Grounding in holistic knowledge and Original solutions for Practical Problems

[Vaagmi]

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Sri Sangom's words in quotes:

gradually, it becomes clear to you that the Absolute Truth has nothing to do with the God concept of religions, that it is an "inanimate" (if that word is appropriate) and ever-present force which pervades this entire universe (and therefore, you and I as well), etc.

The stupid student from the last bench, waking up, asks " Sir, don't you think this is another God concept? And don't you think that you have missed the point that the "animate" forms of God are all just a convenience? And if it is a force that pervades me, what is this "me"?

Subsequently, you will come to a stage when you will be able to understand and appreciate all those unwanted baggages, just as a person who has successfully solved a maze and is perched at a height and is watching others who are floundering in their efforts to get to the end-point of the maze!

The student further asks, "Sir, When I have solved the maze my mind keeps troubling me asking who designed such an easy maze. I am unable to find an answer to that question. Others are all still stuck in the maze, ok. But I am perched at the vantage height and I do not want to look at those who are still struggling. I want to meet that soul who designed the maze and give a bit of my mind. Could you please solve this new maze too?"

 

[renuka]

Hi Mule Maami,

Being an "auto"biography I know you will approach me for a prologue. Being a kindred mule soul I have kept one ready along with an epilogue too. In India you get one free if you take one. LOL. I will allow you to steal a look at the prologue if you want. Let me know. The epi part will come when you complete your biography. I know I am buying time because mules are notorious for their laziness and the tendency to eat up whatever is used to write on, whether it is autobiography or a medical prescription. LOL.

I have already started writing some today..almost done with the 1st chapter.

I will write it..one day I might think of printing it.

Lets see.

 

[Vaagmi]

I have already started writing some today..almost done with the 1st chapter.

I will write it..one day I might think of printing it.

Lets see.

I am waiting to give you the prologue and do a peer review. That will be a privilege. Thank you.

 

[tks]

[/FONT]

AMEN! (though I would word it differently )



My understanding: Yes for some point and No to others

Yes Part : Truth is masked by a lot of incorrect learning. One never learns to 'unlearn' all the wrong notions. It is in describing this point some months ago in another thread when I received a lot of Mannangatti directed at me (Truly Laughing Out Loud when I think about that thread)

Maturity (I do not like the vague word 'spiritual') begins when all religions end in a person's internal thinking (not necessarily their external actions which I will amplify in the 'No part' ).

ALL Religions (including all that are considered to fall under the name of Hinduism) cater to people's insecurity and their need to fulfill their desires. The desires also include desire to reserve a place in heaven (Christians), paradise (Islam), Vaikuntam OR Siva Lokam (Hinduism) after their death. For all these people Spirituality = 'Doing' Religious traditions. There is nothing wrong with this approach. It is just that it is a manifestation of what may be called Karpanya Dhosha.

There are many others who are happily chasing material things - money, power, men/women as pleasure objects, drinks, drugs etc. And they may share their loot with God of the religions.

Unless these notions are destroyed by right knowledge it is not possible to uncover truth



The "No part" may appear controversial due to choice of some Varna words I have - let me post that in another message when I have some time

Here is the counter point to assert why giving up all rituals will not lead to removal of ultimate ignorance.

Giving up all duties is for a legitimate and recognized lifestyle (for a Sannyasi) but the effort required is immense for them to make progress. Most of us lead 'life of doing our duties' and hence my focus on this post is about 'our' lifestyles only.

There are few assertions I want to make first in a Q&A style. The focus is not about me and if anyone is bothered about the style it is best not to read further. I can hear a few saying "who the hell are you to give answers as if you are all knowing" .. I am not, but Q&A style works the best to communicate these points which comprise some aspects of my understanding.

1. Edison famously had stated "Genius: one percent inspiration and 99 percent perspiration" . Let me modify this statement for this topic of 'enlightenment' for the lack of a better word. Enlightenment results from 99.99% preparation and 0.01% of self-knowledge.

2. What is this 0.01% part?
Answer: All Upanishads, B.Gita, Brahma Sutra, Moksha Parva (mahabharatha), Tattva Bodha , Yoga Vasishtam (in Ramayana) etc etc all teach one idea only and the entire teaching can be summarized in few lines. This idea of accumulating information from many such sources is actually an impediment to realizing the true knowledge especially when one lacks the preparation

3.What is this 99.99% part?

Answer: The preparation part consists of two equally important and interrelated aspects. One is preparation of our capacity to learn (I will use the word mind to refer to our capacity to learn) and the other is developing skills to unlearn all wrong notions we have picked up todate. One has to be totally committed to wanting to know the truth rather than wanting to prove that own sense of ego is right.

Though there are many that practice Science like a religion, by and large true scientists are totally open to reexamining the basic assumptions all the time. Major breakthrough happened in the past in Physics and happening now only because of this integrity to seek the truth among true scientists.

The well established QED (Quantum Electrodynamics) theory which predicted certain experimental results to very high precision of 10 to 12 digits may get reexamined if today's experiments underway require scientists to do so.

During Sri Sankara days, people from various schools of thoughts could come together and the PurvaPaksha style debates were possible only due to highest standards of integrity to uncover the truth by everyone present.

In today's world and certainly in this forum, this attitude to seek truth at any cost is missing since need to feed the ego positions always take higher priority.

4. If 0.01% can be summarized in few lines why not say that here and now?

Answer: OK, I tend to be wordy which is my weakness. There are many perspectives from which the same idea can be expressed. I will attempt to share one such perspective.

The ultimate knowledge is actually realizing the truth of 'who I am' (fancy word is Atma) and words cannot be used to describe this I because the words can only describe anything that we objectify. While the existence of 'I' needs no proof, true nature of 'I" can never be known by the mind which is dependent on 'I' for its existence .

5. That is confusing! If words and mind cannot be used then how can this knowledge be gained?

Answer: Teaching methods available in Upanishads ONLY can provide this knowledge and it employs not just words but other directives to be practiced. It is teaching and not preaching! tThis is a big distinction from any other scriptures in the world which requires faith as a starting point. Here faith (blind) is not required but Shraddha to expend effort is required

6. If it is about I , who is gaining this knowledge?

Answer: This true 'I' is taken for a 'I thought' in the mind which is also loosely translated as ego. When the teaching takes place, the knowledge removes this ego leaving the true I with its true nature shining

7. So what is the method taught to learn this?

Answer: Three words - Srvanam (hearing the teaching immersed in Upanishads by a qualified teacher( and I offer my prayers to my teachers when I say this ), Mananam ( relating the teaching to our personal experience in our mind) and Nididhyasanam. The last part is key as asserted by Sri Sangom in one of the posts in this thread.

While Sravanam and Mananam is about deliberate action for growth, the last part Nididhyasanam is not action but about realizing the 'being who I am'. Meditation is about 'being who I am' and not about action. Chapter 6 of B.Gita and Mandukya Upanishad focuses its teaching on this last part namely Nididhyasanam. Without this there can not be growth (see answer to Question 5 above)

8. If the above comprise all that is to be learnt (which includes methods to learn) and makes up only 0.01%, what is all this 99.99% preparation required? We are exposed to ideas of rebirth, various Varna etc - and none of this is mentioned !

Answer: 99.99% comment applies to preparing the mind because the entire life experience of this universe is revealed to us only in our mind. Mind is abstract but a tool. Wrong notions prevent us from knowing the truth. Anyone regardless of how they are born can achieve this without changing their profession.

9. How can someone born as a Shudra get this knowledge? A person born in this varna does not even get a thread (Upanayanam)? Are these people just doomed? How can our teaching be called so if it leaves out a large portions of our population?

Answer: Relax! There are lots of mistaken notion here and many continue to do harmful practices to others with mistaken notions. The word Shudra has many meanings. One describes a group of people in certain professions. In this post I shared my notes from Rajiv Malhotra's writing about this Varna .

Our Rishis viewed the life form as comprised of three Gunas - Tamasic ('lazy'), Rajasic ('passionate') and Sattvic (not Tamasic or Rajasic) and all three Gunas are needed for living. Sleeping is essential and is Tamasic. People who are predominantly Tamasic in their outlook are also called by the word Shudra and such people can get prepared for learning in a boot camp like situation where they are woken up to action by people who are Sattvic and Rajasic. The Rajasic mindset has to be conquered by Sattvic activities.

10. What about the birth based classification as Shudras which is unfair because they are exploited?

Yes, in today's society birth based Brahmanas or Shudras does not make any sense and can be unfairly exploited (which must be rejected by anyone aspiring this knowledge). There are no entitlements of any kind that makes sense in today's world. We all do work of all Varnas at various points in life. Furthermore we are ALL shudras at birth and hence do not have this preparation to learn this self-knowledge. Most of us - almost all of us - stay as Shudras (I include myself in this) from this vantage point.

11. That is preposterous! You mean to say this forum should be called Tamil Shudras ??

Short answer is Yes - since almost everyone is so by the definition of our qualities. I know some here will take offense. Let me connect this back to the main topic of preparation

12. So what is the connection?

I need to use a well known verse for help and hopefully complete the connection about rituals and self knowledge

The verse is:

Atreya smriti

"janmanajayate shudrah
samskarad dvijaucyate
vedapathi bhavedviprah
brahma janatibrahmanah

Translation:
By birth,every man & woman is a Shudra . Through various types of disciplines (samskaras), he/she becomes a dwija (twice born). Through the studies of scriptures, he/she becomes a vipra (or a scholar). Through realization of brahmajnana, he/she becomes a brahmana.

The above applies to man and woman and transgender people as well!

The discipline one learns through a set of provan and prescribed activities get one to train the mind. Notwithstanding how we are born, doing our duties with focus and sincerity is the start of getting that training of our mind.

There are Nithya Karmas and Naimithika Karmas when performed with sincerity have yielded results for our ancestors and many people. These Karmas are to be done without expectations of any result and are a form of Yoga in preparation of our mind for realizing Nididhyasana later.

In today's world anyone can do Sandhyavandana - it is a form of Yoga, Pranayama and training rolled into one. Not doing Nitya Karma is a sure way to stay ignorant (unless one has chosen a Sannyasi lifestyle which requires different focus). In other words there are no easy way out.

Most cannot take the rigor required to do all these prescribed Karmas and that too without expectations. There may be some good results along the waybut the performer has to do these without fail. Shraddham is also a Nitya Karma.

Doing these Karmas only makes someone take the first step. The next step is to do with full understanding and turning all these action into a Yoga. One may be called Viprah at this stage but they are still a Shudra.

In the last step all focus on the rituals have to be transcended but only internally! There is still a need to do all the Nitya Karmas externally in our actions. But we do not identify these as our actions. We become merely a witness to the action taking place with the tools of our body and mind. It is at this stage that one is prepared to learn via Sravanam, Mananam and realize Nididhyasamam

Om Tat Sat!