God Omnipotent. Really?

[Nara]

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Dear Dr. Jambu,

I am a contrarian in this forum. I routinely take positions that many here don't agree with. But, in the most part the discussions have been civil and respectful. Even my most vigorous opponents like Anand and Saptha have always treated me with decency.

There have also been lot of provocations from a few people. I try to not react to them, not because such comments do not affect me, I am not Data of Star Trek who is devoid of emotions. I do have emotions and if I let it loose I can spar with the worst here word for word. But I try my best to keep my emotions in check and not react. Once in a while I just can't take it any more, and now is one such occasion.

Dr., you have a habit of saying nasty things with gay abandon and then offer some half-hearted apology. In your Ravana thread you characterized a post as intellectual vomit, and then apologized for it. In this very thread you characterized my views as "concern for poor women is sham முதலை கண்ணீ்ர்" only to apologize if it hurt me and removed the tamil phrase and left the "sham" part in.

Here are some more of your nuggets:

There will always be வக்ரம்.

விதண்டா வாதம் . missing the main issue

I know there are insensitive INTELLECTUALS

absolutely nil emotion! (ஜடம்)

விழலுக்கு நீர் பாய்ச்சி ஒய்ந்து போநோம் Or is it செவிடன் காதில் சங்கா ?

Why sir, it is not enough to agree to disagree? Why is it not enough for you to say you are right and I am wrong? Why do you want me also to say I am wrong or else, my view is விதண்டா வாதம், வக்ரம், ஜடம் and other choice put downs?

I repeatedly offered to let the matter go, but you and Iyest won't let it go!

All this was alright, I pocketed them, no problem.

But the following pushed me over the edge and I decided to take a stand.

Only humans have hatred for the fetus.

Respecting a woman's right and ability to make the right decision for her is the same as hatred for fetus? This is a completely disingenuous and dishonest caricature of my views.

Have you no shame, sir?

Thank you ....

 

[renuka]

Dear Dr Jambu and Nara anna...

this song is for both of you to kiss and make up....lets ABORT all our differences in opinion ...

YouTube - Barney - I Love You

 

[Raghy]

Respectable participants of this thread,

In my opinion, this is a sorry looking thread. Sow.Renu and Sri.Nara stood on different planes and put forward their learned opinios. I did not take part in this thread until now....as a third person, I unthreaded the opinions and loked at them seperately; they all make perfect sense.

Sri.jambunathar, Sow. Renuka,

Sri.Nara was voicing his observations, not opinions about the rights of rape victims and incest victims. In such situations, use of contraceptions are out of question; the woman did not plan to get raped, so, could not go prepared for that. மத்தளத்திற்கு இரண்டு பக்கமும் அடி என்றபடி, she becomes a victim; then again she becomes a victim by carrying the pregnancy and rearing up a child...adding an encumberance (Sorry about the selection of vocabulary. But it is the truth). Reports of Gang rape victims and incest victims are more prevalent in the western countries. So, this is a social issue in such countries. That was Sri.Nara's side of argument. He was desperate when he suggested 'morning after pill'. By the way, catholicism opposes any kind of abortion; it may not be relevant to this forum, but, very relevant where Sri.Nara lives and he was addressing such social injustices. By the way, sister Sow.Renuka, 'zina' has nothing to do with this situation. (As per sharia, once the baby weaned, the mother would be stoned to death in the case of zina).

When Sri.Nara quoted Col.Jessop, he did not mean any of the members here; he meant about the socity on the whole. Sri.Nara said that the socity can not handle the truth. Sri. Nara is very gentle; I am not. I would say 'the socity can not identify, leave alone handle the truth even when the truth bites the backside of the society'. When I say socity, I mean all the eastern, western sicities.
For the members who did not have the opportunity, here is 'you can't handle the truth' by Col.Jessop...
YouTube - You Can't Handle The Truth - from 'A Few Good Men'

ஒரே பாட்டை எல்லோரும் ஏக காலத்தில் வேறு வேறு ராகத்தில் பாடினீர்கள்...

Cheers!

 

[nachi naga]

i am stunned,to say the least,about last five posts.tnj,somehow your thread has been hacked,so god is omnipotent in his omnipresence here.

 

[Raghy]

Now that the members have seen Col.Jessop.... Santiagos of the society are thrashed along by the decision makers of the society...it does not matter whether we are talking about a religious or irreligious socity for that matter...I can think of examples to back both the cases. Sri.Nara was voicing his opinion is support of the Santiagos...Santiagos condemned by the authority sitting on high horses.

In most instances, victims would be charged with something...it is always the case...for silencing the victims, the bullies of the socity make rules or edicts or fatwas or policies, with which a victim would be charged.....

 

[Raghy]

Respectable members,

I said:-

In most instances, victims would be charged with something...it is always the case...for silencing the victims, the bullies of the socity make rules or edicts or fatwas or policies, with which a victim would be charged.....

With reference to the victim being charged...in the link provided, Col.Jessop is charged; but, I did not mean that. Santiago was a victim who was charged and murdered in the training camp in that story..that's what I meant when I said victims are charged by the Col.Jessops of the society....seldom they are brought to justce.

Now think about a rape victim in our own socity...would anyone marry her? She got raped by an animal/animals; punished by the socity too.

 

[Raghy]

My dearest Renu, let me share a beautiful song of my most favorite singar, Bhagavathar.........click just here!

Hope you are having as much fun with your life as I do....(I hope you know what I mean .

Sri.Nara,

I feel cheated! On Friday night, I was thinking about this song...I was planning to post it in the forum on the week-end...you beat me to it by a whisker!

Anyway, allow me to post the next song I had in my mind...by Ghantasala...

YouTube - Aha Inba Nilavinile

Cheers!

 

[Nara]

Dear Dr Jambu and Nara anna...

this song is for both of you to kiss and make up.

Renu, this is indeed a strange suggestion, one that resembles a justice system that requires a rape victim to marry her rapist!!!

I have no use for shameless individuals devoid of basic decency...

 

[renuka]

Renu, this is indeed a strange suggestion, one that resembles a justice system that requires a rape victim to marry her rapist!!!

I have no use for shameless individuals devoid of basic decency...

Dear Nara anna,

I just felt a little bad that I had indirectly started this whole debate and went out of context in this thread and becos of this 2 respectable individuals here are not seeing eye to eye here..
Thats why I put this song..I dont want anyone to get angry with each other here...

 

[Raghy]

Respected members,

I said :-

With reference to the victim being charged...in the link provided, Col.Jessop is charged; but, I did not mean that. Santiago was a victim who was charged and murdered in the training camp in that story..that's what I meant when I said victims are charged by the Col.Jessops of the society....seldom they are brought to justce.

It seems I am talking to myself....I did not see any response from the members....Maybe the members think, that a Col.Jessop in an old Hollywood movie had nothing to do with our society. It is true. For promoting an awakening, one should address the socity in question. Here is someone talks about our Indian society....something happens right under own noses; we seldom pay attention. (Some of the members would have seen this...I am posting it again)..

Sunitha Krishnan fights sex slavery | Video on TED.com

Cheers!

 

[Nara]

.... becos of this 2 respectable individuals here are not seeing eye to eye here...

Dear Renu, I am not angry, but I do object to this equivalency you are implying -- I rather be disrespected than be made equal to uncivil people.

Cheers!

 

[Nara]

... For promoting an awakening, one should address the socity in question.

Raghy, the TED clip reminded me of the movie Mahanadhi. There was also another movie, I don't remember the name, a girl gets left in a brothel, run by a transgendered madam, by her own relatives and a taxi driver rescues her. Both movies were very powerful.

The moralizing society is Sunita's biggest problem -- cruel irony.

Cheers!

 

[C RAVI]

Raghy, the TED clip reminded me of the movie Mahanadhi. There was also another movie, I don't remember the name, a girl gets left in a brothel, run by a transgendered madam, by her own relatives and a taxi driver rescues her. Both movies were very powerful.

The moralizing society is Sunita's biggest problem -- cruel irony.

Cheers!

Sri Nara ji,

The movies you have highlighted is apt to the TED program linked here by Sri Raghy ji. The one is Mahanadhi and the other one is Appu..Both the movie are poignant. These are the movies that can never be forgotten

Sri Raghy ji,

Thank you for this link. Its utter disgusting to find some animals in human society, probably given a form of human by God erroneously.

 

[Nara]

... These are the movies that can never be forgotten

Yes Ravi, you are absolutely correct, I can never forget these movies. I am not a great fan of Kamalahasan, in my opinion as an actor he is over-rated, but Mahanadhi is really a good movie.

The TED talk by Sunitha points to a core problem -- the low social and cultural status of women in our society. Without a trace of irony many people love to point to the female icons celebrated and worshiped, such as Sita, Savithri, Kannagi, etc. as proof of valuing women. But the reality is, when you put women on a pedestal like this, you are setting them up to fail. They can never succeed in living up to the standards of these mythical women.

Even the venerable Thiruvalluvar contributes to this intolerable idolization of perfect womanhood -- பெய்யனப் பெய்யும் மழை -- that a simple and sensible suggestion to protect oneself from STD lands poor Kushbu with loads of trouble with the moral police force who are ever ready to throw their slippers at her. Is it any wonder she ultimately sought the protection of DMK membership?

Now, look at the standards for men. Practically every Hindu god is with at least two wives. Thiruvalluvar also goes easy on men. While the women are supposed to தற்காத்து தற்கொண்டான் பேணி, but the ideal men is one who does not covet wife of another. That is it, don't look at your neighbor's wife -- பிறன் மனை நோக்கா பேராண்மை. Not just ஆண்மை, just for not going behind somebody else's wife you get to be a man of பேராண்மை. Want to have many wives, go for it, but avoid another man's wife.

We talk about DMK supremo having multiple wives, which I don't condone. But what about venerable Brahmins? For example, the late Seema Bhattar, doyen of Kanchi Varadaraja temple openly had two wives, and children with both. Can you imagine any woman doing the same?

Can anyone seriously say that female feticide/infanticide has nothing to do with this kind of social mores?

The social and cultural power men have over women is pernicious on another count. These "values" are ingrained into the female psyche so much so, that much of the moral policing is done by women themselves. Any behavior that strays outside the straight and narrow, rumor mill will start, reputation ruined, may even end in life taken. She had it coming, must have used protection.

In the decadent west women are not setup to fail with such impossibly male-oriented standards as espoused by Ramayana and Thirukkural alike, women are not put on a pedestal, and also, a rape victim is considered a victim deserving of love and sympathy, not damaged goods. An outgoing girl is a just a gregarious girl, not a morally deranged person.

Cheers!