baba in our community (by the way, I do not follow him), do not get hurt and switch off.

Please also understand that not everyone in our community would be willing to argue for an opposite view as Sri Anandb Ji did, and the usual response is to turn off as a person who did, who deleted his/her own post of anguish (which you could not see).

At the same time I have let your postings to stand, as I think that your initial thesis about 'fake' swamis is valid. But for you this does not seem to be 'enough'.

Again, I repeat that you are a valued member of this Forum. And your reaction is hurtful, not only to me personally but to the community.

Regards,
KRS

 

[anandb]

Brilliantly put by Happy Hinduji and Shri. KRS. Thanks.

 

[KRS]

Dear Srimathi HH Ji,

It is no secret that I am an admirer of you.

Thank you for your posting above.

By the way, please let the world know how I have 'moderated' your postings, including deleting a couple of them, lest people think that I play favourites!

Regards,
KRS