Dear Silverfox,
Thank you for raising a pertinent question.
You said, “The way I understand it that you take several births before you become a human.” By this statement if you were to even remotely suggest that a human birth is a sort of evolution then I have to say that such contention is not correct. The theory of evolution is based on the concept of ‘struggle for existence and survival of the fittest’. What determines in this concept is the environment. The environment becomes a sort of filter for the survival of the species. What evolves is not an individual but a group (species) for example they say that the human race evolved from the monkey race.
In contrast the concept of reincarnation is based not on the compulsions of environment but on the basis of one’s own karma. Again it is the reincarnation of an INDIVIDUAL not a group.
The evolution theory suggests that there is a constant change of a group of living organism to something ‘better’ in terms of survival for example they say that in the beginning there was the simple amoeba that in course of millions of years transformed into a complex human.
The theory ‘Karma and Reincarnation’ on the other hand talks of the Aathma or the Self that remains changeless no matter how times have changed and how the environment got altered. Your own self is Anaadhi or beginningless! Sri Krishna Bhagavan says in Bhagavat Gita (2:20) “Na jaayathe mriyathe vaa kadhaachinnaayam bhoothvaa bhavithaa vaa na bhooyaha| Ajo nithyaha saasvathoyam puraano na hanyathe hanyamaane sareere||” meaning “This Self is never born; It never dies either. Coming into being and ceasing to be does not take place in it. (I.e. this Self is not a phenomenal existence that has birth, life and death). Unborn, eternal, everlasting this ancient One is not slain when the body is slain.”
We all perform karmas that are good and bad and they yield fruits of karma however some of the fruits mature quickly while some take time to mature yielding to other kharmaphalas to materialize. Thus there are three types of karmas: a) Sanchitha Karma, b) Praarabhda karma and c) Aagami Karma. Sanchitha karma is the fruit of many karmas that are in store in seed form that are yet to mature. Sanchi literally means a bag. This means you could enjoy it in your future births and it could the next birth or it could be some ten or hundred births later.
Praarabdha karma refers to those karmas that have matured causing this current birth to you. Aagami karma refers to the karmas that you are performing in this birth and they would mature in your future births. The commonality between Sanchitha Karma and Aagami karma is that the fruits mature in future births. The difference is that Sanchitha karma refers to karmas of past births while the Agami karma refers to the karmas of current birth.
So from the above it is easy to infer that a person could have been human, animal, plant and so on innumerable number of times in other words a man might be reborn as an animal by the sheer force of his karma. Let’s consider an example.
A fellow dropped atom bombs on Hiroshima and Nakasaki depriving so many souls of their bodies. If you are God you might ask him to restore what he deprived others of their bodies. Now we all know that the body is made of food (Annamaya Kosa). So this fellow has to be born as a corn plant or rice plant millions of times to perform the restitution which is feeding the body. From this the inference would be that his Sanchitha Karma contains innumerable seeds of Thaamasic bodies such as plants and perhaps a few good seeds that would bring him bodies such as that of an animal or even a human after he had exhausted having been born as plants.
I hope you have understood the fact that a person does not exhaust all karmas of past lives in one life but in many lives as the proportional weight of each of past karmas would dictate. Also in line of this argument the future life/lives would not only depend on what you do in this life but also what you did in the past which karmas you have not exhausted by enjoying or suffering.
Also it is wrong to infer that an animal or plant or even an inert thing such as a rock could not get release. You must have heard of ‘Ahalya Saabavimochanam’. Ahalya remained a rock by a hasty curse of her husband who doubted her chastity. Actually Ahalya was also a Gnani and she was enjoying the Bliss of Brahman even while remaining a rock. The rock as a conditioning got removed by the touch of Sri Rama.
Bhagavan Ramana clearly says in his conversation with Sri Devaraja Mudaliar, "It is not true that birth as a man is necessarily the highest, and that one must attain realisation only from being a man. Even an animal can attain Self-realisation.” Actually Bhagavan Ramana himself gave moksham to not only humans but also animals such as a cow, a dog and a crow. Their samaadhis are there in Ramanasramam!
With Narayana Smrithi,
Anbu
Thank you for raising a pertinent question.
You said, “The way I understand it that you take several births before you become a human.” By this statement if you were to even remotely suggest that a human birth is a sort of evolution then I have to say that such contention is not correct. The theory of evolution is based on the concept of ‘struggle for existence and survival of the fittest’. What determines in this concept is the environment. The environment becomes a sort of filter for the survival of the species. What evolves is not an individual but a group (species) for example they say that the human race evolved from the monkey race.
In contrast the concept of reincarnation is based not on the compulsions of environment but on the basis of one’s own karma. Again it is the reincarnation of an INDIVIDUAL not a group.
The evolution theory suggests that there is a constant change of a group of living organism to something ‘better’ in terms of survival for example they say that in the beginning there was the simple amoeba that in course of millions of years transformed into a complex human.
The theory ‘Karma and Reincarnation’ on the other hand talks of the Aathma or the Self that remains changeless no matter how times have changed and how the environment got altered. Your own self is Anaadhi or beginningless! Sri Krishna Bhagavan says in Bhagavat Gita (2:20) “Na jaayathe mriyathe vaa kadhaachinnaayam bhoothvaa bhavithaa vaa na bhooyaha| Ajo nithyaha saasvathoyam puraano na hanyathe hanyamaane sareere||” meaning “This Self is never born; It never dies either. Coming into being and ceasing to be does not take place in it. (I.e. this Self is not a phenomenal existence that has birth, life and death). Unborn, eternal, everlasting this ancient One is not slain when the body is slain.”
We all perform karmas that are good and bad and they yield fruits of karma however some of the fruits mature quickly while some take time to mature yielding to other kharmaphalas to materialize. Thus there are three types of karmas: a) Sanchitha Karma, b) Praarabhda karma and c) Aagami Karma. Sanchitha karma is the fruit of many karmas that are in store in seed form that are yet to mature. Sanchi literally means a bag. This means you could enjoy it in your future births and it could the next birth or it could be some ten or hundred births later.
Praarabdha karma refers to those karmas that have matured causing this current birth to you. Aagami karma refers to the karmas that you are performing in this birth and they would mature in your future births. The commonality between Sanchitha Karma and Aagami karma is that the fruits mature in future births. The difference is that Sanchitha karma refers to karmas of past births while the Agami karma refers to the karmas of current birth.
So from the above it is easy to infer that a person could have been human, animal, plant and so on innumerable number of times in other words a man might be reborn as an animal by the sheer force of his karma. Let’s consider an example.
A fellow dropped atom bombs on Hiroshima and Nakasaki depriving so many souls of their bodies. If you are God you might ask him to restore what he deprived others of their bodies. Now we all know that the body is made of food (Annamaya Kosa). So this fellow has to be born as a corn plant or rice plant millions of times to perform the restitution which is feeding the body. From this the inference would be that his Sanchitha Karma contains innumerable seeds of Thaamasic bodies such as plants and perhaps a few good seeds that would bring him bodies such as that of an animal or even a human after he had exhausted having been born as plants.
I hope you have understood the fact that a person does not exhaust all karmas of past lives in one life but in many lives as the proportional weight of each of past karmas would dictate. Also in line of this argument the future life/lives would not only depend on what you do in this life but also what you did in the past which karmas you have not exhausted by enjoying or suffering.
Also it is wrong to infer that an animal or plant or even an inert thing such as a rock could not get release. You must have heard of ‘Ahalya Saabavimochanam’. Ahalya remained a rock by a hasty curse of her husband who doubted her chastity. Actually Ahalya was also a Gnani and she was enjoying the Bliss of Brahman even while remaining a rock. The rock as a conditioning got removed by the touch of Sri Rama.
Bhagavan Ramana clearly says in his conversation with Sri Devaraja Mudaliar, "It is not true that birth as a man is necessarily the highest, and that one must attain realisation only from being a man. Even an animal can attain Self-realisation.” Actually Bhagavan Ramana himself gave moksham to not only humans but also animals such as a cow, a dog and a crow. Their samaadhis are there in Ramanasramam!
With Narayana Smrithi,
Anbu
is a guess i am making based on this article.
ear SSjiand S007Bji, sure I will post more details about God and his creation. This material available in all our scriptures. Only the socalled intellectuals and highly respectes Discoursers explaind to their intel brilliancy, which we all accepted all this days, but enyone started a search in God Realization will able to unederstand the TRUE meaning of the scriptures. For nearly 33 years my search of GURU and I was just upset by the happened to in every Ashrames. In the year 2002 I have landed in a Path called SURTH SHBAD YOGA and under stood what I want and Identfy my GURU. From then my search starts with my No Rebirth theory and reading of all type of Religious books shown the on thing that GOD with in you.The real search should be based on the GOD relaization and not ask any thing from him, but for worldly and sensual pleasures we all going to worshiping places and offer something and put a list of requirements before him, and says this Bakthi or prayer,The GOD Created the world from Sound,this well explaind in BiBle,Quran,and All our Scriptures.Vedaths were sound curent and which is inthe Sky and Our Great Reshies found those sounds and given us as Vedas.So to understand God the way as Meditation and listin verious Sounds in meditation. The sounds will take the athma to the Higher regions and merge with GOD.After that no birth and Death cycle. S.R.K.
