Hindu homecoming? Case of India religious conversions rings false.

[BRAHMACHARI]

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...Organized conversion ....

that is 'ghar vaapsi'.

 

[BRAHMACHARI]

..... those that plan conversion in a an organized way believe they are the only one who has God by their side.

they exist as bjp, vhp, bajrang dal, hindu munnani etc.

 

[vgane]

that is 'ghar vaapsi'.

That is not Ghar Vaaasi..It is Yesu ungalai azhaikiraar along with a neat sum!

 

[vgane]

Is Amma a supporter of conversions...How did the Christians increase from 6% to 30% in TN?..Not sure how much is true??

 

[sarang]

Consolidation of Hindu vote bank to defeat secular sitting on the fence politicians and parties is the best way to democratically fight conversion, and interference by foreign agencies and powers. Minority reservation abolition is the first best step. Police and enforcing agencies must be trained to treat crime as a crime.

 

[auh]

...Conversions should be up to the individual. There should be no coerced conversion. If some one is paying you (i doubt the whole premise) Million dollar, anybody would do a Hemamalini type conversion. And then claim they converted back. There is no faith involved, it is economy, and stupidity.

I am not holding a cudgel to the head against individual freedom, but we cannot have a view that defies common sense and practicality. If on one hand, we deem re-conversions as "faithless" then by the same accord, the very same conversions (earlier) should have been also "faithless"; do we have an understanding here?

Re. the case of Hemamalini - are we not trampling on her individual rights, to do whatever she pleases, by commenting on her private life? I think it is not even related to the issue we are discussing here, viz., coerced (overt or covert) conversion. Please do not quote unrelated stuff to dilute the argument.

 

[prasad1]

Auhji,
You are from a different planet. I am definitely not from your world. Most Conversions are for convenience, so just because she is from TB group or your party do not elevate her convenience to any other level. She is a piblic figure that to a doyen of Hindu party she is a fair game. So please spare me the lecture. If your dirty laundry is being discussed and it is your fault that you are showing in public.

If someone converted from a religion to other, it is because they did not understand their own religion. Every religion is diverse enough to accommodate any personal view one might have. Religious conversion are for appearances only.

Your defense of Hemamalini is it because of your relation, I am sorry for you. That is your problem and not mine. To stop lecturing.
I wish your post were as invisible as your signature, because they do not make any sense.

 

[CHANDRU1849]

i am not going to contend or argue saying i am correct. you may be correct. i only wonder how conversion is a threat. i am convinced about my faith. why should i care if my neighbour converts to another religion. even if i remain the only brahmin on earth, i will remain a brahmin (who lives by principles of eternal truth).

Sir,

First, Hinduism is not an organized Religion like Christianity and Islam.

Conversion is definitely a threat, if majority of people in a particular place embrace another religion, the culture and rituals attached to the religion before conversion will seize to exit. We have come across this in so many cases - Kanyakumari, Nagercoil etc.

are not brahmins who have lived for years in the usa remaining brahmins, holding on to brahmin rituals, traditions and culture? i read about a brahmin community in trinidad, who migrated from bengal during first quarter of 20th century, observing hindu traditions more diligently with austere severity, than indians in india. there are temples where every festival is celebrated with pomp, more than in india.

India is not like USA. Hindus, in general, and Brahmins, in particular, are not a major force in USA and there is no threat for Christians there. For every four years or eight years, Republican Party comes to power in USA,which has sizeable support from Christians.

Trinidad and Guyana are small countries in the West Indies.

what percentage of rss, bjp, bajrang dal, vhp know hinduism, hindu scriptures etc. how many of them can recite bagwad gita from memory completely. let alone entire bagwad gita. how many of them could quote at least one verse from the gita. are not all they trumpets about hindutva and as champions and watchdogs of hinduism hypocrisy?

Hinduism has so many branches. You cannot expect every Hindu must be aware of Bhagwad Gita. Like Hindi, Gita is also being given so much of prominence by some self proclaimed Hindu saviours.

 

[auh]

Auhji,
You are from a different planet. I am definitely not from your world. Most Conversions are for convenience, so just because she is from TB group or your party do not elevate her convenience to any other level. She is a piblic figure that to a doyen of Hindu party she is a fair game. So please spare me the lecture. If your dirty laundry is being discussed and it is your fault that you are showing in public.

If someone converted from a religion to other, it is because they did not understand their own religion. Every religion is diverse enough to accommodate any personal view one might have. Religious conversion are for appearances only.

Your defense of Hemamalini is it because of your relation, I am sorry for you. That is your problem and not mine. To stop lecturing.
I wish your post were as invisible as your signature, because they do not make any sense.

Sir, with due respect, I think you must be out of your mind to write a post such as the above, in reply to my earlier one.

I am not defending any individual; I was pointing out that we are discussing the issue of coerced conversion vis-a-vis re-conversion.

Plese do not twist my words to give a meaning where it is not intended to. I have said that I do not want to comment on the conversion of Hemamalini as it is not related to the topic on hand. You give a convoluted interpretation that I am defending her. Get well soon.

If you want to debate the conversion of Hemamalini, open a separate topic and do your usual cut & paste.

I do wish that my posts become invisible to intellectually challenged individuals so that they can continue merrily in their own delusions.

 

[sooriya]

respected members, i am a late entrant of this thread hence privileged to go through all the conversations which have may twists and turns at times straying away from the main discussion upto personal levels including broaching individualistic cases irrelevent to the topic.
1. one member had gone to the extent of initial creations questioning the creation of the first woman from the rib of God.further whether she was brahmin. such hardcore rationales would have restrained from entering the forum with the very name of brahmins' forum.
2.when you cll it is individual liberty to practice ay religion of choice where is the necessary for missionaries and islamic propogating forums funded locally and mostly from outside india.
3. one gentleman quoted that he had ot born during aurangazeeb era as if convertions are not being done now or in the near past to name a few like kayalpatnam, malappuram and coastal tamilnadu enmasse. Then there was no problem of any sort.
4.Even today at some part of india gullible poor people are brain washed through INDUCEMNT which is everyday affair.
5.Regarding the byhearting of Githa or quoting from. it had been wellsaid that we don't have only githa like bible or qouran repeatedly made to be practiced without questioning or even discussing the contents which are not permitted and here we are ar liberty to have bhashyas according to the sects.
6.So the people who are talking for their religion are fundamentalists or bjp/sangh affiliates-very funny inferences.
7. let them see the percentage of the muslims and christians how may folds they had icreased after independence is self-explanatory and they all demand benefits over majority people at the same time bullying the religious practices of them at the slightest like ganesh processions during ramzan etc.
8. the funniest part of quoting obama statement shows still they are following outsiders rather than indian leaders.
9. one friend earlier quoted that theses minorities are negligible forces in electoral results contradicted himself that modi's assurance was the outcome of delhi results.
10. here the history speaks itself that one religion had forced and bullied over the hindus on drawn swords at their necks whereas the other one had brainwashed and bribed for expansion in india.so let us not show that we are the secularists by dwindling our percentage and if people come back to their own religion let us welcome them back.

 

[BRAHMACHARI]

Is Amma a supporter of conversions...How did the Christians increase from 6% to 30% in TN?..Not sure how much is true??

Is this not the same lady who passed anti-conversion bill some years ago?

 

[a-TB]

they exist as bjp, vhp, bajrang dal, hindu munnani etc.

Why do you selectively talk about only some groups. If you are opposed to conversion by deception it should be across the board, otherwise it is hard to understand your agenda

 

[BRAHMACHARI]

.... it should be across the board, otherwise it is hard to understand your agenda

neither of the above is necessary sir.

dear a-tb sir, is this not an inherent problem within us? why are we always skeptical about agendas and why is it we are always interested in agendas than on the important matter here? i think we need to reform/evolve in this psyche/attitude sir. we would sure progress sir.

we are cribbing about someone being deceived into conversion while every one of us have converted in some form or the other sir. we are not being as integral as our forefathers were sir. they were diligent in observing rituals, they did sandhyavandhanam 3 times a day, performed every ritual with austere severity. but we have compromised on almost everything sir being deceived by the change in times and circumstances, being lured by american job, etc sir, are not we? my grandfather did sandhyavandhanam within the campus hostel when he studied in st. joseph's college, tiruchy, and that was before independence from british rule. but i hardly did in the usa while yet circumstances were very much favorable and none, not even my american flat-mates, would object.

are we not all 'aathule oru kaal, sethule oru kaal' case sir? and we cry foul about someone deceptively converting others. i think we must all introspect into ourselves and ask ourselves if we are justified in our claims, if we are being integral.

 

[BRAHMACHARI]

If you are opposed to conversion by deception .....

I am not opposed to conversion by whatever means sir. it is up to the individual and his/her conviction. a person disowns/leaves a faith and embraces another faith for the simple reason he/she either is not comfortable or does not like the initial faith and he/she is free to embrace another.

but what puzzles me is why should anyone be concerned/alarmed about another's conversion unless he/she is not convinced about his/her own faith. why not we mind our own business and let others mind their own business? 'aadu nanaigiradhe endru onai azhudhadham'.

 

[a-TB]

neither of the above is necessary sir.

dear a-tb sir, is this not an inherent problem within us? why are we always skeptical about agendas and why is it we are always interested in agendas than on the important matter here? i think we need to reform/evolve in this psyche/attitude sir. we would sure progress sir.

we are cribbing about someone being deceived into conversion while every one of us have converted in some form or the other sir. we are not being as integral as our forefathers were sir. they were diligent in observing rituals, they did sandhyavandhanam 3 times a day, performed every ritual with austere severity. but we have compromised on almost everything sir being deceived by the change in times and circumstances, being lured by american job, etc sir, are not we? my grandfather did sandhyavandhanam within the campus hostel when he studied in st. joseph's college, tiruchy, and that was before independence from british rule. but i hardly did in the usa while yet circumstances were very much favorable and none, not even my american flat-mates, would object.

are we not all 'aathule oru kaal, sethule oru kaal' case sir? and we cry foul about someone deceptively converting others. i think we must all introspect into ourselves and ask ourselves if we are justified in our claims, if we are being integral.

Who told you - observing rituals is only or key thing about following Hinduism?

It is a vast ocean of 'all encompassing' way of life. I do not do any ritual but I consider myself a Hindu.


When deception is involved, agenda becomes important - otherwise no one really gives a damn!

 

[a-TB]

I am not opposed to conversion by whatever means sir. it is up to the individual and his/her conviction. a person disowns/leaves a faith and embraces another faith for the simple reason he/she either is not comfortable or does not like the initial faith and he/she is free to embrace another.

but what puzzles me is why should anyone be concerned/alarmed about another's conversion unless he/she is not convinced about his/her own faith. why not we mind our own business and let others mind their own business? 'aadu nanaigiradhe endru onai azhudhadham'.

Concern is about deception, manipulation and deceit involved in the process.

 

[BRAHMACHARI]

Who told you - observing rituals is only or key thing about following Hinduism?

what else identifies a hindu distinctly as hindu sir?

It is a vast ocean of 'all encompassing' way of life. I do not do any ritual but I consider myself a Hindu.

sabaash sir!. then someone converting to christianity or islam is also a hindu. he/she is converting from hinduism to hinduism indeed. there need be no concern.

When deception is involved, agenda becomes important - otherwise no one really gives a damn!

did anyone attempt to deceive or lure or threaten you and me? as long as we cannot be and are not deceived, lured or threatened, where is deception sir?

 

[BRAHMACHARI]

Concern is about deception, manipulation and deceit involved in the process.

dear a-tb sir, you have been repeatedly using this term 'deception'.

why should you and i be concerned if an x deceives/coerces/lures/threatens a y as long as y is not our kith/kin/relative/friend, as long as you and i are convinced about our faith.

could you please corroborate your claims of deception with evidence sir? do you personally know any case/instance/individual who was actually deceived/lured/forced/coerced/threatened and converted from hinduism to other faiths?

 

[prasad1]

In a landmark judgment, the Supreme Court has ruled that if a person with dalit ancestry reconverts to Hinduism, he would get back his caste status and benefit of reservation.

"A person who is born to Christian parents who had converted to Christianity from Scheduled Caste Hindu can avail the benefit of caste certificate after his embracing Hinduism, subject to other qualifications," a bench of Justices Dipak Misra and V Gopala Gowda ruled on Thursday.

"There cannot be any soundness of logic that he cannot avail the similar benefit because his grandparents were converted and he was born to parents who were Christian," said Justice Misra, who authored the judgment for the bench.

Reconverted dalits must get quota benefits: SC - The Times of India

Now what does the VHP/RSS think?

 

[sarang]

Only hindus have been burdened with castes, SC and ST. The abrahamics are superior breeds and do not have or subscribe to nor their scriptures mention castes. So if it is caste based reservation, only hindus are eligible. Simple logic eludes some and make them ask rhetoric questions!

 

[BRAHMACHARI]

Only hindus have been burdened with castes, SC and ST. The abrahamics are superior breeds and do not have or subscribe to nor their scriptures mention castes. So if it is caste based reservation, only hindus are eligible. Simple logic eludes some and make them ask rhetoric questions!

when caste is a burden, why are we carrying it sir?

..the abrahamics are superior breeds..

if they are not, why are we looking unto them for outsourcing and our survival sir. why is it not vice versa, we outsourcing to them? dont we have the intelligence, wisdom, knowledge, skills, expertise and last but not the least, heart.

 

[vgane]

when caste is a burden, why are we carrying it sir?



if they are not, why are we looking unto them for outsourcing and our survival sir. why is it not vice versa, we outsourcing to them? dont we have the intelligence, wisdom, knowledge, skills, expertise and last but not the least, heart.

Dear Brahmachari,

I think you are a troll with ulterior motives in the forum....You are a Christian masquerading as a Brahmin in this site..You have shown your true colors..Please stop posting anti national statements in the garb of questioning or rationalizing

 

[sarang]

Thanks for stressing the obvious. Even if banned he/she will reenter under another name.

Dear Brahmachari,

I think you are a troll with ulterior motives in the forum....You are a Christian masquerading as a Brahmin in this site..You have shown your true colors..Please stop posting anti national statements in the garb of questioning or rationalizing

 

[prasad1]

I think Praveenji has taken care of the problem.

 

[vgane]

I think Praveenji has taken care of the problem.

Thanks Prasadji