Is God an "Employee"??

[renuka]

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In the Dristhi thread a member had written about a practice of some individuals who place some money at the prayer altar before travelling..a fee to God to "take care" of us.

I was wondering over lunch today.."how did all these superstitions start"?

To treat God like an "Employee"..pay Him to look after us..to make transactions with Him from time to time ..asking Him to grant us this and that in return for some small amount of cash.

So do we actually treat God as an "Employee"?

He is expected to be "working" for us 24/7 without a break..without a vacation..without annual leave..without sick leave and we "pay" Him a rate that will never be approved by any wages council!LOL

Shouldn't we actually change our mindset? That is to start treating God better?

 

[ashwin_ash]

In the Dristhi thread a member had written about a practice of some individuals who place some money at the prayer altar before travelling..a fee to God to "take care" of us.

I was wondering over lunch today.."how did all these superstitions start"?

To treat God like an "Employee"..pay Him to look after us..to make transactions with Him from time to time ..asking Him to grant us this and that in return for some small amount of cash.

So do we actually treat God as an "Employee"?

He is expected to be "working" for us 24/7 without a break..without a vacation..without annual leave..without sick leave and we "pay" Him a rate that will never be approved by any wages council!LOL

Shouldn't we actually change our mindset? That is to start treating God better?

In the US, doctors are off-limits weekends, or when they are on vacation. If you do wish to contact them, you can page them and they might send a 1-liner asking you to go to the ER if you're 'really' ill or meet them when they are available next.

I've noticed that in India, Indonesia, China, and Thailand, doctors even give their personal mobile phone numbers to their patients, because they expect their doctors to be available for physical solace at all times. Similarly, Hindus expect their Gods to be available for spiritual solace at all times.

 

[renuka]

In the US, doctors are off-limits weekends, or when they are on vacation. If you do wish to contact them, you can page them and they might send a 1-liner asking you to go to the ER if you're 'really' ill or meet them when they are available next.

I've noticed that in India, Indonesia, China, and Thailand, doctors even give their personal mobile phone numbers to their patients, because they expect their doctors to be available for physical solace at all times. Similarly, Hindus expect their Gods to be available for spiritual solace at all times.

Dear Ash,

Nope..here we do not give mobile numbers to patients.

BTW Ash..thanks for prompt reply..you always follow my posts closely like how Rohini follows the Moon.

 

[Raji Ram]

Dear Renu,

It is not treating God as our employee! We know very well that God bestows ONLY what we are supposed to receive.

But, keeping some coin near God's alter enhances the hope to have a safe journey. Just for the sake of peace of mind.

After all, who are we to give something to God, when God gives us everything?
BTW, even if we have some hurdles during the journey it is 'தலைக்கு வந்தது தலைப்பாகையோடு போனது!'. eace:

 

[krish44]

in all our homes this is a convention to leave some money near God before journeys . also money tied in th yellow cloth inthe event of illness for getting well. never wondered about it . took it as part of living. perhaps it is just belief, unable to say why.

 

[Vaagmi]

Dear Ash,

Nope..here we do not give mobile numbers to patients.

BTW Ash..thanks for prompt reply..you always follow my posts closely like how Rohini follows the Moon.

I thought it was moon who followed his sweetheart Rohini. Citation please. LOL.

 

[Vaagmi]

In the Dristhi thread a member had written about a practice of some individuals who place some money at the prayer altar before travelling..a fee to God to "take care" of us.

I was wondering over lunch today.."how did all these superstitions start"?

To treat God like an "Employee"..pay Him to look after us..to make transactions with Him from time to time ..asking Him to grant us this and that in return for some small amount of cash.

So do we actually treat God as an "Employee"?

He is expected to be "working" for us 24/7 without a break..without a vacation..without annual leave..without sick leave and we "pay" Him a rate that will never be approved by any wages council!LOL

Shouldn't we actually change our mindset? That is to start treating God better?

Dear Renuka,

1. A human being has to convert every thing into money to determine and preserve its value. Labour, assets, pain everything is ultimately reduced to a common (common to all) accepted denomination called money. Economists call this monetisation. But God has no value for this money because His assets can never be reduced to money. So when you give him money it is just a few pieces of nickels or just a piece of paper without any value. We still do give money as Kanikkai or offerings. This is because we want to sacrifice that much of our valuable possession to God. In our religion we call it as sacrifice, kanikkai, dakshinai or offering. In A brahamic religions they call this Qurbani. So it is not top buy God or his services that you offer money or kanikkai. You offer it as your valuable possession as a sacrifice to please God.

2. God is also a servant. There is nothing wrong in that kind of conceptualisation. Have you not read the famous poem by Bharathi which goes like this:

எங்கிருந்தோ வந்தான் இடைச்சாதி நானென்றான்
இங்கிவனை யான் பெறவே என்ன தவம் செய்துவிட்டேன்
பற்று மிகுந்து வர பார்க்கின்றேன் கண்ணனால்
பெற்றுவரும் நன்மையெல்லாம் பேசிமுடியாது
வீதி பெருக்குகிறான், வீடு சுத்தமாக்குகிறான்
தாதியர் செய்குற்றமெல்லாம் தட்டியடக்குகிறான்....
ஒன்றும் குறைவின்றிப்பண்டமெலாம் சேர்த்துவைத்து
பால் வாங்கி, மோர் வாங்கிப் பெண்டுகளைத்
தாய்போலப்பிரியமுற ஆதரித்து,
நண்பனாய், மந்திரியாய்,நல்லசிரியனுமாய்
பண்பிலே தெய்வமாய், பார்வையிலே சேவகனாய்
எங்கிருந்தோவந்தான் இடைச்சாதினானென்றான்.....

It is a beautiful song and Kavithai. Read it with the help of a translator. You will understand the whole idea behind the hindu practice of kaanikkai.

 

[vgane]

We tie any amount or even a plain 1 Re coin in yellow cloth and pray to God...And when some body goes on a pilgrimage say Tirupati, all the Manjal Mudichu (Yellow knots) collections are taken and put in the Hundial of the Lord!

 

[prasad1]

In the Dristhi thread a member had written about a practice of some individuals who place some money at the prayer altar before travelling..a fee to God to "take care" of us.

I was wondering over lunch today.."how did all these superstitions start"?

To treat God like an "Employee"..pay Him to look after us..to make transactions with Him from time to time ..asking Him to grant us this and that in return for some small amount of cash.

So do we actually treat God as an "Employee"?

He is expected to be "working" for us 24/7 without a break..without a vacation..without annual leave..without sick leave and we "pay" Him a rate that will never be approved by any wages council!LOL

Shouldn't we actually change our mindset? That is to start treating God better?

I do not follow such practice. but at the same time when my mother used to give me money to put in the hundi before leaving home I would do so to please her. Or as Rajiji said for peace of mind. That money would go to charity. Even today when I go to visit a Temple or any other charitable function we put money in the hundi, not for GOD, but for people who make a living serving that God.

Sometimes to serve the people or the temple we sell God, because otherwise people do not contribute.
So God is not our servant, but Brahman is everything. Even with that knowledge we still do things in the name of God.

Being servant of God is the goal of Bhaktas.

Actually there is beautiful Mira Bhajan

chakar rakho ji mane chakar rakho ji
chakar rakho chakar rakho
chakar rakho ji
chakar rakho chakar rakho
chakar rakho chakar rakho
chakar rakho ji
mane chakar rakho ji
[video=youtube;ek_FtV-koHE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ek_FtV-koHE[/video]


It is a wonderful, thought provoking post. Thank you REnukaji.

 

[renuka]

I thought it was moon who followed his sweetheart Rohini. Citation please. LOL.

Dear Vaagmi ji,

As far as I know this was one exam question I had.. to describe Sita following Rama to the forest just like how Rohini faithfully follows the Moon.


It was from Samkshepa Ramayana



रामस्य दयिता भार्या नित्यं प्राणसमा हिता ॥
सीताप्यनुगता रामं शशिनं रोहिणी यथा ॥

 

[prasad1]

Sorry to digress from OP, but this is in response to the previous post.

Prajapati Daksa, a great Sage, had 60 daughters, of which 27 of them were given in marriage to the Moon under the express agreement that he [in the Vedic times, all the planets were seen as male] would treat all 27 wives equally – spending just one day a month with each of them. [The 27 wives are the Lunar Nakshatra, or Lunar Mansions, in the sky.]

However, as time went on, the Moon began to favor one specific wife, or Lunar Mansion, – Rohini – the most beautiful of Prajapati Daksha’s daughters. The Moon, overtaken with his senses, soon was seen lingering in Rohini’s Lunar Mansion for nights on end.

So I guess it is the moon that was following Rohini or so the story goes.

 

[renuka]

Agreed that the money can be used for charity etc but at least we need not treat it like we are "paying" God for His services.

Whether we admit it or not we still treat God like an unknown unrelated entity.

We do not pay our loved ones for help rendered cos that would be insulting the relationship but yet we choose to pay God a fee for His help rendered? Why?? That shows that we surely think He is NOT part of us.

I am not saying that we should not do charity but we should make sure we define it right and do not make charity sound like a transaction of the "You help me I pay You"kind.

That just sows the seed of corruption in the future.

 

[Raji Ram]

Dear Renu,

It is NOT 'paying' God for His services! It is a small token gift we offer in the Hundi of some temple (that is where the money

kept near the God's alter goes) to be used for the charity projects of that temple. Please understand that we are NOT paying
God just like we pay the man who carries our luggage at the railway station!! :ballchain:

 

[Raji Ram]

And thinking of corruption.........

We give chocolates or some gifts when the child does some good deed! Does the child start thinking that good deeds are to be done

ONLY to get gifts? If so, the child will surely become a politician later on! :lol:

 

[renuka]

Dear Renu,

It is NOT 'paying' God for His services! It is a small token gift we offer in the Hundi of some temple (that is where the money

kept near the God's alter goes) to be used for the charity projects of that temple. Please understand that we are NOT paying
God just like we pay the man who carries our luggage at the railway station!! :ballchain:

Dear RR ji,

Agreed that it is not like how we pay a person who carries our luggage cos the porter has rates fixed and will give us proper if we dont pay him and we cant take advantage of him!LOL

 

[renuka]

And thinking of corruption.........

We give chocolates or some gifts when the child does some good deed! Does the child start thinking that good deeds are to be done

ONLY to get gifts? If so, the child will surely become a politician later on! :lol:

Dear RR ji,

I never reward a child by sweets/chocolates cos that leads to linking food to being happy the main cause for obesity.In fact we are told to advice parents not to reward kids with food especially sweets.

Now coming to gifts..gifts are given not as reward but for occasions..If we give gifts as a reward that makes a person motivated only to do his work for a token and in future it might lead to corruption/bribery or even inaction(if the desired reward is not in sight).

 

[Raji Ram]

You are a super MOM, Renu! :thumb:

 

[tks]

There is no logic based on universal principles for many practices. It is really all about the mind of the devotee and not about act itself.

In life we are dealing with goals - state or unstated. For example in typing this I have a goal of posting etc. It is not possible to live one moment without goals.

However the goals may be or may not be achieved based on factors that are invisible to us. By invisible I do not mean always some mysterious force but invisible to us. For lack of a better expression we can say these are hidden variables which are hidden from us (the goal-setter) and in some instances hidden from everyone.

Human beings have created all kinds of practices to 'deal' with these hidden variables often reflecting their own sense of who they are.

A corrupt business person may have a bribing relation with his Ishtadevatha in putting some money in the Hundi saying if the next deal goes through I will give you 10% of the loot.

Another may do an act of tying up some money as an expression of commitment to do a good act or visit a temple later and thereby gain strength of mind to deal with the situation.

So human beings have created expressions to deal with this hidden variables and the most any of us can do is to respect their action provided what they do is not harmful to others.

If a pick pocket thief prays to his deity that may he blessed with lots of money the next purse he hope to snatch obviously something is wrong with this person praying to deal with his hidden variables.

In the end, if there is a anthropomorphic God it is in the mind of the 'devotee' and that is the only thing that matters. It is meaningless to even discuss if there is such a deity that is objectively 'out there' for everyone because that is actually irrelevant since whatever is 'out there or not' can only be understood in subjective terms.

Given this it is mature to respect traditions whatever they may be provided they do not cause harm to others.

The devotee is more mature to not 'treat' his or her God as a 'person' though it may be sometimes helpful to deal with a situation. For example in their personal relation with a God it is safer to get very angry with that God than with people around them. Over time they will be able to deal with their situation with more maturity by not getting angry with their fellow citizens.

 

[ashwin_ash]

Deriding the man who carries our luggage at the train station is very wrong. We should try lifting our own baggage to understand the poor guy's pain.

That apart, I feel like giving money to injured/ maimed people holding placards which go like 'I was injured in so and so war' etc. Sometimes I give, sometimes I don't. God doesn't want our money. We can give, sometimes. We need not, sometimes. I once had a flat in near pitch-darkness on the Interstate. I did call road assistance and when they didn't turn up, I called emergency. They too asked me to drive 'slowly' to the nearest lay-by and wait since my situation was not dire exactly. But then, that stretch of the highway was near a decrepit city known for extreme crime. I was fairly quaking in my shoes. Some random guy approached me when he saw my hazard lights blinking and offered to fix the flat for a fee. I randomly pulled out a bunch of bills from my pocket in gratitude and paid that guy, who quietly left after helping me. He didn't demand any particular amount, nor did he even bother to count.

That is God, in the truest sense. He doesn't want, he doesn't judge.

 

[prasad1]

Sometimes we think the world is what we know, and we alone can judge others.
I did not force anyone to choose the profession they are in. It is their choice and their circumstances. We all are in the situation of our own making (I strongly believe in the Karma theory). At the same time if we feel we should be able to do as much charity as we want.

The person carrying our luggage is doing a job for a fee, just as a policeman, postman, or a rickshaw wala. Each one should be accorded respect equally. At the same time I treat others the way I want to be treated. If a coolly tries to hustle you there is no reason to be grateful, on the other hand that same coolly helps you I will be more than happy to tip that person, it is called customer service. One need not feel pity for others.

Giving money to street corner beggar is paying into a con game. Most of these fellows are professional beggars, and make more money than average worker in construction.

WE do charity to make us feel better, some times the charity is money making business, crooks or even downright criminals.

In India it is very difficult to carry your own bags at least in Train Stations. In airport the cart is given to you to navigate with your luggage. The floor is even enough to move the luggage. In train stations those conveniences are not there. It is almost mandatory for older people to hire coolies. The luggage has to be carried over bridges, and has to loaded into compartment, and maneuvered it inside the cabin.

Ashji,
Please do not take it as personal attack. I am just expressing my observation.
A confession of panhandler: http://residentiallychallenged.blogspot.com/2012/06/how-much-does-panhandler-really-make.html

First let me explain how much money a panhandler can expect to make. When I'm panhandling I can expect to make between $15 to $30/hr. The average is closer to $15 than $30. Some days I have really good days. Some days I panhandle all day and barely make $60. Other days I make $10 in 2 hrs before I'm chased off by the police.

 

[sravna]

In the Dristhi thread a member had written about a practice of some individuals who place some money at the prayer altar before travelling..a fee to God to "take care" of us.

I was wondering over lunch today.."how did all these superstitions start"?

To treat God like an "Employee"..pay Him to look after us..to make transactions with Him from time to time ..asking Him to grant us this and that in return for some small amount of cash.

So do we actually treat God as an "Employee"?

He is expected to be "working" for us 24/7 without a break..without a vacation..without annual leave..without sick leave and we "pay" Him a rate that will never be approved by any wages council!LOL

Shouldn't we actually change our mindset? That is to start treating God better?

Dear Renuka,

I think god is working for us 24/7 without a break..without a vacation..without annual leave..without sick leave. It is only that we are not aware of it. So I think it is not wrong when we show our recognition that it is god who is taking care of us in whatever we do.

 

[prasad1]

Dear Renuka,

I think god is working for us 24/7 without a break..without a vacation..without annual leave..without sick leave. It is only that we are not aware of it. So I think it is not wrong when we show our recognition that it is god who is taking care of us in whatever we do.

Does space work for us? Are we significant? the space and Brahman will be working for now and when we are gone. The air I breath (hopefully pure) is not working for me and you. The moment we (THE I ness) is introduced in an equation it is skewed. Electricity does not differentiate between electrocuting some one and running the hart-lung machine in saving some one. Similarly Brahman does not differentiate between Sravanaji or Renukaji. Similarly Brahman does not care if you praise it or curse it, it continues to carry out its duties. Similarly we too have our duties and destiny to continue, so we should not expect divine intervention on our behalf. Brahman sustains all of us in our day to day endeavors. Without Brahman we do not exist (your own Advaita).

 

[sravna]

Does space work for us? Are we significant? the space and Brahman will be working for now and when we are gone. The air I breath (hopefully pure) is not working for me and you. The moment we (THE I ness) is introduced in an equation it is skewed. Electricity does not differentiate between electrocuting some one and running the hart-lung machine in saving some one. Similarly Brahman does not differentiate between Sravanaji or Renukaji. Similarly Brahman does not care if you praise it or curse it, it continues to carry out its duties. Similarly we too have our duties and destiny to continue, so we should not expect divine intervention on our behalf. Brahman sustains all of us in our day to day endeavors. Without Brahman we do not exist (your own Advaita).

Dear Prasad,

I think the actual purpose in seeking God's help is the fact that one's mind is getting tuned to higher thinking and that is a sign we are progressing. The fact that whether god helps us in what we seek is secondary but more important we are actually able to come out of our ego and accept that something is higher than us. That is a step in the right direction because we will set our goals higher to elevate ourselves.

 

[renuka]

Dear Renuka,

I think god is working for us 24/7 without a break..without a vacation..without annual leave..without sick leave. It is only that we are not aware of it. So I think it is not wrong when we show our recognition that it is god who is taking care of us in whatever we do.

Dear Sravna,

Yes Sravna....its is not wrong to show our recognition that God is looking after us but why dont we just take the bold step of being responsible to do things ourselves and give God a "break" cos that would also give our ownselves a break...after all per Advaita its Aham Brahmaasmi isnt it?

We have been "troubling" God with our non stop demands and desires but that is actually troubling our own selves to a great extent.

It is actually lighter on the mind and body when we cease to ask and take bold steps to rectify any situation.

 

[Raji Ram]

...... For example in their personal relation with a God it is safer to get very angry with that God than with people around them. ........

This song came to my mind when I read this line.

​Solladi Abhiraami - Aadhi Parasakthi