Modi Puts Hindu Myths at Center of India Politics By John Elliott

[prasad1]

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India’s prime minister, Narendra Modi, has caused some consternation and controversy by saying to an audience of doctors and scientists last weekend that plastic surgery and genetic science existed and were in use thousands of years ago in ancient India. That, he said at the dedication of a hospital in Mumbai on October 25, was how the Hindu god Ganesh’s elephant head became attached to a human body, and how a warrior god was born outside his mother’s womb.


The theme of Modi’s speech was that India needed to improve its (grossly inadequate) health care facilities, which is in line with campaigns he has launched for cleanliness and the provision and use of toilets in schools and elsewhere. Quoting the ancient Mahabharat epic, he extended this to say that “our ancestors made big contributions” in such areas and that those capabilities needed to be regained.


The speech (at a hospital funded by the Ambani family of Reliance, one of India’s two biggest industrial groups) is on the prime minister’s office website in Hindi, and the Indian Express has published some of the paragraphs with an English translation:“We can feel proud of what our country achieved in medical science at one point of time. We all read about Karna in Mahabharat. If we think a little more, we realize that Mahabharat says Karna was not born from his mother’s womb. This means that genetic science was present at that time. That is why Karna could be born outside his mother’s womb. ... We worship Lord Ganesh. There must have been some plastic surgeon at that time who got an elephant’s head on the body of a human being and began the practice of plastic surgery.”


Modi’s remarks are significant for three reasons. One is the unusual position of a prime minister who makes such utterances as fact, which caused consternation and was debated earlier this week on the Headlines Today To the Point TV channel. The second is that, apart from that program, there has been very little coverage of this part of his speech in the Indian media, which has been largely fighting shy of criticizing or questioning Modi and his ministers since the general election.


The third reason is that it controversially illustrates how Hindu nationalist views are moving to center stage now that the BJP is in power. Activists have a simple vision of building a strong India that is respected worldwide as a modern version of an ancient Hindu civilization, which is the pivotal point of their view of history. It is this vision that drives Modi and many of his ministers, raising the question of how much they would disturb India’s broad-based traditions and view of history that have been built since independence by Congress governments to embrace Muslims and other minorities. Re-writing school textbooks is part of the government’s program, as it was when the BJP was last in power.


That Modi supports theories such as Ganesh’s head is well known. He has spoken about them before and propagated them in schools when he was chief minister of Gujarat, writing the preface of a book that claimed the ancient inventions of motor cars, airplanes and origins of stem cell research.


In a similar vein, Modi’s water resources minister, Uma Bharti, has revived a geological search for the mystical River Saraswati, which is mentioned in Vedic texts and is alleged to flow roughly parallel to the Indus from the Himalayas to the Arabian sea.
The Ramayana, the Hindu religion’s most popular epic dating from 3,000 years ago, has for seven or more years been the basis of opposition to a project to dig a shipping channel in the Palk Straits between the southern tip of India and Sri Lanka. It has been argued the channel would breach a crop of rocks known as Adam’s Bridge (or Ram Setu) that Lord Ram built across the straits so that his armies could rescue his wife Sita from the clutches of the Lankan king.


Such suggestions and actions need to be seen in the context of Indians’ every-day lives, which absorb mythologies and religions without necessarily questioning and analyzing the boundaries between mythological and religious beliefs and modern reality.


What is unusual is to have a prime minister say Ganesh was the product of plastic surgery without acknowledging that accuracy cannot be vouched for in the empirical western sense of history, even though inspirational mythology usually has some basis in truth.

http://www.newsweek.com/modi-puts-hindu-myths-center-india-politics-281002

A symbolic story is not a scientific proof.

 

[sarang]

A primer for the literates: from swami sivananda

The Puranas

​

The Puranas are of the same class as the Itihasas. They have fivecharacteristics (Pancha-Lakshana) viz., history, cosmology (with varioussymbolical illustrations of philosophical principles), secondary creation,genealogy of kings and of Manvantaras. All the Puranas belong to the class ofSuhrit-Samhitas.

Vyasa is the compiler of the Puranas from age to age; and for this age, heis Krishnadvaipayana, the son of Parasara.

The Puranas were written to popularise the religion of the Vedas. Theycontain the essence of the Vedas. The aim of the Puranas is to impress on theminds of the masses the teachings of the Vedas and to generate in them devotionto God, through concrete examples, myths, stories, legends, lives of saints,kings and great men, allegories and chronicles of great historical events. Thesages made use of these things to illustrate the eternal principles ofreligion. The Puranas were meant, not for the scholars, but for the ordinarypeople who could not understand high philosophy and who could not study theVedas.

 

[sarang]

Swamy Chinmayanada on Puranas:

Much controversy has surrounded the question of whether the Puranas are historically true. Vyasa was not a historian, and therefore did not write history. He was a great student of the Vedas and a man of realization. All the stories must ultimately be indicative of the one Truth. It is a unique literature. It is not a literature that can fall under the category of philosophy or history, nor can it be approximated by the West as mythology. The nearest kind of literature in the west that approaches our Pauranic stories is the mythology of the Greeks and Romans. And so the West calls the Pauranic literature as "Hindu mythology". The Hindus have no mythology; nor did the Hindu Rishis ever care for history. History is only a chronological account of the repeated stupidities of the past. Human beings have never learned from history. Besides, history is limited in time, and what the seeker is interested in is the timeless, the source from which all this springs. So what is the Pauranic literature? To those who have ears to listen (not just hear) and to those who have eyes to see, Vyasa has already announced what it is: Purana. Purana Purusha is the word used in the Vedas for the highest Reality; therefore, the highest Reality is obviously the theme of the Puranas.

 

[sarang]

They who stick to western sources, and do not visit indian authors of old and new, and have hatred and disrespect for hindu literature will suffer the same fate as JNU historians, whose books and papers and claimed facts are in disrepute. Attacking anything and everything connected with hinduism is passe, and will soon fall by the way side.

More and more people will quote and take references from hindu scriptures in their work, speeches and actions.

 

[sangom]

They who stick to western sources, and do not visit indian authors of old and new, and have hatred and disrespect for hindu literature will suffer the same fate as JNU historians, whose books and papers and claimed facts are in disrepute. Attacking anything and everything connected with hinduism is passe, and will soon fall by the way side.

More and more people will quote and take references from hindu scriptures in their work, speeches and actions.

Shri Sarang ji,

I feel it is not yet time for such extreme exuberance on our part. After all, Obama will indicate to Modi where he (Modi) should shut his mouth and that will have to be obeyed, despite Ganesha's Plastic surgery, Karna's in-vitro fertilization, and all the holy blabberings of different "-anandas". That is the reality of the present, is it not?

 

[prasad1]

On Thursday Oct. 23 (you could see it in USA), beasts will race across the sky, attack the sun and take a big bite out of it — or at least that is what civilization after civilization believed happened during a solar eclipse.


The less dramatic and more scientific explanation is that the moon will pass between the sun and the Earth at around 6 p.m. ET tonight, giving people in North America quite a show. But the science behind the phenomenon escaped many of our ancestors.


"Most of eclipse lore is based around the concept that there is something attacking the sun or the moon, and people have a role to play in stopping it," Dr. E.C. Krupp, who has been acting director of the Griffith Observatory since 1974, told NBC News.


Like Homer Simpson chomping on a doughnut, the gods of ancient myths were always munching on the sun, which completely freaked out the laypeople.

No scientific basis
Scientists and astronomers around the world have debunked any such claims. There is no scientific evidence that solar eclipses can affect human behavior, health or the environment. Scientists, however, do emphasize that anyone watching a solar eclipse must protect their eyes.

That will the next "scientific fact" proclaimed by RSS.

 

[prasad1]

Much controversy has surrounded the question of whether the Puranas are historically true. Vyasa was not a historian, and therefore did not write history. He was a great student of the Vedas and a man of realization. All the stories must ultimately be indicative of the one Truth. It is a unique literature. It is not a literature that can fall under the category of philosophy or history, nor can it be approximated by the West as mythology. The nearest kind of literature in the west that approaches our Pauranic stories is the mythology of the Greeks and Romans. And so the West calls the Pauranic literature as "Hindu mythology". The Hindus have no mythology; nor did the Hindu Rishis ever care for history. History is only a chronological account of the repeated stupidities of the past. Human beings have never learned from history. Besides, history is limited in time, and what the seeker is interested in is the timeless, the source from which all this springs. So what is the Pauranic literature? To those who have ears to listen (not just hear) and to those who have eyes to see, Vyasa has already announced what it is: Purana. Purana Purusha is the word used in the Vedas for the highest Reality; therefore, the highest Reality is obviously the theme of the Puranas.

Talk of taking points out of context. Was this talk held in a Science class or spiritual class? _nanda was not a scientist talking to others scientists.

Those who adhere to the flat Earth theory have certain answers to criticisms of their theory. Charles Johnson, who was a president of the Flat Earth Society, said that the Moon landing was also a hoax and that it was scripted and filmed on a set in Hollywood. Gravity is seen as a mystical force – that does not exist – to many who believe in the flat Earth theory. Charles Johnson accepted Aristotle’s idea that things naturally fall downwards. Adherents to the flat Earth theory have often been criticized and parodied.

 

[sarang]

It has been argued the channel would breach a crop of rocks known as Adam’s Bridge (or Ram Setu) that Lord Ram built across the straits so that his armies could rescue his wife Sita from the clutches of the Lankan king.

It should be ram setu, called as adam's bridge by the british. It is known as ram setu for thousands of years.

Uma Bharti, has revived a geological search for the mystical River Saraswati, which is mentioned in Vedic texts and is alleged to flow roughly parallel to the Indus from the Himalayas to the Arabian sea.

Existence of saraswati has been mapped and proved by satellite imaging and ground studies. Efforts are on to revive it and restore water flow.

The author of the article has done a copy-paste job without doing any study and has not updated his knowledge. At least re copy paste can be done with some more honesty.

 

[sangom]

I feel that the Modi government has realized the enormity of the task of governing this country and the woeful inadequacy of Modi's tactics, for this purpose. Though international oil prices have come down, our food prices have not. Plus, a group of old, disgruntled but yet influential group of elderly leaders within the ruling party has been ostracized, rather unwittingly, because they will be obstacles to the "adhinayakatva" of Modi, perhaps. The ministers comprise those who have been intimidated and those who were misled into believing that Modi could be used to remove Congress from power but did not realize, then, that the same Modi will transform into a superman and sweep them into a corner like garbage! Then there are many lesser mortals, within the ministry, who live in complete awe and fear of the Adhinayak!

Modi came to power talking about the march forward to a Super Power status and he was shrewd enough to not raise the hindutva facet during his campaigning. But much to the chagrin of RSS and its organizations, many of the policies of the government, indicated so far, seem to be neither here, nor there. A person unfamiliar with boat journey will find it very difficult to help keep the balance of the boat; he will lean this way and that, and rock the boat until the boat capsizes. Probably the PM finds himself in a similar situation.

I personally feel that Modi, for all his veneration of Puranas, Itihasas and myths of hindu religion, ought to have consulted some good astrologers and must have taken the oath of office before noon. It was a very inauspicious time the swearing-in was done. (The President might be a believer in astrology!). The immediate ill-omen was the death of the not-very-old Gopinath Munde. Next year will be more difficult and less impressive, for this govt., by way of performance of the govt., that the only good thing to do now may be to hark back to the glorious Bharat, and try to sustain the euphoria in the minds of the gullible public! But the Chinese seem to have gauged matters correctly and showed it by brazenly encroaching on our territory just when their President was shaking hands with our PM in Amdawad.

 

[prasad1]

The two faces of Mr. Modi
KARAN THAPAR
What do we expect of our prime ministers? This is not a rhetorical question and you’ll soon see why. We expect integrity, commitment, dedication, administrative expertise and, hopefully, a fair modicum of intelligence. But is that all?


As important as all the other qualities, we also expect rationality. We may not always agree with what our prime ministers say or are committed to do but we assume that their thoughts and actions are rational, well-considered and credible. In other words, even if their decisions turn out to be wrong — and that often happens — they won’t offend against common sense.


It is here that I have a bone to pick with Narendra Modi. Speaking at the inauguration of the Sir H.N. Reliance Foundation Hospital and Research Centre last Saturday, he said: “Mahabharat ka kehna hai ki Karn maa ki godh se paida nahi hua tha. Iska matlab yeh hai ki us samaye genetic science mojud tha … Hum Ganeshji ki puja kiya karte hain, koi to plastic surgeon hoga us zamane main, jisne manushye ke sharir par haathi ka sar rakh kar ke plastic surgery ka prarambh kiya hoga.” [It is said in the Mahabharata that Karna was not born from his mother’s womb. This means in the times in which the epic was written genetic science was very much present. We all worship Lord Ganesha; for sure there must have been some plastic surgeon at that time, to fit an elephant’s head on the body of a human being.]


No doubt many Hindus share Mr. Modi’s assumption that in prehistoric mythological times India had mastered genetic science and plastic surgery. As individuals they are free to believe what they want. But for the Prime Minister of India to proclaim this belief as fact — and that too at the inauguration of a hospital — is something else.


Why? This is because it’s not rational to use mythology as the basis for claiming scientific achievements. First, there’s no proof other than the assumption the myth is true and that’s an unwarranted assumption. Second, how do you account for the fact the scientific knowledge and achievements you are boasting of have been lost, if not also long forgotten, and there is no trace of any records to substantiate they ever occurred?


Even worse, Mr. Modi’s views echo those of Dinanath Batra. His books are now part of the curriculum in 42,000 schools across Gujarat and carry messages from Mr. Modi when he was Chief Minister. They claim stem cell research was known in the days of Kunti and the Kauravas, television was invented at the time of the Mahabharata and the motor car existed in the Vedic period. Few would deny this is nonsense. Why wouldn’t you say the same for the claim India mastered genetic science and plastic surgery in prehistoric times?


I have two further points. First, Mr. Modi wants to build smart cities, stresses the need for education and is proud of the successful mission to Mars. He believes in digital India, wants to import bullet trains and ‘Make in India’ state-of-the-art defence weaponry. These are 21st century ambitions. How does all of that sit alongside this belief in unverified mythology? Are they not contradictory?


Second, Greek mythology has centaurs and minotaurs; the Persians have the griffin; the British the unicorn; and fairy tales have mermaids and werewolves. Mr. Modi’s position would also lead us to believe these creatures actually existed. But does anyone believe they did? Surely only in our dreams? Or only whilst we were children? (one member on this site is an exception).


Ultimately, my problem with the Prime Minister’s comment goes a step further, but it could be the most critical of all. Under Article 51 A (h) of the Constitution it’s the fundamental duty of every citizen to develop a scientific temper. I can’t see how the Prime Minister is doing that by blatantly claiming medical advances on the basis of unverified myths. His views clearly and undeniably contradict this constitutional requirement. In fact, if he thinks about it I feel confident Mr. Modi would not disagree!


These are troubling doubts and for the Prime Minister to be the cause of them is even more worrying. Finally, I’m dismayed this issue has not got greater attention in the media. Nor, to my astonishment, has any Indian scientist refuted the Prime Minister’s claims. Their silence is perplexing. The silence of the media is deeply disturbing. It feels as though it’s been deliberately blanked out by everyone.

The two faces of Mr. Modi - The Hindu

 

[sangom]

The two faces of Mr. Modi
KARAN THAPAR
What do we expect of our prime ministers? This is not a rhetorical question and you’ll soon see why. We expect integrity, commitment, dedication, administrative expertise and, hopefully, a fair modicum of intelligence. But is that all?

< Clipped >

These are troubling doubts and for the Prime Minister to be the cause of them is even more worrying. Finally, I’m dismayed this issue has not got greater attention in the media. Nor, to my astonishment, has any Indian scientist refuted the Prime Minister’s claims. Their silence is perplexing. The silence of the media is deeply disturbing. It feels as though it’s been deliberately blanked out by everyone.

The two faces of Mr. Modi - The Hindu

Highlighted portion — A Fourth Reich in the offing?

Of course, we can safely forget any hope of becoming a Super Power, because all our younger generation children will grow up to fully believe that Ganapathy was a plastic surgery product, Karna was an in-vitro fertilization, the Kauravas were from stem cell research and so on. I only hope all such "Indian values" will be dutifully inculcated by ardent PIOs in their children's minds also!

 

[vgane]

Is there conclusive proof that Kunti was not born outside his mothers womb? Or is there concrete proof that Lord Ganesha's head was not created by plastic surgery!

Have you been to the Garbha Rakshambigai temple in Thirukarukavur in Tanjore District!..When the foetus of Vedigai ( wife of Nidhruva) descended from womb, The Goddesses put that in a sacred pot & protected the foetus and after some months a male child Naidhruvan was born! Is there conclusive proof against this scientific miracle?

 

[sarang]

Karan thapar made a very nasty and threatening statement that modi must be stopped suddenly, meaning eliminated. Had he made this against any other leader, he would have been put behind bars. He has no voice worth listening.
The emerging generation will be wiser by learning the scriptures including puranas from proper sources who can explain the ethical, spiritual and temporal content. Carl Sagan could comprehend the wisdom contained in Hindu scriptures - space, large numbers, multiple universes, creation and cyclic nature. Any scientist with unpoisoned mind will draw parallels, new ideas and methods from such a study.

 

[prasad1]

Is there conclusive proof that Kunti was not born outside his mothers womb? Or is there concrete proof that Lord Ganesha's head was not created by plastic surgery!

Have you been to the Garbha Rakshambigai temple in Thirukarukavur in Tanjore District!..When the foetus of Vedigai ( wife of Nidhruva) descended from womb, The Goddesses put that in a sacred pot & protected the foetus and after some months a male child Naidhruvan was born! Is there conclusive proof against this scientific miracle?

Do you believe every fiction, including science fictions. There is a "land bridge" between India and sri lanka, that is a fact. Was it built by Ram and his Army is not proven. An element of truth in a story does not prove the story.
Are you saying that a dead elephant head can be attached to a dead human body? First of all even today we still do not know enough about transplants, secondly organs have to be harvested. You can not take organs from Cadavers for transplanting.Size is one of the considerations for organ match. Human body has effective measures for rejecting foreign body.

You can not validate one myth with another myth. You are a man of science and technology let us be reasonable.

Organ Matching Process
Common Elements
Many of the elements considered in matching organs from deceased donors to patients on the waiting list are the same for all organs. These usually include: blood type, body size, severity of patient's medical condition, distance between the donor's hospital and the patient's hospital, the patient's waiting time, and the availability of the potential recipient (e.g., the patient can be contacted and has no current infection or other temporary reason that transplant cannot take place).


For certain organs, other factors must be considered. And, some of the common elements take on increased importance for specific organs. For example, thoracic organs such as the heart and lungs can survive outside the body for only 4-6 hours while kidneys can survive up to 36 hours and livers, up to 12. Therefore, distance between the donor's hospital and the potential recipient's hospital is more important for matching hearts and lungs than it is for kidneys or livers.

Research is being done in this field and advances are being made. But I see no hope of transplanting Heads or a Child being raised outside of the womb yet.
Edgar Rice Burroughs' The Mastermind of Mars involves a surgeon who does this as his main operation, and a man from Earth, the narrator and main character, who is trained to do it as well.


Robert Heinlein's 1970 science fiction novel, I Will Fear No Evil, features a main character named Johann Sebastian Bach Smith whose entire brain is transplanted into his deceased secretary's skull.


A similar procedure often found in science fiction is the transfer of one consciousness to another without moving the brain.

 

[renuka]

Do you believe every fiction, including science fictions. There is a "land bridge" between India and sri lanka, that is a fact. Was it built by Ram and his Army is not proven. An element of truth in a story does not prove the story.
Are you saying that a dead elephant head can be attached to a dead human body? First of all even today we still do not know enough about transplants, secondly organs have to be harvested. You can not take organs from Cadavers for transplanting.Size is one of the considerations for organ match. Human body has effective measures for rejecting foreign body.

You can not validate one myth with another myth. You are a man of science and technology let us be reasonable.

Organ Matching Process
Common Elements
Many of the elements considered in matching organs from deceased donors to patients on the waiting list are the same for all organs. These usually include: blood type, body size, severity of patient's medical condition, distance between the donor's hospital and the patient's hospital, the patient's waiting time, and the availability of the potential recipient (e.g., the patient can be contacted and has no current infection or other temporary reason that transplant cannot take place).


For certain organs, other factors must be considered. And, some of the common elements take on increased importance for specific organs. For example, thoracic organs such as the heart and lungs can survive outside the body for only 4-6 hours while kidneys can survive up to 36 hours and livers, up to 12. Therefore, distance between the donor's hospital and the potential recipient's hospital is more important for matching hearts and lungs than it is for kidneys or livers.

Research is being done in this field and advances are being made. But I see no hope of transplanting Heads or a Child being raised outside of the womb yet.

A simple fact Modi forgot...plastic surgery is not about fixing and gluing body parts.

To transfer the head of an elephant to a human..you need a team of vascular surgeons and neurosurgeon and lots of steroids to prevent graft rejection that too from interspecies organ transfer.

I wonder how will the human vascular system cope with a massive sized head?

So that would make the heart pump more and you will have cardiomegaly and heart failure..so you need a team of cardiologist too.

Then you also need a team of veterinarians to monitor pacyhderm response.

A MRI brain of would have also been needed to monitor vascular network of the brain..so you would need a team of radiologist too.


Now the simple question that Modi forgot is:

1)if a team could do an elephant to human transplant..couldnt they just have used Ganesha's original human head and stuck it back?

 

[prasad1]

If Mr Modi wanted to toot India's trumpet on the plastic surgery front, he could have quoted the Susruta Samhita's astonishingly detailed account of reconstructive plastic surgery. Parke-Davis once published a lavishly illustrated book, Great Moments in Medicine. It had a marvelous chapter on Susruta's achievement in restoring female noses cut off by jealous ancient Indian husbands. But instead of citing the inspirational breakthroughs of this bona fide desi genius who lived and worked in the 6th century B.C., the Prime Minister chose to give us Ganesh.

The other explanation for the Prime Minister saying something he didn't actually believe could be that his speech was intended not for the doctors in the audience, but his primary constituency, the TV-watching public. The logic of this would have Mr Modi saying just anything to inspire warm fuzzy feelings in the hearts of credulous voters who need imaginary ancient successes to distract them from India's contemporary failures. That seems a cynical interpretation because it suggests either a chronic need to pander, or a contempt for the intelligence of the ordinary Indian that we have no reason to believe Mr Modi feels.

Prime Minister actually believes in ancient Indian head transplants and out-of-body baby-making. On the face of it, this is an absurd belief. Forget the complicated reasons why these transplants can't happen, like the impossibility of getting elephant tissue to 'take' when sewn on to a human being. Just think of the physical mismatch. The average elephant's neck is more than two feet in diameter; the human neck, even if we choose a very large human, is unlikely to exceed eight inches. How would you fix the one on the other?

 

[prasad1]

1)if a team could do an elephant to human transplant..couldnt they just have used Ganesha's original human head and stuck it back?

That is the most pertinent question. The stories are written with messages in it. Instead of focussing on the technical details and trying to prove the impossible we should try to understand the moral value. A story teller is not bound by realities.

Since the technology required to reattach a severed spinal cord has not yet been developed, the subject of a head transplant would become quadriplegic unless proper therapies were developed. This technique has been proposed as possibly useful for people who are already quadriplegics and who are also suffering from widespread organ failures which would otherwise require several distinct and difficult transplant surgeries. It may also be useful for people who would rather be quadriplegic than dead. The consensus on the ethics of such a procedure is negative.

 

[sangom]

Is there conclusive proof that Kunti was not born outside his mothers womb? Or is there concrete proof that Lord Ganesha's head was not created by plastic surgery!

Have you been to the Garbha Rakshambigai temple in Thirukarukavur in Tanjore District!..When the foetus of Vedigai ( wife of Nidhruva) descended from womb, The Goddesses put that in a sacred pot & protected the foetus and after some months a male child Naidhruvan was born! Is there conclusive proof against this scientific miracle?

What is your view about Vyushitasva's episode?

 

[auh]

I think it is a wrong approach by the PM... who , incidentally holds no degree in medicine or science.

But, for example, when any govt head of state participates in iftar or in any christian festival and extolls the religion, does it not indirectly indicate that he respects all that is said in the respective religion? Including its wonderful, or rather, fantastical imaginations.

 

[vgane]

What is your view about Vyushitasva's episode?

No Sangom Sir..I am not ware about this..Can you share the details

 

[renuka]

That is the most pertinent question. The stories are written with messages in it. Instead of focussing on the technical details and trying to prove the impossible we should try to understand the moral value. A story teller is not bound by realities.

Sometime back there was a controversy where a Muslim scholar commented that how can Lord Shiva protect His Bhaktas when He could not even recognize His own son Ganesha and beheaded him.

Now with Modi saying that ancient plastic surgeons attached an elephants head to a human body that means the Lord Shiva did indeed behead His son and did not even realize that Ganesha is His son..so that would only strengthen the fact that Lord Shiva knows not!

I am very "disappointed" with what Modi said in his speech becos I thought he would have understood that Puranic stories are symbolic.

If one takes it literally we have to face the question "Can a God that did not recognize His own son recognize His Bhakta in need ?"

Next time if any Non Hindu asks this..we should reply "Kindly ask Modi"

 

[sarang]

Next time if any Non Hindu asks this..we should reply "Kindly ask Modi"

Highly dangerous. He/she may become a modi bhakt and become a practicing hindu, as many white americans have done.

 

[GOPI.S]

It is very interesting that people forget that the PM who had used puranas in his speech is the one using the social media for elections. He is the one who had hailed the scientific advancements of ISRO, the necessity of bullet trains and had successfully transformed the transport system of AHMEDABAD. It is one thing to feel proud of your past which may not be now be proven and other thing to assimilate and use the present technology for the welfare of common people. You take inspiration from your past and you do not use the same tools of that age for your advancement. Unfortunately, people like ELLIOT are scary whenever our past glory is talked about. Like our english educated secular elite, he has a misgiving that the minorities may be affected by MODI's governance.

 

[sangom]

No Sangom Sir..I am not ware about this..Can you share the details

The history (not story, because people like to take everything in Mahabharata as gospel truth and nothing but gospel truth!) of Vyushitasva was told to Pandu by Kunti; Pandu wanted very much to father a son of his own, because he firmly believed that without a son born from his own semen, the gates of heaven would be permanently closed for him. The curse of the Rishi Kindama had not yet been pronounced but Pandu had great anxiety about his sexual ability, and so Kunti, knowing very well Pandu's desire for siring a son, tells this history and tries to build confidence in him.

"This story is narrated by Kunti to her husband Pandu in [Maha:1.121]. In ancient times, there was a King named Vyushitaswa, in the dynasty of Puru. He was a righteous king, ever devoted to the cause of truth and justice. He once performed a great sacrifice, which was visited by the best sages and the celestials. So drunk did the celestials, especially Indra become with the Soma juice in this sacrifice, that they started performing the sacrifice themselves.
Since the Gods had themselves performed the sacrifice for this king, his glory spread far and wide. He performed the great Ashwamedha (horse) sacrifice, to mark his conquest of the world. After this, he ruled over his subject justly. There was no hunger in his kingdom, no body did anything that was not proper.
The King's glory continued to increase and he performed various other sacrifices to propitiate the Gods, including the Agnishtoma sacrifice. He married Bhadra, who was the daughter of a king (?) named Kakshivat. This woman was rivalled the Apsaras in beauty. Tragedy struck them, and the king died of phthisis, brought on by sexual excess.
His queen, Bhadra was grief-struck. With the husband's corpse in front of her, she began to lament her fate. "O my husband", she said, "Women have purpose in life when their husband passes away. Their existence is miserable after the Lord of their life is dead. I cannot support life without you. May the Gods take pity upon me and strike me dead, so that I may join you in the regions meant for the virtuous. O King, you have fallen into the sleep from which none may wake, let the Gods grant the same boon to me. I shall lie down upon a bed of grass and abstain from food. May the Gods be kind enough to grant me a sight of you as you were before death, even if it merely for a moment!"
As she wept over her lord, an incorporeal voice from the heavens said in a booming voice, "Rise up, O daughter, Go to your apartment. I grant you this boon. You shall be blessed with offspring soon. Lie down with this corpse on you bed, after purifying yourself with a bath. Illustrious children shall be born to you." (http://www.apamnapat.com/articles/StoriesFromMahabharata640.html)

She did as directed, and the corpse of her husband begat upon her Seven children, namely, three Salwas and four Madras.
This story is narrated by Kunti, extorting her husband to raise offspring upon her by his ascetic power."

I have given the Chapter and so please don't ask me for conclusive proof, etc.

By what medical procedure was Vyushitasva's wife made pregnant by his dead body and what conclusive evidence do we have for that technique?

You may also like to read the (true) histories and the medical miracles of ancient Bharat, as explained by Sage Vyasa in the true biographies of Uparichara Vasu, Girika, Adrika, Satyavati and Matsya, etc. We normally give opinions without (even) bothering to read our scriptures carefully. What medical miracle did ancient India have as concrete proof that births such as Satyavati's and Matsya's could have happened in the way described?

 

[sarang]

He said what is known to majority of hindus who have learnt puranic episodes from their grand mothers. Many quote episodes and ideas from other religious and secular panths as well; the audience is wise enough to separate what is relevant to them depending on their theistic or agnostic or idiotic persuasion.

One tambram (?) journalist, mukund kesavan I think, wished modi should have talked about sushruta and his surgery techniques. Less number of people know ayurveda, ancient medical practices and related literature.

Aim may be to make doctors aware of what is possible and perhaps was possibly done and carry over of faith over several millenniums.

Anyway the puranic beheading happened in a different yuga and different loka and with different gods.

Modi knows what he is doing and what he is saying. All this jumping by the media and sodalog will not make an iota of difference to the the new path the country is headed.

I think it is a wrong approach by the PM... who , incidentally holds no degree in medicine or science.

But, for example, when any govt head of state participates in iftar or in any christian festival and extolls the religion, does it not indirectly indicate that he respects all that is said in the respective religion? Including its wonderful, or rather, fantastical imaginations.