Is as it justified to term the Muslims as extremists?

[prasad1]

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Ben Affleck, Bill Maher, Nicholas Kristol,Michael Steele, and author Sam Harris got into what could only be described as a tumultuous continuation of Maher’s comments on Islam from last week, with Maher and Affleck tearing into each other over the influence of fundamentalists in the Muslim community.
“We have been sold this meme of Islamophobia, where criticism of the religion gets conflated with bigotry towards muslims as people,” Harris began. “It’s intellectually ridiculous.”
“Hold on — are you the person who officially understands the codified doctrine of Islam?” Affleck, on the show to promote his movie Gone Girl, interrupted, and argued that criticizing Islam, as Maher and Harris were doing it, was “gross and racist. It’s like saying, ‘Oh, you shifty Jew!’”
What follows is a few minutes of Affleck and Maher going at each other and yelling over each other, with the occasional interjection from Kristol and Steele providing intelligent perspective on reformers in the Muslim world, smart statistical analysis from Harris about the spectrum of fundamentalism, and then another few minutes of Affleck and Maher yelling at each other.
[video=youtube;vln9D81eO60]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vln9D81eO60[/video]

 

[prasad1]

Have you heard that Islam is a peaceful religion because most Muslims live peacefully and that only a "tiny minority of extremists" practice violence? That's like saying that White supremacy must be perfectly fine since only a tiny minority of racists ever hurt anyone. Neither does it explain why religious violence is largely endemic to Islam, despite the tremendous persecution of religious minorities in Muslim countries.
In truth, even a tiny minority of "1%" of Muslims worldwide translates to 15 million believers - which is hardly an insignificant number. However, the "minority" of Muslims who approve of terrorists, their goals, or their means of achieving them is much greater than this. In fact, it isn't even a true minority in some cases, depending on how goals and targets are defined.
The following polls convey what Muslims say are their attitudes toward terrorism, al-Qaeda, Osama bin Laden, the 9/11 attacks, violence in defense of Islam, Sharia, honor killings, and matters concerning assimilation in Western society. The results are all the more astonishing because most of the polls were conducted by organizations with an obvious interest in "discovering" agreeable statistics that downplay any cause for concern.

Sharia (Islamic Law)​

83% of Pakistanis support stoning adulterers
78% of Pakistanis support killing apostates
Pakistan: New Poll Shows 78 Percent of Pakistanis Support Death Penalty for Leaving Islam :: Responsible for Equality And Liberty (R.E.A.L.)
Center for Social Cohesion: 40% of British Muslim students want Sharia
WikiLeaks: 1 in 3 British Muslim students back killing for Islam, 40% want Sharia law | Daily Mail Online
http://www.socialcohesion.co.uk/pdf/IslamonCampus.pdf
ICM Poll: 40% of British Muslims want Sharia in the UK
Poll reveals 40pc of Muslims want sharia law in UK - Telegraph
GfK NOP: 28% of British Muslims want Britain to be an Islamic state
http://www.civitas.org.uk/pdf/ShariaLawOrOneLawForAll.pdf
NOP Research: 68% of British Muslims support the arrest and prosecution of anyone who insults Islam;
Many British Muslims Put Islam First - CBS News
WebCite query result
MacDonald Laurier Institute: 62% of Muslims want Sharia in Canada (15% say make it mandatory)
Strong support for Shariah in Canada | Canada | News | Toronto Sun
Much good news and some worrying results in new study of Muslim public opinion in Canada | Macdonald-Laurier Institute
World Public Opinion: 81% of Egyptians want strict Sharia imposed in every Islamic country
76% of Pakistanis want strict Sharia imposed in every Islamic country
49% (plurality) of Indonesians want strict Sharia imposed in every Islamic country
76% of Moroccans want strict Sharia imposed in every Islamic country
http://www.worldpublicopinion.org/pipa/pdf/feb09/STARTII_Feb09_rpt.pdf
World Public Opinion: 64% of Egyptians said it was “very important for the government” to “apply traditional punishments for crimes such as stoning adulterers.”
http://www.worldpublicopinion.org/pipa/pdf/feb09/STARTII_Feb09_rpt.pdf
Pew Research (2010): 77% of Egyptian Muslims favor floggings and amputation
58% of Jordanian Muslims favor floggings and amputation
36% of Indonesian Muslims favor floggings and amputation
82% of Pakistanis favor floggings and amputation
65% of Nigerian Muslims favor floggings and amputation
Muslim Publics Divided on Hamas and Hezbollah | Pew Research Center's Global Attitudes Project
Pew Research (2010): 82% of Egyptian Muslims favor stoning adulterers
70% of Jordanian Muslims favor stoning adulterers
42% of Indonesian Muslims favor stoning adulterers
82% of Pakistanis favor stoning adulterers
56% of Nigerian Muslims favor stoning adulterers
Muslim Publics Divided on Hamas and Hezbollah | Pew Research Center's Global Attitudes Project
Pew Research (2013): 72% of Indonesians want Sharia to be law of the land
Seventy-Two Percent of Indonesian Muslims Favor Shariah Law: Pew Forum - The Jakarta Globe
Pew Research (2013): 81% of South Asian Muslims and 57% of Egyptians suport amputating limbs for theft.
http://www.pewforum.org/uploadedFil...ims-religion-politics-society-full-report.pdf
Pew Research (2013): According to an interpretation of this study, approximately 45% of Sharia supporters surveyed disagreed with the idea that Islamic law should apply only to Muslims.
http://www.pewforum.org/uploadedFil...ims-religion-politics-society-full-report.pdf
Economist (Pew 2013): 74% who favor Islamic law in Egypt say it should apply to non-Muslims as well.
http://www.economist.com/blogs/graphicdetail/2013/04/daily-chart-20?fsrc=scn/tw/te/dc/Shariadolikeit
WZB Berlin Social Science Center: 65% of Muslims in Europe say Sharia is more important than the law of the country they live in.
Six Country Immigrant Integration Comparative Survey (SCIICS) | WZB
Europe: Islamic Fundamentalism is Widespread



Muslim Opinion Polls - Challenging the 'Tiny Minority of Extremists' Myth


I do not have any personal Muslim friends (By choice). I know not all Muslims are terrorists. India is a multi-religion society. Average Indian Muslim is Indian before anything else. But these statistics are worrying.

 

[renuka]

I do not have any personal Muslim friends (By choice). I know not all Muslims are terrorists. India is a multi-religion society. Average Indian Muslim is Indian before anything else. But these statistics are worrying.

Dear Prasad ji,

You actually have no Muslim personal friend?

I find that hard to imagine...what about /school days/college days..your group of friends in your younger days?

 

[krish44]

Most keep away from those belonging to other religions.

In my case, I was forced to come in close contact with many as I spent 10 years in bhopal and hyderabad , cities with a large muslim presence.

I had a muslim landlord in hyderabad.

My love for ghazals and sufi music exposed me more to muslim way of life as it is practised in india.

I have seen hindu-muslim riots -their effects in delhi after partition and the clashes in hyderabad in seventies .

at a personal level , one can relate if sees them as humans having the same feelings as hindus or any other religion for that matter.

what is likeable about their religion is the spirit of equality and brotherhood it preaches. .only it is a very intolerant religion treating nonbelievers harshly.

 

[vgane]

Sunnis are much more violent than the other sects of Muslims...Also they are united by Religion rather than for any other reasons...The males prefer to keep their women under Purdah..In TN in the 80's & 90's you will not see Purdahs so much.. Now 99% are under veil...That means they are subjugating women to their diktats...Surprisingly educated women are also forced by their males to follow hijab..A sort of social isolation of their women...

 

[sarang]

Gnanam can come at any time or age. Better late than never. Many leaders in the past, rajaji, ambedkar and many more, realized this; modern leaders including mamata know this from first hand experience, but secular credentials and pseudo samadarshana make them myopic.

What happened to hindus and non muslims in kashmir, pakistan, bangladesh, afganistan and some pockets in india must stimulate the grey cells of those who want to live a sanatana dharmic lifestyle.

I do not have any personal Muslim friends (By choice). I know not all Muslims are terrorists. India is a multi-religion society. Average Indian Muslim is Indian before anything else. But these statistics are worrying.

 

[krish44]

the status of women in muslim communities could be better. more are being forced into purdah. their personal law -sharia is not generous in treating of females.it has

barbourous punishments such as stoning, amputation and the like.

their ladies have to put up with a lot at the hands of men. they have talaq divorce which is easy and men can have upto four wives. marriage is just a contract with easy

separation rules.

 

[sarang]

what is likeable about their religion is the spirit of equality and brotherhood it preaches. .only it is a very intolerant religion treating nonbelievers harshly.

What an astute observation after exposure to happenings in Syria, iraq, turkey, Iran, afganistan and Pakistan.

 

[renuka]

I think before anyone starts throwing stones on a person of a different religion..one should start questioning himself/herself.."am I fit enough to even pick up a stone?"

There is no use harboring dislike for any one religion..it makes one no different from the person we dislike.

Any problem faced needs to be solved logically and legally without sentiments.

After all every religion has flaws..some complain that a Muslim woman is forced to wear a Purdah but at the same time some regions in India disallowed a lower caste woman to wear an upper cloth to cover her breasts...this led to the Channar Revolt in Kerala where lower caste women fought for their rights to cover themselves.

So no one religion is innocent.

I think it's time to let go of the stones and pick up a boomerang..it always return to sender.

 

[sarang]

In Kashmir elements started throwing stones at army soon after rescue from flood. Worst crime is to be blinded by pseudo secularism to condone heinous activities.

I think before anyone starts throwing stones on a person of a different religion..one should start questioning himself/herself.."am I fit enough to even pick up a stone?"

There is no use harboring dislike for any one religion..it makes one no different from the person we dislike.

Any problem faced needs to be solved logically and legally without sentiments.

After all every religion has flaws..some complain that a Muslim woman is forced to wear a Purdah but at the same time some regions in India disallowed a lower caste woman to wear an upper cloth to cover her breasts...this led to the Channar Revolt in Kerala where lower caste women fought for their rights to cover themselves.

So no one religion is innocent.

I think it's time to let go of the stones and pick up a boomerang..it always return to sender.

 

[renuka]

Worst crime is to be blinded by pseudo secularism to condone heinous activities.

One takes hates along with him to his grave..where does this hate finally go?

It follow him again in his next life..with hatred we go on creating Karma which results in a never ending cycle of hate.

We do not need eyes to see love becos love is felt and it need not be seen..but for hatred we need eyes becos hatred needs to be seen only then it can be felt.

Its better to be blind at least we cant see hate.

 

[krish44]

There is a nice hindi film 'Hyder' released ladt week . it depicts the conditions in kashmir at the height of militancy in 1990-95.

many of the sequences there were based on real life incidents.

the way the indian state handled the situation unleashing terror on the citizens at large would make anyones repugnant

the citizen there would take a long time to forget what happened there.

people are alienated and get turned off when they see the army .they have seen its brutal face.

whatever good they do there , kashmiris are unable to forget what happened .

most hindus[pandits] and muslims have lost close family members . they still live in shock and trauma of ill treatment

unless there is messiah talking the language of love emerges, things are unlikely to change

a new generation brought up in a new atmosphere of freedom will emerge to change things on the ground.

we can only hope for the best

 

[JR]

I studied in a Muslim college in Chennai, and came quite in contact with many Muslims (girls). Overall they kept to themselves, never mingled much with Hindus, but at a given chance, made fun of us. We Brahmins being few (in the class), joined together in a 'gang', and one other Muslim girl who I thought to be quite nice once remarked to me that the Muslim girls had named us to be 'Thayir Saadha gumbal'. It used to be quite pathetic to watch all these Modern Muslim girls from extremely affluent families take-off their parda quickly as soon as they reached college and apply a fresh coat of 'lipstick' and makeup and wear Western clothes at any college event.

After 9/11 happened, all these Muslim cleriks who go up to the level of issuing a 'fatwa' at the drop of the hat, why none of them came forward and sent their apology, as a community?

My perception is that only we Hindus are broad-minded to the point we stand-up for Muslims even in Hindu forums as these, but when given a chance, vast majority of Muslims won't support Hindus even if we have justice by our side.

 

[prasad1]

Asserting that the problem of terrorism in India was imported, President Pranab Mukherjee has said indigenous terrorist activity was "extremely negligible" with hardly any involvement of the 150 million Muslims of the country.


"Of course there may be one or two out of hundred fifty million but all of these are imported. These are coming from outside. Indigenous terrorist activity in India is extremely negligible and whenever such signs are visible we take appropriate steps," he said in interviews to the Norwegian media ahead of his two-day state visit to Norway.


Mukherjee said terrorism has no respect for religion or borders with no ideology or their only ideology is wanton destruction and total negation of human values.


"Nobody should say terrorism indulged by A is good and terrorism indulged by B is bad. Good terrorists, bad terrorists - these types of classification, to my mind, are meaningless," Mukherjee said.


The president said the country has been fortunate as hardly any among the 150 million Muslims - second largest population after Indonesia - indulges in terrorism.


He said terrorism must be fought and should not be indulged in any form. "That is the only way you can handle the terrorism," he said.
Hardly any Indian Muslim indulges in terrorism: President Pranab Mukherjee | Latest News & Updates at Daily News & Analysis

 

[prasad1]

Senior Pakistani Taliban leaders pledge allegiance to Islamic State
Pakistani Taliban spokesman Shahidullah Shahid and five other senior leaders pledged their allegiance to the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria, according to news reports on Tuesday (ET, Dawn). In addition to Shahid, allegiance was sworn by the Taliban's leaders in the Orakzai tribal region, the Khyber and Khurram Agencies, and the towns of Peshawar and Hangu. In a statement sent to media outlets and posted online Shahid said: "I declare allegiance to the Caliph of Muslims, Amirul Momineen Abu Bakar al Baghdadi al Qarshi al Hussaini. I will listen and follow his every instruction whatever the situation may have been. This allegiance is neither from the TTP [Taliban] or its leader Maulvi Fazlullah. This is only from me and five leaders." Shahid added that Fazlullah supported the Islamic State, but had not sworn allegiance to the militant group.

 

[Jaykay767]

How is this thread not banned so far ?? clearly, there isa deliberate attack on a specific religion & portray the entire communityin a bad light, against the forum rules !!

Sarang – Please read both sides of the story. Our armyhas indulged in many atrocities against Kashmiri’s incl. rape, molestation etc… in the last 60+ yrs, that’s why there isa deep seated anger !!

Wow, it is amazing to see how people are singing &supporting the right wing ideas suddenly with the new dispensation coming topower !!

 

[sarang]

Fortunately there is no right wing or left wing for hindus. They have faced muslim and british invasion in the past, and have survived intact holding on to their time honoured traditions. Now too, there are enough to face any onslaught and resist religious and cultural invasion, especially the jihadi kind. It is really amusing to see a few blind to what is happening in kashmir, pakistan, bangla desh. Russia, UK, france are already facing the heat, and have woken up.

Let us see what happened to USA, and what jefferson had to face. Some excerpts from the wiki art, link at the end for full story.

The First Barbary War (1801–1805), also known as the Tripolitan War or the Barbary Coast War, was the first of two wars fought between the United States and the Northwest African Berber Muslimstates known collectively as the Barbary States. These were the Ottoman provinces of Tripoli,Algiers, and Tunis, which were enjoying a large autonomy, as well as the independent Sultanate of Morocco.[SUP][1][/SUP] The war was fought because U.S. President Thomas Jefferson refused to pay the high tributes demanded by the Barbary states and because they were seizing American merchant ships and enslaving the crews for high ransoms. It was the first military conflict authorized by Congress that the United States fought on foreign land and seas.

American diplomatic action with Algeria, the other major Barbary Coast state, was much less successful than with Morocco. Algeria began piracy against the U.S. on 25 July 1785 with the capture of the schooner Maria, and Dauphin a week later.[SUP][8][/SUP] All four Barbary Coast states demanded $660,000 each. However, the envoys were given only an allocated budget of $40,000 to achieve peace

In March 1785, Thomas Jefferson and John Adams went to London to negotiate with Tripoli's envoy, Ambassador Sidi Haji Abdrahaman (or Sidi Haji Abdul Rahman Adja). When they enquired "concerning the ground of the pretensions to make war upon nations who had done them no injury", the ambassador replied:

It was written in their Koran, that all nations which had not acknowledged the Prophet were sinners, whom it was the right and duty of the faithful to plunder and enslave; and that every mussulman who was slain in this warfare was sure to go to paradise. He said, also, that the man who was the first to board a vessel had one slave over and above his share, and that when they sprang to the deck of an enemy's ship, every sailor held a dagger in each hand and a third in his mouth; which usually struck such terror into the foe that they cried out for quarter at once.[SUP][21][/SUP]
​

Jefferson reported the conversation to Secretary of Foreign Affairs John Jay, who submitted the Ambassador's comments and offer to Congress.

First Barbary War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Jaykay767]

One can either live in the past, or move ahead & forge peace with our neighbors, so that we can focus on development & prosperity!

Every race conquered the other weak kingdoms, ransacked them on any and all pretexts! so there are no angels if you go back & analyze the history of our wars !

So it is better to collaborate with Pakistan & work towards peace instead of vitiating the atmosphere further by such aggressive actions !!

 

[sarang]

New Nightmare from the East Threatens India

[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Present govt's terror monitoring and terror busting teams have been given a free hand to locate and eliminate terrorists, will not be wishy-washy as in the previous regime. Prnanb dada is still a congress politician and has to make politically correct statements; if he has nation's life in his heart, he must raise his voice on jihadi terrorist activities and warn the nation to be alert and fight. It is a surprise he does not know what is happening in his native village he visited to do puja last week.[/FONT]

[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]NEW DELHI and KOLKATA: Through the smoke and fumes of the exploded bombs of Burdwan has emerged a chilling silhouette of that defines a new cartography of terror.[/FONT]

The raid unearthed documents similar to the jihadi material, which was partially burnt by the terror widows Raziya Bibi and Amina Bibi. Subsequent arrests and scrutiny of the call records of the terrorists unravels the strategy of Al-Qaeda and JMB in India to create Islamist terror modules in West Bengal to carry out attacks across the country; in Uttar Pradesh and Jammu and Kashmir.

South Asian Terrorism Portal (SATP) reveals at least one terrorism-related arrest or swoop down happens every month in West Bengal. Since January this year, at least 39 terror related incidents has been reported in the state, superseding the Red menace.

Central intelligence agencies who carried out investigations in various places in Burdwan district have collected evidences of a “multi-nation terror module” and exchange programmes between Islamic terror outfits of India and Bangladesh.

The ISI’s plan, going back two years, was to infiltrate TMC, gain the support of Muslim population in West Bengal through Jamaat and get trained terrorists from Bangladesh to go on missions.

http://www.newindianexpress.com/thesundaystandard/New-Nightmare-from-the-East-Threatens-India/2014/10/12/article2473132.ece

 

[sarang]

One can either live in the past, or move ahead & forge peace with our neighbors, so that we can focus on development & prosperity!

One must live and breathe before worrying about prosperity. Refusal to see threat to life and dharma in today's world with news and pictures pouring in from all quarters is the hall mark of a person who has no respect for his family's and country's well being.

Today UN has refused to intervene in kashmir, and has advised pakistan to approach india with a right frame of mind - friendly and non aggressive.

 

[JR]

One can either live in the past, or move ahead & forge peace with our neighbors, so that we can focus on development & prosperity!

Every race conquered the other weak kingdoms, ransacked them on any and all pretexts! so there are no angels if you go back & analyze the history of our wars !

So it is better to collaborate with Pakistan & work towards peace instead of vitiating the atmosphere further by such aggressive actions !!

Dear Sir

You said that every race ransacked their captors -- can you show an example of Hindu kings having done so?

Muslims not only ransack, rape and murder innocent civilians, they do the most inhumane 'decapitation'. In the recent past, they captured several Indian soldiers from the border and decapitated them.

In the past too, they decapitated Hindus who fought bravely against them in the war. No other civilization has done this. How can someone support a civilization that supports this.

Also, can you reply to post #13 where I raised the important question of why is it that no muslim clergy up to this date, ever apologized for 9/11 as a community?

 

[sarang]

Get real Islamabad – Kashmir was never yours

\Chitra subramaniam is the journalist who exposed the bofors deal and rajiv gandhi's part in the corrupt deal. She ran a long crusade through 'the hindu' in association with ram. Now pakistan must forget kashmir and work for development and prosperity as advised by its friends.

Chitra Subramaniam | The News Minute | August 13, 2014 |

Pakistan can seek to “internationalise” the Kashmir issue, but the reality is nobody cares, especially since its extremist credentials stand exposed. Firings on the border will increase as desperation sets in and innocent lives are lost on both sides, but by harbouring terrorists and fanning terrorism, Islamabad may have just exhausted that last drop of goodwill.
Kashmir was never a part of Pakistan and the UNGA has not recognized it as disputed territory. The international body got involved in the region following hostilities that broke out between the two countries following the partition of India in 1947. The UN clearly recognized that the fighting was led by Pakistan and under a scheme proposed by the international body, Kashmiris were allowed to vote which side they want to accede. The UN calls for a vote, but before that it calls all Pakistani troops to vacate the occupied areas.

Till recently, India’s foreign policy was very sensitive to Pakistan and during a period thought of nothing else but Islamabad to the detriment of other countries. Now there is some movement in New Delhi which may not fall into known patterns leading to new thinking. It is too soon to take a call, but Islamabad must surely recognize that governments may have seen through it including the Talibanisation of the country about which Malala Yousoufzai spoke very eloquently as she received her Nobel Peace Prize last week.

Get real Islamabad ? Kashmir was never yours

 

[renuka]

So it is better to collaborate with Pakistan & work towards peace instead of vitiating the atmosphere further by such aggressive actions !!

I read somewhere that War is an instrument of Justice. Dont know how far that is true..becos its depends who uses the Instrument.

One can surely foster peace with anyone and even Love thy neighbour but always remain alert towards the loving neighbour's mood swings.

A Nation should "Forgive" but there is no harm storing some "Memory" in the data base so that one doesnt "Forget".

When we cant even trust ourselves..do you really want to trust anyone else no matter how loving they are?

Its wise to forgive but dont be foolish enough to forget.

 

[somanathan Iyer]

There are moderate Muslims too with liberal and broad views. But they are vastly outnumbered by fanatics. In fanaticism religion stands first pushing back the nationality also.