Gothram - alumni

[Raji Ram]

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Smt. Raji Ram,

This is to formally thank you for the guidance you gave. Thank you. It was just that I used that knowledge to insert an image only later and then I forgot to thank you.

Respected Sangom Sir,

I thought you might have missed that post of mine and hence wanted to get an acknowledgement!

No need to thank formally. Glad to note that the 'tutorial' was useful to you!

Regards,
Raji Ram

 

[Raji Ram]

Almost all the famous temples have become commercial. I wrote a Tamil write-up (sorry Sri. Prasad!)

about the Dharshan at Tirupathi Balaji temple and here it is:

பாலாஜி படும் பாடு!

குறிப்பு: நகைச்சுவை உணர்வுடன் படிக்க வேண்டுகிறேன்!

***********************************************

திருப்பதிக்கு வந்த ஒரு மிகப் பெரும் செல்வந்தர்,
திருப்தியான தரிசனம் பெற, மிகவும் விழைந்தார்!

முதல் விஜயம் என்பதால், ஒன்றும் புரியாது,
முதல் வினாவாக அதிகாரியை வினவினார்,

‘இது என்ன இத்தனை வரிசைகள் தரிசனத்திற்கு
வித வித வளைவுகளாகச் செல்கின்றனவே?’

‘ஒரு வரிசை தரும தரிசனம் செய்ய; இவர்கள்
இரு நாட்களாகும் திருமலையானைக் காண!

இன்னொன்று, நூறு ரூபாய் வரிசை; இதில் சென்று
முன்னின்று இறையை, நாளை காணலாம் நன்று!

மற்றொன்றில், ஐநூறு கொடுத்தவர்கள்; இவர்கள்
சற்று விரைவாக, இன்று இரவிலே தரிசிப்பார்கள்!

வேறொன்று, ஆயிரம் அளித்தவர்களின் வரிசை;
ஏதொரு தடையுமின்றி, ஆறு மணியில் காணலாம்!’

இவ்வாறே அடுக்கடுக்காய்ச் செய்திகள் வர, சொன்னார்
இவ்வாறு, ‘என்னிடம் உள்ளது, ரூபாய் பத்துக் கோடி!’

‘பத்துக் கோடியா?’ என வியந்தவர் விளம்பினார்,
‘பத்து நொடியில் வருவார், உங்களிடம் பாலாஜி!'

ray: . . . :hail:

 

[Brahin]

Since I saw about Jaats here,I would like to add that in Jaat community for marriage to take place both paternal gotra and maternal gotra of the bride must be different from the paternal gotra and maternal gotra of the groom.

 

[Raji Ram]

In a brahmin marriage, the bride changes to the groom's gOthram from her father's gOthram.

But even though the sisters and cousin sisters in a family have different gOthrams, they can not

have marriage alliance within their sons and daughters.

 

[nachi naga]

gothram is a marker for y chromosome of a rishi.in modern world.

saga gothram is avoided as its tantamount to incest.though in my family my cousin married the girl he loved who happened to be same gothram.their son so far looks and behaves ok.dunno how he will be in future.

gurukulams started this gothrams,imho.so guru vandanam is done when we practice gothram based marriages.its a tradition and faith.

 

[renuka]

Lucky I dont follow any sort of system in marriage as was free to marry anyone as long his DNA didnt match mine.

I remember in college there were a Kannada Brahmin boy and Kannada brahmin girl who were in love since 1st year of college only to find out in final year that they were the same Gotra and parents didnt allow the marriage.

Sad..cos they made such a cute pair.

 

[renuka]

In a brahmin marriage, the bride changes to the groom's gOthram from her father's gOthram.

But even though the sisters and cousin sisters in a family have different gOthrams, they can not

have marriage alliance within their sons and daughters.

Do you think becos there is a possibility that 2 sisters might have ended up marrying guys with the same gotra?

 

[sundachu]

Gotra is based on consanguineous marriages, marriage among relatives causing the birth of deformed children. Now it has lost its relavance owing to the population explosion.Therefore gotra neednot be taken seriouly.
sundararajan




Download: www.eType1.com/e3.php?E002d1

 

[tbs]

hi
nice article in www.keraliyers.com

Brahmin Women - Becoming Confident, Assertive, Empowered

regards
tbs

 

[Raji Ram]

Do you think becos there is a possibility that 2 sisters might have ended up marrying guys with the same gotra?

This also happens sometimes, Renu... My oldest sister-in-law, and youngest sister-in-law married the oldest brother

and youngest brother of a family, respectively! But even if the sisters marry guys belonging to different gothras, there

will not be marriage alliance between the families. That is what I meant.

But in some other religion, chithi / periamma's daughters are sought after by the boys!

 

[prasad1]

hi
nice article in www.keraliyers.com

Brahmin Women - Becoming Confident, Assertive, Empowered

regards
tbs

Great research, I did not steal the idea from this site (honest - LOL) even Sangom thought my idea was original.
Your first link does not work.

 

[kunjuppu]

hi
nice article in www.keraliyers.com

Brahmin Women - Becoming Confident, Assertive, Empowered

regards
tbs

tbs, a very common sense article. what is amazing, this guy is from kalpathy, where one would expect folks to be more traditional.

tbs, i am sometimes, amazed how silly we all look, when we fight here, over the simplest things. this is much like a storm in a teapot.

whether we like it or not, there are changes happening there in the outside world. these are beyond the control of any one human to put a stop and turn back the clock.

i think, the key, is each one of us, faces this phenomenon of rapid change, in different circumstances, and we each react to it, to what is best for us.

once upon a time, educating our girls was a big issue - the fear being that they might not be able to find husbands. yes, believe it or not, boys in the 1950s, did not want educated girls.

only in the 60s and onwards, when the advantages of dual income came to be understood, the concept was slowly accepted, till in the 70s, middle class boys, wanted only girls with jobs.

nowadays, from the looks of it, the boy will marry any girl willing to marry him

and there are apparently thousands, without any prospect of marriage to tambram girls. such is life. we can resolve it in many ways than one, if we are willing to experiment and take risks. that is my take on this attached email of yours.

best wishes.

 

[ganukanchi]

Dear Prasad1 and Nara why don't you look at this in a different angle. gothram and sagothram concept help build a social fabric of brothers and sisters among families, apart from blood relatives. Further, we believe that a departed soul do not reach heaven unless the requisite karmas were performed after the death of a person.
Such karmas should be done by son of the deceased if not by the brother of the deceased or by the son of deceased person's brother. If a person died without having this type of social set up, then sagotram comes into play.
The shastra has it that a person from sagotram could perform the last rites as `karunya karma' to help the departed soul rest in peace / heaven.
Last word if you do not believe in all these please do not try to spoil our social set up because a true brahmin would never and ever try to humiliate others.

 

[ganukanchi]

Dear Renuka, it is true they might not have ended up marrying guys with same gotra but by restricting the marriage between their wards they help their kids to foster brother-sister relationship. because we the indians only have a social set up where father's brothers are called as periyappa or chithappa and mother's sisters are called as periyamma or chithi.
such being the case, periyappa or chithappa's son or daughter or for that matter with regard to mothers' sisters, their wards will be a brother or sister. A good relationship is it not.

 

[kunjuppu]

Dear Renuka, it is true they might not have ended up marrying guys with same gotra but by restricting the marriage between their wards they help their kids to foster brother-sister relationship. because we the indians only have a social set up where father's brothers are called as periyappa or chithappa and mother's sisters are called as periyamma or chithi.
such being the case, periyappa or chithappa's son or daughter or for that matter with regard to mothers' sisters, their wards will be a brother or sister. A good relationship is it not.

ganu,

we can have the same arguements for athai or mama son daughter. it is the same sibling children situation, except it is a sister brother one as opposed to the same gender.

here for mama athai son daughter in many cases we even encourage matrimony. what happened to the brother sister relationship here?

i think we need to use our common sense when it comes to marriage within immediate bloodlines.

to ignore science and other factualities presented stubbornly in the name of tradition, i think, is to invite disaster.

 

[renuka]

Dear Renuka, it is true they might not have ended up marrying guys with same gotra but by restricting the marriage between their wards they help their kids to foster brother-sister relationship. because we the indians only have a social set up where father's brothers are called as periyappa or chithappa and mother's sisters are called as periyamma or chithi.
such being the case, periyappa or chithappa's son or daughter or for that matter with regard to mothers' sisters, their wards will be a brother or sister. A good relationship is it not.

Dear Ganu,

I get what you mean..but for me all types of cousins my father's brothers children,my father's sisters children, my mum's brothers children and my mum's sister's children I consider my brothers and sisters cos we have DNA link.

 

[kunjuppu]

..Last word if you do not believe in all these please do not try to spoil our social set up because a true brahmin would never and ever try to humiliate others.

ganu,

kindly explain your definition of 'true brahmin' please.

how much of anusharanam should be practised for a true brahmin. in your opinion, can this vary from generation to generation ie we need not perform all the prescriptions of our ancestors, but claim true brahminhood regardless. if so, who decides it?

thank you.

 

[prasad1]

Like Reneka said, in the north the cousin relationship extends both ways i.e. from father's side s well as mother's side. So marrying cousins is not allowed. In Tamil culture it has been allowed for economic reason IMO.

But going back to my original post, I still think Gothra has no business in deciding marriage. I dont even mind a blood testing, or DNA mapping to eliminate inbreeding. That is talking it to extreme, sufficient to say that if parties are separated by 3 generations, it should be enough.

 

[sangom]

Dear Prasad1 and Nara why don't you look at this in a different angle. gothram and sagothram concept help build a social fabric of brothers and sisters among families, apart from blood relatives. Further, we believe that a departed soul do not reach heaven unless the requisite karmas were performed after the death of a person.
Such karmas should be done by son of the deceased if not by the brother of the deceased or by the son of deceased person's brother. If a person died without having this type of social set up, then sagotram comes into play.
The shastra has it that a person from sagotram could perform the last rites as `karunya karma' to help the departed soul rest in peace / heaven.
Last word if you do not believe in all these please do not try to spoil our social set up because a true brahmin would never and ever try to humiliate others.

Shri Ganukanchi,

What I have heard and understood from elders is that unless the "putra" - punnaama narakaat traayati iti putrah (one who rescues a person from the naraka called 'puth') - does the last rites and all the rest of it till completion of the aabdeekam at the end of the first year, the dying jeeva or soul will go to that naraka and nowhere else.

That being the doubtless position of the saastras, the rest of the people like brother, sagotrajan etc., are mere socially accepted norms to dispose of the physical body lest it does not become a civic hazard.

 

[sarang]

A true brahmin is one who who is born in a brahmin family (till 'mores' are established to admit others into brahmin varna) and is not a brahmin dveshi.

ganu,

kindly explain your definition of 'true brahmin' please.

thank you.

 

[prasad1]

Sarag sir, Your post#45.
I think that is very limited view. Why bring this up?
Birth alone is not the criteria. A man born in Brahman family is Tamasic in nature he is no Brahmin. Similarly a person born in other caste, but is satvic is a brahmin.
You are completely negating Krishna, in gita says 'guṇakarmavibhāgaśaḥ'.
I am disappointed.

 

[kunjuppu]

A true brahmin is one who who is born in a brahmin family (till 'mores' are established to admit others into brahmin varna) and is not a brahmin dveshi.

sarang,

who is a brahmin dveshi? you need to be detailed here, as i think, every member here in one way or the other, is a brahmin dveshi including yourself, for violating the norms of your forefathers.

where do we draw the line? and who draws it. you? if it is you, what gives you the right?

thank you.

 

[prasad1]

:focus:

 

[sarang]

But Krishna and Rama never claimed they are brahmins! They consider themselves as 'khashtriyas', I believe.

One qualification is birth. Have you come across anyone from other varnas who is willing to call himself a brahmin and willing to accept brahminical customs and traditions (1 to 100%) to become one? I am talking about devout and practising hindus.

having said this, I will accept whoever wants to become a brahmin. Problem is he has to select the particular sect he likes and respects (through a guru or acharya) and join it.

How to translate this 'guṇakarmavibhāgaśaḥ' in practice? There is no other mechanism now. Perhaps, there was a system in the past, but majority were proud of their birth varna-kula-jati to even consider switching.

Sarag sir, Your post#45.
I think that is very limited view. Why bring this up?
Birth alone is not the criteria. A man born in Brahman family is Tamasic in nature he is no Brahmin. Similarly a person born in other caste, but is satvic is a brahmin.
You are completely negating Krishna, in gita says 'guṇakarmavibhāgaśaḥ'.
I am disappointed.

 

[sarang]

dveshah - hate, dislike, abhorrence, repugnance, distaste; enmity, hostility, malignity.

If one is not a communist but hates communism, he is called anti-commie.
If one is a communist, still hates communism, what is he called? Dissenter! But a dissenter does not aim to destroy communism.

I still hold him a true brahmin, who follows his family-brahminical traditions to some extent, accepts his inability to practise all he would like to practice.

In simple terms, we follow whatever can be followed in today's environment and laws and approved by our acharyas/gurus.

sarang,

who is a brahmin dveshi? you need to be detailed here, as i think, every member here in one way or the other, is a brahmin dveshi including yourself, for violating the norms of your forefathers.

where do we draw the line? and who draws it. you? if it is you, what gives you the right?

thank you.