Let a Dalit become a Sankaracharya !! தலித்தை சங்கராச்சாரியாராக ஆக்குங

[Nara]

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.... Any one who has the qualifications can occupy the seat of an Acharya or get qualified as it is being done now. ....

Dear B sir, I have no doubt about your sincerity on this matter, however, please consider the fact that all Veda patashalas are closed for anyone but Brahmins. Then, how is a Dalit to get qualified?

In the case of SV, Dr. Joseph will never be accepts in the precincts of Brahmin exclusivity, he won't be allowed to even join the Prabhandha goshti.

If weekend Brahmins are serious to reform their Brahminism, then several preparatory steps ought to be taken,

• lobby the MaTham orthodoxy to declare discriminatory and oppressive Dharma shasthras inapplicable in this era,
  
• throw open the gates of Veda patashalas to one and all,
• actively recruit pupils from Dalit groups by offering scholarships and other incentives,
• pay special attention to the growth of these pupils so that a pool of qualified candidates will develop.
  

Unless these steps are taken, support for the idea of Dalit becoming Sankarachariyar can be no more than an idea, however sincerely it is held.

with best regards ....

 

[Haridasa Siva]

please consider the fact that all Veda patashalas are closed for anyone but Brahmins. Then, how is a Dalit to get qualified?

But I just read in another thread in this forum informing that the Kanchi Mutt is running a school for all kids (including dalits) and Sanskrit and Vedas are being taught to everyone.

 

[subbudu1]

But I just read in another thread in this forum informing that the Kanchi Mutt is running a school for all kids (including dalits) and Sanskrit and Vedas are being taught to everyone.

Though the article mentions vedas what is actually described is sanskrit classes. There is a difference between the two. If Shankaracharya were to start veda classes for all, we would see a huge backlash from our vaidikas, people from Kumbakonam being the first to stand up. But having said that I reasonably( with reservations) admire the present Shankaracharya of Kanchi. I am no great Gyani to rate him. But there is a certain degree of proactiveness in him which is useful for society.

 

[ShivKC]

But I just read in another thread in this forum informing that the Kanchi Mutt is running a school for all kids (including dalits) and Sanskrit and Vedas are being taught to everyone.

i slightly differ in my normal stand, here.. pls watch the highlighted texts, and look for a day in future..

But I just read in another thread in this forum informing that the Kanchi Mutt is ALSO running a (every) school for all kids (including dalits) (including pakistanis)and Sanskrit, (TAMIL) and Vedas are being taught to everyone

Topsy turvy im

 

[kunjuppu]

it is indeed interesting

Ie very interesting,

that no one, has quoted manu, and utterly condemned the initiation of sanskrit, to the panchamas.

no one suggested pouring of lead or hot oil, into fellow human mouth or ears or such horrible stuff!

I think, even now, in some forums, this suggestion, may be termed as ‘anti brahmin’. BUT NOTE HERE.

So folks, let us all take a bow,

atleast, we all this as a common point of agreement.

Not bad, for a group of strange guys from all over the world, with a lot of eclectic ideas.

Good stuff!!

i think, on an average, as a community, we have a long way to go, but looking back, we have indeed come a long way away from where our forefathers stood, in such attitudes.

 

[sadasivam.sridharan]

Unless we shed the orthodox view that the study of vedas is the birth right of only brahmins and others are a forbidden lot,we will never be able to get along and we will be only withdraw ourselves into a shell.How many of us call ourselves a true brahmin ? So the argument that the study of veda is only for the brahmins at this present age does not hold water.

 

[Nacchinarkiniyan]

To become a Sankaracharya, the first step is to enroll and study in a Veda patashala. There are Veda patashalas which do admit people other than born Brahmins. (though these are few).

But Veda patashalas are not popular because there is no guaranteed employment. Not all students of Veda patashalas become Sankaracharyas or money earning Swamijis. Most of them become Purohits which is not a high earning profession. In fact the Veda patashala students learn in secular schools and colleges so that they are not dependent on Vedic education for survival.

Veda patashalas generally attract only the Brahmins from the poorest class. Even those Veda Patashalas which do admit Dalits and other Non-Brahmins have failed to attract Dalits/Non-Brahmins.

I would love to see a Dalit reciting the Vedas and also becoming a Sankaracharya.

But then I know that this a day dream. The fault is not with the caste system alone. Even if the caste system disappears the chances of a Dalit becoming Sankaracharya is slim.

The Hindus and Brahmins in particular swear by the Vedas. But look down upon the learning of the Vedas. I do not think many members of this forum would send their sons to Veda Patashalas. I do not see any reason why a Dalit/Non-Brahmin should send his son to a veda patashala, when the Brahmins themselves have almost abandoned such learning as economically not viable.

 

[happyhindu]

I would love to see a Dalit reciting the Vedas and also becoming a Sankaracharya.

Dear Sir,

When someone starts learning vedas, he no longer remains a 'dalit'. So i suppose using the term 'dalit' for someone reciting the vedas or becoming shankaracharya is inappropriate.

The Hindus and Brahmins in particular swear by the Vedas. But look down upon the learning of the Vedas. I do not think many members of this forum would send their sons to Veda Patashalas. I do not see any reason why a Dalit/Non-Brahmin should send his son to a veda patashala, when the Brahmins themselves have almost abandoned such learning as economically not viable.

Sir, its not about being economically viable. Its about breaking caste barriers. For those who are poor, earning a simple income as a purohit can be very satisfying..

 

[Brahmanyan]

Let a Dalit become a Sankaracharya !! தலித்தை சங்கராச்சாரியாராக ஆக்குங

Caste barriers cannot be abolished by a "Dalit " becoming a Sankaracharya or any Acharya. Religious history in our Country has many examples of non brahmins like Alwars and Nayanmars occupying high position among the believers. Caste barriers are Social problems. Reformists have appeared in every age to correct this anomaly, but not succeeded fully. Only Education and economic parity can abolish Castes slowly. But the differences will reappear in some other form. Grouping of humans is a natural phenomena. We group ourselves in the name of Race, Religion, Language, Nation, Caste and Community. Equality is an ideal in text books, not in real life. But if we discard the "blinkers", it is not difficult to practice at personal level.


Regards,
Brahmanyan,
Bangalore.

 

[Nacchinarkiniyan]

Dear Sir,

When someone starts learning vedas, he no longer remains a 'dalit'. So i suppose using the term 'dalit' for someone reciting the vedas or becoming shankaracharya is inappropriate.

That is theory. We perform Upanayanam for the Non_Brahmin candidates. But people do not forget. Recently some one was complaining about a Madathipathi on his preference to his sub-caste.

Sir, its not about being economically viable. Its about breaking caste barriers. For those who are poor, earning a simple income as a purohit can be very satisfying..

Some of us have tried. The problems are

1. You have to give up eating non-Vegetarian food.

2. The life in the Veda pathasala is tough. We give only sufficient food for survival. Some may call it starvation diet. Then getting up very early in the morning and performing all the rituals. No TV, Radio or games.

Children find it extremely difficult and cry to go back to their own family.

Then the non-Brahmin student is not able to go back to his family because he has been transformed. Totally changed to the extent that he feels an alien in his community. At least the Brahmin students can go back and spent some time every year with their families. At the same time the born non-Brahmin is not able to get the total acceptance of the Brahmin community.

I am not talking theory. But practical experience.

I remember reading about a Non-Brahmin purohit. He ran away from home as child. Got admission to a Veda Patashala as an orphan. But later when he came back he was rejected by his community.

 

[DrBarani]

Caste barriers cannot be abolished by a "Dalit " becoming a Sankaracharya or any Acharya. Religious history in our Country has many examples of non brahmins like Alwars and Nayanmars occupying high position among the believers. Caste barriers are Social problems. Reformists have appeared in every age to correct this anomaly, but not succeeded fully. Only Education and economic parity can abolish Castes slowly. But the differences will reappear in some other form. Grouping of humans is a natural phenomena. We group ourselves in the name of Race, Religion, Language, Nation, Caste and Community. Equality is an ideal in text books, not in real life. But if we discard the "blinkers", it is not difficult to practice at personal level.


Regards,
Brahmanyan,
Bangalore.

I don't get something. What is the need to "abolish castes"? That is not required. Leveling out a playfield doesn't mean killing away the players! If there is any perceived differences in caste and if someone can show me "tort" based on a caste discrimination, lets work to remove that discrimination. But calling for "abolishing caste" is like cutting off the nose to avoid getting common cold. People will always find ways to aggregate into their own groups, discriminate other groups. That is an inherent trait in humans.

Say OK for Caste, NO for discrimination. If you ban a dalit or others from entering a temple, that is dicrimination. But those discriminatory practices have been defeated by enacting laws. So, why bother about caste anymore? Let people believe in whatever they believe in, including caste. That is the truest way of democracy.

Has anyone protested against use of surnames like "chettiyar", "mudaliars" "reddys" "Yadavs"? Why are the antibrahmin gangs gunning after only brahmins with surnames? Is this a double standard or what? It is easy to beat up the little nerd in the class who won't fight back. I demand a special brahmin division of Bajrang Dal!

 

[renuka]

I don't get something. What is the need to "abolish castes"? That is not required. Leveling out a playfield doesn't mean killing away the players! If there is any perceived differences in caste and if someone can show me "tort" based on a caste discrimination, lets work to remove that discrimination. But calling for "abolishing caste" is like cutting off the nose to avoid getting common cold. People will always find ways to aggregate into their own groups, discriminate other groups. That is an inherent trait in humans.

Say OK for Caste, NO for discrimination. If you ban a dalit or others from entering a temple, that is dicrimination. But those discriminatory practices have been defeated by enacting laws. So, why bother about caste anymore? Let people believe in whatever they believe in, including caste. That is the truest way of democracy.

Has anyone protested against use of surnames like "chettiyar", "mudaliars" "reddys" "Yadavs"? Why are the antibrahmin gangs gunning after only brahmins with surnames? Is this a double standard or what? It is easy to beat up the little nerd in the class who won't fight back. I demand a special brahmin division of Bajrang Dal!

Dr Barani,

From what I know Tamils and Malayalis both Non Brahmins and Brahmins do not have surnames.Those are just caste names.I am not too sure of Telegus.

Other communities have surnames.For example a northern Indians with the surnames Hastir and Agnihotri have different surnames but are of the same type Saraswat Brahmins.

In south do Iyers and Iyengars have surnames? No isnt it?(correct me if I am wrong)Its only caste names and subtype and gotras.
Even for Tamil Non Brahmins its just caste names and not surnames.

Thats why among Tamilians both Brahmin and Non Brahmins when a woman marries say her name is Rekha Mohan and she marries Dileep Ramasamy.
She becomes Rekha Dileep.

In North if Rekha Agnihotri married Dileep Hastir she becomes Rekha Hastir.

 

[Nacchinarkiniyan]

Most of the surnames in India are caste names. Agnihotri is a caste name. Mukerjee, Banerjee, Bhargava, Sivastava all these are caste names. Many Tamil Brahmins gave up their caste surnames at the time of freedom movement. Tamil Brahmins took a lead in this. It was done on a large scale in Bihar also. Like Rajendra Prasad our first president did not have a surname.

Many Tamil Brahmins staying in the North have been forced in the recent past to have a surname. Many have taken on Iyer and Sharma. But others have taken on gotra names like Atreya, Srivatsa etc. Otherwise the father's name becomes a Surname. Like Viswanathan Anand. Actually his name is Anand. His father's name is Viswanathan. He is V.Anand. Since he was harassed for a surname he is Viswanthan Anand. Funny world.

 

[zebra16]

Most of the surnames in India are caste names. Agnihotri is a caste name. Mukerjee, Banerjee, Bhargava, Sivastava all these are caste names. Many Tamil Brahmins gave up their caste surnames at the time of freedom movement. Tamil Brahmins took a lead in this. It was done on a large scale in Bihar also. Like Rajendra Prasad our first president did not have a surname.

Many Tamil Brahmins staying in the North have been forced in the recent past to have a surname. Many have taken on Iyer and Sharma. But others have taken on gotra names like Atreya, Srivatsa etc. Otherwise the father's name becomes a Surname. Like Viswanathan Anand. Actually his name is Anand. His father's name is Viswanathan. He is V.Anand. Since he was harassed for a surname he is Viswanthan Anand. Funny world.

Yes. Surnames have been forced on us, for those working in North India. I could not get even driving licence till I furnished my name, father's name and surname. Since my school/college records did not have surname, I had to give an affidavit indicating my surname.

If no surname is stated, one's own name becomes a surname to northeners!!!. We south indians furnish father/husband's initials first and follow it up with our names. So our personal name becomes last name for them. So my father's name becomes my personal name and my own name becomes surname. For the last 15 years, I have given up telling others what my name is, and respond to all the three names, surname, my own name and my father's name.

Regards,

narayan

 

[renuka]

Most of the surnames in India are caste names. Agnihotri is a caste name. Mukerjee, Banerjee, Bhargava, Sivastava all these are caste names. Many Tamil Brahmins gave up their caste surnames at the time of freedom movement. Tamil Brahmins took a lead in this. It was done on a large scale in Bihar also. Like Rajendra Prasad our first president did not have a surname.

Many Tamil Brahmins staying in the North have been forced in the recent past to have a surname. Many have taken on Iyer and Sharma. But others have taken on gotra names like Atreya, Srivatsa etc. Otherwise the father's name becomes a Surname. Like Viswanathan Anand. Actually his name is Anand. His father's name is Viswanathan. He is V.Anand. Since he was harassed for a surname he is Viswanthan Anand. Funny world.

Yes you are right that even surnames are caste based even for those 2 examples I gave of Hastir and Agnihotri are Saraswat Brahmins caste based surnames.
So I guess all Indians are still very much caste based.

So if at all caste is abolished than how will we have surnames?
Will we land up like Parsees where most surnames were based on proffesions and we have names like Mickey Contractor, Ricky Engineer and Ronny Screwala(A famous film producer).

But you know when we read Mahabharat we find no surnames too.Pandavas were just named so as Taddhita of being sons of Pandu.
So even then surnames were not in vogue.

 

[Nacchinarkiniyan]

We do have profession based surnames like Kulkarni (a clerk), Joshi (an astrologer), Patil (village head), Patel(villgae head) etc. and also place names Ambedkar (From Ambed), Tendulkar (from Tendul), Chiplunkar etc. There In Bengal it is called title becaue the British gave titles. Roy Chowdhry, Chowdhry, Kamdar and so on. But Bhattacharya, Mukopadhyaya (Mukerjee) etc are caste names. Then in Kerala we have house name like valia parambil (from the big house). Interesting to study.

Not many people in the south know that a man called Ambedkar could be a Brahmin.

 

[happyhindu]

We perform Upanayanam for the Non_Brahmin candidates. But people do not forget.

I don't think so. This is what brahmins like to beleive. Time over, various sections have been elevated to brahminhood and the only people who are interested in such things are sociologists, historians, academic people...Those in everday life have no idea who was B or NB in the past, leave alone who was elevated to B or who was reduced down to NB.

1. You have to give up eating non-Vegetarian food.

2. The life in the Veda pathasala is tough. We give only sufficient food for survival. Some may call it starvation diet. Then getting up very early in the morning and performing all the rituals. No TV, Radio or games.

If kids are willing to live like this, who are we to say anything on that.

Children find it extremely difficult and cry to go back to their own family.

i suppose these are 'B' kids.

Then the non-Brahmin student is not able to go back to his family because he has been transformed. Totally changed to the extent that he feels an alien in his community.

Not necessarily so. Folks irrespective of community may look upon him, including his family.

..the born non-Brahmin is not able to get the total acceptance of the Brahmin community.

This prob has been created by those who are Bs currently. I can imagine why they are not willing to show total acceptance for converts into B.

I remember reading about a Non-Brahmin purohit. He ran away from home as child. Got admission to a Veda Patashala as an orphan. But later when he came back he was rejected by his community.

Doesn't matter. Esp if he is happy making his living as a purohit somewhere..

 

[vikrama]

But you know when we read Mahabharat we find no surnames too.Pandavas were just named so as Taddhita of being sons of Pandu.
So even then surnames were not in vogue.

In old Tamil literature and stone inscriptions till 18th century,we rarely find surnames/caste names. There were castes no doubt, but no caste-indicating surnames. In the Chola inscriptions, except Bhattars, others were simply mentioned by their personal names. Can anybody tell the caste of Pisiranthaiyar, Kambar, Arunagiri or Ottakkoothar from their names. I think that with the spread of British rule, the rulers might have encouraged/forced people to have surnames. Then our forefathers might have chosen glorious names. See all the caste names are glorifying. Mudaliar- being first, Chettiar- sreshti, the greatest, Iyer- the leader, Padaiyatchi- leader of army, Nadar- ruler of the country, devar- god. Was it part of the British divide and rule policy?

 

[Nacchinarkiniyan]

HH,

People do forget. When ? After 150 to 200 years. Not in a single life time.

Kids are not willing. No kid goes to a Veda patashala willingly. Brahmin or Non-Brahmin. He is forced by his parents in most cases.

How many Veda pathasalas have you seen? Any Pathasala which admits non-Brahmins? Have you talked to these children? I have and I know.

Even Brahmin students from veda patashalas do have a problem when they go back as the other members of the family look down upon him.

In Kolkata one of the religious organizations runs a camp for training priests in Durga Puja rituals. This has become necessary as there are thousands of Durga Pujas and not enough priests. It is open to all irrespective of caste.

Unfortunately the feedback is that the Pujas are reluctant to employ Non_Brahmins. Even when the entire Puja committee has only non-Brahmins, they want only Brahmin priests. They come hunting for Brahmins. They even pick up South Indian Brahmins who do not know the rituals. Last year I was there when they asked one of our Sri Vaishnava priests to officiate, in spite of his telling them that he is not aware of the rituals of Durga Puja.

Sociologists, historians, and academic people live in a world of their own. I live in the real world of priests, Pujas, Veda Patashalas and deal with real life and real people. I know many non-Brahmins who buy a Poonal and wear it for going around as Brahmin priests in Bengal temples. They have learnt the simple rituals and Mantras. I have even heard of one Muslim who is doing it.

The other Brahmins know it. But they do not care. It is a profession and live and let live is the policy.

In the story that I wrote about that person is not happy. He is very unhappy. You may be happy that he has proved a point. But he wants to be accepted by his community.

 

[happyhindu]

Most of the surnames in India are caste names. Agnihotri is a caste name. Mukerjee, Banerjee, Bhargava, Sivastava all these are caste names. Many Tamil Brahmins gave up their caste surnames at the time of freedom movement. Tamil Brahmins took a lead in this. It was done on a large scale in Bihar also. Like Rajendra Prasad our first president did not have a surname.

Many Tamil Brahmins staying in the North have been forced in the recent past to have a surname. Many have taken on Iyer and Sharma. But others have taken on gotra names like Atreya, Srivatsa etc. Otherwise the father's name becomes a Surname. Like Viswanathan Anand. Actually his name is Anand. His father's name is Viswanathan. He is V.Anand. Since he was harassed for a surname he is Viswanthan Anand. Funny world.

Sir i don't think Mukherjee, Bhattacharya, Banerjee, Bhargava, etc are "caste" names which wud signify ancient occupations.

Mukherjee = Mukhya + Achar-ji
Bhattacharya = Bhatta + Acharya

Achari and Acharya was the title used by those who were qualified in Sthapatya Shastra (temple building, temple architecture, etc). They were artisan groups. The Acharyas of the Vishwakarma "caste" were wide spread because of temple-building activity in numerous places.

An example of south india:

In the Pallava kingdom, in the tax-department (Puravuvari-tinaikkalam), the possible grade of officers were (from highest to lowest) were - Kankani (examiner of accounts), Nayagam (superintendent of accounts), Mugavetti (index keeper), Varippottagam (tax-registerer), Pattolai (registar filing orders of the king). [pallava possibly just means a palli-van, phal-van, or some such thing meaning one who resides in a palli settlement, no varna here. In proto-nostratic which is pre-dravidian, and pre-indoeuropean, pal (phal) means a 'settlement"].

Even today we need a "patta" document to register a land. These terms are old. The names have survived. One cannot expect people to be professing the same "caste" (occupation) upon the defeat of their kingdom. Neither can we expect them to be professing the same "caste names" in such cases.

Apparently india was made up of numerous "countries" which in turn were divided into units ruled by murderous petty chieftains many of whom harased kings and sought to become emperors themselves. So when kingdoms fell, re-organization of occupations, of victorious people filling up positions, are to be expected.

In the Pallava kingdom all these grades of officers (as in the tax-dept example given) were not 'brahmins'. There were many departments that managed various state affairs. Quite apparently they were getting their education from teachers. In the Pallava kingdom, the Bhatta was a teacher, just like a present-day teacher.

I have no idea when the term bhatta came to refer to brahmins. But i suppose it is because of the nair gentry, and royal families that arose from them. There are quite some writings (inclding sadasivan's work) which mention that priests (imo just teachers not exactly priests) were brought in from tamilnadu to conduct ceremonies for them since the local namboodiris wud not conduct ceremonies for them (due to the 'low-caste' of nairs). These teachers were in all probability elevated to brahminhood by these 'royalty'.

I hear from some academic people that those who elevate one another, tend to be related in some form or the other.

Caste (occupation) roles have been ever changing. IMO, it is rather far-fetched to think that those who are using surnames like kulkarnis (karanams, accountants), bhattacharjee, mukherjee, bhargava, etc are the same people who professed these professions in ancient kingdoms. Esp given the fact that mughal rule did upset social conditions, a lot more than a hindu kingdom defeating another hindu kingdom.

The framework of "caste" (ocupational categorzation) is ancient. Caste names may be old. However, the people that constituted a "caste" have always been changing.

 

[happyhindu]

HH,

People do forget. When ? After 150 to 200 years. Not in a single life time.

Maybe not in a single lifetime, but certainly after a few generations. I do not think the average man on the street knows that present-day bengali brahmins were elevated from tribal priests. Even if they know, given the modernity of today's times, i don't think anyone cares. Only those who are into the academic side of such topics will speak about it, not the general janta.

Kids are not willing. No kid goes to a Veda patashala willingly. Brahmin or Non-Brahmin. He is forced by his parents in most cases.

How many Veda pathasalas have you seen? Any Pathasala which admits non-Brahmins? Have you talked to these children? I have and I know.

Even Brahmin students from veda patashalas do have a problem when they go back as the other members of the family look down upon him.

In Kolkata one of the religious organizations runs a camp for training priests in Durga Puja rituals. This has become necessary as there are thousands of Durga Pujas and not enough priests. It is open to all irrespective of caste.

Unfortunately the feedback is that the Pujas are reluctant to employ Non_Brahmins. Even when the entire Puja committee has only non-Brahmins, they want only Brahmin priests. They come hunting for Brahmins. They even pick up South Indian Brahmins who do not know the rituals. Last year I was there when they asked one of our Sri Vaishnava priests to officiate, in spite of his telling them that he is not aware of the rituals of Durga Puja.

Sociologists, historians, and academic people live in a world of their own. I live in the real world of priests, Pujas, Veda Patashalas and deal with real life and real people. I know many non-Brahmins who buy a Poonal and wear it for going around as Brahmin priests in Bengal temples. They have learnt the simple rituals and Mantras. I have even heard of one Muslim who is doing it.

The other Brahmins know it. But they do not care. It is a profession and live and let live is the policy.

Well the whole point it not whether kids wanna go or not go. Its about religious-teaching organisations themselves coming forward to show that they no longer profess or propogate rigid-caste ideas (its about cleaning up hinduism). Let them throw the doors open to everyone (ofcourse with some selection criteria), then let us see.....

In the story that I wrote about that person is not happy. He is very unhappy. You may be happy that he has proved a point. But he wants to be accepted by his community.

Sir you had not mentioned this point earlier. Unless you mention so, how wud i know if he is happy, unhappy, proving a point, seeking acceptance, rejection, etc, etc. Nevertheless, quite apparently, we cannot base our discussion on a few individuals whom we know on a personal basis.

 

[Nacchinarkiniyan]

In Bengal The name Mukerjee is the anglicization of the word Mukhopadyaya. Banerjee is Bandopadyaya and Chatterje is Chattopadyaya. These are derived from the term Upadyaya which means teacher. Upadyaya is a common Brahmin surname in U.P. Acharya is Guru. That is why Bhattacharya is the highest class of Brahmins. The common surname for the sculptors is Pal in west Bengal.

The term Bhatt means a priest or scribe in Sanskrit. It is a common surname throughout India.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhatt

Bahttacharya, Bhattar, Bhattathiripad are some of the surnames derived from it.

I am not bothered really about what happened during the Pallva or Mogul age. What I have posted is what is prevalent today.

Anyway it has nothing to do with Nairs.

Most of the temple priests in Kerala are Embranthiris and Pottis who are not Namboodiris. They are Tulu/Kannda Brahmins. They are not learnt in the Vedas. Namboodiris only perform Puja for themselves or for the general community.

 

[Nacchinarkiniyan]

I do not think the average man on the street knows that present-day bengali brahmins were elevated from tribal priests.

Totally wrong. During the Sena dynasty Brahmins were brought from Kanyakubj and also South India. A number of books about Bengali Brahmins and their origin is available. They are a heterogeneous group. Senas themselves were Brahmins from South India who called themselves Brahma Kshatriyas. A term used by the Pallavas also.

 

[happyhindu]

In Bengal The name Mukerjee is the anglicization of the word Mukhopadyaya. Banerjee is Bandopadyaya and Chatterje is Chattopadyaya. These are derived from the term Upadyaya which means teacher. Upadyaya is a common Brahmin surname in U.P. Acharya is Guru. That is why Bhattacharya is the highest class of Brahmins. The common surname for the sculptors is Pal in west Bengal.

I may agree with you sir. As regards Upadhyay as a teacher i wud defintiely agree. It may refer to a philosopher (upa = sit near, as is used in upanishad). Buddhism was the most professed religion in Bengal for a time. I do not know how Upadhyaya wud refer to a purohit. Anyways, will look up more on bengali surnames. Nevertheless this does not change the fact that occupational roles have always been changing.

The term Bhatt means a priest or scribe in Sanskrit. It is a common surname throughout India.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhatt

Bahttacharya, Bhattar, Bhattathiripad are some of the surnames derived from it.

Not true sir. Bhatta cud mean other things too. There is something here: http://www.tamilbrahmins.com/general-discussions/2887-varna-jaathi-race-13.html#post29322

I am not bothered really about what happened during the Pallva or Mogul age. What I have posted is what is prevalent today.

ok sir

Anyway it has nothing to do with Nairs.

Kerala royalty needed ritualists. Groups elevating one another as 'brahmins' and 'kshatriyas' was not uncommon.

Most of the temple priests in Kerala are Embranthiris and Pottis who are not Namboodiris. They are Tulu/Kannda Brahmins. They are not learnt in the Vedas. Namboodiris only perform Puja for themselves or for the general community.

ok sir.

 

[happyhindu]

Totally wrong. During the Sena dynasty Brahmins were brought from Kanyakubj and also South India. A number of books about Bengali Brahmins and their origin is available. They are a heterogeneous group. Senas themselves were Brahmins from South India who called themselves Brahma Kshatriyas. A term used by the Pallavas also.

Anyone can claim anything upon coming to power. Anyone can create stories of their own origins. Genetics however can help us verify if claims are true or not, here is one post in that regard: http://www.tamilbrahmins.com/general-discussions/6434-consanguineous-marriages-2.html#post78532