From a Moderator's Viewpoint

[RVR]

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*“I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" --Voltaire

Moderators - I have full faith in the above statement and I would like to see that it is followed completely in our forum.

“Now I am told I would have been KICKED out long ago. Is this polite or humor or polite humor? I am ready to be kicked out, make my day. I wish to engage in serious debate with occasional banter (especially with you that I enjoy). But crass comments such as "kicking out" really makes me feel unwelcome. How come crude comments like this are not moderated? The knife is only for us mere – Prof Nara”

I am not in agreement with Prof Naraji's views on many subjects but I would like to defend him to the fullest extent that he should be allowed to express his views freely and frankly in these forums. I don't want harsh words used against him by the moderators.

“ Sai Baba has clearly mentioned before that*no one need to defend Him. -Renukakarthikeyan”

“Dear Sowbhagyavathi Renukakarthikeyan,

Beautiful sentiment, eloquently expressed. - KRS”

When you have so much faith in the above Godman and the above statement, why do you delete his name alone from all the postings on the thread `Spiritual Frauds'. The name is not deleted when Ms.Renukakarthikeyan made a favourable comment but all negative comments are deleted.

As I already mentioned in my postings yesterday, I am not fond of exposing any particular Godman. I want to expose all the Godmen and their frauds in the name of our religion. My intentions are very clear – save atleast as many members as possible from the clutches of these type of Godmen.

I have listened to EVR's speeches in my younger days. I earnestly feel he has done a good job in awakening people. I have read books by rationalists including Dr.Abraham Kovoor. I have highest regards for their good work. It has not affected my faith in the Hindu religion. On the contrary, it has helped me refining my thinking for further reform process of our religion.

Lot of members in of our forum located in India phoned up, sent sms & emails to me not to leave the forum. None of them objected to my writings about `spiritual fraud' thread. I asked them whether you are follower of the particular `Godman'. They said they are not. Majority of our members in Tamilnadu are not followers of the particular `Godman'. (I am again and again using the term particular Godman instead of actual name because through click of a button, the name will be removed).

Making a general statement that majority of the members are offended is not correct. People in India, probably except Karnataka and Andhra are not followers of this particular Godman in large numbers. Thanks to EVR movement no Godman except `Bangaru Adigal' are able to grow in Tamilnadu. After EVR's death, majority NB community wanted a Guru for themselves and `Bangaru Adigal' filled the gap. Kerala supports Mata Amritanda Mayee mostly. Some members of our community in Western India follow Shiridi. Only some of our members outside India may follow this particular Godman. In my relative circle outside India there are no followers of this Godman.

Both Kunjuppu ji and KRS ji have declared that they are not followers of this Godman. Senior members Happy Hindu has openly acknowledged that my arguments are valid(the moderators have deleted the discussions).

I don't know Silverfoxji's view on this. Only quite a few people opposed my views which is welcome. I was debating for three days continuously, but my posting were removed suddenly. Even that particular Godman's name is removed from the entire thread. I am totally handicapped and cannot move further. This morning I am surprised that even the discussion are shifted to this forum. If Blind faith on a particular Godman can create so much havoc, the only option left to me is to withdraw which I have done.

Since lot of other members wants me to continue, I am willing to do, subject to the following:-

1.I shall continue to support poor Tbs in health and education field. I was able to help Shri Rajesh Iyer for his father`s surgical operation and I thank this forum very much. I shall continue to do my service subject to my limitations. I shall continue to watch such requests in our forum regularly.

2.Happy Hinduji mentioned about my school project. I am already associated with a school 50 km north of Chennai in a Tsunami affected area where children belonging to all religions of fishermen community are studying. I have posted the same in this forum

http://www.tamilbrahmins.com/sponso...da-vidyalaya-andal-mantapam-pazhaverkadu.html

I am doing whatever possible service to the above school.

My batchmates of National College Trichy (Sri KRS ji is our senior) are planning to open a school and place is yet to be decided whether it is Chennai or Coimbatore. I shall keep you informed of the developments and we shall definitely give free education to poor TB community boys to the possible extent.

3.I shall continue to watch postings on ancient Tamil Bakthi literature, astrology and heritage related articles in our forum.

4.After the last few days incidents, I have decided to continue my work on exposure of spiritual frauds more vigorously. I will expose all the Godmen irrespective of his standing in the market place. If this forum is not willing to give me space, I shall do it elsewhere. Thanks to some of our members and moderators for increasing my thirst in this particular area. I earnestly feel that it is my duty to expose the spiritual frauds more vigorously to save innocent people.

Let the forum continue in whatever way it wants. It was there before I joined, it is there right now and I am sure it will be there in future also.

Let me limit my participation only to the first three and if the mindset of the administrators changes, let me have a rethink on the fourth item.

If at all I have to leave this forum once for all, it is purely due to the attachment of some members and administrators for a particular Godman.(Attachment is the root cause of all the problems -
Gouthama Buddha.)

I have no special attachment to my own Gurus – Kanchi Acharyas . Including me several of his followers have criticised them in these forums and red ink was not used by the moderators except few warnings.

All the best.

 

[drsundaram]

I am too not happy with the way the readings and postings of Spiritual Frauds are knocked off suddenly from Forum. I participated in leads of Kalki so also others. Why such topics were maintained. Why partiality to one, now ? There will be mixed views/ opinions about each set. That does not mean one can not give vent using his/her freedom of expression. But of course such expressions should have clear validation and not reported by obscure sources. Yet, Others have equal right to defend, too. We brahmins are known for ages for Tharka vividham and healthy basis. Moderators are excellent few and they know to remain unbiassed . Then it is surprising why there is a deviation in the recent subject under ref. If revealing about Godmen is not good according to guidelines then why one are two should be exempt. If my observations are erraneous I would like to be pointed out, please.

 

[[email protected]]

to RV sir, what happend to you , for the past 15 days I am not visiting to the forum regularly due to some construction work at my Satsang centre and I am dovoting time for that, Your posting spritiual Frauds is a good topic and you also advised me not to mention any community name. I having good connections with that particular community and from them only I undersatand the Frauds. Thank you very much for your advise and dont loose heart. with regards s.r.k.

 

[DURGADASAN]

Dear RV sir,

The thread you started here is to awake the people and certianly it is not with the intention of hurting other's feelings. Thanks a lot and lot for enlightening us.

Pranams

 

[kunjuppu]

i think it is time for all of us to move on.

otherwise it is the அரச்சமாவு situation, i think.

basically, it is good for the forum, i think, that moderators are kept on their toes.

also, please remember, for someone like me, i have only limited time and energy to spare on the forum.

i do not enjoy high maintenance in terms of topics or members, where constant monitoring is warranted for one reason or the other.

i think, it would be nice, if the members feel to be part of the forum family, and ensure that they 'give' sufficiently to nourish the quality of the discussion, and not necessarily the volume or the discord.

i am hinting at some self moderation efforts from the members themselves, so as to minimize, the 'us and them' chasm.

to that extent, let us all remember, that we are humans. perfection, to many of us is a desirable goal, but the reality is that it is also a perpetual moving target.

also, i think, while no topic should ideally be taboo, it is the delivery that counts.

a topic of utmost distaste, can be elegantly discussed, without hurting not only one's senses, i think, but also enriching one's viewpoint and levels of tolerance.

that is something, that i think, that we all have to work towards. i feel that we are not there as yet, but at some point, it will become self evident by the postings themselves.

till then some limitation as to the topics may be warranted. hopefully such restrictions are accepted in good grace by the membership at large.

delivery is the key. i repeat.

long ago, i too, for one, have been a firebrand, with a rather abusive arsenal guaranteed to inflame even the coldest of icebergs in the antartica. believe me.

over some self stirring introspection, i learned, not to give up my values, but to learn to present them better. it involved a little extra work, and definitely not related to mastery of english. it meant the mastery of demons of anger and indignation, and perhaps a large dose of ego.

it never hurts to say sorry. i think, the first sorry is the loudest and the boldest. those that follow, are followers, though no less sincere, still do not have the benefit of the vanguard.

it is my biggest source of joy, that many of my erstwhile antagonists, while still may disagree with my views, do not disagree (i think) with me as a person. maybe some of them even have come to like me

THAT is the key to communication, especially, if we want to elevate the levels of this forum to enviable heights.

thank you and everyone come back in peace.

 

[Nara]

Hi all,

Greetings!

With controversial topics there is an urge to sweep that ugly stuff under the rug and move on, but IMHO, that does not solve the problem. If Kalki Bhagavan is fair game why the one whose name cannot be mentioned is out of bounds. If the moderators wish to make this forum as open as possible this is one of questions they must answer.

The root problem is the members are treated as children, and that is too bad. The very fact that you need an internet connection to log into this forum shows that the members have a level of education and social standing that they must be expected to show decent level of openness to criticism. My request is for every topic to be discussed with decency and civility, there is no need for moderators to suo moto bring down the blade that bleeds.

Anyway, I have a suggestion, this is the third time, first time it was ignored, the second time it was dismissed with cursory answers, the third time perhaps is the charm (just a cheap shot K, you were gracious in your answers).

Start a new category like, "Spiritual Godmen - Good, Bad, and Ugly" or some such title. Put a warning that all godmen will be discussed and enter at your own risk. Just a thought...​

Cheers!

 

[praveen]

I have been a spectator watching this thread and interacting privately...

But i guess enough has been said about from all sides and i have no intention to let this continue.

What has been said and done is past. happened is happened. Discussing the same would only cause more friction amongst the people involved.

In my opinion, it is simply waste of time and waste of resources. Whether you agree or disagree, is something that i am not going to fret over.

I am closing this thread now and anything that is going to started on this will be deleted without any explanation.

While this forum has been liberal and have allowed (various sensitive) discussions to happen without much interference, moderators do not have to explain each and every action. What happens and how decisions are taken is not something that has to be shared with all. period.

Anyway, I have a suggestion, this is the third time, first time it was ignored, the second time it was dismissed with cursory answers, the third time perhaps is the charm (just a cheap shot K, you were gracious in your answers).

Start a new category like, "Spiritual Godmen - Good, Bad, and Ugly" or some such title. Put a warning that all godmen will be discussed and enter at your own risk. Just a thought...
​

I am a bit busy with other things, but this is something that is on the agenda and hopefully you might have your wish. I cannot give you a timeframe but i expect to have it up soon.

 

[kunjuppu]

Dear Kunjuppu, one more thing, would you please address the following that I wrote earlier:

Now I am told I would have been KICKED out long ago. Is this polite or humor or polite humor? I am ready to be kicked out, make my day. I wish to engage in serious debate with occasional banter (especially with you that I enjoy). But crass comments such as "kicking out" really makes me feel unwelcome. How come crude comments like this are not moderated? The knife is only for us mere mortals?
​

With greater authority comes greater responsibility, wouldn't you agree? Is this the way to exercise greater responsibility?

regards

nara,

i have been asked by praveen to bring a closure from my viewpoint on this topic.

or perhaps, to round up the stray pieces of straw floating around from effects of those whirlwind posts.

or maybe to answer your last query, which might not quite have been encompassed in my previous ditty.

re your note above, i agree with you 100% with your sentiments.

i am unable to offer an explanation of the said quotes or the post. just that. unable. and do not wish to dwell further on this.

i would have to disappoint you, on one another front though.

ie i do not wish to 'make your day' by 'k*****g you out' of this forum.

hope this is ok with you.

re your suggestion re godmen, praveen has already addressed that.

all in all, personally, i think, we have to move on. enough has ben said already.

we all need to reconnect at a different level.

 

[KRS]

Lots of out of context information has been posted and a lot of challenges made without any foundation. So, dear Prof. Nara, let me address you directly to answer your queries/comments about my postings as Sri Kunjuppu Ji asked me to answer them.

You have said: "With controversial topics there is an urge to sweep that ugly stuff under the rug and move on, but IMHO, that does not solve the problem"

This is my philosophy as well. So here it goes.

1. You have said: "Now I am told I would have been KICKED out long ago. Is this polite or humor or polite humor? I am ready to be kicked out, make my day. I wish to engage in serious debate with occasional banter (especially with you that I enjoy). But crass comments such as "kicking out" really makes me feel unwelcome. How come crude comments like this are not moderated? The knife is only for us mere mortals?"
Crass and crude comment? Now let me exactly quoie what I said and set the context.
I said: "If the moderation in this Forum does not protect against hurting the sentiments of a large group of folks and at the same time allow for free speech, you would have been kicked out of here long time ago."
Now, let us look at the context. All through this thread, you remained silent without any posting and posted right after I have moderated the thread. Then what you did? You mocked the moderation by using the red color to delete Sri Sai Baba's name from Srimathi HH Ji's quote. And then you said in this Forum only protects certain Godmen, implying that the moderation was done to protect someone specifically. You then sneakily went and deleted not only your mocking comments, but my moderating comments as well. Any correct behaviour here would have been to allow this stand for all to see and judge for themselves. Then you selectively use the word 'kicked out' without any context and use it to tell folks that I am saying that you would be kicked out! Professor, now come on, is this a correct behaviour?

Who is crude and crass here? You have deliberately posted this (which I have since moderated), without caring to read and understand what I have said and challenged that we protect only specific folks here. So, my answer was that, without the rules for proper moderation here, you sir, with views such as that Brahmins should give up their castes (which is directly against the stated Forum objective that this Forum is there to promote the welfare of the Tamil Brahmins, would have been kicked out in any other Forum without such protection afforded to you. 'Kicked out' is not a crude word. It meand 'thrown out', 'not permitted to remain'. I suspect you know this and you have deliberately used this to raise a strawman.

So, to summarize: You were moderated for your mocking of moderation and questioning the fairness of the moderation. So, in defense of the moderation, I showed you that you being allowed to remain in this Forum (even against the status Objective of this Forum) and use an expression to twist my words and take it out of context to somehow say that I am kicking you out of this Forum!

2. You have said "Right now the red-ink edits seem completely arbitrary and capricious".
This I completely do not understand. It is very easy to throw around words. I challenge you to specifically substantiate these words. For a person who hangs on to words out of context and who gets self righteous about 'being attacked in an uncivilized way', I expect you to fully explain this. But I suspect you will not be able to do precisely that.

Now, I have wondered why you fish in troubled waters and create all these distractions about moderation. Then, bingo, I have found what I have suspected so long, in your own words:
"But I feel, as an ex-brahmin, I must grin and bear it, and push back old die-hard ideas on behalf of progressives. May be I am trying to carry a burden that is not mine, but well, I may change my mind if push comes to shove."

This is exactly the reason for all the charade. One has to demonize a moderator who is standing in the way towards 'progressive ideas', by whatever means to acheive an end. A man who is ready to inflict wounds on others is crying out that he is being wounded! What an irony!

Regards,
KRS

This thread is closed. But if Prof. Nara wants to respond, I can reopen this just for his comments - KRS.

 

[KRS]

Dear Sri Venkataramani Ji,

I have to respond to two items in your posting above to clarify:

1. Regarding my statement to Prof. Nara: I have never said that he would be 'kicked out'. Please read the context and meaning of my words, which I have further explained in my posting above. We do not 'capriciously and arbitrarily' throw out people from this Forum. Only when members repeatedly against all the warnings do not desist from certain behaviour, they are banned. Despite some stands that he has taken against even the existence of our community, we have welcomed his postings. And that has not changed.

2. I did not just delete Sri Sai Baba's name alone. His name was removed in places where the information pertaining to him may be hurtful to his devotees.

Also, since you have not done so per my request, I am removing both the BBC and Yputube references from the original thread.

Regards,
KRS

 

[kunjuppu]

re godse

folks,

i just deleted two posts about nathuram godse posted by narayanee.

someone named krsna had similar posts a few weeks ago, and i treated them accordingly.

it is with great reluctance, but with absolute surety i do this.

there are holy of holies. in the context of this forum, of an independent india defined as of august 15, 1947 and furthermore re gandhi's assassination jan 30, 1950, i consider him sacrosanct.

narayanee, one more, deragatory post agains gandhi, and you are banished from here.

please don't make my day.

thank you.