How will pariharams work when.....?

[kameshratnam]

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I am just wondering how pariharams will work?

I had been to a famous temple in chennai and i gave for archana. As the priest was telling my name and other details he cut it abruptly and started talking to someone ......So according to me no sankalpam was done...

I am more worried as to how bigger pariharams will work due to lack of SHRADHHA by the vadhyars who do it? How can we get the palan of the pariharams?


Already mantra chanting has become faster than the speed of nervous impulse..at this rate so many people do parihara poojas and we dont know which is the best temple or best kurukkal or vadhyar which/who does things in a proper manner?

 

[Soumya Ramasubramanian]

Totally agree with you...when i was in chinmaya school,i remember how the swamijis and swaminis and everyone used to emphasise on how each sloka should be chanted,the highs and the lows in one word and all those...Passing out from that school i was pretty happy about the fact that i know the sukthas and atharvasheersham and how to perform certain poojas....and then back home when i'd gone to temple for a pooja,i knew every word of the suktham the pujari was chanting...yet he was chanting it with the least concentration,in just one tone,and even worse..in between his cell phone rings and he picks it up to talk...If i myself,a girl of 16 at that time,had minimum sense to keep my cell and any other distractions away and close my eyes and pray..why can't such an aged man,who is ideally supposed to be in full concentration do it...It has all become such a huge business for all of them...If someone does the rituals with such least interest,how would god even be pleased...and how would we get the benefits..??ok ya..if the pooja is performed for us,and we pray with full devotion,we'll get the benefit...but isn't it double or multiple times better if the rituals performed are also with devotion rather than just for money...???

 

[kunjuppu]

soumya,

i have no answer, except perhaps this query.

do you think, God really cares, about the intonation and shraddha ofthe priest. is it not for our own satisfaction? cannot God see through who is sincere, irrespective of whether the person knows the right intonation, or one who does not know it at all, and has only some fervent thoughts towards Him?

 

[Soumya Ramasubramanian]

God ofcourse is not blind unloike many of the human beings..but if a person is not capable enough to do what he is supposed to do sincerely then he might as well walk away rather than doing absolute nonsense...there's no point sitting there to impress people under the title of a learned scholar...its better being an absolute normal person than showing to the world that "oh yeah i'm a learned fool...and you all are fools...so come and follow me...!!"..

 

[kunjuppu]

re post #4

good point soumya. i dont know what the solution is.

we have constant complaints here, about vaathiar's constantly on the cell phone, and who have no qualms interrupting any poojais to answer the little tinkles.

yet we continue to invite the vaathiars. dont we? can we afford not to conduct prayers anymore, because of corruption among vaathiars? can we move towards 'do it yourself' poojais?

i dont know!!

 

[Soumya Ramasubramanian]

Well...presently even though the vaadyar is there..its equivalent to a do it yourself only..its just a mental satisfaction of the people...But possibly,over the years i doubt if we'd actually have vaadyars..One,as each generation is born,the devotion level is dropping..No matter how much parents try instilling the importance of praying,the importance of god,etc..the current people are pretty much moving away rather than getting closer to God...I know cuz i get those vibes from what my fellow batchmates talk itself..And a major contributing factor to such unbelief in the existence of god is definitely the fake swamis all around,the unimportance given while doing rituals etc.Mostly we look up to our parents or if in joint family upto our grandparents on how to pray,why to pray everything...at the same time those clad in orange cloth are also a guide on how to meditate,how to be filled with immence devotion and complete concentration on the Lord and that is what pleases God..and that pleasing God is the ultimate necessity cuz if it was not for Him we wouldve never existed...I really dont know if things can be reverted or not...but for sure i wish just that minimum level of devotion atleast with God even if it is just a hi God..Bye God thing...

 

[suraju06]

Dear Kunjuppu,

If the mantra chanted is in Sanskrit intonation is very important. In Sanskrit, some times the meaning of the words change with intonation. It is a fact that many of the priests do not have the shradhdha and that reflects in their actions. Devotees are disappointed with their behavior.

 

[biswa]

The vaadyars are just doing a job for money aren't they? Or is there a deeper purpose behind their occupation (in the current day)?

A pujari short-circuiting mantras is not that different from the corner stationery store guy cheating us slightly on 1 kg of sugar or the auto-wallah returning insufficient change. Such is our mentality. The options are: do it ourselves if we can do it better, or not do it at all. Once you have your own car, you don't need to take the auto.

 

[Raghy]

I am just wondering how pariharams will work?

I had been to a famous temple in chennai and i gave for archana. As the priest was telling my name and other details he cut it abruptly and started talking to someone ......So according to me no sankalpam was done...

I am more worried as to how bigger pariharams will work due to lack of SHRADHHA by the vadhyars who do it? How can we get the palan of the pariharams?


Already mantra chanting has become faster than the speed of nervous impulse..at this rate so many people do parihara poojas and we dont know which is the best temple or best kurukkal or vadhyar which/who does things in a proper manner?

Sri.Kameshratnam, Greetings.

Vadhyar, Gurukkal etc are only mouthpieces. Their commitment or the lack of it is not relevant. Best option is to do it ourselves. I was doing the poojas at my own home in the past. But the whole thing is in our mind. I suggest, a commited prayer even if it is done only for a minute or two would give you a much better peace of mind than an elobarate homam conducted by someone else on your behalf.

Cheers!

 

[ozone]

re:

we have constant complaints here, about vaathiar's constantly on the cell phone, and who have no qualms interrupting any poojais to answer the little tinkles.

Isnt it the same 'we' who expect that the vaathiar pick up the phone at the first ring when we call him leaving aside whatever he is upto? How many of us would make a conscious effort not to disturb him and allow him to be devoted during the 'business hours'?

 

[kunjuppu]

re:

Isnt it the same 'we' who expect that the vaathiar pick up the phone at the first ring when we call him leaving aside whatever he is upto? How many of us would make a conscious effort not to disturb him and allow him to be devoted during the 'business hours'?

is there not something called 'voice mail'.

what happens, when you call someone, and the call is transferred to the voicemail. can the VM not be detailed to explain that the vaathiar is at a function, and will return the call, after the function is over?

also, will the same vaathiar, when officiating at a simpsons or TVS home, answer cell calls with the same diligence, that he does at your home and mine?

 

[kunjuppu]

The vaadyars are just doing a job for money aren't they? Or is there a deeper purpose behind their occupation (in the current day)?

A pujari short-circuiting mantras is not that different from the corner stationery store guy cheating us slightly on 1 kg of sugar or the auto-wallah returning insufficient change. Such is our mentality. The options are: do it ourselves if we can do it better, or not do it at all. Once you have your own car, you don't need to take the auto.

dear biswa,

let us not have great expectations from the vaathiar. let us, for arguement's sake, agree that he is doing his job only for money.

still it is a contract. his end of the bargain, is to lead the prayers and coordinate the function, to the client's satisfaction. in return for this service, he gets his fees. quid pro quo.

now, if we are not satisfied with his service, because he has skimped on prayers or interrupting the functions constantly by attending to his cell phone, it shows

- first lack of courtesy and manners, and work ethic
- failure on his part to keep up his side of the bargain
- poor customer service
- that the fact he is in a profession which values morality as much as service, and one key ingredient aka morality is missing from his service.

just imagine if your doctor does the same thing
- skimps on the time spent on you
- writes wrong prescriptions
- interrupts your consultation umpteen times by attending to cell phones (my doctor too attends phones while on consultation, but it an exception, and she is always apologetic about it, and it is something urgent requiring her attention,which is ok with me)

wont you change your doctor, who is hazardous to your physical health?

why would you not change your vaathiar, who is a hazard to what you believe is your spiritual health?

except that you may have no choice here? i dont know.

 

[Raji Ram]

Our family sAsthrigaL keeps his cell phone in silent mode and later on calls back after checking the missed calls list.
There are a few sincere sAsthrigaLs even now and because of them SingArach Chennai gets rains!! :rain:

 

[sarang]

1. As we switch off the phone when attending a kacheri or a function, or where is a board or announcement to switch off the phones, we can ask and expect the vathiyar to switch off his phone. Many do. Please do not blame all vathiyars with the same brush.
2. Many vathiyars have delegated the duty of attending the phone to wife (when at home) or to son or assistant during ceremonies.
3. People of all professions are conscious of cell phone interruptions; for many, especially, it is now tool in their profession and is used not just for chatting.
Vathiyars and temple priests are the new wash-stones for beating whether there is a reason or not.

Taking calls in the middle is done by all professionals. Indian doctors are no exception.

 

[kunjuppu]

1. As we switch off the phone when attending a kacheri or a function, or where is a board or announcement to switch off the phones, we can ask and expect the vathiyar to switch off his phone. Many do. Please do not blame all vathiyars with the same brush.
2. Many vathiyars have delegated the duty of attending the phone to wife (when at home) or to son or assistant during ceremonies.
3. People of all professions are conscious of cell phone interruptions; for many, especially, it is now tool in their profession and is used not just for chatting.
Vathiyars and temple priests are the new wash-stones for beating whether there is a reason or not.

Taking calls in the middle is done by all professionals. Indian doctors are no exception.

sarang,

i agree. where there is a will, there is a way.

it is sort of disheartening that indian doctors too take calls while in consultation. with doctors we have less leverage, but hopefully, the doctor has courtesy to excuse him or herself, and keep the call duration minimum.

i think public awareness of expectations of manners should be published everywhere. when i was young, we used to have civics classes. i dont know if today, it is the same.

 

[kunjuppu]

1. As we switch off the phone when attending a kacheri or a function, or where is a board or announcement to switch off the phones, we can ask and expect the vathiyar to switch off his phone. Many do. Please do not blame all vathiyars with the same brush.
2. Many vathiyars have delegated the duty of attending the phone to wife (when at home) or to son or assistant during ceremonies.
3. People of all professions are conscious of cell phone interruptions; for many, especially, it is now tool in their profession and is used not just for chatting.
Vathiyars and temple priests are the new wash-stones for beating whether there is a reason or not.

Taking calls in the middle is done by all professionals. Indian doctors are no exception.

sarang,

i agree. where there is a will, there is a way.

it is sort of disheartening that indian doctors too take calls while in consultation. with doctors we have less leverage, but hopefully, the doctor has courtesy to excuse him or herself, and keep the call duration minimum.

i think public awareness of expectations of manners should be published everywhere. when i was young, we used to have civics classes. i dont know if today, it is the same today.

best wishes

 

[Raji Ram]

........... Taking calls in the middle is done by all professionals. Indian doctors are no exception.

Very true, Sir!

I am reminded of a joke on doctors. A patient goes for consultation to his family doctor and before he completes each sentence,

a phone call interrupts and the doctor attends immediately! After a few minutes, the patient gets up. The surprised doctor asks

him why he wants to leave before finishing his consultation. Then comes the reply, 'Dear Doctor, I shall go out and give a phone

call to you!' hone:

 

[kameshratnam]

So if someone has got some poojas to be done for Sani Peyarchi....what is the way forward? We ourselves do it?

 

[sarang]

Again a doctor analogy:

When you are sick, you can consult a doctor, buy the medicine he prescribes, follow his advice and hope for the best. Or you can prescribe your own medicine and hope for the best.

The rationale behind having a priest is, he knows the procedure, and can guide you properly. But most important, he helps in maintaining an age old family tradition and ensures that there is continuity. Of course, he has to be compensated both financially and in kind, with due gratitude. Other option is to do it yourself with or without the help of books and audio/video media. No need to emphasise that faith is very important.

This is another doctor joke. One sick bloke went to a doctor, then bought the medicines from a medical shop and then threw away the medicines. This is the dialogue with his friend.
"Why did you go to the doctor?"
"The doctor has to make a living"
"why did you buy the medicine?"
"the pharmacist has to make a living."
"why did you throw away the medicine?"
"I have to live!"

So if someone has got some poojas to be done for Sani Peyarchi....what is the way forward? We ourselves do it?

 

[Soumya Ramasubramanian]

1. As we switch off the phone when attending a kacheri or a function, or where is a board or announcement to switch off the phones, we can ask and expect the vathiyar to switch off his phone. Many do. Please do not blame all vathiyars with the same brush. 2. Many vathiyars have delegated the duty of attending the phone to wife (when at home) or to son or assistant during ceremonies.3. People of all professions are conscious of cell phone interruptions; for many, especially, it is now tool in their profession and is used not just for chatting.Vathiyars and temple priests are the new wash-stones for beating whether there is a reason or not.Taking calls in the middle is done by all professionals. Indian doctors are no exception.

however can doctors taking calls in between a procedure and a pujari taking a call in between a puja be compared...??A pujari is meant to do puja alone..tht is his duty...his attending phone call is not a life threatening situation for anyone...Whereas a doctor gets a call...it could possibly be a life threatening situation for sum1...unless n until the doctor is so jobless and has extremely few patients i dont think any doctor would be yapping to glory on the phone while he is with patient...cuz a doctor knows the value of time and his duties...if he talks on the phone,he delays the patients all waiting outside and he'll be stuck late still working on patients....so basically a doctor cannot come into picture anywhere in the dont use mobile while working...Plus i bet there isnt any sensible doctor who uses his cell inside operation theatre...So considering all this...what killing urgency does a vaathiyar have with a cell next to him while doing pooja...ofcourse once he's done he cn gt bak to thm..can't he??

 

[kameshratnam]

No, i guess Sri Sarang has not understood my view point. I am prepared to go to the doctor and also take his medicines but the doctor is not paying attention to me and he seems to be having no respect for the work he is doing. In tamizh we say YENO DANO velai. That is how it is.

 

[sarang]

Either trust your doctor or change the doctor. You seem to blame all the doctors and the entire medical profession. That is not fair.

My experience is even if the vathiyar initially seems inattentive and slipshod, my interest and devotion warms him up and he does the whole ceremony with more shraddha and completeness.

Even vathiyars have to compete with competition from othe sects - shaiva, vaishnava and madhva - and of course e-vathiyars.

Before start tell him why and how you want a perfect and total ceremony. And be generous in dakshina. If we want the tradition and vathiyar profession to survive, positive action is necessary.

No, i guess Sri Sarang has not understood my view point. I am prepared to go to the doctor and also take his medicines but the doctor is not paying attention to me and he seems to be having no respect for the work he is doing. In tamizh we say YENO DANO velai. That is how it is.

 

[Soumya Ramasubramanian]

No, i guess Sri Sarang has not understood my view point. I am prepared to go to the doctor and also take his medicines but the doctor is not paying attention to me and he seems to be having no respect for the work he is doing. In tamizh we say YENO DANO velai. That is how it is.

im sorry..sir...but what exactly do you mean by saying that a DOCTOR has no respect for the work he is doing???Has any doctor prescribed you the wrong medicines?Has any doctor brought you to a near death condition?Has any of these conditions been brought to you by a doctor?then how can you even think of blaming a doctor...On the other hand a vaathiyar..he has been a cause for people's devotion to maybe drop..he is a part of the effects if the prayer or pooja is done wrongly...if he loses his concentration and starts saying something else the whole purpose is gone..So i don't think a doctor can in anyways be compared to a vaathiyar's lack of concentration...

 

[Soumya Ramasubramanian]

Either trust your doctor or change the doctor. You seem to blame all the doctors and the entire medical profession. That is not fair.My experience is even if the vathiyar initially seems inattentive and slipshod, my interest and devotion warms him up and he does the whole ceremony with more shraddha and completeness.Even vathiyars have to compete with competition from othe sects - shaiva, vaishnava and madhva - and of course e-vathiyars.Before start tell him why and how you want a perfect and total ceremony. And be generous in dakshina. If we want the tradition and vathiyar profession to survive, positive action is necessary.

exactly..that's a great option...to explain to the vaathiyar as to how we want it to be...and what is it for and the like...maybe they'd do much better that way.....

 

[ozone]

Most vadyars can gauge your expectations and commitment from your engagement in the sankalpam itself. If they find you sincere and engaged, they often reciprocate and even get motivated.