Interesting thing in Tamil brahmins!

[Harish23]

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As a Kannnada madhwa brahmin born and raised in Chennai, i've noticed few peculiar differences between Iyers and Iyengars :loco:


Iyers are usually the talkative bunch in a group, easy going and Academically brilliant people whereas the Iyengars usually keep to themselves and of course, intelligent people, too!

I identify myself with Iyengars more though and it has nothing do with me being a vaishnavite.


Share your experiences op2:

PS : Nothing but a fun discussion :amen:

PPS : Whenever someone asks what caste i belong to, i'm always in a fix to answer Iyer OR iyengar.. No one knows whos a madhwa, perhaps because we were busy eating in Mutts

 

[Somayaji.S]

Iyer or Iyengar is NOT a "Surname" like "Dwivedhi"--"Tripaati"---In Tamil(you know Tamil because you were in Chennai) "IYYAN" means "respectable person"--till 11 th Century A.D. all Brahmins were addressed as "Iyyan" only--"Paarpaanai Iyyan Entra Kaalamum Pocchay"(sri.Subramania Bharathi)--"r" vihuthi to give respect to Brahmins was added and Iyyan became Iyyar oe Iyer--Afetr 11 th century A.D. When followers of "Dwaitham" became a seperate group another respectful suffix (Gar)--might have come from Telugu "Gaaru"-- was added to show that they are a seperate group.During the period of Kulotthunga -II sri.Ramanuja was forced to live in Andra for quite a few years--that time only Tiruppathi,Ahobilam all became important Srivaishnava places of worship.--Gaaru became Gar--IYYAN+GARU=IYYANGAARU---During sri.Krishna devaraya period large number of Madwas moved to deep Tamil Nadu and duriKing king Sarfoji time Desastha Kannada/Marathi speaking Madwas moved to Tanjore-- like sarva sri.Narayana Rao--Dhotta Venkata Rao-"Naaradhar" magazine -Editor Srinivasa Rao etc.All Tamil,Telugu,Kannada -Smaartha-Vaishnava-Maadwa -Brahmins were -ALL-called by other caste people in Villages(in Tirunelveli dist) as "IYYAN" only."Iyyan Irukkaraa?--Even in Village Revenue records their names were entered as so and so IYYAN only till 1952..--In one sense tamil,Telugu,kannada--Smaartha,Vaishnava,Choliyar(something in Tirunelveli dist equivalent to Chidhambaram Dheekshadars)--all are IYYAN" only

 

[Harish23]

Yes i know tamil and i have no idea why you posted this :~

I didnt mean to divide anyone on any basis.. sorry if that was what you think i created this thread for

 

[navy-eswaran]

dear harish
don't feel hurt.
sri somayaji was only clarifying things.
it is always good to have different opinions.
as regards eating in mutt. we all have done that:biggrin1:
eswaran

 

[SuryaKasyapa]

Yes i know tamil and i have no idea why you posted this :~

I didnt mean to divide anyone on any basis.. sorry if that was what you think i created this thread for

Sri Harish,

Actually we should have asked you this question on your original message.Why you posted this message ,which does not serve any purpose other than a time-pass for you.
Definitely, it slightly smells of derogatory or sarcastic intent, either intended or not.

Anyway, Shri Somayaji's explanation of how 'Iyengar" derived is a new info to me. Tks Sri Somayaji.


Greetings

 

[Raghy]

Sri.Somayaji,

Thanks for providing the informations. I join Sri.Suryakasyapa in thanking you. I did not come across such information earlier either. It makes sense too!

Cheers!

 

[Raghy]

Sri.Harish said :-

Whenever someone asks what caste i belong to, i'm always in a fix to answer Iyer OR iyengar.. No one knows whos a madhwa, perhaps because we were busy eating in Mutts

Greetings! Busy in eating in mutts? is it so common and easy amoung Mathvas? I did not know! For your information, I have not eaten in a mutt, not even once. Kindly provide informations on how to convert to become a Madhva, please. I would love to eat in mutts (anywhere for that matter, if a nice meal is provided free, I would love to help myself! So far, i have not been that lucky at all ).

Cheers!

 

[AnanthaNarayanan]

iyer or iyengar is not a "surname" like "dwivedhi"--"tripaati"---in tamil(you know tamil because you were in chennai) "iyyan" means "respectable person"--till 11 th century a.d. All brahmins were addressed as "iyyan" only--"paarpaanai iyyan entra kaalamum pocchay"(sri.subramania bharathi)--"r" vihuthi to give respect to brahmins was added and iyyan became iyyar oe iyer--afetr 11 th century a.d. When followers of "dwaitham" became a seperate group another respectful suffix (gar)--might have come from telugu "gaaru"-- was added to show that they are a seperate group.during the period of kulotthunga -ii sri.ramanuja was forced to live in andra for quite a few years--that time only tiruppathi,ahobilam all became important srivaishnava places of worship.--gaaru became gar--iyyan+garu=iyyangaaru---during sri.krishna devaraya period large number of madwas moved to deep tamil nadu and duriking king sarfoji time desastha kannada/marathi speaking madwas moved to tanjore-- like sarva sri.narayana rao--dhotta venkata rao-"naaradhar" magazine -editor srinivasa rao etc.all tamil,telugu,kannada -smaartha-vaishnava-maadwa -brahmins were -all-called by other caste people in villages(in tirunelveli dist) as "iyyan" only."iyyan irukkaraa?--even in village revenue records their names were entered as so and so iyyan only till 1952..--in one sense tamil,telugu,kannada--smaartha,vaishnava,choliyar(something in tirunelveli dist equivalent to chidhambaram dheekshadars)--all are iyyan" only

thanks sir somayaji.
Good information.

 

[RVR]

Sri.Harish said :-



Greetings! Busy in eating in mutts? is it so common and easy amoung Mathvas? I did not know! For your information, I have not eaten in a mutt, not even once. Kindly provide informations on how to convert to become a Madhva, please. I would love to eat in mutts (anywhere for that matter, if a nice meal is provided free, I would love to help myself! So far, i have not been that lucky at all ).

Cheers!

One need not convert to Madhva for taking food at mutt.

I have taken food at `Mantralayam'

SREE RAGHAVENDRA GURU DEVASTANAM

All the best

 

[venkatpasupathy]

Thank You Shri Somayaji. You are absolutely right. Venkat

 

[AnanthaNarayanan]

as a kannnada madhwa brahmin born and raised in chennai, i've noticed few peculiar differences between iyers and iyengars :loco:


Iyers are usually the talkative bunch in a group, easy going and academically brilliant people whereas the iyengars usually keep to themselves and of course, intelligent people, too!

I identify myself with iyengars more though and it has nothing do with me being a vaishnavite.


Share your experiences op2:

Ps : Nothing but a fun discussion :amen:

Pps : Whenever someone asks what caste i belong to, i'm always in a fix to answer iyer or iyengar.. No one knows whos a madhwa, perhaps because we were busy eating in mutts

hi harish
they may have some doubt on u, a brahmin or not....take care next time. In udupi they ask to remove your shirt as it is inside temple.. May have to see the yagnopaveetham? .... In guruvayoor, brahmana samooham in east nadai you have to write your name and gothram before morning 10 o`clock for a wounderful and delicious food (samaaradhana or sadhya) GOOD SERVICE TO ALL BRAHMINS AND THEY RUN AN EXCELLENT LODGING ALSO (NOT FREE -ONE HAS TO PAY A NORMAL RENT TO THE STANDARD)

annam brahmea divya janaath

take it easy- have a nice food


tell them :
Brahmanaa bhojana priyaa.. Other wise brahmanaa bho jana priyaa

 

[nachi naga]

madhwa's rock.
advaithys rock.
dvaithys rock.
v.advaithies rock.
achitha bheda abheda rock.
charavakhans rock.

let's rock and roll together,shambho shiva shambho vasudevaya namaha.

 

[sangom]

annam brahmea divya janaath

Dear Ananthanarayanan,

Greetings. The correct wording is

अन्नम् ब्रह्मॆतिव्यजानात्, (अन्नम् ब्रह्म इति व्यजानात्)

Thanks

 

[kunjuppu]

.... In guruvayoor in brahmana samooham in east nadai you have to write your name and gothram before morning 10 o`clock for a wounderful and delicious food (samaaradhana or sadhya) GOOD SERVICE TO ALL BRAHMINS AND THEY RUN AN EXCELLENT LODGING ALSO (NOT FREE -ONE HAS TO PAY A NORMAL RENT TO THE STANDARD)

annam brahmea divya janaath

take it easy- have a nice food


tell them :
Brahmanaa bhojana priyaa.. Other wise brahmanaa bho jana priyaa

i cannot but feel a sense of pang at reading this. somehow, vaguely and definitely certainly i find this kiind of segregation, particularly practised by what we consider a civilized and educated group of people, painfully embarassing.

i think, hinduism as practised in the past few centuries has driven more people to other waiting willing arms of faiths, with active and indifferent actions from us. if this be so our intention, then let us not moan the declining numbers of hindus, albeit slowly but definitely surely.

 

[nachi naga]

kunju,

i cannot but feel a sense of pang at reading this. somehow, vaguely and definitely certainly i find this kiind of segregation, particularly practised by what we consider a civilized and educated group of people, painfully embarassing.

this is not segregation.its a club,which expects a certain religious behaviour.you may notice this sort of civilised behaviour in toronto,canada also and felt segregated by them.thats becoz tb's are a minority.in such places or countries,a broader hindu brush is used.it's way of practicsng sanathana dharma.

i think, hinduism as practised in the past few centuries has driven more people to other waiting willing arms of faiths, with active and indifferent actions from us. if this be so our intention, then let us not moan the declining numbers of hindus, albeit slowly but definitely surely.

this other faith is a misnomer.its only sanathana dharma which has become classified as distinctive religion in the world.sanathana dharma is flourishing globally albeit a classification or divisions.it's the way human mind works,sooner we accept our shortcomings or as a way,such emotions will never erupt in minds of people.

sanathana = eternal;
dharma = righteous principles akin to ones nature.

if christ is loved by a section of people,it's only a 'ishta devata' principle in practice.

if allah is loved by a section of people,its again 'nirguna brahman' principle working in practice.

we also have shiva as ishta devata,following a et of principle as wayof life.similiarly vishnu is the chosen source for another set of people.

everything is god,as only god loving people only exist,people may give a particular name or form or formless worship,and popularise as per their agendas.

 

[Somayaji.S]

I have NOT said anything about anybody.There was a question
(quote)"PPS : Whenever someone asks what caste i belong to, i'm always in a fix to answer Iyer OR iyengar.. No one knows whos a madhwa, perhaps because we were busy eating in Mutts "(en-quote)

The same problem (Tamil Nadu settled Brahmins for more than 100 years)Telugu,Kannada-Smartha (my colleague Dr.Ramdas),my colleague Dr.Bheema Rao(Marathi Desastha Brahmin),Pattunool(Saurashtra) Brahmins of Madurai (famous Tamil Cine musicisn sri.T.M.Soundararajan) all had.--They all say they are neither "Iyer" nor "Iyengar"--I used to tell them "Iyyan"=(means)"most respectable person" -it only has become Iyer or Iyengar--so they can also add the suffix to their names,since they are also "most respectable persons".

"IYYAN(sriParameswara) Alandha Iru Naazhi (Rice) Kondu,Andamellam Uyya Vaitthaai"(Abhirami Andhaadhi)

In Madurai,Tirunelveli,Ramnad Districts,--Mukkulathor(Kallar,Maravar,Agamudiar) always used to call Brahmins as "IYYAN" only.--Sundaram Iyyan(my uncle)--Somaasi Iyyan( my another uncle--Somayaji itself is a suffix which became Somaasi and one more extra suffix Iyyan)

In Telugu Iyyan has metamorphosed as "Iyya"--Sithrama Iyya--sir.Mokshkundam Visvesvara Iyya(he is a Telugu Mulakanadu Brahmin.His ancestors settled in Mysore 100 years before.IYYA later became IYYALU,Iyyavaaru,Iyyalugaaru etc--(sri.Yegna Narayana Iyyalu was a very famous Telugu Cinema Story and script writer of the films Keelu Gurram,Chintamani etc

 

[sangom]

I used to tell them "Iyyan"=(means)"most respectable person" -it only has become Iyer or Iyengar--so they can also add the suffix to their names,since they are also "most respectable persons".

"Ayyan", "Ayyangar", "Ayyar", whatever may be the appellation, it became a mere 'surname' by the time we got independence. The other castes were rather forced or compelled to show outwardly respect to the brahmins because, in the course of time, many brahmins became landowners, zamindars, and powerful officials either under the royalty and/or the British Govt. and had little else to command respect from others. Now when these same people (other castes) address us as "ayyaa!", "ayyare!", etc., there is no trace at all of any respect arising out of the "most-respectable-persons" feeling; it is simply a surname or a caste name for them, even if you don't officially have those surname/s.

As regards Kunjuppu's remarks, I feel we have also to look into the legal point as to whether the Udippi Matt, Guruvayur Brahmin Association, etc. are constrained to feed only brahmins as a result of some gift deeds, endowments, etc., before pronouncing a view.

 

[SALEM]

Thanks to Somayaji for new thought, and you are right. s.r.k.

 

[AnanthaNarayanan]

i cannot but feel a sense of pang at reading this. somehow, vaguely and definitely certainly i find this kiind of segregation, particularly practised by what we consider a civilized and educated group of people, painfully embarassing.

i think, hinduism as practised in the past few centuries has driven more people to other waiting willing arms of faiths, with active and indifferent actions from us. if this be so our intention, then let us not moan the declining numbers of hindus, albeit slowly but definitely surely.

Kunjuppu sir,



ACTUALY THE UDUPI AND GURUVAYOOR CAME IN THE POST TO TELL, MR HARIS, THAT THERE IS NO ABNORMALITY IF ANY BODY ASKS - B OR NB? AND THERE IS NO INTENSION TO UNDERMINE BRAHMINS OR HINDUISM.

REMOVING SHIRTS ARE COMMON WHILE ENTERING IN ANY TEMPLE IN KERALA AND SOME OTHER PLACES TOO. WHILE TAKING FOOD WITH LEARNED VEDA BRAHMINS(VAIDHEEKAS) GENERALY THERE WILL BE SOME PROCEEDURE, THAT WE ALL KNOWS AND THAT TOO INSIDE THE TEMPLE ANEX HALLS , ONE WILL NORMALLY REMOVES HIS SHIRT,IF REQUIRE MAY USE YOGAVASTHRAM OR TOWEL ETC.

AND WRITING, JUST LIKE REGISTRATION ONES NAME& GOTHRAM IN THE REGISTER,I THINK THERE IS NOTHING WRONG IN MY OPENION. IT GIVES THE DATA FOR THEM TO PREPARE THE FOOD BEFORE 12 NOON. MORE OVER AS THEY HAVE TO SUM UP NO OF DEVOTIES AND EXPENSES INCURED FOR THE DAY TO ANSWER THE COMMITTEE OR TRUST. IN GURUVAYOOR BS, DAILY THERE ARE 100S ABOVE PEOPLE WHO PARTICIPATES IN THE FEAST. MANY OUT STN BRAHMINS WHO TAKE PART IN IT REGULARLY, WHEN EVER THEY VISIT GURUVAYOOR.GBS ARE DOING IT AS A SERVICE. IN FRONT OF LORD AYYAPA BAJAN HALL (LIKE SASTHA PREETHY)

ALSO THERE IS ANNADHANAM IN THE GURUVAYOOR KRISHNA TEMPLE WHO IS THE OWNER OF MORE THAN 60 ABOVE ELEPHANTS AND GIVING FOOD AND PROTECTION TO 1000 AND 1000S OF PEOPLES IN DEMOCRATIC WAY, WHO WORK THERE WITH DEVASWAM NO BARRIER ON CASTE OR CREED AND RELIGION.

MORE OVER ALL MOST ALLTHE MAJOR TEMPLES DOING ANNADHANAM.

I THINK GBS HAS STARTED GIVING,HOT DRINKING WATER(CHUKKU VELLAM)FOR TEMPLE DEVOTIES ABOUT 10 YEARS BACK AND THEY BUILT THE SANKARA NILAYAM GUEST HOUSE OF 24 ROOMS WITH THE FECILITIES OF COMMUNITY HALL AND A KITCHEN FOR CONVEENIG SMALL FUNCTIONS. THESE ALL DONE BY THE BLESSINGS OF HH OF KANCHI MUTT SRI JAYENDRA SARASWATHY SWAMIGAL, INITIALLY THEY GOT SUPPORT FROM OUT SIDE TO CONTINUE THE ANNADHANAM. NOW HOPEFULLY THEY ARE IN THERE OWN LEGS.

BEFORE THERE IS BRAHMAN BHOJAM IN MANY TEMPLE AND IT WAS REMOVED OR REDUCED BY DEMNOCRY. NOW ALSO IT IS THERE, BUT LIMITED. AS VAZH1PAD( OFFERING IN THE TEMPLE ).IN MOST TEMPLE IN KERALA AND IN TN THERE IS FOOD SERVED FOR DEVOTIES.

BUT WE HAVE TO UNDER STAND .I THINK I CAN SAY WE BRAHMINS AS AWHOLE GIVEN EVERY THING TO THE COUNTRY OR AS SAID BY THE RULE OF THE TIME. SAY FOR EXAMPLE INKERALA WE SHED ALL THE LAND TO LAND LORD OF PRESENT TIME. IS IT NOT DEMOCRACY THAT WE NEVER UTTERED ANY WORD( OR OUR INABLITY TO FIGHT), JUST CELEAR THE PLACE AND GONE. D`NT KNOW WHAT WILL HAPPEN NEXT DAY. I AM NOT GOING TO DIG THE PAST ON THE LAND REFORMS OF KERALA.

ONLY ENGLISH TYPING AND SHORT HAND HELP A LOT OF PEOPLE GOT JOBS ELSE WHERE IN INDIA TO GET THE NAME AS MADRASI. ARE WE NOT MOVEING WITH MASS IN ALL PLACES? , ARE WE NOT IN THE Q? EVERY WHERE AND FOR ANY THING……

WE ARE VERY MUCH A SOCIAL AND CIVILISED AND DEMOCRATIC PEOPLE IN INDIA OR ANY WHERE IN THE WORLD.

AND INFACT EVERYBODY HAVING THERE OWN PRIVATE GATHERING OR HAPPINESS TO SHARE WITH SAME CULTURED PEOPLE. COMMON ON LANGUAGE AND HABITS, CUSTOM AND PRACTICE. IF THEY GATHER OR DOING SOME SERVICE TO THERE ‘OWN’ COMMUNITY MEMEBRS , I DON`T THINK THERE IS ANY THING WORNG IN IT.

WE CAN SEE THERE IS NSS ,SNDP AND MAY OTHERS DOING SERVICE TO THERE COMMUNITY IN KERALA . THEY HAVE BRANCHES ALL MOST ALL PLACE IN THE WORLD.MAKING ANNUAL BUDGETS IN BILLIONS. (WE ARE HAPPY TO SEE THEM IN GOOD, STILL WE WILL NOT LEARN) WHY THEY ALL STARTED LIKE THIS?

WE TOO HAVE TBC AND ******* AND KERALABRAHMAN SABHA WHY ?

WHEN ONE IS NOT SUFFICIENT OR NOT COVERING OR REACHING TO ALL THE COMMUNITY MEMBERS, … IT WILL BE REPLACED BY ANOTHER ONE OR A NEW ONE IS COMMING THAT IS ALL.

IF THE PUBLIC AUTHORITY OR GOVT FULL FILLS THE COMMON JUSTICE TO ALL . THEN THESE ALL GROUP WILL LOOSE ITS IMPORTANCE.

AUM SHANTHI AUM

WILL GET MORE AND PRECISE INFO FROM BLOW LINKS:-

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pattars/message/5762

mytvm.wordpress.com/.../guruvayoor-sankara-nilayam-guest-house-2/ - Cached

krspalakkad.spaces.live.com/.../cns!894FC8FB47A0271F!1993.entry - Cached

JUST SEE BELOW LINK:- THE FATE OF KASHMIRI PANDITS

Displaced Kashmiri Pandits seek special status

New Delhi, June 20
Over 150 Kashmiri Pandits, along with members of civil society, held a silent protest at the Jantar Mantar here Sunday and demanded that the government recognise them as internally displaced persons (IDPs). http://www.prokerala.com/news/articles/a145004.html

 

[AnanthaNarayanan]

dear ananthanarayanan,

greetings. The correct wording is

अन्नम् ब्रह्मॆतिव्यजानात्, (अन्नम् ब्रह्म इति व्यजानात्)

thanks

sangom ji
thanks for correction. Actually my intension to show annam is superior to brahman ( in that situation only)
don`t know whether it got correct meaning or not.
Thanks again
ananth

 

[sangom]

sangom ji
thanks for correction. Actually my intension to show annam is superior to brahman ( in that situation only)
don`t know whether it got correct meaning or not.
Thanks again
ananth

This line from the Taittiriyopanishad means "annam is brahman". Surely nothing can be superior to brahman, in advaita, as you know. It was in context, according to me.

 

[kunjuppu]

ananthu,

thank you for your detailed posting.

there is no harm in having community groups, to do good and upbring the community.

when it comes to religion, it is a different story, and this is where wrongs in the past have been done, with brahmins, whether they instigated or not, at the top of the totem pole.

to give up those inherited privileges, is the right thing to do. it is not sacrifice. but undoing past wrongs. current society we as brahmins have been forced to equality, and some would say, less than equality.

let us move on.

 

[sashikala]

I saw the different opinions about eating in a mutt.I am chennaite settled in bangalore for thr last 27 years and prefer to eat clean vegetarian food always . I am used to visiting temples with family (even while my children were a few months old). My husband a very sociable person and me a shy reserved one used to find the mutts the best place to stay and eat.(economical and food being offered to god (neivedyam)spiritually charged.)I have eaten in udupi mutt during diwali ,The swamiji himself told us that we could eat eat in the mutt seeing our two children and in raghotaswami mutt in thirukoilur which we visited by chance during the aradhana celebration of swamiji and my god the varieties of seets that were offered, my children enjoyed more than us. we have also visited tapovanam several times and eaten there also. as i am geeting older i have now realised how lucky i have been to have had the opputunity of staying and partaking the prasadam. these are are just a few to name.One has to feel the divinity and and you will be invited to the lunch hall.
Hare ram

 

[srikrish85]

Dear All,
I'd rather go to a Gurdwara and get into the langar hall...

just for fun only

Cheers

 

[kariyer]

It is considered to be a prasadam when you eat in a mutt. Sringeri mutt has a huge kitchen and and they serve both lunch and dinner. It is really godsend to have such meal when you travel to these areas,where the food provided by the private hotels are unhygenic.