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Humans and Vegetarianism

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......... Sri SuryaKasyapa, I am afraid many have already jumped on & dumped the "Holy Geetha"! Materialism is on the ascendency and there is a mad rush towards the three sure gates to hell: Lust, Wrath & Greed. It is the rush towards the last of the three gates that has ruined the entire global economy recently. If anything The power of The Holy Geetha needs to be reiterated.

sekar,

i think at this point materialism is on the ascendancy.

actually materialism was also on the ascendancy, ever since the dawn of man (& woman).

we say ramayana or mahabharata, is the fight and victory of good over evil. but implicit in their message, is that - be good, win, and be rewarded.

the concept of reward for good, i think, translates into material possessions. after all rama at the end of the episode, became the ruler and wielded power. if power is not the ultimate ethos of materialism, i do not know what?

i do not mean to decry the epics or demean them. just a tangential observation. that's all.

the whole caste system again, is the consolidation and preservation of power, based on bloodlines, and inadvertently blocking the upward mobility of the smart born versus 'high born' stupids.

perhaps, the two exceptions, that i know of is only gautama buddha and ashoka, who willed away their materialism, for what they believed to be something more. maybe today bill gates is doing that.

not all of us are bill gates. we don't know where to draw the line between materialism and beyond. where does 'beyond' starts?

to tell an aspiring dalit, not to be materialistic is to condemn him to the same curse as his forebears. to tell an aspiring student not to study medicine, is to deny him a vocation.

i think materialism is good. how we garner it, and control it, is the essence of life. 'go for the kill', i tell my children, and then once you have been satiated, i tell them to start to give. and keep giving till it hurts.

thank you.
 
To Renuga ji How about home made Wine wether it is good for health or not. s.r.k.

Dear Sir,

Wine whether home made or commercial also contains C2H5OH(alcohol).
Alcohol has really no benefits to spiritual life.
Blend dark red grapes with water and drink it good for health.
Dont take too much if one is a diabetic.


Renuka
 
Sri s.r.k

Alcohol has highest colories and is not good for diabetic. Beer has one colory per millilitre of alcohol. A bottle of beer (650 ml) has 650 colories. Human requirement per day is hardly 1200 colories which met through normal vegetarian food. There is no requirement of non-vegetarian food and/or alcohol.

All the best
 
Dear Kunjuppu: (I am posting this as a member).

I am a member of PETA (even though I may not agree with some of their tactics) but because of them so many good things have happened to the poor animals! I am also a member in very many animal welfare-rights organizations in the USA.

I cannot believe you equating PETA with Islamic terrorists. While they may be aggressive in propagating the advocacy for the animals, they are NOT by any extent 'jihadis'. And Brigette Bardot was right; if someone cannot assimilate into their immigrated culture, then they should be thrown out. I will quote the following speech by the former Australian Prime Minister, John Howard. I 100% support his views. Too bad, India couldn't adopt a Uniform Civil Code for all citizens. Too bad, India doesn't have leaders with guts.

Muslims who want to live under Islamic Sharia law were told on Wednesday to get out of Australia , as the government targeted radicals in a bid to head off potential terror attacks.

Separately, Howard angered some Australian Muslims on Wednesday by saying he supported spy agencies monitoring the nation's mosques. Quote: 'IMMIGRANTS, NOT AUSTRALIANS, MUST ADAPT. Take It Or Leave It. I am tired of this nation worrying about whether we are offending some individual or their culture. Since the terrorist attacks on Bali , we have experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority of Australians.'

'This culture has been developed over two centuries of struggles, trials and victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom'

'We speak mainly ENGLISH, not Spanish, Lebanese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to become part of our society . Learn the language!'

'Most Australians believe in God. This is not some Christian, right wing, political push, but a fact, because Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly documented. It is certainly appropriate to display it on the walls of our schools.. If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new home, because God is part of our culture.'

'We will accept your beliefs, and will not question why. All we ask is that you accept ours, and live in harmony and peaceful enjoyment with us.'

'This is OUR COUNTRY, OUR LAND, and OUR LIFESTYLE, and we will allow you every opportunity to enjoy all this. But once you are done complaining, whining, and griping about Our Flag, Our Pledge, Our Christian beliefs, or Our Way of Life, I highly encourage you take advantage of one other great Australian freedom, 'THE RIGHT TO LEAVE'.'

'If you aren't happy here then LEAVE. We didn't force you to come here. You asked to be here. So accept the country YOU accepted.'

i find converted vegetarians are among the most violent people in the world.

my opinion is based on organizations like PETA, which i think, borders on the fringe of terrorism (yes, the jehadists do not have monopoly to this profession).

look at one time cheesecake brigitte bardot now. she is busy trying to chase out muslim immigrants out of france. and in her spare time, stopping people from eating horses .)

French Debate Ban on Sale of Horsemeat - TIME
 
Not so fast, Dr. Renuka! Alcohol does help in preventing heart diceases. Let me make this disclaimer that I do NOT advocate take up drinking!!
Please read on the following story from none other than the venerable world-famous Mayo Clinic staff:
Red wine, in moderation, has long been thought of as heart healthy. The alcohol and certain substances in red wine called antioxidants may help prevent heart disease by increasing levels of "good" cholesterol and protecting against artery damage...........

Red wine, antioxidants and resveratrol: Good for your heart? - MayoClinic.com

Silverfox


[
QUOTE=renukakarthikayan;38204]Dear Sir,

Wine whether home made or commercial also contains C2H5OH(alcohol).
Alcohol has really no benefits to spiritual life.
Blend dark red grapes with water and drink it good for health.
Dont take too much if one is a diabetic.


Renuka[/QUOTE]
 
May I add this interesting forum to the on-going discussion:

Saga Zone | Forum | Rising alcohol addiction costs 'could cripple the NHS'

Not so fast, Dr. Renuka! Alcohol does help in preventing heart diceases. Let me make this disclaimer that I do NOT advocate take up drinking!!
Please read on the following story from none other than the venerable world-famous Mayo Clinic staff:
Red wine, in moderation, has long been thought of as heart healthy. The alcohol and certain substances in red wine called antioxidants may help prevent heart disease by increasing levels of "good" cholesterol and protecting against artery damage...........

Red wine, antioxidants and resveratrol: Good for your heart? - MayoClinic.com

Silverfox


[QUOTE=renukakarthikayan;38204]Dear Sir,

Wine whether home made or commercial also contains C2H5OH(alcohol).
Alcohol has really no benefits to spiritual life.
Blend dark red grapes with water and drink it good for health.
Dont take too much if one is a diabetic.


Renuka
[/QUOTE]
 
Dear Silverfox Ji,
I had mentioned in the earlier post that it is the Resveratrol in the wine which has cardiovascular benefits and not the alcohol.
Resveratrol is present in red grapes, hence i advocated red grape juice.
nowadays resveratrol supplements are marketed sans the ill effects of alcohol.

anyway nice discussion.Keep it going.
bye for now
renuka
 
Sri Kunjuppu,

The scriptures clearly admonish not even to contemplate about "giving" without earning enough for oneself! Unfortunately, materialism without spiritualism is like a wild river without a dam to control it be it for a Brahmin or a Dalit.
I rest my case with Aadi Shankaracharya's famous hymn:
SaMprApte sannihite kAle
nahi nahi rakShati Duk.r~n karaNe || 1 ||



Sri Sekar, I have taken a liking to your posts.Keep posting with valuable opinion .I agree,moderation is needed in everything.
Medically speaking also, normal wealthy individuals are eating more than they need. People tend to acquire more than what is needed for a normal living.This is because "normal" has become a highly relative term, varying in interpretation.Money and muscle rule the world now. As you had mentioned a word " Moodha' and quoted ari Sankaracharya, I am also tempted to quote.

Jadhilo mundthee lunchitha kesah
Kaashaayaambara bahukrita veshah
pasyannapichana pasya vimoodhah
Udaraninittam Bahukrita Vesham

(Peopl gow hair,shave their head,wear kaashaya dress, Oh "Moodha" and know that all these are because of need to satisfy one's stomach(hunger) ).

Sekar &Sri Kunjuppu.
I am quoting Kunjuppu from his message Quote "actually materialism was also on the ascendancy, ever since the dawn of man (& woman).

we say ramayana or mahabharata, is the fight and victory of good over evil. but implicit in their message, is that - be good, win, and be rewarded.

the concept of reward for good, i think, translates into material possessions. after all rama at the end of the episode, became the ruler and wielded power. if power is not the ultimate ethos of materialism, i do not know what?

i do not mean to decry the epics or demean them. just a tangential observation. that's all.

the whole caste system again, is the consolidation and preservation of power, based on bloodlines, and inadvertently blocking the upward mobility of the smart born versus 'high born' stupids. " Unquote

Just see the italicised part.How nicely he has sidetracked into the pet subject, totally unrelated to your post ,!!!

I recall a day in my school.I had a friend who had similar knack. In the school test, a question was asked to write a passage on "Cow".But my friend has well prepared on topic " Coconut tree".
Somehow he wanted to manage. So he started the passage ..." We have a cow in our house. Every mornibg my mother takes it to the field and ties it to a coconut tree.Coconut tree is a very useful tre..." and he wrote all he knows about coconut tree.

Sri Kunjuppu and Sri Nara are having this quality very much.
Whatever you start discussion, they will pull it to the side track and talk on Caste and inter-caste. While I do not concur in this regard with them much, I really have genuine appreciation on their quality and singular mission.
If you just start a simple post "sugar is sweet," even then they will hijack it to their pet topic. ( no rancour here, only a compliment).

Keep posting Sekar,


Greetings






 
sury,

while i appreciate your observations, re myself (nara can speak for himself i guess) trying to tie everything to casteism, i am not so sure that i do it all the time.

most of the time, it is comments in references to postings, and if the subject naturally leads to evaluating social discriminations, one, i think, cannot but help to compare it, one of the biggest crimes against humanity. i think so.

i think, as long as the logic connects, it should be ok. but, it is upto the public to view it as such. i look upon you as an honoured public, and accept your observations, with grace and dignity, but hopefully with my head (still) held high.

thank you. :)
 
QUOTE=SuryaKasyapa;38250]Sri Sekar, I have taken a liking to your posts.
- The feelings are mutual!!
Keep posting with valuable opinion .

Sri SuryaKasyapa - many thanks but I cannot lay a claim to any of the opinions I have posted - they are all borrowed verbatim from the scriptures, mainly The Holy Geetha, Srimad Bhagavatha Purana, Bhaja Govindam & Brahma Sutras.

I agree,moderation is needed in everything.
- Alavukku Meerinal Amirthamum Visham

Medically speaking also, normal wealthy individuals are eating more than they need.
- Enregy can neither be created nor destroyed but only converted from one form to another e.g. from excess food to body fat, leading to an increase in waist/hips ratio, glucose intolerance and diabetes and related complications.

People tend to acquire more than what is needed for a normal living.This is because "normal" has become a highly relative term, varying in interpretation.Money and muscle rule the world now.
- No wonder there is such gross iniquity in that while in some part of the world morbid obesity is on the rise, in others there is poverty & malnutrition. Sri Kunjuppu mentioned "go for the kill... until you are satiated". The only problem here is "Trying to quench desire is like pouring clarified butter into sacrificial fire". Desire never ends and is quoted in the Holy Geetha as one of the three sure gates to hell. May be when one has acquired what is needed for his/her upkeep he/she might consider helping the less fortunate.

As you had mentioned a word " Moodha' and quoted ari Sankaracharya, I am also tempted to quote.

Jadhilo mundthee lunchitha kesah
Kaashaayaambara bahukrita veshah
pasyannapichana pasya vimoodhah
Udaraninittam Bahukrita Vesham

(Peopl gow hair,shave their head,wear kaashaya dress, Oh "Moodha" and know that all these are because of need to satisfy one's stomach(hunger) ).
- Thank you very much for quoting from Bhaja Govindam - one of my guiding stars.

Sekar &Sri Kunjuppu.
[/LEFT]
[/CENTER]
[/CENTER]
I am quoting Kunjuppu from his message Quote "actually materialism was also on the ascendancy, ever since the dawn of man (& woman).

we say ramayana or mahabharata, is the fight and victory of good over evil. but implicit in their message, is that - be good, win, and be rewarded.

the concept of reward for good, i think, translates into material possessions. after all rama at the end of the episode, became the ruler and wielded power. if power is not the ultimate ethos of materialism, i do not know what?

i do not mean to decry the epics or demean them. just a tangential observation. that's all.

the whole caste system again, is the consolidation and preservation of power, based on bloodlines, and inadvertently blocking the upward mobility of the smart born versus 'high born' stupids. " Unquote

Just see the italicised part.How nicely he has sidetracked into the pet subject, totally unrelated to your post ,!!!

I recall a day in my school.I had a friend who had similar knack. In the school test, a question was asked to write a passage on "Cow".But my friend has well prepared on topic " Coconut tree".
Somehow he wanted to manage. So he started the passage ..." We have a cow in our house. Every mornibg my mother takes it to the field and ties it to a coconut tree.Coconut tree is a very useful tre..." and he wrote all he knows about coconut tree.

Sri Kunjuppu and Sri Nara are having this quality very much.
Whatever you start discussion, they will pull it to the side track and talk on Caste and inter-caste. While I do not concur in this regard with them much, I really have genuine appreciation on their quality and singular mission.
If you just start a simple post "sugar is sweet," even then they will hijack it to their pet topic. ( no rancour here, only a compliment).
- I concur - in complimenting the duo! I am humbled by the chance to participate in the company of the elite.

Keep posting Sekar, - I will try to.


Greetings - & to you too.

Sekar Iyer





[/QUOTE]
 
....
Sri Kunjuppu and Sri Nara are having this quality very much.
Whatever you start discussion, they will pull it to the side track and talk on Caste and inter-caste.

Dear Suryakasyapa: Greetings!

Your disclaimer, "no rancour here, only a compliment" has no meaning when it is placed right after saying I have the habit of hijacking even innocuous topics and making connections like the boy who connected cow to coconut tree. If this is how you pay complements, I really shudder to think what it would be like if I am in the crosshairs of your criticisms.

This forum itself is called Tamilbrahmins and you are saying I am bringing in caste into everything.

Earlier you labeled me a missionary, and I just ignored it. Now you say I connect everything to caste. This time I ask you to cite some examples from my posts where I brought in caste unnecessarily and on my own.

Almost all the time I am responding to some sort of caste based claim or statement. Let me give a partial list of the threads in which I have commented on caste.

  • Inter caste marriages
  • Encouraging/Accepting Inter Caste Marriages
  • Is the caste system weakness of Hinduism?
  • purushasuktam - varna
I did not start any of these threads.

So, Suryakasyapa, I understand if you don't want to talk about caste. But your comment that I am like the boy connecting cow to coconut tree is without merit. I have to ask you either take this back or provide satisfactory evidence for this assertion.

I also would like to request you engage me in the debates instead of letting frustrations buildup that inevitably comes out with such unsupportable and unfortunate comments.

Cheers!
 
Sri.Suryakasyapa said:-

"If you just start a simple post "sugar is sweet," even then they will hijack it to their pet topic. ( no rancour here, only a compliment)."

Sri.Suryakasyapa Sir,

I could not resist! Here we Go...'Sugar is sweet'

Sugar is sweet; but have you noticed the amount of salty sweat it took to get the sugar? ironically, knwledge proved to be disadvantageous for Indians at one stage. Since Indian farmers had the knowhow to raise sugarcane, British rulers sent ship loads of unsuspectining people to Fiji, west Indies etc. Those unfortunate lower caste (Sorry!) people from south India and U.P started the Sugar empire of the world. I have spoken to a very old lady from Fiji. Her forefathers actually believed they were going to go back to India at one stage! That ladie's forefathers were from Salem. She was hungry for Tamizh (almost every Indian origin speak Hindi in Fiji). My wife made her comfortable, put on one after the other, Tamizh movies for her pleasure...

(There is more to write. But, I stop here to avoid derailing the topic. Sri.Suryakasyapa Sir, I can really talk a lot about sugarcane plantations and sugarcane cultivation. There will be volumes of caste references in that. I don't know how one can avoid that).

Cheers!
 
Sri.Suryakasyapa said:-

"
Sri.Suryakasyapa Sir,

I could not resist! Here we Go...'Sugar is sweet'

Sugar is sweet; ....................................................

(There is more to write. But, I stop here to avoid derailing the topic. Sri.Suryakasyapa Sir, I can really talk a lot about sugarcane plantations and sugarcane cultivation. There will be volumes of caste references in that. I don't know how one can avoid that).

Cheers!

A sweet and sugary Thanks
 
Dear Suryakasyapa: Greetings!

Your disclaimer, "no rancour here, only a compliment" has no meaning when it is placed right after saying I have the habit of hijacking even innocuous topics and making connections like the boy who connected cow to coconut tree. If this is how you pay complements, I really shudder to think what it would be like if I am in the crosshairs of your criticisms.

This forum itself is called Tamilbrahmins and you are saying I am bringing in caste into everything.

Earlier you labeled me a missionary, and I just ignored it. Now you say I connect everything to caste. This time I ask you to cite some examples from my posts where I brought in caste unnecessarily and on my own.

Almost all the time I am responding to some sort of caste based claim or statement. Let me give a partial list of the threads in which I have commented on caste.

  • Inter caste marriages
  • Encouraging/Accepting Inter Caste Marriages
  • Is the caste system weakness of Hinduism?
  • purushasuktam - varna
I did not start any of these threads.

So, Suryakasyapa, I understand if you don't want to talk about caste. But your comment that I am like the boy connecting cow to coconut tree is without merit. I have to ask you either take this back or provide satisfactory evidence for this assertion.

I also would like to request you engage me in the debates instead of letting frustrations buildup that inevitably comes out with such unsupportable and unfortunate comments.

Cheers!

Dear Sri Nara, Sri Kunjuppu & Sri SuryaKasyapa,

I hope I have not in anyway contributed to this unfortunate situation. I have only quoted from the scriptures and if I have erred it is unintentional and not deliberate. All the same I would like to offer my unreserved apologies to all concerned.

Having followed Dwaitha Vedanta for the best part of my life, I am now a follower of Adi Shankaracharya's Adwaitha Vedanta where casteism has no place or meaning as all creatures are considered to be part of the Cosmos/Brahman. I found this website where one can view the film on Adi Shankaracharya for free: Adi Shankaracharya 1983 Bollywood Movie Watch Online ~ Online Watch Movies Free

Om Shanti, Shanti Shanti - The Upanishads
 
Dear Shri SuryaKasyapa:

Greetings!

You are the one who invoked my name twice. If you wish to criticize my POV, which is your right and I do welcome it, is it too much to expect a response from you? Specifically, I request you to address the following:
So, Suryakasyapa, I understand if you don't want to talk about caste. But your comment that I am like the boy connecting cow to coconut tree is without merit. I have to ask you either take this back or provide satisfactory evidence for this assertion.

It is your prerogative to simply throw darts from the sidelines and then just keep mum when confronted, I understand that also. I will accept as flowers the darts from one who had flowers for the likes of Jamadagniya.

Cheers!
 
Please respond

Shri Suryakasyapa:

I believe you owe an answer to Shri Nara.


Dear Shri SuryaKasyapa:

Greetings!

You are the one who invoked my name twice. If you wish to criticize my POV, which is your right and I do welcome it, is it too much to expect a response from you? Specifically, I request you to address the following:
So, Suryakasyapa, I understand if you don't want to talk about caste. But your comment that I am like the boy connecting cow to coconut tree is without merit. I have to ask you either take this back or provide satisfactory evidence for this assertion.

It is your prerogative to simply throw darts from the sidelines and then just keep mum when confronted, I understand that also. I will accept as flowers the darts from one who had flowers for the likes of Jamadagniya.

Cheers!
 
Shri Suryakasyapa:

I believe you owe an answer to Shri Nara.

Sri Silverfox,


In fact I just somehow missed Sri Nara’s first posting,When I made a courteous acknowledgement response to Sri Kunjuppu’s post, nothing would have prevented me from extending similar courtesy to Sri Nara also. Many times , when I do not have much time ,I just glance the latest post only , when I surf . May be so I would have missed it . I want to be in the forum with all my good intention(as most here) of betterment of TB s and Brahmins in general., therefore there is no necessity for me to shutdown communication.

Tks & Regards.

(btw nowadays we are not seeing you in the forum much.. We expect more from you now that the forum has expanded well and interesting more members and guests.)

Sri Nara,

Greetings,

The example I quoted was just to say something in a lighthearted way .I was sincerely intending a compliment to you. Whenever we allude certain things by way of example ,it is not to equate it to the person or belittle him. Many times earlier also elsewhere in different threads ,I have openly complimented your dedicated efforts to drive your point, while disagreeing with the suggestion/view put forth by you.

If at any time I have discontinued a discussion ,it was only when I got convinced that ,further discussion may not bring any positive result as intended or it may go on emotional lines, thereby defeating my (and of most members of this forum) intention of unity among TBs and betterment of TBs and Brahmins in general..In fact when I opened a thread sometime earlier, and I had to be away for a few days without much accessing to internet. I had intimated moderators , that I may not be active in the forum for a few days, and my absence should not be taken as running away from discussion.

Hence , I assure you that , you need not take any offence to the wordings , as honestly, no offence or intention was there to belittle you. During discussions , we have to quote many examples ,,similies, etc.If we go on feeling that the word or comment is directed to us in person, there cannot be any meaningful discussion.

I hope, I am clear now.

Thanks & regards

Greetings.
 
Dear Sri Nara, Sri Kunjuppu & Sri SuryaKasyapa,

I hope I have not in anyway contributed to this unfortunate situation. I have only quoted from the scriptures and if I have erred it is unintentional and not deliberate. All the same I would like to offer my unreserved apologies to all concerned.

Having followed Dwaitha Vedanta for the best part of my life, I am now a follower of Adi Shankaracharya's Adwaitha Vedanta where casteism has no place or meaning as all creatures are considered to be part of the Cosmos/Brahman. I found this website where one can view the film on Adi Shankaracharya for free: Adi Shankaracharya 1983 Bollywood Movie Watch Online ~ Online Watch Movies Free

Om Shanti, Shanti Shanti - The Upanishads

Sri Sekar,

I read your post now.You did not do anything to feel disappointed and regretting. A forum discussion , will have different opinions and viewpoints coming from different persons ,many times ,tinged with some bias , as per the proponent's understanding, situations, experiences etc. Overcoming all this , we have to continue, as our aim is something more important.
We present a flower of Rose.Sometimes without our knowing, there may a rare case of a thorn hiding under the leaves. That person has alternatives.He can ignore by thinking that thorn is naturally found in rose.He can also build imagination that the presenter has given it deliberately to hurt me. It all depends. So just take all these in normal stride, and keep going with our good intentions.

I am in common with you regarding Sri Sankaracharya. I had the fortune to study and graduate from the college named after the Acharya, in his birthplace.
Sometimes ,in my posts, also I may include Adi Sankaracharyas words which have interested me ,or had an effect on me.

"Nalinidalagat jalamati taralam
tadwadjeevithamathisayachapalam.......


Greetings
 
...... During discussions , we have to quote many examples ,,similies, etc.If we go on feeling that the word or comment is directed to us in person, there cannot be any meaningful discussion.


Ok Shri Suryakasyapa, I will accept your explanation, even though I am particularity underwhelmed by it. The compliments you pay have a lot more of a sting indeed than some of the most strident criticisms I have seen directed at me. Well, thats alright I guess, I should and can deal with it.

In any case, I request you to directly address me if you have any disagreements with me instead of referring to me in third person in posts directed at others.

With best regards.....
 
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