meaning for this please?

[drb]

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Hello all,
Can somebody please let me know the meaning of this tamil lines

"aNukule agandamada aNuvina thanithumada aparanatha vadiviladum aruNamoorthiye"

I would also appreciate if this song is has any roots to vedas or old traditional songs or newly written?

It is 2 lines from 'Om Namo Narayana' song/bhajan.



[video=youtube;oXTioET2SCQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXTioET2SCQ[/video]


Thank you in advance.

 

[sangom]

The correct Tamil version is as follows:

அணுக்குளே அகண்டமாட அணுவினால் அனைத்துமாட அபரநாத வடிவிலாடும் அருணமூர்த்தியே

(aṇukkuḷe akaṇṭamāṭa aṇuviṉāl aṉaittumāṭa aparanāta vaṭivilāṭum aruṇamūrttiye)

In this, the first word "aNukkuLE" is a shortened form for "aNuvukkuLLE" meaning, inside the atom or aNu; the shortening in this clumsy manner itself indicates that it is a 'make-shift' or 'make-do' type of composition.

அணுவினால் அனைத்துமாட aṇuviṉāl aṉaittumāṭa means that the atoms or aNus cause everything whatsoever to dance or vibrate, but this is far from true, as modern science shows us now.

அபரநாத aparanāta is not a very clear term unless it has a fixed meaning in Visishtadvaitha or Dwaitha lore, and I am not familiar with either. The best possible meaning, going by the context, may be the earliest nAtha or God, but the beauty of Sanskrit is that the adjective 'apara' can also mean, equally well, lower, hind part, inferior, etc. Hence the composer of this second rate bhajan song seems to have been forced to fit in the word "apara" due to his not being able to compose something of better quality!

அபரநாத வடிவிலாடும் aparanāta vaṭivilāṭum means one who dances in the form of the early (lower, hind quarters, inferior) God.

அருணமூர்த்தியே aruṇamūrttiye means one who is reddish in colour; this could refer to aruna, the charioteer of the Sun-god, or anyone who is reddish in colour, hue etc.

On the whole a second grade bhajan song; that's all.

 

[renuka]

On the whole a second grade bhajan song; that's all.

Dear Sangom ji,

Why do you say its a 2nd grade Bhajan?

A bhajan is love from the heart..can love be graded?

 

[Vaagmi]

I agree with Sri Sangom fully.

In this the composer has tried to coin words keeping in his mind the chandam which he had already determined in advance. That constraint is quite obvious. He did not have the class to do a master's job after tying himself down like this. It shows in the result.

Coming to its being a bhajan, yes, it does not really matter. One can just keep repeatig mara mara again again and still it will be just namasamkirtanam.

 

[drb]

Thank you Sangom'ji. I was asked meaning for those verse, I could figure out only couple of those words. Anyway, since you explained, it makes sense.

Renuka'ji - if we started appreciating (or depreciating) everything in life, then aren't we doing injustice ourselves? To the extent that taking a look at half glass full, is similarly disastrous to look half glass empty constantly. I feel there is nothing wrong in this positive criticism.

 

[renuka]

Renuka'ji - if we started appreciating (or depreciating) everything in life, then aren't we doing injustice ourselves? To the extent that taking a look at half glass full, is similarly disastrous to look half glass empty constantly. I feel there is nothing wrong in this positive criticism.

Dear Sir,

When it comes to a bhajan..even if the composer knows no Vibhakti..he might still have Bhakti which no Chanda of any kind can record.

At this stage of my life I do not want to see the glass as half full or half empty or even see the glass or the water for that matter.

Little imperfections make up the uniqueness in life.

So for that sake I am not going to find fault with another person's composition when very few of us can even compose half as good as that...so no grading Bhakti for me.

If you are discussing Vibhakti then your reply to me holds good...otherwise I think you know the answer yourself.

 

[drb]

Dear Sir,
When it comes to a bhajan..even if the composer knows no Vibhakti..he might still have Bhakti which no Chanda of any kind can record.
At this stage of my life I do not want to see the glass as half full or half empty or even see the glass or the water for that matter.
Little imperfections make up the uniqueness in life.
So for that sake I am not going to find fault with another person's composition when very few of us can even compose half as good as that...so no grading Bhakti for me.
If you are discussing Vibhakti then your reply to me holds good...otherwise I think you know the answer yourself.

I don't think he commented it as second grade bhakti - just the song itself. Inorder to follow the tune, he misfit few words - that was the take.
Even crow and other creatures, caw (or sound) with their own chandam. Ofcourse they are unique and who knows maybe 'bhajan'ing to God too. However, we don't enjoy the crow's as much as a pheasant's chirping. And nothing wrong in saying/commenting on that. If the crow feels offended or the pheasant gets headstrong, then it is their problem not the commentator's problem.

NOTE: The above analogy has nothing to do with actual bhajan or the singer. I was referring or implying practicality. Hence no offense intended.

Little imperfections make up the uniqueness in life.

Exactly!. So you agree that the song wasn't good. And Sangom was pointing to imperfections and it is not necessary to ignore the imperfections and celebrate out of pity to upkeep our moral standards. If I am doing a poor job, I would heartily welcome negative criticisms eventhough it pricks the heart. It is better learning with mistakes.

 

[P.J.]

The correct Tamil version is as follows:

அணுக்குளே அகண்டமாட அணுவினால் அனைத்துமாட அபரநாத வடிவிலாடும் அருணமூர்த்தியே

(aṇukkuḷe akaṇṭamāṭa aṇuviṉāl aṉaittumāṭa aparanāta vaṭivilāṭum aruṇamūrttiye)

In this, the first word "aNukkuLE" is a shortened form for "aNuvukkuLLE" meaning, inside the atom or aNu; the shortening in this clumsy manner itself indicates that it is a 'make-shift' or 'make-do' type of composition.

அணுவினால் அனைத்துமாட aṇuviṉāl aṉaittumāṭa means that the atoms or aNus cause everything whatsoever to dance or vibrate, but this is far from true, as modern science shows us now.

அபரநாத aparanāta is not a very clear term unless it has a fixed meaning in Visishtadvaitha or Dwaitha lore, and I am not familiar with either. The best possible meaning, going by the context, may be the earliest nAtha or God, but the beauty of Sanskrit is that the adjective 'apara' can also mean, equally well, lower, hind part, inferior, etc. Hence the composer of this second rate bhajan song seems to have been forced to fit in the word "apara" due to his not being able to compose something of better quality!

அபரநாத வடிவிலாடும் aparanāta vaṭivilāṭum means one who dances in the form of the early (lower, hind quarters, inferior) God.

அருணமூர்த்தியே aruṇamūrttiye means one who is reddish in colour; this could refer to aruna, the charioteer of the Sun-god, or anyone who is reddish in colour, hue etc.

On the whole a second grade bhajan song; that's all.

Well Explained sangom Sir, your wisdom is appreciated.

Probably only Smt VR Madam or Smt Raji Madam can match your proficiency in Tamil, (and a few others whom i am not aware of ), you are like NAKKERAN , the great Tamil Poet in this Forum.


[h=3][/h]

 

[CHANDRU1849]

Well Explained sangom Sir, your wisdom is appreciated.

Probably only Smt VR Madam or Smt Raji Madam can match your proficiency in Tamil, (and a few others whom i am not aware of ), you are like NAKKERAN , the great Tamil Poet in this Forum.

You should have mentioned any Alwar's name, since it relates to Vaishnavism.

Nakkeran was a Saivite. He even dared Lord Shiva in an argument. Have you seen the Tamil film Thiruvilayadal. AP Nagarajan, who directed the film, acted very well as Nakkeran.

 

[Visalakshi Ramani]

Well Explained sangom Sir, your wisdom is appreciated.

Probably only Smt VR Madam or Smt Raji Madam can match your proficiency in Tamil, (and a few others whom i am not aware of ), you are like NAKKERAN , the great Tamil Poet in this Forum.

Thank you Mr. P.J for the high regard you seem to have for
me and My dear sister for our knowledge in Pure & Poetic Tamil. ray2:

A Poem has to stick to a rhyme. A song has to stick to its rhythm.

This song is set in thisra gathi.

It will merge perfectly with the jathi "thakita thakita thakit thakita".

Converting of four letter words into three letter words makes them more

interesting. Poems and poets have this royal liberty and license.

Otherwise there can be no poetry at all!

Annai may become anai;
unnai may become unai,
ennai may become enai.
thannai may become thanai.
ULLam may become uLam.

Thisra gathi has a pep which no other gathi can match -

being the shortest and the crispest of all the five gathis.

The others are longer with 4, 5, 7 and 9 letters.

Calling a ware substandard is very easy-

but it will bear credibility only when we can produce

better wares before calling them malwares or substandard!

And those who have this rare gift do not indulge in this kind of activity

since they have experienced the pain and pleasure of creative writing.

 

[Vaagmi]

........
A Poem has to stick to a rhyme. A song has to stick to its rhythm.

Monai or Ethukai is not a must for a kavithai in Tamil. If it is there it adds beauty to it. There are kavithaikal without monai and ethukai which are what are called rhyme here in English. The Monai and Ethukai cannot be brought in for beauty at the cost of meaning and context. Then they do not remain monai or ethukai but just millstones round the neck of the kavithai. The issue here is just this. A street corner political orator may belt out A lot of ethukai monai etc., without making any point worth time and effort. There will be plenty of rhyme there but there will be no beauty. So rhyme should never look contrived in poetry and it should come as an embellishment in the natural flow of the language.

This song is set in thisra gathi.
It will merge perfectly with the jathi "thakita thakita thakit thakita".
Converting of four letter words into three letter words makes them more
interesting. Poems and poets have this royal liberty and license.
Otherwise there can be no poetry at all!

Annai may become anai;
unnai may become unai,
ennai may become enai.
thannai may become thanai.
ULLam may become uLam.

Thisra gathi has a pep which no other gathi can match -
being the shortest and the crispest of all the five gathis.
The others are longer with 4, 5, 7 and 9 letters.

Thisra gathi is about chandam and music in the poetry. Mr. Sangom's point is that beauty of the kavithai and the substance of the song is lost in the altar of excess concern for rhyme and rhythm. A good poet with a keen sense of music would have done a better job in the same chandam with equivalent appropriate words.

Calling a ware substandard is very easy-
but it will bear credibility only when we can produce
better wares before calling them malwares or substandard!

And those who have this rare gift do not indulge in this kind of activity
since they have experienced the pain and pleasure of creative writing.

This is taking the things to a personal level. We do not know who the poet is. There is no personal malaise involved here. A given piece has been just critically analysed by Sangom as is his practice. We attend music kutcheris of great vidwans and freely appreciate fine points of embellishment and criticise freely where we feel he could have done more justice to the raga. This does not require that we should be good performers in medai kurcheris as well. If only performing artistes can be critical of performing artistes the world will be a terribly boring place. Pain and pleasure of creative writing can be understood by every one who understands the pain and pleasure of it. They may write or not for various reasons. There is no need to go into that and critical analysis is not a private domain of any one.

 

[sangom]

The first Q in this OP is answered partially;

the second one yet to be answered and we are in the sixth page!!

Thanks for reminding about the second question.

The three Vedas, Rik, Yajur & Saama, do not AFAIK, deal with the concept of "aNu" in the sense of atom, although we will come across the familiar expression "aNOraNeeyAn mahatO maheeyAn" mostly in post-vedic scriptures; the KaThOpanishad seems to me to be, probably, the earliest such book, but I am ready to stand corrected.

The concept of "aNu" as the indivisible small part of matter belongs to the Vaiseshika Darsana of kaNAda. The nyAya school accepted the vaisEshika philosophy though neither of these give any primacy to the god-concept. The nyAya-vaisEshika system is considered as the Indian tradition of modern Physics and even some of the basic laws of modern (Newtonian) physics have been read into some of kaNAda's sutras. (Vai?e?ika S?tra - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

In this bhajan song the first words, viz., aNu(vu)kkuLE akhaNDamATa is not a clear concept as per physics. "akhaNDam" means the indivisible; it can mean either the (indivisible) atom or items like space, gravity or the electro-magnetic forces which are, so to say, universal. But, inside an atom (aNuvukkuLE) I think the gravitational force is practically irrelevant. Even the electro-magnetic field as such does not dance (ATa) or vibrate; it is the components of the atom which are in motion. Hence, the statement "aNuvukkuLE akhaNDamATa" is basically erroneous.

Again, "aNuvathAl anaitthum ATa" is also not correct. While we may say that the atoms or sub-atomic particles may be in eternal motion/vibration which we may colloquially say "ATa", it is not the case of modern physics that due to the atoms all material things are in a constant state of vibration. Hence this part also falls flat.

As far as old songs are concerned one that readily comes to my mind is the Thiruppukazh,

அதலசேடனாராட அகிலமேருமீதாட
அபினகாளி தானாட அவளோடன்று-

atalaceṭaṉārāṭa akilamerumītāṭa
apiṉakāḷi tāṉāṭa avaḷoṭaṉṟu-

Perhaps one may also cite other songs which deal with god dancing, like —

ஆடும் தெய்வம் நீ அருள்வாய்...
āṭum teyvam nī aruḷvāy...


இடதுபதம் தூக்கி ஆடும்...
iṭatupatam tūkki āṭum...


பாட்டும் நானே பாவமும் நானே...நான் அசைந்தால் அசையும் அகிலமெல்லாமே...etc.
pāṭṭum nāṉe pāvamum nāṉe...nāṉ acaintāl acaiyum akilamellāme...etc.

 

[Raji Ram]

Thanks for the detailed post, Sangom Sir.

Obviously, the composer might not have thought of physics while writing this bhajan.

When I think of the word aNu, the first thought that comes to my mind is 'avanindRi OraNuvum asaiyAdhu!',

which I firmly believe, always!

 

[drb]

Hats off to Moderator/Administrator for cleaning out the thread from useless information upon my solicitation.

I apologize for giving you a chance to do this messy work.

Furthermore if there were more self-restraint and professionalism involved, this wouldn't have happened in the first place.

Sangom'ji - Thanks so much for further clarification.