India's Daughter... is she?

[prasad1]

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This is a theme which is echoed over and over again during the documentary - it was not a rape, it was a lesson taught for stepping outside the confines of 'Indian culture'. The accused, the lawyer even their families repeat that women should dress, behave, act in a certain way and stay in the confines of home. And if they step out, they are answerable for all that ensues.

"She went out to watch a film with a friend. Is that a crime?" asks the Braveheart's tutor. In India, apparently, it is. This refusal of the Indian society to accept the new, emancipated woman is the subtext that drives this insightful documentary. A long list of experts discuss how rapes, acid attacks, domestic and sexual violence is the result of an India caught between modernity and tradition, patriarchy and the new woman who is breaching the narrow boundaries the society has made for her.

The focus is as much on showing how the accused are the products of their environment - a slum in Delhi where amidst poverty and violence, patriarchy is at its strongest.

The accused thought they had shamed the couple enough. They probably never thought the case will even reach the police. So, despite the deep social chasm that separates them, the way those five men thought is no different from the bizarre comments people in power have expressed about rape victims.

Ironically, this was the case that started the process of shredding that veil of shame. It started that chilly December two years ago when India came out and demanded that women be treated as equals and justice must be delivered. And that debate needs, no asks, to be taken forward because there is no other alternative if we want India's daughters to be respected.

India's Daughter: Why the documentary demands to be seen

 

[vgane]

Understand that the documentary maker Leslee Udwin has flew out of India fearing arrest...Incidentally that rogue rapist deserves the severest punishment...But is rape in India the only issue of the West..Are there no rapes in UK...Why can't the documentary maker go to West and get her interviews from the prisons in UK or California..How about rapes happening within prisons...4% of prison mates are subjected to rape in US...Why no one is raising concern there?

 

[prasad1]

BJP MP Kirron Kher spoke out on the Dec 16 documentary and said that amidst all the controversy, one should not lose focus on the fact that the mindset has to be changed. While speaking in Lok Sabha, she said, "We have to tackle this problem from the grassroot where the mindset is such that you insult women. What is the point of having 'Beti Bachao' when such a mentality exists?"

[video]http://cdnapi.kaltura.com/index.php/extwidget/preview/partner_id/1679921/uiconf_id/23400981/entry_id/0_496hi8mv/embed/dynamic[/video]

 

[prasad1]

It took just one BBC documentary to make me realise that. The media is outraged. Some TV channels have gone on a hyper-drive with #NirbhayaInsulted. Dramatic scenes played out in the Parliament. The Home Minister has banned the documentary. Our honourable MPs are ‘outraged’. Rajya Sabha MP Jaya Bachchan dared the government to hand over one of the Nirbhaya rapists, Mukesh Singh, to the people on the streets.


“A decent girl won't roam around at 9 o'clock at night. A girl is far more responsible for rape than a boy”, says the death row convict Mukesh Singh. Hang him, hang him to death publicly. Make an example out of him. But the act of banning the documentary is akin to smashing the mirror because the mirror said ‘you are the ugliest of all’.


Let’s accept it, we are offended by our own ugliness. We are offended, because a foreigner tells us we have the most sickening patriarchal mind-set in the world.

Misogyny, which we are condemning so vociferously today, is not a crime in India. It is very much a part of our culture and is held close to the heart by most Indians who put up a solid offence against it in public. It is deeply rooted in our psyche, so much so that at times we fail to identify it.

Rape in India is also used as a weapon to “shame” the woman. This is precisely the reason why women are raped in political, communal and social conflicts. This denotes how the society looks at women and it also differentiates the rapes in India with other countries. Thus, the arguments that India is being singled out falls flat. We have a bigger demon within our social structure and we refuse to identify it.


In the documentary Mukesh Singh says, “We wanted to teach her a lesson for breaching social/cultural norms” and “A girl is far more responsible for rape than a boy”. How is Mukesh Singh any different from MP Yogi Adityanath's men who allegedly asked a gathering in UP to “rape the corpses of dead Muslim women?” If you accept the latter and condemn the former, I can only point out at the sheer hypocrisy of this.

Ask yourself. Do you think Mukesh Singh is right - that girls should not be allowed to venture out after dark? Ask your friends, comrades, family. I have personally come across many people who, after making long arguments, eventually settle for the view that women are somewhere to blame and should avoid going out after dark.

Let me ask you again. What is your opinion about a woman who has several consensual relationships with men and enjoys her sexuality? Even if we don’t admit it, I can tell you with precision what is the first word that would have crossed your mind on hearing that question. The reason why we don’t want to watch the documentary is because we don’t want to believe that those rapists think exactly like us.

Ban on Nirbhaya documentary: Let?s accept it, we are offended by our own ugliness | Latest News & Updates at Daily News & Analysis

Majority of people who are so enraged at BBC for this documentary can not handle the TRUTH

 

[renuka]

Nirbhaya has not NOT been insulted by the documentary...in fact its the rapist that has insulted himself by displaying total lack of respect for woman and also the total absence of remorse and he is reflecting the common mindset of many males and females in India.

The blame game is always the name of the game.

The Indian mindset needs to change..a woman is responsible enough to live for herself and even handle her own sexuality.

Having even multiple partners does not mean that she has to give in to sexual demands of a male that she does not desire.

I have noted many Indian males think that "if a women can sleep around why cant she sleep with me"?

The harsh truth is may be the male does not measure up to be in her list of men she sleeps with.

So NO is an answer that the Indian Joe needs to understand..what is so hard to understand NO!

There is a alarming trend of trying to sweep negativity under the carpet and to project a totally problem free society..issues need to be addressed.

Let this documentary been seen by the whole world.

This mindset of males trying to teach females a lesson is also seen in many 3rd world countries that harbour religious extremism.

Let this documentary be a world wide awakening.

Time to Arise and Awake!

 

[kunjuppu]

Nirbhaya has not NOT been insulted by the documentary...in fact its the rapist that has insulted himself by displaying total lack of respect for woman and also the total absence of remorse and he is reflecting the common mindset of many males and females in India.

The blame game is always the name of the game.

The Indian mindset needs to change..a woman is responsible enough to live for herself and even handle her own sexuality.

Having even multiple partners does not mean that she has to give in to sexual demands of a male that she does not desire.

I have noted many Indian males think that "if a women can sleep around why cant she sleep with me"?

The harsh truth is may be the male does not measure up to be in her list of men she sleeps with.

So NO is an answer that the Indian Joe needs to understand..what is so hard to understand NO!

There is a alarming trend of trying to sweep negativity under the carpet and to project a totally problem free society..issues need to be addressed.

Let this documentary been seen by the whole world.

This mindset of males trying to teach females a lesson is also seen in many 3rd world countries that harbour religious extremism.

Let this documentary be a world wide awakening.

Time to Arise and Awake!

right on renus!!!!

 

[kunjuppu]

It took just one BBC documentary to make me realise that. The media is outraged. Some TV channels have gone on a hyper-drive with #NirbhayaInsulted. Dramatic scenes played out in the Parliament. The Home Minister has banned the documentary. Our honourable MPs are ‘outraged’. Rajya Sabha MP Jaya Bachchan dared the government to hand over one of the Nirbhaya rapists, Mukesh Singh, to the people on the streets.


“A decent girl won't roam around at 9 o'clock at night. A girl is far more responsible for rape than a boy”, says the death row convict Mukesh Singh. Hang him, hang him to death publicly. Make an example out of him. But the act of banning the documentary is akin to smashing the mirror because the mirror said ‘you are the ugliest of all’.


Let’s accept it, we are offended by our own ugliness. We are offended, because a foreigner tells us we have the most sickening patriarchal mind-set in the world.

Misogyny, which we are condemning so vociferously today, is not a crime in India. It is very much a part of our culture and is held close to the heart by most Indians who put up a solid offence against it in public. It is deeply rooted in our psyche, so much so that at times we fail to identify it.

Rape in India is also used as a weapon to “shame” the woman. This is precisely the reason why women are raped in political, communal and social conflicts. This denotes how the society looks at women and it also differentiates the rapes in India with other countries. Thus, the arguments that India is being singled out falls flat. We have a bigger demon within our social structure and we refuse to identify it.


In the documentary Mukesh Singh says, “We wanted to teach her a lesson for breaching social/cultural norms” and “A girl is far more responsible for rape than a boy”. How is Mukesh Singh any different from MP Yogi Adityanath's men who allegedly asked a gathering in UP to “rape the corpses of dead Muslim women?” If you accept the latter and condemn the former, I can only point out at the sheer hypocrisy of this.

Ask yourself. Do you think Mukesh Singh is right - that girls should not be allowed to venture out after dark? Ask your friends, comrades, family. I have personally come across many people who, after making long arguments, eventually settle for the view that women are somewhere to blame and should avoid going out after dark.

Let me ask you again. What is your opinion about a woman who has several consensual relationships with men and enjoys her sexuality? Even if we don’t admit it, I can tell you with precision what is the first word that would have crossed your mind on hearing that question. The reason why we don’t want to watch the documentary is because we don’t want to believe that those rapists think exactly like us.

Ban on Nirbhaya documentary: Let?s accept it, we are offended by our own ugliness | Latest News & Updates at Daily News & Analysis

Majority of people who are so enraged at BBC for this documentary can not handle the TRUTH

aye aye air!!!!

 

[zebra16]

Nirbhaya has not NOT been insulted by the documentary...in fact its the rapist that has insulted himself by displaying total lack of respect for woman and also the total absence of remorse and he is reflecting the common mindset of many males and females in India.

The blame game is always the name of the game.

The Indian mindset needs to change..a woman is responsible enough to live for herself and even handle her own sexuality.

Having even multiple partners does not mean that she has to give in to sexual demands of a male that she does not desire.

I have noted many Indian males think that "if a women can sleep around why cant she sleep with me"?

The harsh truth is may be the male does not measure up to be in her list of men she sleeps with.

So NO is an answer that the Indian Joe needs to understand..what is so hard to understand NO!

There is a alarming trend of trying to sweep negativity under the carpet and to project a totally problem free society..issues need to be addressed.

Let this documentary been seen by the whole world.

This mindset of males trying to teach females a lesson is also seen in many 3rd world countries that harbour religious extremism.

Let this documentary be a world wide awakening.

Time to Arise and Awake!

Hard hitting post with excellent points.

1. Have the Malesian Joes understood all about sodomy without a documentary on Anwar Ibrahim by BBC?

2. Have the American Joes understood the exploitation of Men in power without a documentary on Bill Clinton by BBC?

3. Have the French Joes understood the exploitation of men in authority without a documentary on Strauss-Kahn by BBC?

It takes REAL GUTS to look at and admit one's own frailities. And Mukesh is a petty criminal and not Hi-Fi like the other exploiters.

 

[renuka]

Hard hitting post with excellent points.

1. Have the Malesian Joes understood all about sodomy without a documentary on Mahatir Mohammed by BBC?

2. Have the American Joes understood the exploitation of Men in power without a documentary on Bill Clinton by BBC?

3. Have the French Joes understood the exploitation of men in authority without a documentary on Strauss-Kahn by BBC?

It takes REAL GUTS to look at and admit one's own frailities. And Mukesh is a petty criminal and not Hi-Fi like the other exploiters.

Yes I do admit there has been flaws in every system in the world and politicians will remain politicians.

I am sure you are quite aware of this.

Its not about country vs country here..I wrote my post as a human with regards to rape and the mindset of the Indian males...I hope you also read the line where I wrote about the similar mindset of males seen in countries that harbour religious extremism.

So I was not targetting India alone.

Its high time some of us drop being so sensitive and read each post as a personal attack on India without admitting to flaws that need to be rectified.

This is the typical mindset that spells disaster.

This tape will self destruct in 5 seconds!

I know its a Mission Impossible to make anyone with pre conceived notions change their ways.

Yes it take real guts to post this.

 

[tbs]

Nirbhaya has not NOT been insulted by the documentary...in fact its the rapist that has insulted himself by displaying total lack of respect for woman and also the total absence of remorse and he is reflecting the common mindset of many males and females in India.

The blame game is always the name of the game.

The Indian mindset needs to change..a woman is responsible enough to live for herself and even handle her own sexuality.

Having even multiple partners does not mean that she has to give in to sexual demands of a male that she does not desire.

I have noted many Indian males think that "if a women can sleep around why cant she sleep with me"?

The harsh truth is may be the male does not measure up to be in her list of men she sleeps with.

So NO is an answer that the Indian Joe needs to understand..what is so hard to understand NO!

There is a alarming trend of trying to sweep negativity under the carpet and to project a totally problem free society..issues need to be addressed.

Let this documentary been seen by the whole world.

This mindset of males trying to teach females a lesson is also seen in many 3rd world countries that harbour religious extremism.

Let this documentary be a world wide awakening.

Time to Arise and Awake!

hi renu

i saw the documentary completely..........its nothing wrong...its truth....we have to face the truth....in that documentary...

the passers never helped and police came late....even the hotel provided a piece of clothes not anyother help....

there is no human value in the country....

 

[vgane]

 

[vgane]

Is India's daughter safe by banning..A contrarian view!

 

[tks]

I had an opportunity today to watch this documentary in full.
It is well made and educational in its approach since its focus is in properly identifying the root cause.



I do not think it portrayed India in a bad light because it highlighted how millions of ordinary people came together in the aftermath of this tragic crime almost immediately. There is hope in the spirit and force in which they came together. Their voices can never be suppressed and this documentary is but one step in the seismic change that will come about in India soon.


Corrupt politicians, society with minimal or no compassion , corrupt and impotent judicial system, and a large number of cowards in the so called educated sector with feudal beliefs has created an intolerable environment for ordinary women in India.

The hope lies in the fact that there are many who are unwilling to accept the status quo any longer.

Only those clueless steeped in cowardly thinking will not want this documentary to be shown in India because they want to cover up the implications of the root cause.

The Indian media if it is not impotent should have come out with such a documentary. Instead they are more focused on sensational news to feed to the stupid masses in the structured society.

This documentary is not about exposing serious crimes in India only to make India look bad in the world's eyes. Those that think that way have not understood the message of the documentary if they have watched it. If they have not watched it , I would encourage them to do so and then express their opinion. India's honor is not determined by covering up ugly truth but by exposing them so an attitudinal shift can occur.

There are coward men who in the safety of their own environment want to think that a woman does not have the same right as men. These cowards think that women are to protected if they meet their feudal criteria of what is right and wrong. If not it is fair game what happens to those women is their thinking.

I hope such people will be marginalized for their feudal thinking so that positive change can happen as India marches ahead to be a superpower in the world stage. It needs the women in India to unlock its potential. And it should stand for exposing the truth.

There are serious issues in every country and many times it is the media forces in those countries that expose the issues.

I think BBC has done a real service to humanity at large by making this documentary. I hope the Indian media picks up the story and ensures that it is relevant in bringing about positive changes.

 

[கால பைரவன்]

Hard hitting post with excellent points.

1. Have the Malesian Joes understood all about sodomy without a documentary on Anwar Ibrahim by BBC?

2. Have the American Joes understood the exploitation of Men in power without a documentary on Bill Clinton by BBC?

3. Have the French Joes understood the exploitation of men in authority without a documentary on Strauss-Kahn by BBC?

It takes REAL GUTS to look at and admit one's own frailities. And Mukesh is a petty criminal and not Hi-Fi like the other exploiters.

Dear Narayanan,

A crime of such a nature if it happens in foreign country is generally considered an aberration. But if it happens in India, it is taken as a reflection of mindset of people. This is sick generalization and it happens because there are more than enough people who gets easily disgusted when they talk about India and Indians.

Consider this. The guy is a convicted criminal. He is languishing in jail. He has been awarded death penalty. He had nothing to lose. He was paid Rs. 40,000 to give this interview (Reportedly he had asked for Rs. 2 lakhs). It is a perfect opportunity for him to muddy the waters. For media, it is a TRP exercise. For the interviewer, it is a pathway to fame. For the hatemongers, it is a stick to beat the hapless Indians. There is something in it for everyone including the anti death penalty activists.

In the interview, he blames the girl and the other fellow accomplices. He is a hardcore criminal who committed a heinous act. Yet he is easily able to make people think that his criminal act is somehow a fault of the society. There are enough fools out (t)here to toe his line. There is a good chance that he was "coached" to give such an interview. Won't be surprised if he escapes the death penalty in an appeals process as a result of this interview.

As I said, there is something in it for everyone except perhaps the girl's parents and justice.

 

[vgane]

Look at the comments by the defence lawyers...Educated men doing lousy talk..No doubt there is a public revulsion

[h=1]Action against rapists' lawyers? Bar council to meet today[/h]March 06, 2015

---

The derogatory comments about women made by two lawyers in the documentary 'India's Daughter' - banned in India and telecast by the BBC - have sparked outrage.

Fellow lawyers want their licences revoked and people are demanding, in hundreds of posts on social media, that they be punished.ML Sharma and AK Singh are defence lawyers for the four men on death row for brutally gang-raping and killing a 23-year-old medical student in a moving bus in Delhi in December 2012.




Action against rapists' lawyers? Bar council to meet today

 

[renuka]

I just read in the newspapers here that Nirbhaya's father wants the documentary to be aired.

He said that the world needs to know the truth and he also commented about Mukesh Singh saying that "if a man can speak like that in jail imagine what he would say if he was walking free"

 

[auh]

Shri கால பைரவன்,

A crime of such a nature if it happens in foreign country is generally considered an aberration. But if it happens in India, it is taken as a reflection of mindset of people. This is sick generalization and it happens because there are more than enough people who gets easily disgusted when they talk about India and Indians.

You are so true when you say that "a crime of such a nature if it happens in foreign country is generally considered an aberration". I only wish it were true in India. And that is what the documentary is all about. We want to see such crimes as an aberration, in India too. Unfortunately that is a long way off. And I do not say this because I get sick when I mention India.

Consider this. The guy is a convicted criminal. He is languishing in jail. He has been awarded death penalty. He had nothing to lose. He was paid Rs. 40,000 to give this interview (Reportedly he had asked for Rs. 2 lakhs). It is a perfect opportunity for him to muddy the waters.

The question that begs to be answered is "why?". Without a valid motive, the argument is invalid.

A peron who is aware of impending death generally would not lie. If only we were to entertain speculations like the one above without proof, we are entering a vicious circle of logic and we would only be watching all kinds of fantastic conspiracies whizzing around us.

In the interview, he blames the girl and the other fellow accomplices. He is a hardcore criminal who committed a heinous act. Yet he is easily able to make people think that his criminal act is somehow a fault of the society. There are enough fools out (t)here to toe his line. There is a good chance that he was "coached" to give such an interview. Won't be surprised if he escapes the death penalty in an appeals process as a result of this interview.

How do you explain the views of the lawyers who defended him? Are they hardcore criminals too?

Let us not fool ourselves by calling foul in haste.

As I said, there is something in it for everyone except perhaps the girl's parents and justice.

Let us see.

 

[sarang]

In oxford over 250 girls were sexually abused, drugged, blackmailed and terrorize by 5 Pakistanis and 2 Moroccans in the last ten years. The police too did not act on their complaints and sent them away with more abuse. Two recent such cases involving a large number of girls in rotherm and oxford do deserve a documentary and analysis of the perpetrators' mindset.
A convicted criminal will try to justify his crime. Unless the full story of what he said in his defense during interrogation and trial, what he said in the documentary have to be filtered suitably. Possibly even coached.
There is another angle. The NGO that sponsored the doc (not BBC) is connected to Theresa charities. Blaming India as a sick society is the aim of the India bashers.

 

[sarang]

Why and how permission was given by whom is another story. Hope that story too is revealed. They have vanished and not reachable.

 

[sarang]

1. The ministry official who signed permit for the interview is Singh, husband of ndtv's Sonia Singh.
2. Minister shinde says he was not aware of any approval. Normal procedures were violated.
3. The ministry bypassed background checks mandated and allowed the interviewer to proceed.
4. The prisoner was not in prison clothes, another violation.
5. How was the money negotiated and paid? What was paid to others? Why other guilty were not interviewed?
6. Why the juvenile, perhaps a major now, who did the vilest torture was not included in the doc?
7. The govt has sent a legal notice, lawyer tulsi wants the rapists' advocate to be banned.
8. Permission to broadcast was to be taken, but was not done.
There are many breaches of law and agreement. Hope the govt pursues diligently and bring to justice all involved.

 

[prasad1]

The Editors Guild of India on Friday urged the Government to revoke the ban on the film “India's Daughter'' to enable people to view “what is a positive and powerful documentary touching on the freedom, dignity and safety'' of women.

The documentary was aired on BBC's Channel 4 on Thursday evening and has been available online since then despite the Government securing a court injunction on its screening across media platforms in the country.
In a statement, the Guild found no merit in the Government claiming that the film cannot be shown because the subject of the documentary – the Nirbhaya gang rape that shook India in the winter of 2012 – is sub judice. “To raise the issue of sub judice now at the stage of final appeal in the Supreme Court and seek to still discussion is absurd. Judges, particularly in the Supreme Court, are by training and temperament immune to the happenings in the public sphere outside the court, and it is an insult to the Supreme Court to suggest that the airing of the convict's perverted views would tend to interfere with the course of justice.''
Editors Guild wants BBC documentary ban lifted - The Hindu

 

[a-TB]

Supreme courts is sitting on its ass twiddling their thumb on this case. The legislation did not give a damn to pass any new laws until this documentary is ready to air and then they fast track their ban!


There is a sudden sense of shame about what outsiders will think. Should that be the focus?


One of the defense lawyer says there are over 100 sitting MPs that have rape charges against them. Where is the outrage?

 

[a-TB]

1. The ministry official who signed permit for the interview is Singh, husband of ndtv's Sonia Singh.
2. Minister shinde says he was not aware of any approval. Normal procedures were violated.
3. The ministry bypassed background checks mandated and allowed the interviewer to proceed.
4. The prisoner was not in prison clothes, another violation.
5. How was the money negotiated and paid? What was paid to others? Why other guilty were not interviewed?
6. Why the juvenile, perhaps a major now, who did the vilest torture was not included in the doc?
7. The govt has sent a legal notice, lawyer tulsi wants the rapists' advocate to be banned.
8. Permission to broadcast was to be taken, but was not done.
There are many breaches of law and agreement. Hope the govt pursues diligently and bring to justice all involved.

Government is corrupt at all levels. There is nothing to investigate or hold kangaroo court sessions or investigate some leaks.

The real shame is that no new laws have been passed to make it safer for women. Nothing has been done to educate to change attitudes. The only focus seem to be to protect the juvenile whoever he is - that fellow should be prosecuted as a full adult!

Going after rapist's lawyer means nothing - that is just a symptom of a rotten value system.

 

[tbs]

Supreme courts is sitting on its ass twiddling their thumb on this case. The legislation did not give a damn to pass any new laws until this documentary is ready to air and then they fast track their ban!


There is a sudden sense of shame about what outsiders will think. Should that be the focus?


One of the defense lawyer says there are over 100 sitting MPs that have rape charges against them. Where is the outrage?

hi

many politicians have rape/corruption cases....they are not HOLY COW in india....

 

[prasad1]

A crime of such a nature if it happens in foreign country is generally considered an aberration. But if it happens in India, it is taken as a reflection of mindset of people. This is sick generalization and it happens because there are more than enough people who gets easily disgusted when they talk about India and Indians.

I know you are the "DEFENDER" of the "INDIA's HONOR". But this kind of rape in front of public does not happen except in war conditions. Secondly people do not condone the rape by victimizing the victim. One does not hide behind "culture" to insult our mothers and sisters. Just because it was brought out by BBC it is not irrelevant. It is relevant and as long as people like you apologize for the rape and disrespect to women, the culture of degrading women will not change.

A famous heavyweight boxer Mike Tyson's conviction on rape charges in Indianapolis a considerable triumph for women's rights. That was in his hotel room.

Let us talk on the topic with this divisive talk of US VS THEM in every thread. And Indians are not hapless, and there is no India hatemonger here (except in your perception).
Why do we deviate from the topic and bring in extraneous points.

If this documentary was produced by Indian Media with the same zest will it change anything.

I agree with the rest of your post.