Is reconciliation possible

[carvaka]

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i know a majority of Brahmins from TN feel ostracized due to the socio-political movements that went on for years. my question is can we bring the society to a point where theres no distrust without retribution as a strategy. my aim is to establish a equal and just society where no child/children feels unloved, unwanted and unprotected.

i would love to see a society which thrives on mutual support and respect. what can we do to attain that state and what do you think the obstacles are...

Regards,

Bad people are not an exclusive property of any caste or group...

 

[kunjuppu]

eons ago, in another forum, a more eclectic one and more mixed than this, with perhaps more erudition on many fronts, and some palin folks like me, one ex tambram, started a thread, proposing that 'brahmins introspect for the past injustices committed in the name of casteism, and apologize'.

that thread, brought out some of the best and some of the worst posts in that forum. yours truly was an active participant, and drew, oh i dont know how many arrow heads all over my nomenclature.

only one good thing came out for me - one of my most bitter opponents, ended up being a very good friend we will probably disagree just as vehemently now, as before, but our mutual regard and affection, will withstand the strain, i am sure.

with the current state of mind, of many folks here, young and old, i do not think there will any reconciliation.

there will be the diehard tambrams, increasingly smaller by number as time goes by. a hard core will remain.

the other group, eventually to be a majority, are the ones who 'dont care' - because, like me, their children are brought up casteless abroad, or those in india, intermarry other pradeshis or within tamilnadu marry other castes.

i think, if i remember right, after all the vitriol from both sides, this was the conclusion, that we came. almost 5 years later, i think the situation has not changed. much.

 

[biswa]

The concept of caste will die, sooner or later. Give it 25 more years, tops. Change is accelerating.

 

[sangom]

The younger generation tabras who heave a sigh of relief from the rigors and restrictions, based on brahmin status, imposed on them by their elders and the society in India, once they reach foreign shores. They may marry out of caste, out of Pradesh or even out of religion, but I am told that sooner than later, these tabras also get a sort of nostalgic yearning for all that was brahministic, back home and become more conservative than their elders even. Any feedback on this impression given to me by some youngsters settled in US?

 

[rrvvvr]

Is Reconciliation Possible?


A very interesting question indeed. But too vague to understand reconciliation by whom?

I have spent most of my life in Northern India and I can assure u that the Bs dont feel as orphaned as they feel in TN. They are routinely inclusive in every sphere of activity from politics to films in all other states. Thanks to the DK and its cronies, Bs in TN get isolated to such an extent that the success of every B is viewed with suspicion and contempt - forget being applauded - be it J, V Anand, or Badrinath. Their success is never celebrated and their failures bring smiles to their fellow tamilians. It is a clear B Vs NB in TN which is not the case in any other state. A Maharshtrian or a Bengali is first seen as one rather than being a B or NB. Its only in TN that Bs are not seen as a part of tamil culture. They are pardesis in their own motherland. Give it a thought - will these same political parties fight against the death penality of Rajiv's killers if they were TBs? (Now that the world is made to believe that Shankaracharya of Kanchi could be a murderer, it wouldn't be wild to imagine that some TBs could have ended up being Rajiv's killers hypothetically). I can assure that MK or Vaiko wouldnt have even uttered a word in their defence - because they are Ts alright, but TBs - a category undeserving of such considertatiion in their view. And TBs have certainly reconciled to this fact. We dont even feel this isolation because we have developed complete immunity towards this malice.

TBs have long stopped practicing untouchability and brahminical rituals. There is certainly no threat to the society from such beliefs. In fact many brahmins are confirmed atheists and dont mind going to any place and eat anything. Yet, TBs are seen suspiciously, mocked at every opportunity from schools and colleges to films and serials. Yes TBs have reconciled to this fact too - that they are mockable and nothing can be done about it.

On the other hand, NBs are the ones who indulge in the worst form of untouchability and caste politics today. Most of them have shunned DKs atheist philosophy and have either turned believers or have got themselves converted. They know for sure, that they can never be threatened by the bhraminical order anymore - not here in TN, not anywhere in the world. Yet they seek satisfaction in speaking against the Bs, attacking them verbally and psychologically, wherever there is an opportunity (or even when there is none). In my view, it is for them to reconcile with the changed scenario and accept the TBs as their own. One complete generation of Bs has suffered without education, job and dignity since the days of independence (even before). Thousands have deserted TN to fend for their bellies - leaving behind their aged parents and owing now never to return. The present generation of TBs, the young ones have absolutely nothing to do with the beliefs and deeds of their ancestors. Why should they suffer this mockery, isolation and humiliation. It is clearly for the NB brothern of TN to reconcile to this bitter truth and accept them as thier own, just as every Yadav and Mayawati up north have done to their Bs. See them as Ts first and not as Bs.

 

[saidevo]

The 'reconciliation' is happening, in two ways: the elite become mixed and more wealthy, and the poor take to menial jobs:
Brahmins in India have become a minority - YouTube

 

[T.S.Sankara Narayanan]

No Political Party Cares about Brahmins Vote.This is because of Dis Unity among us on One side....

And our people never give importance to Vote.

If we stay united and regularly do our Franchise every one will care for our Importance...

 

[Nara]

No Political Party Cares about Brahmins Vote...

Not even BJP???

 

[kunjuppu]

Not even BJP???

it is the kiss of death for any political party to embrace the tambrams. we are branded 100% 'pariahs', and nobody would touch us. even the bjp. if there is any tambram support, bjp would rather have us keep quiet and vote for them. no public outpour of love. it simply drives the other groups away.

 

[suraju06]

Dear rrvvvr,



I am in complete agreement with what you have said here in this post except for this:

The present generation of TBs, the young ones have absolutely nothing to do with the beliefs and deeds of their ancestors. Why should they suffer this mockery, isolation and humiliation.

This amounts to accepting the time worn stupid argument by the Kazhagamites (this includes some from the brahmins , who are also addicted with the opiate called hatred sold by the kazhagamites) that in earlier times the deeds and beliefs of the brahmins alone were obnoxious and discriminating, that they were conspiratorial and scheming, that it is they who were responsible for the casteism in the hindu society. This is an illogical and contrived argument that has been accepted by all the NBs as gospel truth because it paid and even today pays. The caste system of the Hindu religion was invented and ruthlessly implemented by all the middle castes for their convenience. It worked well for a long time. With time and expansion of knowledge and 'contraction' of geographical space it became inconvenient and hence was partly jettisoned. The inconvenience of an explanation needed to justify its existence in the first place was cleverly got over by putting the entire blame on one small microscopic minority (brahmins). So I would like to correct your post by saying-the young ones as well as their ancestors have nothing to do with the casteism that existed in the society and why should they suffer this mockery, isolation and humiliation? However, they go through all these, perhaps, because the political advantage that accrues to the NBs by this blaming is still substantial.

Cheers.

 

[rrvvvr]

Agrred. I stand corrected

I completely agree with what u said.

Dear rrvvvr,



I am in complete agreement with what you have said here in this post except for this:



This amounts to accepting the time worn stupid argument by the Kazhagamites (this includes some from the brahmins , who are also addicted with the opiate called hatred sold by the kazhagamites) that in earlier times the deeds and beliefs of the brahmins alone were obnoxious and discriminating, that they were conspiratorial and scheming, that it is they who were responsible for the casteism in the hindu society. This is an illogical and contrived argument that has been accepted by all the NBs as gospel truth because it paid and even today pays. The caste system of the Hindu religion was invented and ruthlessly implemented by all the middle castes for their convenience. It worked well for a long time. With time and expansion of knowledge and 'contraction' of geographical space it became inconvenient and hence was partly jettisoned. The inconvenience of an explanation needed to justify its existence in the first place was cleverly got over by putting the entire blame on one small microscopic minority (brahmins). So I would like to correct your post by saying-the young ones as well as their ancestors have nothing to do with the casteism that existed in the society and why should they suffer this mockery, isolation and humiliation? However, they go through all these, perhaps, because the political advantage that accrues to the NBs by this blaming is still substantial.

Cheers.

 

[T.S.Sankara Narayanan]

BJP is not a Party Only for Brahmins....It is a Party which Fights for Real Sovereignty and Patriotism of Bharat.

We respect our Religion More because of its Glory and Pride.

We are never against Minorities but we are against Conversion.

We are never against Muslims in Particular but we Urge the Govt to Treat all are Equal.... That is why we are insisting to Scrap Article 370 which gives too much of Freedom to Kashmir.

Any people,any caste,any religion can become The Chief Minister in all the States in India...

But Only Muslims alone can become The Chief Minister of Kashmir...This is what we hate...

If we say this we are Stamped that we are against Muslims.

 

[ShivKC]

Any people,any caste,any religion can become The Chief Minister in all the States in India...

But Only Muslims alone can become The Chief Minister of Kashmir...This is what we hate...

If we say this we are Stamped that we are against Muslims.

to me, with all the studies i did on this subject, i personally feel, kashmir neither belong to india nor to pakistan.. it should have been a separate country like another srilanka or bangladesh..

indian screwed it up by giving a helping hand once, and want it to be under it, if not , dont want to see it as an enemies friend. thats the confusion..

kashmir is not ours.. read history in depth please.

 

[Yamaka]

Is Reconciliation Possible?


A very interesting question indeed. But too vague to understand reconciliation by whom?

I have spent most of my life in Northern India and I can assure u that the Bs dont feel as orphaned as they feel in TN. They are routinely inclusive in every sphere of activity from politics to films in all other states. Thanks to the DK and its cronies, Bs in TN get isolated to such an extent that the success of every B is viewed with suspicion and contempt - forget being applauded - be it J, V Anand, or Badrinath. Their success is never celebrated and their failures bring smiles to their fellow tamilians. It is a clear B Vs NB in TN which is not the case in any other state. A Maharshtrian or a Bengali is first seen as one rather than being a B or NB. Its only in TN that Bs are not seen as a part of tamil culture. They are pardesis in their own motherland. Give it a thought - will these same political parties fight against the death penality of Rajiv's killers if they were TBs? (Now that the world is made to believe that Shankaracharya of Kanchi could be a murderer, it wouldn't be wild to imagine that some TBs could have ended up being Rajiv's killers hypothetically). I can assure that MK or Vaiko wouldnt have even uttered a word in their defence - because they are Ts alright, but TBs - a category undeserving of such considertatiion in their view. And TBs have certainly reconciled to this fact. We dont even feel this isolation because we have developed complete immunity towards this malice.

TBs have long stopped practicing untouchability and brahminical rituals. There is certainly no threat to the society from such beliefs. In fact many brahmins are confirmed atheists and dont mind going to any place and eat anything. Yet, TBs are seen suspiciously, mocked at every opportunity from schools and colleges to films and serials. Yes TBs have reconciled to this fact too - that they are mockable and nothing can be done about it.

On the other hand, NBs are the ones who indulge in the worst form of untouchability and caste politics today. Most of them have shunned DKs atheist philosophy and have either turned believers or have got themselves converted. They know for sure, that they can never be threatened by the bhraminical order anymore - not here in TN, not anywhere in the world. Yet they seek satisfaction in speaking against the Bs, attacking them verbally and psychologically, wherever there is an opportunity (or even when there is none). In my view, it is for them to reconcile with the changed scenario and accept the TBs as their own. One complete generation of Bs has suffered without education, job and dignity since the days of independence (even before). Thousands have deserted TN to fend for their bellies - leaving behind their aged parents and owing now never to return. The present generation of TBs, the young ones have absolutely nothing to do with the beliefs and deeds of their ancestors. Why should they suffer this mockery, isolation and humiliation. It is clearly for the NB brothern of TN to reconcile to this bitter truth and accept them as thier own, just as every Yadav and Mayawati up north have done to their Bs. See them as Ts first and not as Bs.

As a Neutral Observer, I see TBs as very successful community in TN... they may not have much of political power now(please recall, it was Rajaji, the Patriarch of TBs, who joined hands with CN Annadurai to defeat Paramount Leader K Kamaraj and his Congress in 1967 - the seminal time in Dravidian Politics!).

But, they are the dominant force in the Private Sector: they are there in Music / Visual Arts and Performing Arts, Education, Banking, Commerce etc. etc. They are in Civil, Police and Foreign Services..

Their presence in the Private Sector is much larger than their population size: I estimate that TBs are about 8-10% of the TN population while they control at least 30% of the Private Sector...

Maybe, about 15% of the TBs are poor - this people can be very effectively helped by the Charities associated with Temples or free-standing....

To engage fruitfully in the domain of politics, they need to organize better around a Superior Cause and a Leader! Can J Jaya or CHO Ramasamy be that leader? Think....

I just don't understand this moaning and sobbing by some of the TBs here!

Cheer up people! Most of you are doing fabulously well, comparing to the SC/ST/OBC in TN......

Is it that many are GREEDY here?

Stay tuned.

 

[Nara]

.... One complete generation of Bs has suffered without education, job and dignity since the days of independence (even before). .

From a post filled with bogus claims of persecution, this one is a stand out. With the orthodoxy proudly justifying Manu dharma shashtra on the one hand, and the secular TBs holding on to utterly untenable claims to victimhood on the other, reconciliation has less chance than a snow flake in the proverbial hell.

Cheers!

 

[suraju06]

to me, with all the studies i did on this subject, i personally feel, kashmir neither belong to india nor to pakistan.. it should have been a separate country like another srilanka or bangladesh..

indian screwed it up by giving a helping hand once, and want it to be under it, if not , dont want to see it as an enemies friend. thats the confusion..

kashmir is not ours.. read history in depth please.

In the beginning Kashmir was strategically important for India and so keeping it was a priority. The angst of Pak is that India beat it to the post. Now after so much water have flown down Jhelum it has become more important for India not to let go Kashmir. If, God forbid, that is to happen there are powerful forces waiting and biding their time to enact a Yugoslavia in India too. That is why all this pain of incurring a huge cost in terms of money and lives. Realpolitik is quite different from good intentions and arm chair human right enthusiasm.

 

[pvraman]

kashmir is not ours.. read history in depth please. ....

Considering the present population, India should go out and grab some more countries like china does.

 

[suraju06]

Dear Yamaka,

As a Neutral Observer, I see TBs as very successful community in TN...

Neutral?

they may not have much of political power now. .....But, they are the dominant force in the Private Sector: they are there in Music / Visual Arts and Performing Arts, Education, Banking, Commerce etc. etc. They are in Civil, Police and Foreign Services..

This is indirectly admitting that their contribution to the GDP and the national exchequer is large and disproportionate to their population size. I am leaving out the culture part of it. So it would be natural justice to give them their due share in legislation also. Today that is denied by labeling them as tormentors, aliens, orthodox lunies etc., This is the crux of the problem.

Their presence in the Private Sector is much larger than their population size: I estimate that TBs are about 8-10% of the TN population while they control at least 30% of the Private Sector...

This applies verbatim to the nagarathar(Naattukottai Chettiyar) community also which is a small minority of the Vysyas of Tamilnadu (this community is numerically even smaller than TBs). They are not hounded out by heaping all imaginery victimhood nonsense(they too maintain their exclusivity) as has been done in the case of brahmins. They have a central minister today and he is supported by the political parties of T.Nadu.

Maybe, about 15% of the TBs are poor - this people can be very effectively helped by the Charities associated with Temples or free-standing..

We do not want any help from any one. If it is a help there is condescension involved and we do not want that. We demand that our right be recognized. If the national pie is divided we do have a rightful share in it.

I just don't understand this moaning and sobbing by some of the TBs here!Cheer up people! Most of you are doing fabulously well, comparing to the SC/ST/OBC in TN......

There is no moaning or sobbing. We are just demanding. We do well compared to SC/ST (dalits) like many other communities do since time immemorial. We object to the grouping of OBC in the victim category along with dalits because OBC in Tamilnadu is a tormentor of dalits. Dalits' case in Hindu society is unique and they deserve all help - not any other community. The help extended to other communities is the biggest ever fraud in the history of civilizations.

Is it that many are GREEDY here?

It is not greed. It is the righteous anger of a well informed community.

Cheers.

 

[Yamaka]

Dear Raju:

My response in bold letters below:

Dear Yamaka,



Neutral?

Yes, I believe I don't have prejudice against TBs.. I don't support anyone at the cost of any other!

This is indirectly admitting that their contribution to the GDP and the national exchequer is large and disproportionate to their population size. I am leaving out the culture part of it. So it would be natural justice to give them their due share in legislation also. Today that is denied by labeling them as tormentors, aliens, orthodox lunies etc., This is the crux of the problem.

Legislations are designed to help MOST of the people MOST of the time to give MOST benefits, at least in theory... what's practice could be little different depending on our politics... granted TBs have minimal political power today in TN... but this could change in the future.

I don't call TBs as tormentors, aliens, orthodox lunies etc. Yes, this needs to be discussed at length.



This applies verbatim to the nagarathar(Naattukottai Chettiyar) community also which is a small minority of the Vysyas of Tamilnadu (this community is numerically even smaller than TBs). They are not hounded out by heaping all imaginery victimhood nonsense(they too maintain their exclusivity) as has been done in the case of brahmins. They have a central minister today and he is supported by the political parties of T.Nadu.

Well, PC is an active member of TN Congress.. therefore he is in the Central Ministry... TBs can take active role in Congress, as they did before 1965, and become Central Ministers. It depends on your political ideology...


We do not want any help from any one. If it is a help there is condescension involved and we do not want that. We demand that our right be recognized. If the national pie is divided we do have a rightful share in it.

I am saying that as TVS Group is doing in Madurai, TBs can help other TBs and solve the problem... they need not get any hand out from anybody else.



There is no moaning or sobbing. We are just demanding. We do well compared to SC/ST (dalits) like many other communities do since time immemorial. We object to the grouping of OBC in the victim category along with dalits because OBC in Tamilnadu is a tormentor of dalits. Dalits' case in Hindu society is unique and they deserve all help - not any other community. The help extended to other communities is the biggest ever fraud in the history of civilizations.



It is not greed. It is the righteous anger of a well informed community.

To me, it gives an impression that they are at "the bottom of the Economic Pyramid"; instead, they are at the top of that Pyramid, as always...

Cheers.

Peace.

 

[amala]

Is Reconciliation Possible?


A very interesting question indeed. But too vague to understand reconciliation by whom?

I have spent most of my life in Northern India and I can assure u that the Bs dont feel as orphaned as they feel in TN. They are routinely inclusive in every sphere of activity from politics to films in all other states. Thanks to the DK and its cronies, Bs in TN get isolated to such an extent that the success of every B is viewed with suspicion and contempt - forget being applauded - be it J, V Anand, or Badrinath. Their success is never celebrated and their failures bring smiles to their fellow tamilians. It is a clear B Vs NB in TN which is not the case in any other state. A Maharshtrian or a Bengali is first seen as one rather than being a B or NB. Its only in TN that Bs are not seen as a part of tamil culture. They are pardesis in their own motherland. Give it a thought - will these same political parties fight against the death penality of Rajiv's killers if they were TBs? (Now that the world is made to believe that Shankaracharya of Kanchi could be a murderer, it wouldn't be wild to imagine that some TBs could have ended up being Rajiv's killers hypothetically). I can assure that MK or Vaiko wouldnt have even uttered a word in their defence - because they are Ts alright, but TBs - a category undeserving of such considertatiion in their view. And TBs have certainly reconciled to this fact. We dont even feel this isolation because we have developed complete immunity towards this malice.

TBs have long stopped practicing untouchability and brahminical rituals. There is certainly no threat to the society from such beliefs. In fact many brahmins are confirmed atheists and dont mind going to any place and eat anything. Yet, TBs are seen suspiciously, mocked at every opportunity from schools and colleges to films and serials. Yes TBs have reconciled to this fact too - that they are mockable and nothing can be done about it.

On the other hand, NBs are the ones who indulge in the worst form of untouchability and caste politics today. Most of them have shunned DKs atheist philosophy and have either turned believers or have got themselves converted. They know for sure, that they can never be threatened by the bhraminical order anymore - not here in TN, not anywhere in the world. Yet they seek satisfaction in speaking against the Bs, attacking them verbally and psychologically, wherever there is an opportunity (or even when there is none). In my view, it is for them to reconcile with the changed scenario and accept the TBs as their own. One complete generation of Bs has suffered without education, job and dignity since the days of independence (even before). Thousands have deserted TN to fend for their bellies - leaving behind their aged parents and owing now never to return. The present generation of TBs, the young ones have absolutely nothing to do with the beliefs and deeds of their ancestors. Why should they suffer this mockery, isolation and humiliation. It is clearly for the NB brothern of TN to reconcile to this bitter truth and accept them as thier own, just as every Yadav and Mayawati up north have done to their Bs. See them as Ts first and not as Bs.

The question is do Tamil Brahmins see themselves as Tamilians first? Do other non Tamils see Tamil Brahmins as just Tamilians? I'd hazard a guess that NO they don't nor do others from what I've observed. Most people see TamBrahms as just that, Tambrahms.

I mean here you have ethnic Tamils quickly followed by the caste and a whole new word Tambrahm. We never hear of other ethnic communities refer to themselves as TelBrahms or MalBrahms or GujBrahms or PunjBrahms. For all other communities you'd either have to be close enough to glean their caste or check out their surnames or whatever to know. It seems to me that they don't identify with caste (except for marriage perhaps) in such a strong, intense way as TamBrahms. For Tambrahms being Brahmin is all pervading. Perhaps only when they can identify with their ethnic group alone at least for 5 mins before shoving in the Brahmin tag will they be seriously considered as Tamil first? Just a thought...

OTOH to be fair TamBrahms are a distinct unique subculture of their own within Tamil society. They have much differences with the other Tamilians: food, language (iyer/iyengar baashai), culture,music, hell even looks (apparently) so then can we blame them and the others for distinguishing TamBrahms from other Tamil populace?

PS: The only other ethnic group that identifies caste with ethnicity ala Tambrahms are the Kashmiri Pandits. But given their sobering history I'm not sure one can find fault with that?

 

[carvaka]

Well thanks for the responses. I expected people to list out the hurdles and talk about overcoming them. Its essentially to objectively analyse where as a community tbs failed to win over people. I see lots of people who love the company of iyers/iyengars not for their superiority but for the love they give as friends. My childhood life was mostly spent in our agraharam. I have seen genuinely affectionate people and also not so affectionate, which is something you see in other castes too. I do not put the onus on tambrahms to be a populace with 100% cosmopolitan as it would not be reasonable since freewill and prejudices which are very natural in a society comes in to play.

I have read things that never really sound intelligent like distinct in bhashai/looks(apparently). All I can say is that I do not see tambrahms distinct or superior in looks. They look like the rest of the stock , proly they look/looked better as the rest of the communities' professions would not help them in looking polished.

Please forgive me if you find this offending. People ascribing better intelligence or superiority, I can only say , "Naive"...And these discussions point out to the inclination of some of the interacts still clinging to the myth that they are superior. I have seen very similar attitude from Pakistani interacts. And please let us not indulge in anything to do with nation states or statecraft as this discussion is not about those.

All I can say is that the intentions matter. It would not have been difficult for me to bring out facts that would have offended lots of people and ensue a slugfest. I believe unconditional love and the inclination to contribute to the society we live in would keep an individual or a group very relevant. What happened to Madurai nayaks or the zamindars. They faded into the oblivion because they were no longer instrumental in uplifiting the masses or were not a source of happiness/pride for the rest of the communities.

It takes a lot of courage to forget/forgive the events/people that caused damages and to move forward and play a vital role in helping fellow human-beings. As Amartya Sen says, "absolute justice is not possible", we should understand that human mind is complex and we do not know what the society deems as justice.

All I can say is I would want to see a society where a child do not feel unwanted or unprotected. He should feel his future is safe.

And people who attach certain form of intelligence as a factor to weigh the importance of a man/woman, all I can say is its very unintelligent. Universe is too big for our intelligence and it does not matter. Thats the reason we see what are called as intelligent endeavors fail. Its because intelligence can never be defined within the narrow lanes of formal educations and the monetary/non-monetary gratifications that come with them.

And forgive me, for I am not as erudite as many...

With lots of love,
Carvaka

 

[carvaka]

And for people who are looking at my motives with doubts, I will explain those.

I have had friend groups comprising of Bs and NBs and my family has had too many personal friends. When I see them disgruntled and see a feeling of helplessness, I feel uneasy. I am genuinely interested in discussions that would help us find a way out of this for the benefit of our young ones.

I have a B friend standing by me and fighting for my due recognition in my absence. I have seen Bs forming groups and sabotaging others' careers ruthlessly. So it would be illogical for me to group all Bs into one group or the other. The second group I have seen the lead B shamelessly asking for Gotras/sub-sects to be doubly sure. And I do not argue that its unique to Bs, it is a preserve of all other castes and communities. Its a natural inclination for humans to be comfortable with sameness, but we are also evolving into logical beings to make the world a better place to live.

I would like to inform you all that you arent interacting to an intelligent person, so forgive me for lack of anything in the posts. I can say with reasonable confidence that I have good intentions behind the posts.

 

[carvaka]

Also let me state clearly I am not convinced and do not accept claims of superiority in terms of looks or contribution to the GDP or intelligence or cornering certain % of jobs in private sector. This could be something that will help for self-gratification and will not impress/convince people who have an idea or two about weighing contributions. Other castes are doing better if I could talk frankly.


In a way intelligence is grossly misunderstood. Intelligence is not certain something that is indicative of somebody's highscores in his academics and imho intelligence is over-valued. For a society to thrive/prosper I certainly feel the narrowly defined intelligence is not a key factor.

In almost all of the posts I got the feeling that they try to convey Bs are better than every other NBs in every walk of life, which might not be very true. ...

Regards,

 

[Nara]

carvaka, a short post, on the money, appreciate it.

....In a way intelligence is grossly misunderstood. Intelligence is not certain something that is indicative of somebody's highscores in his academics and imho intelligence is over-valued. For a society to thrive/prosper I certainly feel the narrowly defined intelligence is not a key factor.

Let me cite a small excerpt from an article that appeared in The New Yorker (June 6, 2011) called “Live and Learn” by Louis Menand.

"....intelligence involves many attributes that can't be captured in a one-time assessment, like an I.Q. test. There is no intellectual equivalent of the hundred-yard dash. An intelligent person is open-minded, an outside-the-box thinker, an effective communicator, is prudent, self-critical, consistent, and so on. These are not qualities readily subject to measurement. "

​

In almost all of the posts I got the feeling that they try to convey Bs are better than every other NBs in every walk of life, which might not be very true.

I am on a roll now with quotations. Just yesterday I came across the following quote by the uniquely American novelist, F Scott Fitzgerald, about the wealthy. Replace rich with TB and you will see the quotation fits very well in this thread.

"Let me tell you about the very rich. They are different from you and me. They possess and enjoy early, and it does something to them, makes them soft where we are hard, and cynical where we are trustful, in a way that, unless you were born rich, it is very difficult to understand. They think, deep in their hearts, that they are better than we are because we had to discover the compensations and refuges of life for ourselves. Even when they enter deep into our world or sink below us, they still think that they are better than we are. They are different."

​

Only when this attitude is thoroughly scrubbed from the psyche of TBs would reconciliation be at hand.

Cheers!

 

[கால பைரவன்]

In almost all of the posts I got the feeling that they try to convey Bs are better than every other NBs in every walk of life, which might not be very true. ...

Regards,

Replace rich with TB and you will see the quotation fits very well in this thread.

Only when this attitude is thoroughly scrubbed from the psyche of TBs would reconciliation be at hand.

Such breathtaking confidence, only the religious can muster such certainty with absolutely no evidence.

Even the irreligious make claims without an iota of evidence.