I want KRSji back

[Visalakshi Ramani]

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May be we should start another poll whether we want the

Forum Hijackers' re-entry into the forum or not?

I feel KRS should be restored as a moderator. If he has played by the rules, I see no reason to bring him down.
Even if there was error in judgement, I dont see why that should be determined as fatal.
I see this poll as a judgement against a few who behind the scenes holed up an individual and took the forum and the rest of us to ransom.
This poll is in condemnation of those unruly minority.

 

[Visalakshi Ramani]

You mean Tarzan's cry of victory beating his chest and

making a lot of noise - imitating our ancestors?

My vote is YES.
But is this the best way to show our support for Dr. KRS?
The group of "respected" members who demanded and won his withdrawal are already gloating. This may become one more thing to beat their chest.
I feel Dr. KRS is too much of a gentleman to bow down to such requests.

 

[prasad1]

I am surprised that this "member" is still posting (or boasting), particularly since he wanted me to banned from the site for "chasing" him, if I posted in the thread after his post. It must be great ego boost for this member since he got KRS off the site.

 

[Visalakshi Ramani]

Why am I reminded of the pancha tantra story in which the frogs in a well wanted a "glamorous king" and NOT another soft natured frog like themselves as their king.

They voted for the shining coated black cobra and all of them got devoured by their beautiful new king in no time!!!

 

[ozone]

I am surprised that this "member" is still posting (or boasting), particularly since he wanted me to banned from the site for "chasing" him, if I posted in the thread after his post. It must be great ego boost for this member since he got KRS off the site.

This is perhaps what Sri Zebra was referring to. The dormant ones suddenly become alert and hurl a stone and quickly bury their head, but keep their eyes lifted.
( I am guessing who it is, since I am new and noticing a new entrant who writes with familiarity)

 

[Nara]

Folks,

I think this is a pointless and self-serving poll.

Wait, wait, hear me out before emptying the bucket full of sewer on my head

Let me begin by saying I voted YES in this poll. I wish I can vote YES 10 times, or even 100 times in favor of my brother Shri KRS, what the heck talk is cheap so let me go for the jugular, 10,000 times. BTW, I am proud of the fact Shri KRS calls me brother both in PMs and in public and I consider it an honor to call him with the same term of endearment.

This poll makes a complicated issue into a personality contest, or a "war" between one group against another. From the kind of reactions I see it seems the most vocal people, probably with the exception of Raghy, seem to look at Shri KRS as their champion against the so called Brahmin Bashers and an YES vote on this poll is in fact a dagger plunged in the heart of these vile brahmin haters.

I call for some sanity here, let us look at the issues without getting into personalities. This is not just the so called Brahmin Bashers who see a problem with the nature of moderation, look at the list, myself, Sangom, Yamaka, Suraju, Saidevo, Kunjuppu. This is a diverse group of individuals. We all went silent because of the nature of moderation. (K was about to.)

Do you want all of us to just walk away? Is that what you all want? Or, do you want to find a way out of this mess so we all can benefit? Stop with this cheap gratuitous piling on and start thinking of a way to help Praveen and Shri KRS make peace with this diverse group.

Do you think this poll helps in this regard? What if there is a poll for the following: how many are you are in favor of talking and finding a solution to this problem so that Shri KRS's moderation is accepted by all, and all of us participate in discussions actively. How many YES would we get for that poll? Think about that.

I call on everyone to contribute ideas and see how to make peace, what kind of moderation rules will be seen as fair by everyone. Be reasonable. To say that anything that hurts the majority sentiment is not only vague, it would never be accepted by me, let alone others. If I criticize an acharya then it is silly to say "how dare you?" Instead, present a cogent argument why I am being a moron when I criticize the acharya. That is what I think this forum should be.

My preference is to set very objective standards like no foul language, no call to violence, no personal attacks, etc. Such language can be edited out without comment. Any repeat offender is given a boot. Everything else goes in the General Discussion forum.

Please contribute your ideas. Be reasonable and be courteous, don't call others haters, bashers, hyenas, etc.

If we want we can come together and help Praveen and Shri KRS find a solution for this bad situation, offer some constructive ideas, just expressing sycophantic platitudes does not help anybody, least of all Praveen and KRS.

Cheers!

 

[Haridasa Siva]

Welcome back, Naraji. Wish you a happy new year.

Folks,

I think this is a pointless and self-serving poll.

As the starter of this thread, I can assure you this is not self-serving.


This poll makes a complicated issue into a personality contest, or a "war" between one group against another. From the kind of reactions I see it seems the most vocal people, probably with the exception of Raghy, seem to look at Shri KRS as their champion against the so called Brahmin Bashers and an YES vote on this poll is in fact a dagger plunged in the heart of these vile brahmin haters.

For me, it is the issue of retaining the moderator in his capacity and not to bow down to pressures from a few (from both BB camps - Brahmin Boasting or Brahmin Bashing). Nothing to do with the views of the members.


I call for some sanity here, let us look at the issues without getting into personalities.
I look far beyond just personalities.


Do you want all of us to just walk away? Is that what you all want?
Not at all.... I do not want TB forum to be a mere bajanai madam. I am more than willing to hear from you and other folks. You know how many times I have recorded my praise for you and Sangom sir.


/QUOTE]

 

[zebra16]

I have voted YES to the poll.

With the words mob, gangs, ransom, extortion etc. legalised (at least for this thread - because of previous usage) it becomes easy to respond, without worrying too much about the language. Now some responses to the different sounding posts.

1. The mob:

None of the mob have made any issues regarding moderation. If at all they have been docked, they have taken the punishment without playing truant or making any bones about it. They neither demand that the notes of the "judge" be opened and looked into (like joint parliamentary committee), nor are they questioning the judge's motives or capacity. To that extent they are disciplined "mob".

2. There are posts indicating end of "intrusive moderation" or change of moderation rules. None of the mob is any eager even to know what the changes are but are "collectively confident" that it is good for the forum, whatever the change be.

The Poll:

(1) The poll always involves voting and of course the majority counts there. Of course, voting is a mob activity, but is it not the way a vast majority of countries function?

(2) When I voted there were 14 votes. If 14 are a full mob, what is 7? Half-a-mob?

(3) Suddenly there is a clarion call for justice not only to be done, but to be seen to be done so. A clear shift from the position of 48 hours before when one was required to call a black metal thing as "spade" only, even if it resembled a hammer.

(4) Laws are always legislated by the majority for the majority, of course taking into the account the minority and giving it effective safeguards. Was this point not repeatedly drummed into our heads vide various threads like "reservation" etc. and repeatedly emphasized that TBs are a minority and will continue to be a minority at least for the next millinieum? So how about the minority gulping here the "majority rule" for a change? . Mind you, this is purely academic. It is not as if Sri Praveen has handed over the forum to the majority.

Moderator and Moderation:

Running the web forum with frequent posts is like running a swiss league bridge tournament. Anyone conversant with tournament bridge will know that the tournament director's duty is to award penalties for infractions, award adjusted scores to the non-offending side and encourage the penalised side to appeal to the Appeals Committee for thorough ruling. So why was Sri KRS being pressurised to deliver instant and correct verdict? The appeal which is being made now for the cooling period of 48 hours break from non-stop posting could have been sought or offered before the episode also.

The future:

It is not Solomon's wisdom that said two hands are needed for clapping. If the "intelligentia" think that they are needed to have traffic in the forum, it goes without saying that the "mob" is needed to understand or mis-understand the intelligent outpour. Ever wondered why there are some periods in the history when master pieces whether in art or literature or painting or poetry or sculpture were not turned out? It is not that such master-class artists did not exist, but the master-class artists could not be bothered with the masses or "mob" and the "mob" simply abandoned the elite.

 

[suraju06]

Dear Mr. Siva,

your post #18:

I appreciate your sense of fairness and justice. But no member can bring in a situation where the moderator has to quit. Moderator's decision (right or wrong) should be final. I don't think it would be prudent to go into the "history and geography" of what forced KRSji to quit. The purpose of this poll is only to invite KRSji back AS A MODERATOR. This poll, in my opinion, would not "increase conflicts or encourage divisiveness". I am not saying this because I started the thread. It is to restore and reinforce order to the forum. I hope you know for sure that I have nothing either for or against any individual in this forum.

Your words "history and geography" and "......only to invite KRSji back AS A MODERATOR" (in capitals) indicate a certain amount of anger, stridency and frustration. I am sure you are aware that using capital letters in a discussion forum to express an idea amounts to shouting at the top of your voice. Why this harshness Mr. Siva? Are you angry because I do not agree with your views? Or is it because I am not falling in line with your line of thinking/wish that Mr KRS should be back as a moderator?

you have added "But no member can bring in a situation where the moderator has to quit. Moderator's decision (right or wrong) should be final". Well, it is a loaded statement. It is presumed that a member brought in this situation-this presumption is itself is debatable(not history or geography). A moderator's decision can be final but a member should be allowed to say what he thinks and then moderator can give his decision. Then the other members will draw their own conclusions about the fairness. Someone has to finally tell the king that he is naked even if the cost is to lose his life.

I will not respond anymore on this topic. I will come back to the forum after the dust settles.

Cheers, my friend.

 

[Nara]

....(2) When I voted there were 14 votes. If 14 are a full mob, what is 7? Half-a-mob?

[..]

If the "intelligentia" think that they are needed to have traffic in the forum, it goes without saying that the "mob" is needed to understand or mis-understand the intelligent outpour.

Who among is not opinionated? For every opinion expressed here a counter is just as easy. At this juncture some positive thinking and ideas to keep the forum vibrant with healthy and vigorous debates is sorely needed. If this group called "intelligentsia" is behaving recklessly, then the group labelled "mob" may be accused of the same vice. This can only lead to more mutual incrimination.

On my part, my many times bigger ego not withstanding, I regret my role in precipitating the matter and offer my apology. However, my concern about objectively fair moderation still remains unaddressed. Will there be any more discussion on how we go forward, or are we not done feasting on the past misdeeds of the "intelligentsia" and the "mob"?

Cheers!

 

[ozone]

Who among is not opinionated? For every opinion expressed here a counter is just as easy. At this juncture some positive thinking and ideas to keep the forum vibrant with healthy and vigorous debates is sorely needed. If this group called "intelligentsia" is behaving recklessly, then the group labelled "mob" may be accused of the same vice. This can only lead to more mutual incrimination.

On my part, my many times bigger ego not withstanding, I regret my role in precipitating the matter and offer my apology. However, my concern about objectively fair moderation still remains unaddressed. Will there be any more discussion on how we go forward, or are we not done feasting on the past misdeeds of the "intelligentsia" and the "mob"?

Cheers!

I believe the immediate next step should be to have all those who stood at the negotiation table and demanded things that led to the moderators resignation, and received the Poornakumbam come forward and do the same.
Since this was a collective effort (atleast witnessed that way), we need them to also concur.
If they choose to continue to stay away, they should NOT be included in drafting the changes
Fair?

 

[Jaykay767]

Absolutely yes for me !!. KRS is not only an excellent moderator, he also adds tremendous value with this relevant, pointed queries/questions on various posts !!

 

[zebra16]

However, my concern about objectively fair moderation still remains unaddressed. Will there be any more discussion on how we go forward,

Right Ho!! Would you be opening a new thread for it? Is it okay with the administrators to have such a thread discussing moderation?

Regards,

 

[ozone]

Folks,

. If I criticize an acharya then it is silly to say "how dare you?" Instead, present a cogent argument why I am being a moron when I criticize the acharya. That is what I think this forum should be.

Most of the time I have found such arguments are made with the sole purpose of belitting the individual and not with the purpose of objectively looking at the demerits and the drawbacks. If one tends to exaggerate more on the dark side and completely discard the bright side, personality clashes are inevitable. Moderation intervention can only be to stop further discussion on the topic

 

[biswa]

Though I don't agree with Mr. Nara always, I have to agree with him here. Too often I see the personal biases of a moderator seeping into the moderation. Example:

Mr. K had written a long post about some topic, which I have unfortunately forgotten. However in that post there were a couple of posts about unhygienic, unsanitary conditions in India. These sentences were edited out with the comment in red "Please refrain from saying negative things about our mother country, India".

I mean seriously? That is not moderation, that is censorship. That is stifling responsible, free speech.

 

[zebra16]

Though I don't agree with Mr. Nara always, I have to agree with him here. Too often I see the personal biases of a moderator seeping into the moderation. Example:

Mr. K had written a long post about some topic, which I have unfortunately forgotten. However in that post there were a couple of posts about unhygienic, unsanitary conditions in India. These sentences were edited out with the comment in red "Please refrain from saying negative things about our mother country, India".

I mean seriously? That is not moderation, that is censorship. That is stifling responsible, free speech.

Two things here.

One it was edited by Sri Praveen and not Sri KRS (as per edit note in the message).
and I think this thread is all about Sri KRS

Second, it is your guess what the expunged portion contained and you are missing the mark with what was compared with what.

 

[ShivKC]

Folks,

If I criticize an acharya then it is silly to say "how dare you?" Instead, present a cogent argument why I am being a moron when I criticize the acharya. That is what I think this forum should be.

Cheers!

here i go with Sh,KRS, and i bet suraju would not be there to support this.

free speech, yes, but to what limit?

can any one present a cogent argument against any judgements from the court of law? Atleast in the erstwhile Victorian lands, which include india and usa too.

there is a limit.

i can post a similar argument to these kind of posts, supposedly cogent

i can call any one ' a bastard', and its up to that poor fellow to present me with a cogent argument to prove me wrong!! how about this situation?

 

[Servall]

My vote is YES.

I do not know Mr. KRS that well, and I was perhaps the first few ones to question type of censorship in this forum.

However, I do understand we all need to follow certain norms for the larger goodness and his moderation to-date was only with good intent, and above board. Where he had issues with certain posts, we understand that he solicited clarification and when he felt it would hurt the larger interest he moderated. Folks, he may not be the best moderator, it is not what he does for life, none of us are perfect.

Although this forum is not what I would like this to be, and what I came in for and do not have any significant interest to pursue with too much of time, moderation happens to be vital for any public forum, and I would like Mr. KRS back.

Peace..

 

[kkumar29]

i can call any one ' a bastard', and its up to that poor fellow to present me with a cogent argument to prove me wrong!! how about this situation?

No, the poor fellow can ignore your comment and let you exhibit your ignorance. What you need to understand is the posts are opinions and nobody is obliged to defend or provide justifications for holding an opinion.

I do not understand the uproar. It is a private forum run by an individual and he can choose what he wants for the forum. If you don't like what is being offered you can quit and start your own forum with rules that you like.

It is as simple as that.

K. Kumar

 

[prasad1]

I believe the immediate next step should be to have all those who stood at the negotiation table and demanded things that led to the moderators resignation, and received the Poornakumbam come forward and do the same.
Since this was a collective effort (atleast witnessed that way), we need them to also concur.
If they choose to continue to stay away, they should NOT be included in drafting the changes
Fair?

I agree with your sentiment. I do not like this one sided meeting, it is more like hostage negotiation.

But in the interest of the site and site owners, I am willing to sit it out. Mr. Praveen needs our support at this time.

 

[prasad1]

Two things here.

One it was edited by Sri Praveen and not Sri KRS (as per edit note in the message).
and I think this thread is all about Sri KRS

Second, it is your guess what the expunged portion contained and you are missing the mark with what was compared with what.

There are members in this forum who constantly criticize India and Indians. They keep writing false and misleading stories about their favorite China, and put down India. They then claim that we they are trying is to shame us to change.
If your child comes home with a B, if you keep criticizing for not getting an A, you are not going to improve his grade but surely you are going to demoralize that child. I have tried to tell this member to change his style, but insted he reports me to the principle.
In a public forum, when you ran away from that country to greener pasture, we have a responsibility to appreciate the efforts of Indian and Indians, unless of course you are actively doing something for them.

There is a lot happening in India, some of them are good some not so good. We need to recognize and appreciate the good that is happening in a democratic setting in India.