India's Daughter... is she?

[auh]

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I recollect a debate in our forum a year back (or perhaps, even more) about rape being all about power. Most of the members residing abroad were in favour of this and refused to acknowledge that in our society women are viewed mainly as an object of pleasure.

Now an interview by the rapist has chillingly confirmed the view

What I've discovered on my journey, and if I hadn't met with these rapists, I wouldn't have come to the answer I've come to, the deep insight I've gained, which is that the disease is not the rapist, the disease is the society and we, as a part of that society, must take responsibility for encouraging men to see women as of no value.

This is the mentality of most in the Indian society now:

ML SHARMA: A female is just like a flower. It gives a good-looking, very softness performance, pleasant. But on the other hand, a man is just like a thorn. Strong, tough enough. That flower always needs protection. If you put that flower in a gutter, it is spoilt. If you put that flower in a temple, it will be worshipped. She should not be put on the streets just like food. The 'lady', on the other hand, you can say the 'girl' or 'woman', are more precious than a gem, than a diamond. It is up to you how you want to keep that diamond in your hand.
If you put your diamond on the street, certainly the dog will take it out. You can't stop it.
You are talking about man and woman as friends. Sorry, that doesn't have any place in our society.
A woman means I immediately put the sex in his eyes.
We have the best culture. In our culture, there is no place for a woman.
That girl was with some unknown boy who took her on a date.
In our society, we never allow our girls to come out from the house after 6:30 or 7:30 or 8:30 in the evening with any unknown person.

AP SINGH: If very important, if very necessary, she should go outside. But she should go with the family members, like uncle, father, mother, grandfather, grandmother, etc, etc. She should not go in night hours with her boyfriend. If my daughter or sister engaged in pre-marital activities and disgraced herself and allowed herself to lose face and character by doing such things, I would most certainly take this sort of sister or daughter to my farmhouse, and in front of my entire family, I would put petrol on her and set her alight. This is my stand. I still today stand on that reply.

 

[auh]

Adding one more link BBC News - Delhi rapist says victim shouldn't have fought back

Mukesh Singh, the driver of the bus, described to me every detail of what happened during and after the incident. While prosecutors say the men took turns to drive the bus, and all took part in the rape, Singh says he stayed at the wheel throughout.
Along with three of the other attackers, Singh is now appealing against his death sentence. In 16 hours of interviews, Singh showed no remorse and kept expressing bewilderment that such a fuss was being made about this rape, when everyone was at it.
"A decent girl won't roam around at nine o'clock at night. A girl is far more responsible for rape than a boy," he said.

Mukesh Singh is one of five convicted of the crime - his brother Ram died in prison before the trial

"Housework and housekeeping is for girls, not roaming in discos and bars at night doing wrong things, wearing wrong clothes. About 20% of girls are good."
People "had a right to teach them a lesson" he suggested - and he said the woman should have put up with it.
Continue reading the main story [h=2]Find out more[/h]

Leslee Udwin's film, India's Daughter, will be broadcast on Storyville on BBC Four on Sunday 8 March at 22:00 GMT. It will be shown in India on NDTV at 21:00 local time.

"When being raped, she shouldn't fight back. She should just be silent and allow the rape. Then they'd have dropped her off after 'doing her', and only hit the boy," he said.
Chillingly, he went on: "The death penalty will make things even more dangerous for girls. Now when they rape, they won't leave the girl like we did. They will kill her. Before, they would rape and say, 'Leave her, she won't tell anyone.' Now when they rape, especially the criminal types, they will just kill the girl. Death."

 

[renuka]

Adding one more link BBC News - Delhi rapist says victim shouldn't have fought back

I read this in the newspapers out here.

Its spine chilling to read what the convicted rapist had to say!

He made it sound as if he was teaching his victim a lesson for being out late at night.

So that means he is a "good guy" for trying to teach a girl a lesson?

I did not know 'good guys" rape women!

He is a down right bloody criminal with an evil mind...playing the blame the victim game knowing that enough brainless people will agree with him and also he will have a crowd following of moral police females who will always blame a victim.

Its disgraceful and disgusting to read what he said.

He is a cold blooded criminal with no compassion and remorse.

 

[renuka]

I had a Non Indian male here who read the same article in the newspaper and asked me "is that all an Indian woman in India is worth? Nothing?..How can men in India think of women this way?"

 

[Raji Ram]

Dear Renu,

Till the punishment is the one shown in a video posted by P J Sir, these criminals will talk like this! :blah:

 

[krish44]

Sick.
One feels like vomitting .
This is india

 

[vgane]

The rapists should be publically hanged.. Period.. They do not deserve anything less.. There should be no more delay in meting out the punishment to the perpetrators of heinous crime...HC/SC Watch out! Now the public will not allow any more of the sloth!!

 

[auh]

Actually I believe that the problem is a different one that would not be solved by punishment.

It is about the worldview. How do you go about punishing a person who believes that when a woman wears a modern dress she is to be had?

I have friends who are of the view that when a woman dresses provocatively "what other reason is there than to invite? And hence a man cannot be blamed."

A pathan taxi driver out here had once said to my colleague when he was travelling, on seeing a European lady wearing a short top and a mini skirt that "Choo****. Agar aise dress pehnega tho pakdega kyon nahin?"

It is not a crime as simple to be compared to a theft or a robbery. Much of the males believe (maybe from religion and maybe from culture) that they can impose upon a woman physically and that is acceptable because there are certain "boundaries" or "limits" that shouldn't be crossed.

"Ponna irundha ippadi thaan irukkanum" - those who subscribe to this kind of idealogy also fit in the category of the rapist.

I think these societal norms should be broken. But to what extent?

 

[auh]

So that means he is a "good guy" for trying to teach a girl a lesson?

I did not know 'good guys" rape women!

Exactly. As seen by him, it is not at all a problem.

Please scroll down the article where a person evidences no empathy for the five year old he had raped. His reason?

When I asked him how he could cross the line from imagining what he wanted to do, to actually doing it - given her height, her eyes, her screams - he looked at me as though I was crazy for even asking the question and said: "She was beggar girl. Her life was of no value."

These answers reveal the kind of people we are living with. The society we have created, expecting it to protect us.

 

[auh]

The rapists should be publically hanged.. Period.. They do not deserve anything less.. There should be no more delay in meting out the punishment to the perpetrators of heinous crime...HC/SC Watch out! Now the public will not allow any more of the sloth!!

I only hope that the judicial process could somehow be fast-tracked, at the least for crimes that involve physical and mental injury, such as rape, murder etc.

But Nirbhaya's parents themselves scorn at the judicial system for the delay it has taken in their case.

The Delhi that came to the streets - is it sleeping now?

 

[biswa]

I think we have to acknowledge that there is a hidden animal in humans in general. It is not only an India problem. War time rapes have been a part of human history in all continents and is going on in ISIS land, Sudan, and has happened in Rwanda, Bosnia, Bangladesh and on and on. There is no solution only deterrence. Punishment follows the crime.

 

[prasad1]

By banning the film for telecast in India, it will act as an instant advertisement for the film worldwide. In fact BBC4 has already advanced the broadcast of the film even as the Indian government is attempting to serve its court order. The film “The Party” may have passed off as a minor comedy, but for the outrage that it excited in India and the ban it earned. Similarly, one can easily foresee ‘India’s Daughter’ being marketed as the film Incredible India does not want you to see. The answer to an unlikeable film is not a ban, but another film that tells your side. If India were to wisely use the Nirbhaya fund to achieve safe streets for its daughters, ‘India’s Daughter’, from beyond the grave, will have done good for this country.

 

[prasad1]

By all accounts, filmmaker Leslee Udwin obtained really unsettling testimonies. For example Mukesh Singh, the bus driver who has been sentenced to death in the Nirbhaya rape case, says that no decent girl would have been roaming around at night or that she should have just stayed silent and ‘allowed’ the rape. But the real scandal here is not who permitted such an interview, but how disturbingly common such a point of view — which utterly devalues women — is across social classes in India. Politicians of all hues, even police chiefs and women’s commission members have been heard to suggest that women themselves are somehow responsible for being raped.

So when parliamentarians took umbrage at Udwin yesterday, the smell of hypocrisy was heavy in the air. All the breast-beating disguises two basic realities. First, the writ of the Indian government doesn’t run across the world or the internet — viewers can’t be stopped from choosing to watch Udwin’s film. Second, if the goal is preventing rapes, it can’t be achieved by pushing unsettling testimonies into the shadows. Remedying horrific crimes requires looking them in the face and probing the sick mentalities that underlie them.


Does a woman invite rape by dressing differently from her mother? Or by venturing out of her home at night? Should rape be redressed by marriage to the rapist? It is deeply disturbing that different Indians answer these questions in different ways. It disturbs the Modi government too. Hence its continuing focus on schemes for female uplift. But this is precisely why it should agree with enlightened MPs like Anu Aga and Javed Akhtar — highlighting horrifying mindsets also highlights the necessity of changing those mindsets. Simply shoving them under the carpet and pretending they don’t exist provides ideal conditions for them to fester and grow, provoking more crimes in future.

Let?s talk about rape: Banning a documentary about disturbing mindsets won?t reduce sex crimes - TOI Blogs

 

[renuka]

I think we have to acknowledge that there is a hidden animal in humans in general..

Dear Biswa Ji,

I dont think its fair to "insult" animals by comparing them with criminals.

Animals live within their Dharma.

 

[Raji Ram]

The scanty dress is NOT the reason for such crimes. Some victims are in single digit age (!!) and some are above 70!

Elderly women who go out to the toilet at night are also not spared! Where is the punishment for these criminals?

 

[Janaki Jambunathan]

The scanty dress is NOT the reason for such crimes. Some victims are in single digit age (!!) and some are above 70!

Elderly women who go out to the toilet at night are also not spared! Where is the punishment for these criminals?

Simple Ban the documentry which exposes ever one's attitude towards rape on the prtext it will affect our Tourism! The world will belive India is free from the crime of Rape!

 

[renuka]

The scanty dress is NOT the reason for such crimes. Some victims are in single digit age (!!) and some are above 70!

Elderly women who go out to the toilet at night are also not spared! Where is the punishment for these criminals?

Dear RR ji,

Just last month out here in East Malaysia an elderly women aged 70 was raped by a Pakistani male who came to her house to sell cloth and collect his payment.

The elderly woman owed him RM 10 and he got mad that the elderly lady did not pay up full and raped her!

The rapist is a Pakistani citizen making a living by selling cloth from house to house.

He said he raped her to teach her a lesson for not paying up!

 

[Raji Ram]

.......... He said he raped her to teach her a lesson for not paying up!

Dear Renu,

All the more reason to 'make' him NOT teach such a lesson, ever in his life time!

 

[sudeshwer]

Asha Ram, selfstyle guru who is now in jail, anounced at that time that the girl (nirbhaya) shud have allowed herself to rape. That idiot guru was himself a great rapist. yes, this documentary is giving bad picture abroad about Indian men. yes I also met few Australians white who enquired about Indian men. I told him that one Indian is standing in front of him, that is me. what else I cud say. the problem is that this documentary is available in Youtube. shame. BBC shud be given a lesson. Had it been China instead of India, BBC wud have been banned. let us see what Modi Govt do - srinivasan

 

[sudeshwer]

Dear RR ji,

Just last month out here in East Malaysia an elderly women aged 70 was raped by a Pakistani male who came to her house to sell cloth and collect his payment.

The elderly woman owed him RM 10 and he got mad that the elderly lady did not pay up full and raped her!

The rapist is a Pakistani citizen making a living by selling cloth from house to house.

He said he raped her to teach her a lesson for not paying up!

I am not surprised. during Bangladesh war, Pakistan soldiers are asked by Pak military to f--- all bengali women so that they get bastards. so mst of women refugees who were forced to come to India were pregnant and Indira Gandhi saw to it that doctors were available to take care of such women. - srinivasan

 

[auh]

I think I will have to agree with what biswa has said in post #11 about the carnal instinct being latent in humans.

Some animals are well fed while some others are not. Some even when well fed are capricious. It rears its head in the most opportune moment. Can we say in this backdrop that when we wander in the jungle, it is our mistake not to have taken adequate precautions or to be cautious?

 

[renuka]

I think I will have to agree with what biswa has said in post #11 about the carnal instinct being latent in humans.

If this is true...then we should have females "raping" males too..but we hardly hear a female sexually assaulting a male.

I still feels its more of a dominance factor in play here.

The male feels he can dominate and over power a female into submission.

Its so obvious from the answer of the bloody ^%$#$* Mukesh Singh that he expects a woman to give in and not fight back when being raped.

Its the mindset of a perverted male that just becos he has a dangling appendage that he is entitled to make it swing into action and a female should not resists.'

Its so obvious that a pervert does not have respect for another human.

 

[renuka]

If we place a male and female in close proximity for a long time eventually they might develop feelings for each other and progress into a physical relationship with mutual consent.

Only a pervert would rape.

Actually such perverts give all men a bad name.

I am quite sure that a normal male is not a danger to any woman without her consent.

A normal male accepts No for an answer.

 

[auh]

If we place a male and female in close proximity for a long time eventually they might develop feelings for each other and progress into a physical relationship with mutual consent.

Only a pervert would rape.

Actually such perverts give all men a bad name.

I am quite sure that a normal male is not a danger to any woman without her consent.

A normal male accepts No for an answer.

Very interesting that you said the above.

Yesterday I had posed a situational query to my colleagues - What if you are marooned on an island with girls parading around with not an iota of secrecy to their body. Would you force yourself and give in to your desires? The answer was a strong "No". They cited education, awareness, self-respect, civilization, morality etc in support of their answer.

I said good. Then gave them scenario II - What if you are still marooned on the same island for 3 years with no one to share the bed with (not even once). Would you still have the same mentality as day 0 on the island? They could not give any answer and acknowledged that it would be difficult to give an answer.

Such is human mind.

 

[auh]

If this is true...then we should have females "raping" males too..but we hardly hear a female sexually assaulting a male.

The subject is the male and the object is the female.