Jaykay, what about kaasu..panam..dhuddu..money money??!!
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Money Management – key areas to focus when creating a Portfolio !!
- Thread starter Jaykay767
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Jaykay, what about kaasu..panam..dhuddu..money money??!!
jaykay,
not sure if everyone can retire by 30s end. what i have suggested to my children, is at any time, they should have two separate skillsets, both generating money, so that they are not dependent on only one source.
in many cases it is two income family, that may satisfy this criterion, but then the family should be able to live on one income. atleast survive and meet the basic bills with one income.
i say this from personal experience. i am 63+ now, and at two short spans of my life, i was under very bad bosses, or once a very bad prejudiced assistant. the effect was telling, in these three separate instances, i lost my hair, came up with ulcers and went into depression. none of these were more than three months stretch each. fortunately understanding senior management saved me from disaster. again, if i quit, i was fearful of not getting another job.
for single income family, one must have 6 months of money saved up - to pay the bills and live minimally. 6 months is a good enough time to find another job, i hope, though i have known folks who have lost their jobs in their 40s and never found another.
two separate skillsets - or even ability to consult on your office skillset - is a must these days of job insecurity.
AND MORE IMPORTANT - money management should be a mandatory subject in every high school, along with entrepreneurship. need not be for exam grades, but for knowledge base - each one 6 months during the final year.
I like the last line-money management and entrepreneurship being made mandatory in schools. it should be for parents along with students.parents require it more than studentsIMO.jaykay,
not sure if everyone can retire by 30s end. what i have suggested to my children, is at any time, they should have two separate skillsets, both generating money, so that they are not dependent on only one source.
in many cases it is two income family, that may satisfy this criterion, but then the family should be able to live on one income. atleast survive and meet the basic bills with one income.
i say this from personal experience. i am 63+ now, and at two short spans of my life, i was under very bad bosses, or once a very bad prejudiced assistant. the effect was telling, in these three separate instances, i lost my hair, came up with ulcers and went into depression. none of these were more than three months stretch each. fortunately understanding senior management saved me from disaster. again, if i quit, i was fearful of not getting another job.
for single income family, one must have 6 months of money saved up - to pay the bills and live minimally. 6 months is a good enough time to find another job, i hope, though i have known folks who have lost their jobs in their 40s and never found another.
two separate skillsets - or even ability to consult on your office skillset - is a must these days of job insecurity.
AND MORE IMPORTANT - money management should be a mandatory subject in every high school, along with entrepreneurship. need not be for exam grades, but for knowledge base - each one 6 months during the final year.
Most govt. employees specially from punjab,rajasthan etc have two skill sets one for the office and other side business to make money. office does not require more than 2-3 hrs per day. and also provides contacts for side business.many are involved in finance[insurance ,loan,IT returnsetc],part time guest lectures,selling electronics ,cosmetics,sarees [ladies do the last two] ,computer work[programming ,data entry],general consultancy outside. it is my view ,you can get whatever you want in delhi sitting in office from a pin to a satellite- somebody will get it for you for a price.
six months savings fall back is absolutely necessary for all.
for bad bosses my approach is change jobs or change departments in same company frequently and expand skill sets. maintain excellent human relationships and keep looking for people you can work with in various fields.. Whenever I got into difficulties , I have run away to a different place successfully -everytime for better prospects and more money.finally I took golden handshake with a decent VRS and vanished for good. I have maintained peace of mind and excellent health on this account. I feel shrug off is a good option in comparison with confrontation. . you can always fight another day.
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There are few jobs that are very taxing..I know one CEO who used to trouble his team members late in the night..Puts undue pressure and never compliments or thank you whatever good you might have done..These are not professional CEO's but those risen within the promoter family
These guys feel that you can be at their beck and call any time in the day/night..Stay away from them
These guys feel that you can be at their beck and call any time in the day/night..Stay away from them
jaykay,
not sure if everyone can retire by 30s end. what i have suggested to mychildren, is at any time, they should have two separate skillsets, bothgenerating money, so that they are not dependent on only one source.
for single income family, one must have 6 months of money saved up - to pay thebills and live minimally. 6 months is a good enough time to find another job, ihope, though i have known folks who have lost their jobs in their 40s and neverfound another.
.
Dear Kunjuppu –
Financial portfolio’s are supposed to address these problems. What if someone loses their job in 40s & never get one. Many families have been ruined & in the recent 2008 crash, this painful lesson has come to the fore in USA/Europe etc..
First off – it is possible to retire in your late 20s or early 30s, it is very tough, but can be done. See, we need to get people to set the right goals. If the goal is to retire, then one will focus on it & make it happen – even if they don’t do it in their 30s, they will do by their 40s. But if the goal is to buy houses on mortgage, then retirement will not be in the radar. It is all about the focus.
Saving 6 months salary is very helpful, it is definitely not enough in today’s time when getting a job in the 40s, 50s are almost impossible, even in 30s, it is not easy.
In india, the craze for real estate is reaching the zenith & understandably because the prices are rising continuously without any pause, but it absolutely does not make any sense to buy houses in the USA/West among the Indians even after the 2008 housing crash!!.
See, for most of the people, nothing will happen, they can buy houses on mortgages & retire in their 50s/60s & get on with their life. So the younger generation follows them but times have changed. It is like accidents, it does not happen to most of them, but every one needs to wear seatbelts, have airbags in their cars etc..
After one retires in say 30s, I am not saying – don’t work. One should work all their lives & if you can , work in your 60s, & 70s also. It will keep one very healthy !!
Cheers,
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Dear Kunjuppu, Vgane - My point is we should NEVER allow anyone to have such hold on people's lives. And what a tragedy it is for this 30 yr old family in Bangalore !!. All other things can wait - houses, jewellery, vacations etc... till one is financially strong & be able to walk away from such workplaces !! Cheers,
Having saidall this, I am not against real estate/property investment!!
First oneshould retire as quickly as possible, gain the financial freedom, and thencontinue to work for someone & take full mortgage & then buy a house!!!.
Basicallydon't ever touch the savings - this is your insurance in life!!!!
if you cannotpay for the house due to any problem, just handover the house to the bank &walk away with your savings intact !! Cheers,
First oneshould retire as quickly as possible, gain the financial freedom, and thencontinue to work for someone & take full mortgage & then buy a house!!!.
Basicallydon't ever touch the savings - this is your insurance in life!!!!
if you cannotpay for the house due to any problem, just handover the house to the bank &walk away with your savings intact !! Cheers,
Dear JK ji
I like the way you persist with your view point.
it is possible to set a retirement goal of 35 years . many who joined Infosys early in 1990 or so got stock options whose value skyrocketed and some collected crores before 35 yrs
another set of people may be some double income families where take home can generate huge surpluses to put into retirement corpus
one issue faced by these people is what to do after retirement. they try to get involved in promoting social causes which find no acceptance either from their peers ,social and family circles . any attempt to get into business is difficult for them as they feel it is not worth doing anything and money as a motivater is not meaningful.
they become like socialites attending frivolous parties and have meaningless lives there after . some become mentally sick and their families break up. these are real scenarious,not something I have made up.try to think like a 35 yr old with no material needs due to abundant money.
for others With 20 lakh plus salries at beginning of life I have a suggestion. their parents can give them seed capital of 20 percent of value of flat required for buying a flat. they can raise another 20 percent thru savings in3or 4 years and get a flat on 60percent borrowing to be paid in five or six years, . they can also set a goal of retiring early say 35-40 years.
parents can give this money to children at beginning of their careers when they need it most instead of giving them after their own death.when it is not needed.many cases gold and silver is given in marriages . instead this is more useful. gold is only dead liquidity.similarlly less can be spent on wedding and money saved can be given to children.we can ease their lives
I like the way you persist with your view point.
it is possible to set a retirement goal of 35 years . many who joined Infosys early in 1990 or so got stock options whose value skyrocketed and some collected crores before 35 yrs
another set of people may be some double income families where take home can generate huge surpluses to put into retirement corpus
one issue faced by these people is what to do after retirement. they try to get involved in promoting social causes which find no acceptance either from their peers ,social and family circles . any attempt to get into business is difficult for them as they feel it is not worth doing anything and money as a motivater is not meaningful.
they become like socialites attending frivolous parties and have meaningless lives there after . some become mentally sick and their families break up. these are real scenarious,not something I have made up.try to think like a 35 yr old with no material needs due to abundant money.
for others With 20 lakh plus salries at beginning of life I have a suggestion. their parents can give them seed capital of 20 percent of value of flat required for buying a flat. they can raise another 20 percent thru savings in3or 4 years and get a flat on 60percent borrowing to be paid in five or six years, . they can also set a goal of retiring early say 35-40 years.
parents can give this money to children at beginning of their careers when they need it most instead of giving them after their own death.when it is not needed.many cases gold and silver is given in marriages . instead this is more useful. gold is only dead liquidity.similarlly less can be spent on wedding and money saved can be given to children.we can ease their lives
you vgane ji
many top bureaucrats join private co.s after retirement . some get it due to favours done by them to these companies during govt service. once these chaps join them ,they are treated like dirt by company promoters children who are bosses there. My relation a company secretary of a top group was telling me about how 25 yr olds were treating ex secretaries to govt who were putting up with it for monthly dole.
Krish – yep, you can say I am “super” persistent – LOL!!
See my views have evolved over time by watching the experiencesof so many people across many many countries in the world. Heroes in the pasthave become zeros & likewise zeros have become heroes – LOL !
Also, If you exclude India, then there is really NO caseto buy a house ever in life!!. Let me explain.
Lets say a person goes to US/West for a Job today. All hehas to do is earn well & invest every month religiously. I know 1 or 2 cases where a person bought ahouse in early 2000 & the house is selling below the buy price today – I amnot even looking at the mortgage interest paid so far.
So house as an investment loses its shine once a personleaves India & goes abroad. See, in the US, every place is well designed,well developed. So there is no such clamour like we have to buy in metros &only in this locality, etc…, so the prices there will rarely rise. Unless u arein Manhattan or some luxury neighborhood, house prices do not rise as much as inIndia.
And if you can share rent/rent cheap, live like aconservative TB, one can easily amass wealth quickly in a span of just 5 years!!
Also when one buys a house, they are emotionally rootedto that place, so they refuse opportunities in other cities or will not evenlook for such opportunities. So the opportunity costs are also high when youbuy a house & get rooted to a place. Of course some people move cities evenafter they buy flats/houses, but that is more of a minority!! Also the moneyyou are paying as mortgage is not building wealth & paying you monthlyincome as long as you occupy the place !!
Also what emotional attachment we can have in a foreignplace that we should buy a house & settle down forever !!
And in almost all the cases, kids migrate out to otherplaces once they reach their 20s, so the house serves no purpose after thatunless the parents want to retire in that place in old age !!
Of course the buy vs rent is a much debated topic in theUSA after 2008 crash, my advise is for everyone to look at both the pros &cons before plunging & buying a flat/house on huge mortgage !!!
Cheers,
See my views have evolved over time by watching the experiencesof so many people across many many countries in the world. Heroes in the pasthave become zeros & likewise zeros have become heroes – LOL !
Also, If you exclude India, then there is really NO caseto buy a house ever in life!!. Let me explain.
Lets say a person goes to US/West for a Job today. All hehas to do is earn well & invest every month religiously. I know 1 or 2 cases where a person bought ahouse in early 2000 & the house is selling below the buy price today – I amnot even looking at the mortgage interest paid so far.
So house as an investment loses its shine once a personleaves India & goes abroad. See, in the US, every place is well designed,well developed. So there is no such clamour like we have to buy in metros &only in this locality, etc…, so the prices there will rarely rise. Unless u arein Manhattan or some luxury neighborhood, house prices do not rise as much as inIndia.
And if you can share rent/rent cheap, live like aconservative TB, one can easily amass wealth quickly in a span of just 5 years!!
Also when one buys a house, they are emotionally rootedto that place, so they refuse opportunities in other cities or will not evenlook for such opportunities. So the opportunity costs are also high when youbuy a house & get rooted to a place. Of course some people move cities evenafter they buy flats/houses, but that is more of a minority!! Also the moneyyou are paying as mortgage is not building wealth & paying you monthlyincome as long as you occupy the place !!
Also what emotional attachment we can have in a foreignplace that we should buy a house & settle down forever !!
And in almost all the cases, kids migrate out to otherplaces once they reach their 20s, so the house serves no purpose after thatunless the parents want to retire in that place in old age !!
Of course the buy vs rent is a much debated topic in theUSA after 2008 crash, my advise is for everyone to look at both the pros &cons before plunging & buying a flat/house on huge mortgage !!!
Cheers,
jk ji
in these days of mobility ,I agree there is no correlation between where you buy a flat/house and where you stay during work life or retirement. as you say kids may prefer other towns and the person who has bought a house may change city of work.I do not know US economics. my logic is if I pay rent to someone, I am helping him to buy his flat/house. I would rather throw the rent money into my own flat using some borrowed capital at 10 percent.when kids are there ,it will be useful to somebody or other in the family sometime or other. I am a resident of delhi . a flat which I bought casually in chennai in 1998 became very useful after 6-7 years when my kids used it for 3-4 years when they did their college education in chennai. it is better to spread it over five or six metros. your 2nd or 3 generation will benefit and remember you for it. I have a philosophy minimum two flats instead of a single house . one to live in and one to live on. no post retirement money problems for good living
in these days of mobility ,I agree there is no correlation between where you buy a flat/house and where you stay during work life or retirement. as you say kids may prefer other towns and the person who has bought a house may change city of work.I do not know US economics. my logic is if I pay rent to someone, I am helping him to buy his flat/house. I would rather throw the rent money into my own flat using some borrowed capital at 10 percent.when kids are there ,it will be useful to somebody or other in the family sometime or other. I am a resident of delhi . a flat which I bought casually in chennai in 1998 became very useful after 6-7 years when my kids used it for 3-4 years when they did their college education in chennai. it is better to spread it over five or six metros. your 2nd or 3 generation will benefit and remember you for it. I have a philosophy minimum two flats instead of a single house . one to live in and one to live on. no post retirement money problems for good living
Krish –
Agree, this isthe traditional model how everyone did so far in life & has worked well inIndia for majority of the people. Thedependency for this is a stable job over 25/30 yrs & hopefully NO majordisasters.
lets flip thecase for argument sake. lets assume you have no flats today, but have $ 10 MilCash in hand invested in safe instruments giving you good monthly returns &a small portion of that goes to rental. And this wealth isincreasing/compounding every year.
Would youstill go & buy those flats – or say why bother – I might as well go toKanchi/Sringeri & spend a couple of years learning sanskrit/vedas etc.. orprobably go abroad & stay for a few months/years !!
PS: I amassuming that you have NO preference / specific place to stay in your finalyears – most people will need their children for support/so they have to go totheir places/or go to a old age home.
Cheers,
Agree, this isthe traditional model how everyone did so far in life & has worked well inIndia for majority of the people. Thedependency for this is a stable job over 25/30 yrs & hopefully NO majordisasters.
lets flip thecase for argument sake. lets assume you have no flats today, but have $ 10 MilCash in hand invested in safe instruments giving you good monthly returns &a small portion of that goes to rental. And this wealth isincreasing/compounding every year.
Would youstill go & buy those flats – or say why bother – I might as well go toKanchi/Sringeri & spend a couple of years learning sanskrit/vedas etc.. orprobably go abroad & stay for a few months/years !!
PS: I amassuming that you have NO preference / specific place to stay in your finalyears – most people will need their children for support/so they have to go totheir places/or go to a old age home.
Cheers,
See, in theancient times, people hoarded gold & travelled with it. In time, theyexchanged the gold with land because gold can be stolen & not safe to keep.In time, came banks, people started hoarding cash & earn what ever interestcame.
Today, banksare more safer than land/property - because these can get into disputes. if you have very expensive properties, you cannot even sell it. Most of thebuyers will give you money in black suitcases - LOL !!. It can take forever to find a White MoneyBuyer in today’s world !!
Also it is fareasier to just give the cash to your kids in the final years. some people selleverthing in India & go abroad to live with their children in the finalyears, because there is NO one to come & look after the properties !!.
Anyways, thepoint is you dont need to buy land/houses necessarily in today’s age &time. However one can always buy small pieces of real estate & make money out of it as a investment - that's why I have mentioned in my initial post you should have some in your portfolio !
Today, banksare more safer than land/property - because these can get into disputes. if you have very expensive properties, you cannot even sell it. Most of thebuyers will give you money in black suitcases - LOL !!. It can take forever to find a White MoneyBuyer in today’s world !!
Also it is fareasier to just give the cash to your kids in the final years. some people selleverthing in India & go abroad to live with their children in the finalyears, because there is NO one to come & look after the properties !!.
Anyways, thepoint is you dont need to buy land/houses necessarily in today’s age &time. However one can always buy small pieces of real estate & make money out of it as a investment - that's why I have mentioned in my initial post you should have some in your portfolio !
jk ji
irrespective of the money I have I would always see that it is thrown back into housing asset instead of throwing it into rentals . I am assuming that there will always be a demand for housing . Only exception maybe some godforsaken [ godly - if it is kancheepuram] place where I would never invest.. only I will add one more name in addition to mine in owners name so that the are inheritors.
PS- I have no intention of to go to anybodies place for my final years or go to an old age home. my flat is already an old age home for all practical purposes and I take care of myself with couple of servants I have-these have been with me for the past 10 years. I would hate to part with them . they are also family as far I am concerned
Jk ji
you see problems every where. what makes you think banks are safe. I have a locker in another town . the branch manager has been telling me to periodically open and see if the contents are safe. gold can be stolen,lockers are not safe ,money is black money and cannot be exchanged easily incase of property sale according to you. my philosophy is first give away 75percent of what you have to everyone you want to give -spouse,kids ,near relations. balance live it up and let servants or anyone else looking after you take it. definitely not leave a will. do you like this
S
SANDHYAV
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sariyana potti!
i just googled how to lease and the tips are scary: U give a hold which is part and the buyer will decide at the end of the tenure, not my cuppa
i just googled how to lease and the tips are scary: U give a hold which is part and the buyer will decide at the end of the tenure, not my cuppa
Krish – you arereally innovative in your thinking – LOL !!. I liked the idea of converting theflat into a old age home – LOL !!! I mean retire where one is living today –why bother to go somewhere else !!
Agree, one isbetter of giving during the course of their lives rather than leave a will –keep the balance & live well into the 80s, 90s etc... !
I candefinitely say, you are way ahead of the rest of the world !!
On a sidenote, yes, I am extremely good in seeing the problems in advance, many of myfriends come to me just for that – LOL !!
Cheers,
tbs
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hi jk
i bought a land before my marriage in chennai in 80's...it was some thousand rupees that time....now its more than crore rupees...
same way i bought flat in delhi in some lakhs in 90's....due to metro and other facilities..its more than crores too....so reality
has some benefits....u know...i bought a home in USA last ten years back...here its underwater....less than my puchase value...
so india is good place for real estate.....enough govt pension/bank cd's give a peace of mind....for regular cash flow...
so we keep many portfolios....many ppl lost in stock markets....stock markets risk game..not for everyone....we cant predict the
money for our children....possible try to give good education.....education is always a nice investment....
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jk ji
it is like this
there is nothing innovative when I say I wll be status quo ist and prefer to live in my own home upto the end. most I am sure would like live in their own home unless it is not financially or otherwise viable.. only add manpower resources so that we are properly taken care off . I also have backups for servants going on holidays in terms of alternates for emergency . another concept is multi utility servants and repairmen. my car driver does my shopping for provisions and handles my bank jobs ,take me to doctors ,buys my medicines and submits and realises my medical bills.I trust him totally I have an electrician on call who doubles as odd jobs man like climbing on roofs to fix tanks ,water supply, move luggage ,almirahs around the house. It is his responsibility to see all electrical and sanitory fittings are in place and working. he has to arrange labour for everything and he is compensated appropriately. what matters is trust and in my experience , poor people do not cheat if you trust them totally. I only use internet and do what I genuinely want to do.I settle everything online .
on the concept of giving away ,always give anything much before anyone asks for it and atleast 10-15 percent more than he expects Always take pleasantly what you want with minimum hurt to anyone
I gave away 20 percent seed money for buying a flat to my child when he thought of buying a flat within a year of working. I told him he take it now instead of end of my life when it would not be meaningful.I practice mostly what I preach. He bought a flat with just 30K in his pocket egged on by me and probably he could not have raised the money for 3 to 4 years. I do not know if it is a good or bad decision . time will show.
jk ji- let us see . dum hai abhi .I do not envisage /foresee any problem as such . I take a flight to live a few days with my children when I feel like it or if they want me desperately. why burden them . more than that I value my freedom to do what and when I want .
tbs ji very sensible post.
like last line - try to give good education .... edn. is always nice investment-
brahmins give high priority to education.hence when they think of working indian community in uS they think of tam/telugu brahmins brain power ,vegetarianism and their colour. - who constitute a fair segment in adddition to banias/gujus in business
real estate appears to be unattractive after the mortgage crisis unlike india. most in this forum have reported huge losses.it appears you lose in a big way when there are losses.
stocks are not for the faint hearted . you have to have sustained interest to make money.
you are lucky with real estate in delhi with flat in delhi with metro coming up . have you converted from leasehold to free hold. there are camps in all localities. do you have a DDA flat by any chance. now is the time for it
My father used to say, whether it's Chicago or Chennai, you'll only be able to see me in a freezer box, or as a body since you do not live with me. Life is short, life with parents is yet shorter.
If (each family is different) your equation with your children is terrific, you ought to be with them as far as possible so *they* do not have regrets of not spending time with father later in life. The question of 'burden' is irrelevant.
ash wisdom lies in living at optimal distance. if you go very near sun you get burnt
if you go far away it is cold . at optimal distance it is optimally warm
so are relationships.
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