Madae Snana at the Kukke Subramanya temple - 2013

[sarang]

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When BJP was in power, there was a huge hulla gulla on this event and hindutva was blamed; aggressive media coverage and harsh comments on brahmins and the temple authorities were made. All quiet this year - because congress is secular.

Saturday, Dec 7, 2013, 14:23 IST | Place: Kukke Subramanya

The first day of the three-day annual ritual of Madae Snana was held as usual at the Kukke Subramanya temple near Mangalore, even as anti-sentiments on holding the ritual raged outside.

While the practice—which involves rolling over leftovers of the lunch served to brahmins—has drawn a lot of flak from all quarters, especially from reformist activist groups, the temple authorities remained non-committal.
They said it was not an activity of the temple and devotees practice it on their own accord, adding that the temple cannot do anything to stop the practice.

R Mahadevappa, an activist of Hindulida Vargagala Jagurta Balaga, said: “The temple is tacitly supporting this evil practice by allowing devotees to participate in it. We appealed to the swamiji and to the state muzrai minister to stop it. But, our requests fell on deaf ears, and now we will appeal to the state and national human rights commissions.”

The People’s Union for Civil Liberties (PUCL) of Karnataka has taken a serious note of the practice. “How can anyone be allowed to roll on heaps of leftovers even on their own accord! Will they allow it if somebody volunteered to carry human excreta in public!” argued Patrick D’Sa, state president of PUCL. “It is a brazen violation of human rights.”
One of the temple authorities counter-argued: “It is a religious practice that the devotees take up on their own. The temple does not organise the event, it just organises the annual lunch for regular devotees.”

Gopinath, a devotee from Mysore, who is also part of the legal fraternity, said: “The right to religious practices is one of the fundamental rights enshrined in Constitution. How can a religious practice of one community be termed as unconstitutional by a class of people! The Constitution of India provides for freedom and right to practice any religion. In this case, devotees take up Madae Snana on their own accord and if we stop it legally, the state will be a party to violation of the constitutional rights of lakhs of devotees.” Gopinath and his family were among the participants in the ritual on Friday.

A volunteer at the event, Anni Malekudia, said devotees who undertake Madae Snana included people from even upper Hindu castes like brahmins.

http://www.sarvesamachar.com/click_frameset.php?ref_url=%2Findex.php%3F&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dnaindia.com%2Fbangalore%2Freport-bangalore-display-of-rollicking-faith-begins-1931164

 

[Brahmanyan]

When I was young I have witnessed this ritual in a Hanumat Jayanthi feast conducted by Madhwas in Karur. Instead of other communities, it was the members of the Madhwa community who rolled over the leaves left by the purohit - Brahmins after the feast. I am not going into the pros and cons of the practice, but for me it was a disgusting sight.
I wish the community leaders and their Acharyas should take action to stop this practice called Madae Snana in Kukke Subrahmanya Temple.

 

[sangom]

When I was young I have witnessed this ritual in a Hanumat Jayanthi feast conducted by Madhwas in Karur. Insead of other communities, it was the members of the Madhwa community who rolled over the leaves left by the purohit - Brahmins after the feast. I am not going into the pros and cons of the practice, but for me it was a disgusting sight.
I wish the community leaders and their Acharyas should take action to stop this practice called Madae Snana in Kukke Subrahmanya Temple.

I fully agree with the above sentiment of Shri Brahmanyan. Otherwise the believers should get a scientific study by a proper research team of doctors, psychologists, etc., and if it is found that this madae snaana really cures skin ailments, mental problems, etc., then the matter can be reconsidered.

BTW, similar practices are followed in more places also.

 

[sarang]

1. This is a voluntary act and is not imposed on anyone. Doctors and lawyers and other professionals come from as far as mumbai to do this.
2. During BJP rule, there was huge cry, demo and agitation from rationalists and communists and got a wide coverage in tv. I believe a compromise was achieved to lay out fresh leaves and fresh food (not leftover); there is no reference to this in the report.
3. Anti superstition bill is supposed to come down heavily on such practices. Already the maharashtra government is having reservations because self whipping and injuring with knife during processions will also come under this category. This cannot be doneas the issue is sensitive.
4. Kavadi and alagu, piercing oneself and walking on fire and bali which are more violent and injurious must also be banned. Tamilnadu JJ once banned animal sacrifice and quietly retracted. No explanation was given.

Anyway the temple authorities have said that they have nothing to with this practice. We must listen to the voice of the people who do this with faith and devotion as they are not harming anybody or any living being. If no one turns up, the practice will automatically stop. Last year when asked by a tv reporter, many said that they benefited and plan to come in future.

When I was young I have witnessed this ritual in a Hanumat Jayanthi feast conducted by Madhwas in Karur. Insead of other communities, it was the members of the Madhwa community who rolled over the leaves left by the purohit - Brahmins after the feast. I am not going into the pros and cons of the practice, but for me it was a disgusting sight.
I wish the community leaders and their Acharyas should take action to stop this practice called Madae Snana in Kukke Subrahmanya Temple.

 

[sarang]

What a stupid demand? Why believers should organise a scientific study? There are enough rationalists and doubting thomases for muddying the clear pool. Believers do it because they have benefited or strongly believe they will be benefited soon.

There is a strong evolving case now to combine physical, mental and spiritual methods and practices to cure diseases.

I fully agree with the above sentiment of Shri Brahmanyan. Otherwise the believers should get a scientific study by a proper research team of doctors, psychologists, etc., and if it is found that this madae snaana really cures skin ailments, mental problems, etc., then the matter can be reconsidered.

BTW, similar practices are followed in more places also.

 

[wrongan]

When no one asks you to come and join them or ask you to witness such happenings what made people to talk ill of such beliefs.It has become fassionable to talk ill of hindu rituals and more about Brahmin community out of jealosy of their organised customs .

 

[renuka]

A volunteer at the event, Anni Malekudia, said devotees who undertake Madae Snana included people from even upper Hindu castes like brahmins.

I have no problems with anyone undertaking any vows or rituals of any kind if they feel that would help them..so for me...no comments on Madae Snana but I would just like to highlight this point.

A volunteer at the event, Anni Malekudia, said devotees who undertake Madae Snana included people from even upper Hindu castes like brahmins.

This makes its sound that there should not be any problem in Madae Snana just becos upper castes like Brahmins too perform it.

Now this is what I disagree with!

If a ritual is carried out by anyone be it Sudra or Brahmin or anything else in between..if it works for them..its fine but it should not be made to sound as if an upper caste/Brahmin also do it so that means its the Gospel Truth and should not really be a problem.

This sort of thinking should change.

A person should be allowed to choose what he feels is right not just becos an upper caste/Brahmin said so or did so.

 

[sangom]

< edit >
If a ritual is carried out by anyone be it Sudra or Brahmin or anything else in between..if it works for them..its fine but it should not be made to sound as if an upper caste/Brahmin also do it so that means its the Gospel Truth and should not really be a problem.

This sort of thinking should change.

A person should be allowed to choose what he feels is right not just becos an upper caste/Brahmin said so or did so.

I disagree somewhat. At the purely personal level -where, as long as it does not impact on anyone else, including one's near and dear - one may do any ritual for getting any kind of results. But when we come to rituals like madae snaana which affect society, then the society at large has a say.

Consider the ritual "sati". Society had a say in it and it was the Englishman who made it a punishable offence and put it down ruthlessly. This madae snaana is, in my view, equally reprehensible and must be ended irrespective of whether high castes believe in it or not. Perhaps some petition to the UN to see whether this violates its Charter of Human Rights is called for.

Personally, I hold this madae snaana as one of the abominable relics of brahmin hegemony over the hindu society. Wonder whether Narendra Modi will put an effective stop to this or encourage it!!

 

[auh]

I fully agree with the above sentiment of Shri Brahmanyan. Otherwise the believers should get a scientific study by a proper research team of doctors, psychologists, etc., and if it is found that this madae snaana really cures skin ailments, mental problems, etc., then the matter can be reconsidered.

BTW, similar practices are followed in more places also.

I infer, from your posts elsewhere, that you seem to believe in karma.

This act could very well act as a "prayaschittam", to atone for any negative karma; obviously it would have results since the individuals rolling on those leaves are seen with apparent revulsion - a deep cut into the humility of persons to roll in the leftovers.

Just presenting a different viewpoint.

 

[auh]

I disagree somewhat. At the purely personal level -where, as long as it does not impact on anyone else, including one's near and dear - one may do any ritual for getting any kind of results. But when we come to rituals like madae snaana which affect society, then the society at large has a say.

I fail to see how this practice affects society. On the same logic, should we not condemn Moharram (Eid) where muslims cut themseles with knives? Why is a hue and cry made out only for this?

Consider the ritual "sati". Society had a say in it and it was the Englishman who made it a punishable offence and put it down ruthlessly. This madae snaana is, in my view, equally reprehensible and must be ended irrespective of whether high castes believe in it or not. Perhaps some petition to the UN to see whether this violates its Charter of Human Rights is called for.

"Thee midhi" (walking on fire), "alagu kuttharadhu" (pricking the body), animal sacrifices, fasting until death (a jain practice) etc. are equally reprehensible, and I wish the media/human rights bodies/NGOs/Govt. take it up as well, if they are truly for reform.

 

[vgane]

I disagree somewhat. At the purely personal level -where, as long as it does not impact on anyone else, including one's near and dear - one may do any ritual for getting any kind of results. But when we come to rituals like madae snaana which affect society, then the society at large has a say.

Consider the ritual "sati". Society had a say in it and it was the Englishman who made it a punishable offence and put it down ruthlessly. This madae snaana is, in my view, equally reprehensible and must be ended irrespective of whether high castes believe in it or not. Perhaps some petition to the UN to see whether this violates its Charter of Human Rights is called for.

Personally, I hold this madae snaana as one of the abominable relics of brahmin hegemony over the hindu society. Wonder whether Narendra Modi will put an effective stop to this or encourage it!!

How about rolling over the harsh rocks as in Angapradakshinam where pilgrims lie prostrate and then roll over...

Let us not compare with Sati which is giving up one's life (a sacrifice)

 

[sangom]

How about rolling over the harsh rocks as in Angapradakshinam where pilgrims lie prostrate and then roll over...

Let us not compare with Sati which is giving up one's life (a sacrifice)

angapradakshinam is also not a desirable thing; in my opinion temple itself should be dismissed with and worship/prayer must be confined to home.

Sati is most relevant because it concerns only with one's own life, whereas even in angapradakshinam, some inconvenience is invariably caused to others.