Is craze of Engineering courses fading in TN?

[V.Balasubramani]

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Is craze of Engineering courses fading in TN?

Chennai: In a trend indicating fading craze for engineering courses in Tamilnadu which has over two lakh seats, at least one fourth of the 4,000 students called everyday to attend the ongoing single window counselling for admission are absenting themselves.

'We call over 4,000 students for counselling in Anna University for admissions. Everyday at least there are over 1,000 absentees. Students do not want to join engineering as before, Higher Education Minister P Palaniappan told the State Assembly yesterday.
Replying a query during the question hour, he said there were 1,82,487 seats allotted for the government and another 28,868 seats, which the self supporting colleges offered to fill up with candidates selected by the government. There were at least over a lakh seats remaining to be filled this year, for which the counselling session has been scheduled till 4 August since 7 July.
According to reports about a hundred tier 2 and tier 3 private engineering colleges in the State have not able to fill even one seat this year. And, 150 more colleges have filled up less than 10 seats.

Academicians say that only top performing colleges are able to fill up seats as they have quality faculty and infrastructure. About 1.2 lakh seats could go vacant this year, they say. Last year 80,000 seats had gone vacant in the government quota and an additional 20,000 seats in the management quota.

Another reason for students shunning engineering colleges is that they look are looking for other avenues, they say.

Read more at: Is craze of Engineering courses fading in TN? | News Today

 

[krish44]

in a recent tamil film starring danush ' velaiilla pattidhari' the plight of unemployed engg graduate is well portrayed. the economic growth model has crashed with no job creation for engineers. it is meaningless to produce engrs who are third rate in large numbers in rotten B or C grade colleges.sooner these colleges are closed , the better it will be

 

[tbs]

hi

when there was quality in engg education....seats were limited.....supply was less...demand was more...now more money

making private engg can't give quality...more commericialised...i heard that all those applied will get gurantee seats....

engg colleges are like panchayat union elementary schools....

 

[sarang]

This year there is more rush for BBA as the demand is more from employers. Lot of vacant seats in MBA. Even multinationals employ arts graduates for online trouble shooting of hardware, networks and broadband. When I entered job market, mechanical engineers took programming and software jobs. As per yesterday's report, there is more demand for mechanical engineering.

 

[V.Balasubramani]

Computer Science And IT Courses In Engineering Losing Charm?
by Viraja D Vakada on April 4, 2014

Gone is the time when engineering aspirants and their parents would hold their breathe during the counselling to grab an Engineering seat in Computer Science or Information Technology. Trends have changed and this has impacted the way colleges look at these courses now. If not in all states, the engineering seats in Computer Science and IT courses are sure to go down in Tamil Nadu. From the next academic session, colleges will either remove the courses or reduce the number of seats in each of these courses. 20 colleges in Tamil Nadu have already sought permission from their affiliated bodies to shut down the courses.

But what has been the reason for the fall of the buzz word- ‘Computer Science’? Well, the major reason that has been attributed to this is the pattern in which placements happen now. In the past, most of the IT companies would come and recruit in bulk taking truck load of candidates at once. However, the focus has been shifting now towards the degree colleges. Most of the degree colleges offer bachelors in computer science. Companies majorly look for any graduate who has the knowledge of the basics as the training is given only after the candidate joins the company.

Read more at: Computer Science And IT Courses In Engineering Losing Charm? ? College Affairs

 

[krish44]

Computer Science And IT Courses In Engineering Losing Charm?
by Viraja D Vakada on April 4, 2014

Gone is the time when engineering aspirants and their parents would hold their breathe during the counselling to grab an Engineering seat in Computer Science or Information Technology. Trends have changed and this has impacted the way colleges look at these courses now. If not in all states, the engineering seats in Computer Science and IT courses are sure to go down in Tamil Nadu. From the next academic session, colleges will either remove the courses or reduce the number of seats in each of these courses. 20 colleges in Tamil Nadu have already sought permission from their affiliated bodies to shut down the courses.

But what has been the reason for the fall of the buzz word- ‘Computer Science’? Well, the major reason that has been attributed to this is the pattern in which placements happen now. In the past, most of the IT companies would come and recruit in bulk taking truck load of candidates at once. However, the focus has been shifting now towards the degree colleges. Most of the degree colleges offer bachelors in computer science. Companies majorly look for any graduate who has the knowledge of the basics as the training is given only after the candidate joins the company.

Read more at: Computer Science And IT Courses In Engineering Losing Charm? ? College Affairs

it was always known that computer science and IT engineers were doing low level jobs in IT companies. it is good that companies have realised that they can use bsc or bba with computer exposure instead of CSE graduates . companies can save a lot on salaries and not waste engineers in low skill/technology jobs.
due to low growth in jobs the employment situation has worsened for all

 

[Vaagmi]

Engineering or science stream students/graduates are preferred by IT and ITES enterprises as these graduates, because of the very nature of their subjects and the syllabus, gain the skill for structured thinking in solving problems. There is nothing great about the Engineering degree other than this for the IT/ITES companies as these companies never put to use these graduates' designing skills etc., The Art and other humanities stream graduates, because of the nature of their subject, take time to acquire this structured thinking skill and employers do not want to wait for that. For this very reason there was a huge demand in the beginning for these engineering graduates.

As water flowed down the Ganges , with time passing by, these engineering graduates picked up the new skills quickly and started jumping jobs midstream and attrition rate shot through the ceilings like the அம்பரம் ஊடறுத்து ஓங்கி உலகளந்த வாமனனின் பாதம் போல. Now the IT/ITES employers have woken to the reality that there is nothing great about engineering graduates when it comes to skill levels required for their work in their companies. They have found that Science graduates with a short duration training after recruiting does the job better than the engineering graduates and for a lesser pay with a helluva lot of job satisfaction. That is the reason why the number of engineering graduates entering the IT/ITES companies is on a steady decline.

Add to this the fact that the third grade colleges of engineering churned out "also ran" horses in their hundreds and the scene becomes perfectly hilarious and surreal at the same time.

The heydays of engineering graduates is gone. It is now the days of science and commerce graduates-commerce graduates have knowledge of debit and credit which is plain Latin to engineering graduates however hard they try to understand them.

 

[sarang]

And the complaint continues. Colleges and universities do not meet the needs and requirements of employers.

 

[V.Balasubramani]

Extracts of news item in ‘The Hindu’ today:

Over 1 lakh engineering seats to fall vacant. Lack of quality, accreditation primary reasons.

Still waiting for takers.

Last year, 1,05 lakh engineering seats fell vacant. This year, the number wil go up further.

Academics blame the All India Council for Technical Education for the state of affairs.

“The approval process is minimalist, breeding undeserving institutions” says S. Vaidhyasubramaniam of SASTRA University. “Institutions with moderate infrastructure and poor faculty can’t provide quality education. They will only churn out unemployable graduates,” he argues.

That the poor quality of colleges leads to lack of employment is borne out by a recent placement. Of the 24,000 candidates who were trained, only 2,600 landed jobs in a State-level exercise organized by the Centre for University Industry Collaboration at Anna University this June. That is just 11 percent.

Another issue is accreditation. The National Board of Accreditation is there. “Till date, fewer than 20% of the colleges have opted for accreditation,” says educational consultant Moorthy Selvakumaran.


Source: 'The Hindu' dt:24.07.2014.

 

[V.Balasubramani]

Sir,

Most of these Self Financing Engineering colleges run with poor structure and with fresher faculty members, but go for advertisements boasting spacious campus with all facilities like (1)Well Qualified Faculty members with Ph.Ds, (2) Fully Air-conditioned Advanced Library (3) Well equipped Laboratory (4) Well ventilated Class Rooms, (5)Hostel facility, (6) Transport facility, etc etc and thus lure the students. Some even offer fees attraction.

These Colleges, make tall promises and collect fees. Students after paying the fees get disappointed with the poor infrastructure and other facilities which are far below the prescribed standard. It is not known whether these colleges do follow the norms prescribed by AICTE.

Nowadays, students with more awareness are very choosy and opt for colleges which perform better in terms of quality.

 

[tks]

Engineering is one of the hardest discipline to master. Most univerities around the world do not produce true engineers. Most employers except for some truly demanding positions do not need engineers. What they need are some technical work horse.

Indian universities in particular, other than IITs and few other second tier schools rarely produced true engineers in any discipline. Even one could pass out of IITs without true appreciation of the discipline. Given the allure of engineering degrees the corrupt governments seized the opportunities to make money.

Back in late 1980s and in 1991 there was a wave of placement of Indian engineers as consultants. For my organization I interviewed someone who had just landed from some place from Tamil Nadu. While this fellow still not recovered from Jet lag was doing his best to answer the questions posed to him. I learned from him that his "university" (do not remember the name) just got a few PCs and convered a horse shed into a college. He was honest that he paid lots of money to gain admission and tried to learn computer science on his own. The faculty hired seemd to be incompetent from what he described. I liked the enterprising aspect of this fellow having convinced someone to bring him to USA for quick rounds of interviews we did not hire him and in fact stopped dealing with the company that brought him. Our needs demanded high skills and this was our first attempt at off-shore talent ...

The degrees offered are fake since graduates are often incompetent. There was a wave also in 1990s and beyond to hire people in India to do fairly significant development work. Most such attempts turned out to be a big failure. Routine consulting work which involved routine work is all the so called graduates were good for.

Truth has a way of catching up .. I still think that smart schools and universities will begin to raise their competence levels because true talent will be needed in India for India ...

 

[krish44]

Engineering is one of the hardest discipline to master. Most univerities around the world do not produce true engineers. Most employers except for some truly demanding positions do not need engineers. What they need are some technical work horse.

Indian universities in particular, other than IITs and few other second tier schools rarely produced true engineers in any discipline. Even one could pass out of IITs without true appreciation of the discipline. Given the allure of engineering degrees the corrupt governments seized the opportunities to make money.

Back in late 1980s and in 1991 there was a wave of placement of Indian engineers as consultants. For my organization I interviewed someone who had just landed from some place from Tamil Nadu. While this fellow still not recovered from Jet lag was doing his best to answer the questions posed to him. I learned from him that his "university" (do not remember the name) just got a few PCs and convered a horse shed into a college. He was honest that he paid lots of money to gain admission and tried to learn computer science on his own. The faculty hired seemd to be incompetent from what he described. I liked the enterprising aspect of this fellow having convinced someone to bring him to USA for quick rounds of interviews we did not hire him and in fact stopped dealing with the company that brought him. Our needs demanded high skills and this was our first attempt at off-shore talent ...

The degrees offered are fake since graduates are often incompetent. There was a wave also in 1990s and beyond to hire people in India to do fairly significant development work. Most such attempts turned out to be a big failure. Routine consulting work which involved routine work is all the so called graduates were good for.

Truth has a way of catching up .. I still think that smart schools and universities will begin to raise their competence levels because true talent will be needed in India for India ...

Dear TKS sir
Every generation complains about gennext how incompetent the are. in early eighties also since computer science graduates were in short supply, development took a backseat and mostly application software got developed. US demanded only low level skills from India
in nineties big four iT companies in india provided these in outsourcing boom.good Computer science graduates are available from india from top schools but their potential is not tapped. Some foreign companies with india base are using them for high level development work underpaying them if one takes the international rates for compensation.one has to tap the right agency
for getting good people.companies should be prepared to invest in people instead of trying to get readymade material .I have a poor opinion of american companies and their work practices in india. they are no better than sweat shops.if they do in US what they practise in india , they would be prosecuted

 

[tks]

Dear TKS sir
Every generation complains about gennext how incompetent the are. in early eighties also since computer science graduates were in short supply, development took a backseat and mostly application software got developed. US demanded only low level skills from India
in nineties big four iT companies in india provided these in outsourcing boom.good Computer science graduates are available from india from top schools but their potential is not tapped. Some foreign companies with india base are using them for high level development work underpaying them if one takes the international rates for compensation.one has to tap the right agency
for getting good people.companies should be prepared to invest in people instead of trying to get readymade material .I have a poor opinion of american companies and their work practices in india. they are no better than sweat shops.if they do in US what they practise in india , they would be prosecuted

Sri Krish

World will become the way we want it to be. There is no reason for Indian companies to feel they are at mercy of American companies.

In the areas of STEM (Science, Technology, Engineering and Mathematics) competence is easily measurable.
If someone has to work on the MARS probe project at NASA they have to be extraordinarily good in their field.
One can be easily found out because the results often are *more* objectively measurable. So this is not about generic issue of one group complaining about another or about generational complaints.

If I had accountability to delivery a project spanning million lines of code and I have clear deadline and it is tied to revenue I am not going to hire someone who will not deliver results. If after the best effort someone does not deliver I have had no issue in firing them. This is not about compassion since such people are given every opportunity to succeed. It is about larger compassion of leading a healthy organization that is successful and benefit everyone in the organization.

Indians are like any other nationals - regardless of caste - are endowed with natural intelligence. In that they are no better or worse than any other nationals. However the education system is flawed and does not prepare them well. They are good only for those sweat shop jobs if the people involved do not figure out a way to gain skills on their own.

Microsoft did not hire an Indian CEO for his looks or his heritage. Google has a Indian in a very significant role in the management chail. These people may not have achieved much in Indian set up in my view.

I have managed organizations in Gurgaon and Delhi and they were producing high skilled systems needed to address the ever complex security market needs. What I have found is that the schools they come from often do not provide a mature base for its graduates.

Many American companies like any enterprise anywhere in the world will exploit others if an opportunity arises. With proper leadership and good background it is possible to negotiate right levels of compensation. Only the fittest survive and those in the top will rule the others in the corporate world.

Every company that played the role of sweat shops deserved it. The employees in such companies did not have the background, did not have the commitment to excellence and integrity and earned only what they deserved. The only sad part is that many such employees could have done better under proper leadership. By the way what I have stated is true across any enterprise in the world.

Sweat shop employees and their leaders especially in a 'knowledge area' like software are actually silly. They could have easily automated the sweat shop aspects but they could not think outside the proverbial box deserving what they got!

 

[krish44]

Sri Krish

World will become the way we want it to be. There is no reason for Indian companies to feel they are at mercy of American companies.

In the areas of STEM (Science, Technology, Engineering and Mathematics) competence is easily measurable.
If someone has to work on the MARS probe project at NASA they have to be extraordinarily good in their field.
One can be easily found out because the results often are *more* objectively measurable. So this is not about generic issue of one group complaining about another or about generational complaints.

If I had accountability to delivery a project spanning million lines of code and I have clear deadline and it is tied to revenue I am not going to hire someone who will not deliver results. If after the best effort someone does not deliver I have had no issue in firing them. This is not about compassion since such people are given every opportunity to succeed. It is about larger compassion of leading a healthy organization that is successful and benefit everyone in the organization.

Indians are like any other nationals - regardless of caste - are endowed with natural intelligence. In that they are no better or worse than any other nationals. However the education system is flawed and does not prepare them well. They are good only for those sweat shop jobs if the people involved do not figure out a way to gain skills on their own.

Microsoft did not hire an Indian CEO for his looks or his heritage. Google has a Indian in a very significant role in the management chail. These people may not have achieved much in Indian set up in my view.

I have managed organizations in Gurgaon and Delhi and they were producing high skilled systems needed to address the ever complex security market needs. What I have found is that the schools they come from often do not provide a mature base for its graduates.

Many American companies like any enterprise anywhere in the world will exploit others if an opportunity arises. With proper leadership and good background it is possible to negotiate right levels of compensation. Only the fittest survive and those in the top will rule the others in the corporate world.

Every company that played the role of sweat shops deserved it. The employees in such companies did not have the background, did not have the commitment to excellence and integrity and earned only what they deserved. The only sad part is that many such employees could have done better under proper leadership. By the way what I have stated is true across any enterprise in the world.

Sweat shop employees and their leaders especially in a 'knowledge area' like software are actually silly. They could have easily automated the sweat shop aspects but they could not think outside the proverbial box deserving what they got!

Dear TKS sir
Excellent post
1. I do not blame the youngsters coming out of engg colleges much. It is the big IT companies who were/are recruiting good engg graduates in large numbers in campuses , pay them salaries just oK by indian standards say 3 to 4 lakhs per year and utilize the arbitrage oppurtunity for US work for low level jobs. most of these graduates are from modest backgrounds and many girls also who take these jobs. there are given a few months training and tied with a contract. they either end up on the bench or get stuck into low level jobs from which there is no easy escape. they often work 12to 13 hours/day and work from home on saturdays.most end up working late hours to suit US companies. these graduates are capable of better quality development work . this oppertunity is not given to them.labour laws do not apply to .
IT sector
2. the slightly smarter ones escape to US for higher education and join good companies there for decent work and rise to good positions, singapore or down under are better places for these professionals. MNCs offering jobs in india follow bad work practices but when they employ indians abroad , the follow different rules and are a little better. what I found interesting is even in singapore indians and white from europe or australia are paid differently for the same work. whites get about 30-40 percent more in IT field. also whites are given P1 visas and most indians even with 5 or 6 years experience are with degraded P2 visas.we cannot dismiss off that indians deserve it. indian govt does not protect its labour force. even in gulf , indian engrs are mostly in middle level cadres and europeans take the managerial role.

 

[tks]

Dear TKS sir
Excellent post
1. I do not blame the youngsters coming out of engg colleges much. It is the big IT companies who were/are recruiting good engg graduates in large numbers in campuses , pay them salaries just oK by indian standards say 3 to 4 lakhs per year and utilize the arbitrage oppurtunity for US work for low level jobs. most of these graduates are from modest backgrounds and many girls also who take these jobs. there are given a few months training and tied with a contract. they either end up on the bench or get stuck into low level jobs from which there is no easy escape. they often work 12to 13 hours/day and work from home on saturdays.most end up working late hours to suit US companies. these graduates are capable of better quality development work . this oppertunity is not given to them.labour laws do not apply to .
IT sector
2. the slightly smarter ones escape to US for higher education and join good companies there for decent work and rise to good positions, singapore or down under are better places for these professionals. MNCs offering jobs in india follow bad work practices but when they employ indians abroad , the follow different rules and are a little better. what I found interesting is even in singapore indians and white from europe or australia are paid differently for the same work. whites get about 30-40 percent more in IT field. also whites are given P1 visas and most indians even with 5 or 6 years experience are with degraded P2 visas.we cannot dismiss off that indians deserve it. indian govt does not protect its labour force. even in gulf , indian engrs are mostly in middle level cadres and europeans take the managerial role.

Sri Krish -

I understand the points you are making.

Yes, there were sweat shops with many brought and housed in one apartment with a couple of rooms. These people did not have drivers license and/or a car and were bused by some private arrangements. They were stuck by and large. The exploitation in the US side was often done by Indians (PIO/Immigrants) who had a company subcontracting from other companies

The smart ones escaped by breaking the contract and refused to pay the bond! Some went to colleges to get better educated by managing to get tuition assistance.

Indeed in places like Singapore Indians are looked down upon and paid lot less.

Not sure what needs to happen to stop such exploitation.

What individuals can do is to recognize the following for starters...

In any career one takes up there are two distinct skills needed - one is the technical excellence in the chosen field be it Engineering or IT or finance or econmics or commerce etc.

The other is general leadership skills to make things happen. This is rarely taught in schools and universities.

In the USA there are large numbers of undcoumented workers. Even among them a few are not only good in what they do like say the construction trade but have managed to start contracting business (illegally of course) employing other spanish speaking legals!

I came across a few who were doing work on some properties and found that the boss of the team has illegal status.

 

[krish44]

dear sri TKS sir
I full agree that our youngsters require both technical and leadership skills
if technical guys do a course in management at least they will develop management skills[ if not have leadership skills] in addition to technical knowledge.
but these require more money to be spent on education.
our youngsters I fear are going downhill with bad work profile and a lifestyle with late workhours and poor family life. many marriages are going on the rocks and seniors in the family are often left without children support due to the lifestyle of these professionals.many of these guys are likely to be burnt out by the time they are 35yrs or so.
the so called industry leaders, NASSCOM or computer society are busy counting their own wealth and have let down the industry.
the future is bleak for many
many have not recovered from 2008 meltdown and still recuperating their losses.job mobility has reduced and salary rises do not cover even inflation.
well it might be a better idea if some shift to stock market speculation or real estate business . these are the only jobs in india where one can make money without much qualification . in bangalore many fellows are in real estate business and maklng good money in property speculation.lol