How and why did mutts become commercialised? Their role in our future

[shreeramachandran]

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mutts are not meant for the benefits and living of the pontiffs. They are supposed to live austere life in an humble place teaching the devotees about the small values of life and the need for uplifting the brethren of community and not act like power brokers or swaying the political thoughts of the devotees or act as brokers for the transfer of government staff. As per your version, the mutts appear to be vending shops so that the purchaser can go to different shops for the best stuff for best price. PLease do not belittle the elevated status of the mutts. There was a report a couple of years ago about the detection of huge silver bars lying in the Puri mutt unaccounted and unattended. What the acharya to do with it after renouncing the world. Mutts cannot function as the conduits for enriching the lives of the relatives of the pontiff before renunciation.

 

[zebra16]

mutts are not meant for the benefits and living of the pontiffs. They are supposed to live austere life in an humble place teaching the devotees about the small values of life and the need for uplifting the brethren of community and not act like power brokers or swaying the political thoughts of the devotees or act as brokers for the transfer of government staff. As per your version, the mutts appear to be vending shops so that the purchaser can go to different shops for the best stuff for best price. PLease do not belittle the elevated status of the mutts. There was a report a couple of years ago about the detection of huge silver bars lying in the Puri mutt unaccounted and unattended. What the acharya to do with it after renouncing the world. Mutts cannot function as the conduits for enriching the lives of the relatives of the pontiff before renunciation.

You seem to be knowing a lot about Mutts. For starters, have you got a copy of "Charter of Functions", or "Statement of objectives" etc. of the Mutts?

I may assume anything. I may think it is the bounden duty of the Mutt head or the Mutt officials to produce the "God" before me in person on my demand, just because I have taken the trouble of going to the Mutt by travelling 5 hours. But my assumption does not mean that there is an enforceable obligation against the Mutt.

In one line you say "Please do not belittle the elevated status of the mutts" but you continue with some report of silver bars lying in the Puri mutt unaccounted. Do you mean the Puri Mutt is elevated because of "silver bars" or despite it?

By the way are you a regular visitor to the Mutt or an occasional one and what is your contribution to the Mutt?

 

[kameshratnam]

How many jagadgurus really have time to answer questions from us? Adi Sankara established mutts for the propagation of dharma and sadly many of them do not do it now. Many feel irritated when they are questioned regarding dharma.

 

[prasad1]

mutts are not meant for the benefits and living of the pontiffs. They are supposed to live austere life in an humble place teaching the devotees about the small values of life and the need for uplifting the brethren of community and not act like power brokers or swaying the political thoughts of the devotees or act as brokers for the transfer of government staff. As per your version, the mutts appear to be vending shops so that the purchaser can go to different shops for the best stuff for best price. PLease do not belittle the elevated status of the mutts. There was a report a couple of years ago about the detection of huge silver bars lying in the Puri mutt unaccounted and unattended. What the acharya to do with it after renouncing the world. Mutts cannot function as the conduits for enriching the lives of the relatives of the pontiff before renunciation.

Sorry you do not like reality, but that is the truth.
Like Mr. Zebra said you have no idea about the nature or the agenda of a mutt. Mutts are independent organizations, You did not create it, so you have no right to expect them to work for your satisfaction. Sorry to disappoint you.

 

[shreeramachandran]

Like AA and MOU of corporates which are only in name sake in many cases, the statements and objectives are there in book form. the gentleman has forgotten "Matha Pitha, guru deivam". We consider the Guru as embodiment of god and when he is revered as god, there is no need for Him to produce God. Further I need not contribute for the Mutt. Enough wealth have been created by the past kings and they have assigned lands and villages for the survival of the mutts. The un accounting and unutilising the bars is only leaving bad taste. Let me not open the pandora's box any further in this regard

best regards for the readers

 

[shreeramachandran]

thanks gentleman. Let it work only for the benefit welfare and happiness of the mutt and its coterie. The first acharya who established the mutt meant it to work for the uplift of the society and not for the benefit of the chief occupants. If mutts are independent, is it meant it is for the family benefits? Such great wealth? The mutts have strayed from the main purpose for which they were established.

 

[ozone]

Sorry you do not like reality, but that is the truth.
.

By that statement. are you reiterating that 'mutts are meant for the benefits and living of the pontiffs'.
Your earlier recommendation advising people not satisfied with the functioning of a mutt to change mutt suggests that your understanding and expectation of a Mutt is lopsided.
While sri shreeramachandran may have gone overboard in blaming the mutt and expecting lot and not feeling obliged to contribute, I think there is some element of truth in how some of the mutts have prioritised their activities differently from what Gurus such as Shankaracharya established them.
To state that you did not create it and so you are not entitled to expect anything from it, to put it very mildly is impolite.

 

[zebra16]

Like AA and MOU of corporates which are only in name sake in many cases, the statements and objectives are there in book form.

Does not matter even if it be only in book form. If such exists, please let me know from where I can source it.

the gentleman has forgotten "Matha Pitha, guru deivam". We consider the Guru as embodiment of god and when he is revered as god, there is no need for Him to produce God.

But in the previous post you were questioning the "so called God" as to how he can enjoy cricket match on TV when the ideal bhaktha has arrived and was demanding darshanam and theertham (a la Bhrigu)

Further I need not contribute for the Mutt. Enough wealth have been created by the past kings and they have assigned lands and villages for the survival of the mutts.

That is what most persons says when questioned about contributing to the mutt's activities. You see, for one, contribution need not be in the form of money alone. For second, you seem to be unaware of acquisition and re-distribution of land soon after the independence. Most of the land have been compulsorily acquired and re-distributed to landless labourers. Please read some history.

 

[kameshratnam]

Sorry you do not like reality, but that is the truth.
Like Mr. Zebra said you have no idea about the nature or the agenda of a mutt. Mutts are independent organizations, You did not create it, so you have no right to expect them to work for your satisfaction. Sorry to disappoint you.

I did not create the mutt but adi sankarcharya - my 1st guru created it and not even the current pontiffs created the mutt. The mutts were created for dharma and sadly they have swayed away from many of the original activities.

You did not create it, so you have no right to expect them to work for your satisfaction.

BEAUTIFUL ANALYSIS: NO WONDER NITHAYANANDAs and other fake godmen keep coming into this world.

 

[zebra16]

the gentleman has forgotten "Matha Pitha, guru deivam".

For all your repeat invocation of Adi Sankara in this thread, please read the Sankara BhAshyA on taittiriya upaniSad on the mantra "mAtru devo Bhava; pitr devO Bhava; Acharya devo Bhava" and compare your comments about the pontiff in this thread with what he (Adi Sankara) has taught.

 

[ozone]

You did not create it, so you have no right to expect them to work for your satisfaction.

Sorry, you appear to be overboard on your criticism. Mutts need not stand to every individuals criticism or scrutiny. They are not there to receive you and pamper you just when you arrive there unannounced.
You appear to state that you know better how you must be treated or what should be in their minds?
It is better that you understand and align with the larger purpose and if you feel there are some issues or incidents that need their attention and intervention, there are means to reach them.

BEAUTIFUL ANALYSIS: NO WONDER NITHAYANANDAs and other fake godmen keep coming into this world.

I think these incidences better fit your imaginations and expectations than your analysis. On the contrary, not succumbing to fancies and expectations of every individual like you is what has made some of these long standing mutts to still stay tall.

 

[shreeramachandran]

Well, the devotee comes only to pay his respect humbly to seek blessings. There are appointed times at which the darshan is given. O.K. that is correct. Acharya cannot be a 24 hour worker. But in that darshan hour, without distinction he must bless, comfort he feelings of those break down out of their feelings. A four hour wait for a few minutes, does it justify. We devotees do not expect any prasadam from the hands of Acharya. Want blessings and comforting words. Like thirumala, if there is any entry fee,well we will pay and avail the blessings since after all the contribution goes only to the mutt.

 

[sarang]

Mutts were established to protect, and propagate their unique and exclusive tradition. primary aim is to protect the sampradaya. Because, some mutts (not all) get lots of money as donations, they diversify to other ares - including setting up of medical and engineering and management colleges - and thus get into avoidable money-property related deals.

 

[prasad1]

Ozoneji,
To complain is a birthright, you do not even need bill of rights for that.
Who am I to say that you should stop complaining? Every complain is not resolved.
If you want to change an organisation, you can change it from inside, instead of destroying it from outside.

I am a visitor (not even an invited guest) to a mutt, I do not like some practice there. Is my complaining going to make a difference? I was not trying to be impolite, but may be sometimes it should remain unsaid.

 

[prasad1]

In india there is very little concern for the customer in any business. We might preach "athithi devo Bhava" but not really mean it. That theme pervades every walk of our life. Those who did not go out of their town may not realize it, but the moment you are out of your zone you are made to feel it. So mutts are not an exception.

Poor customer service: India loses Rs 11,640 cr/yr - Rediff.com Business
Business in India [ Images ] lose up to Rs 11,640 crore (Rs 116.4 billion) in revenue every year because of poor service as customers abandon transactions or end relationships when companies do not meet their expectations, a survey says."India loses Rs 11,640 crore ($2.46 billion) because of poor customer service every year in revenue because of inability to meet customer expectations," a survey conducted by Greenfield Online said.

 

[ozone]

Ozoneji,
I am a visitor (not even an invited guest) to a mutt, I do not like some practice there. Is my complaining going to make a difference? I was not trying to be impolite, but may be sometimes it should remain unsaid.

I wilfully agree to your right to complain
May be your thinking on mutt is different, perhaps led by your identifying with mutts like Pathanjali etc., and not with the types of Kanchi or Sringeri. Post #38 by Sri Sarang is what is likely in most TBs mind.

 

[shreeramachandran]

Gentlemen, In sankara's tradition womanhood is deified as Kamakya devi, Kamakshi, Sarada, lalithambika,etc., But in practice, we consider a widow as bad omen and this stigma is not applicable to a widower. I understand that the Dikshidars of Chidambaram still do Balya vivaham and if the boy dies early, the girl becomes a widow even before puberty. What sort of things are these? Did Adi sankara establish such practices? Do you find such things taught in vedas. Let us start respecting the womanhood as god since women are responsible for delivering quality citizens of future. If our community is to improve, there should be awakening against these. In every district headquarters, we must have centres of excellence to coach our children to score 98-100 percent marks, with excellent hands do impressive teaching. Nothing moves without money. Why not we have a move to generate a corpus fund, each family contributing initially Rs.500, followed by monthly subscription of Rs.100/-. We can include our brethren in overseas also to contribute their shares also. Already we have *******. It is easier to run an existing organisation instaed of starting one. Can I invite our esteemed elders to join me in this mahayagnam to take the community to its old glory.

best regards for readers

 

[prasad1]

Gentlemen, In sankara's tradition womanhood is deified as Kamakya devi, Kamakshi, Sarada, lalithambika,etc., But in practice, we consider a widow as bad omen and this stigma is not applicable to a widower. I understand that the Dikshidars of Chidambaram still do Balya vivaham and if the boy dies early, the girl becomes a widow even before puberty. What sort of things are these? Did Adi sankara establish such practices? Do you find such things taught in vedas. Let us start respecting the womanhood as god since women are responsible for delivering quality citizens of future. If our community is to improve, there should be awakening against these. In every district headquarters, we must have centres of excellence to coach our children to score 98-100 percent marks, with excellent hands do impressive teaching. Nothing moves without money. Why not we have a move to generate a corpus fund, each family contributing initially Rs.500, followed by monthly subscription of Rs.100/-. We can include our brethren in overseas also to contribute their shares also. Already we have *******. It is easier to run an existing organisation instaed of starting one. Can I invite our esteemed elders to join me in this mahayagnam to take the community to its old glory.

best regards for readers

Now that Ozoneji has given permission to complain, and Ramachandranji has codified it. I too have a complain.

A widow was refused pointedly by Kanchi seer service, I walked out to the embarrassment of my family. I have no desire to return there again. Yes we must change these organization.

 

[Brahmanyan]

The Pejawar Mutt - Udupi.

While we are discussing about Mutts, I am reminded of Shri Vishvesha Thirtha Swamiji of Pejawar Mutt, Udupi. He is a great Scholar and a reformer. I had the opportunity of meeting this frail looking Acharya a couple of times and I was struck by the humility and compassion shown by him while interacting with others.

Though he is heading a conservative Madhva Mutt, the Swamiji of Pejawar Mutt has shown remarkable boldness in expressing his radical reformist views, which he practices as well.
The following website gives a brief account of this great man.
www.vishveshavani.com/articles/guru-stuti/the-dynamic-saint/

Regards,
Brahmanyan,
Bangalore.

 

[suraju06]

Folks,

It is interesting to read all the posts here. May I sum up the ideas expressed briefly thus:

(1) Mutts and the pontiffs of these mutts need to change with times.

(2) The sishyas who visit the mutts to meet the Acharyas are treated according to their financial and social status.

(3) Acharyas treat people who come to the mutts following some archaic dharmashastra tenets. (like treatment of widows by some mutts)

(4) There are Acharyas belonging to some mutts who are simple and modern in their outlook while many others are not.

(5) We should start a MAHAYAGNAM of sorts to improve the lot of the members of our community. For this we should all contribute financially and create a corpus.

My humble thoughts:

1. Besides being wandering mendicants, the Acharyas are supposed to guide their sishyas in spiritual matters. Spiritual matters are such that they are all about the enduring truth - the true knowledge of the nature of the self, the nature of God and the nature of the relationship between the two. These truths do not change with time(they wont be truths if they change) and so the Acharyas need not change their perception/understanding about these. They need to understand first the truth thoroughly for themselves and then be available to teach and guide their sishyas on this knowledge alone. If the sishyas expect them to change with time, it will obviously be asking the acharyas to live with 'lesser relative truths' and not to remain acharyas any more. This naturally leads to the question-What shall we expect from the Acharyas? I think we should expect advice and guidance only in spiritual matters and not on social issues, politics, economics etc., The trouble is that we expect them to be masters in all these and so we expect their advice on these matters. Some of the Acharyas, because of the demand, have chosen to meander from the chosen and laid down path and have made a mess of the whole system of Acharya-sishya relationship itself. They are not equipped nor are they required to dabble in politics, social issues etc., They should restrict themselves to just spiritualism and guidance in that. This will relieve them from the day to day stream of visitors who are not seekers of spiritual guidance. This will give them the time to study the other major religions like Islam, Christianity, Judaism etc of the world and take a broader world view on spiritual matters. This is what our Acharyas of yore did. They did not know the Abrahamic religions in their time and so did not speak or write about them. But they certainly studied the Budhdhism and Jainism and Atheism of different hues and have contributed substantially to the huge wealth of literature on comparative religious philosophy in our country. Epistemology, metaphysics and Ontology are very advanced branches of science and our Acharyas should be left free to contribute to these branches of knowledge. I hear some of us saying that the Acharyas also live in the society and so should be bothered about what is happening to the society. Very true and that is the reason why they are willing to guide us in spiritual matters. They need not dive headlong into the society and struggle, sink or float with the ordinary sishyas taking all the hits that they take. If that were to happen then when the sishyas eventually come to them for spiritual guidance, they will not be able to offer them any thing because they would have been reduced to a bundle of contradictions, prejudices and opinions. All the tapas which they would have done to gain spiritual knowledge would not be available to them to offer to the sishyas, as the doubts and scars would stand in the way. So to conclude, what is needed is not the Acharyas to change but the sishyas and their expectations have to change. Practically how do we go about doing this? I will record my ideas about that in my next post. Please hold fire.

Cheers.

 

[shreeramachandran]

Very true, very true. Many feel that just seeing acharya will nullify all problems. Problems are born with us or created by ourselves and remedies must come from oneself. No one knows me better than myself. If i harbour evil thoughts, it is in my mind and no one else knows unless I reveal. The illness of a child, the mother or father cannot share except that they can take adequate measures to cure it but the pain of the illness has to be borne by the child only. Let us always remember
"no one can get us anything that we are not destined to and no one can prevent or block anything that we are entitled to". Let us always remember that in the dynamic world the ownership of anything gets always changed. If this awakening comes into the mind of ordinary mortals, the visit to the mutts and temples will be for to pay the respect, marvel at the splendid architecture our past kings patronised and also to wish "loga samstha sugino bavanthu". The society must get rid of certain practice like treating widows as bad omen, balya vivvaham etc., The children must be taught how to avoid bad friendship in this competitive world as well as respecting the elders and to engage in constructive thinking. For this parents must set examples to begin with. If you look into the money bags of mutts, you will find the currencies of early nineteen hundreds and copper coins which are at best only for museums and the money needs to be used for self help of avocation of widows, homes for the aged etc., We do not take away even our mortal coils. What is the use of possessing tonnes of money meant for social welfare. Let us respect womanhood who are responsible for the birth of gems and jewels of the country. will anyone join me or just keep chatting only. I need the support of our women folk for eradicating most of the problems ailing the society.